Things were going well then I had a bad experience.

Swandattur

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I had noticed even before going in a Peat direction with my diet that eggs didn't seem to do what you expect out of protein. I think I do much better with one egg than two. Maybe I just never had enough sugars with it. Unfortunately, very much dairy seems to bother me. Salted butter seems okay (not cultured), and it seems as if half and half or cream in coffee is fine. Maybe coffee directly counteracts the problem.
Does Peat think any sort of commercial orange juice is okay now? Or is it all messed up with weirdly processed pulp? I was eating fresh oranges since they were in season here in Florida, but not now. Guess I might have to break down and have inferior California oranges! :) :)
I think that I have had some sort of hormone problem since I was about four years old, because that is when I developed shyness and fearfulness which seem to be very much linked with Seratonin and endotoxin. (I wonder if LB might have those problems.) Maybe that's reaching way too far, but it's interesting to think about.
 
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LoveBlood

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Rayser said:
My guess is that it takes a while to stop this stress reaction. Especially since many processes seem to be reverted.

What do you mean by many processes seem to be reverted?
 

Rayser

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j. - I just re-read the page on the link you posted for "antibiotics against panic-attacks".
I can't seem to find anything on antibiotics there.
Am I going blind?

What I did find interesting is the list of symptoms for panic attacks:

Various symptoms occur during a panic attack:

Palpitations or a thumping heart.
Sweating and trembling.
Hot flushes or chills.
Feeling short of breath, sometimes with choking sensations.
Chest pains.
Feeling sick (nauseous).
Feeling dizzy, or faint.
Fear of dying or going crazy.
Numbness, or pins and needles.
Feelings of unreality, or being detached from yourself.
over-breathing in a shallow manner
or hyperventilating.

If you over-breathe you 'blow out' too much carbon dioxide which changes the acidity in the blood. This can then cause more symptoms such as confusion and cramps, and make palpitations, dizziness, and pins and needles worse. This can make the attack seem even more frightening, and make you over-breathe even more, and so on. A panic attack usually lasts 5-10 minutes, but sometimes they come in 'waves' for up to 2 hours.

Compare these to hypoglycemia:

Signs and symptoms of hypoglycemia:

Shakiness, anxiety, nervousness
Palpitations, tachycardia
Sweating, feeling of warmth
Pallor, coldness, clamminess
Dilated pupils (mydriasis)
Feeling of numbness "pins and needles" (paresthesia)
Hunger, borborygmus
Nausea, vomiting, abdominal discomfort
Headache
Abnormal mentation, impaired judgment
Nonspecific dysphoria, moodiness, depression, crying, exaggerated concerns
Negativism, irritability, belligerence, combativeness, rage
Personality change, emotional lability
Fatigue, weakness, apathy, lethargy, daydreaming, sleep
Confusion, amnesia, lightheadedness or dizziness, delirium
Staring, "glassy" look, blurred vision, double vision
Flashes of light in the field of vision
Automatic behavior, also known as automatism
Difficulty speaking, slurred speech
Ataxia, incoordination, sometimes mistaken for "drunkenness"
Focal or general motor deficit, paralysis, hemiparesis
Paresthesia, headache
Stupor, coma, abnormal breathing
Generalized or focal seizures
 

Rayser

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LoveBlood said:
Rayser said:
My guess is that it takes a while to stop this stress reaction. Especially since many processes seem to be reverted.

What do you mean by many processes seem to be reverted?

Ray Peat said:
Thyroid is the basic regulator of blood glucose, and it causes it to be fully oxidized for energy, so that it produces ATP efficiently, on relatively few calories. If blood glucose falls, because it's being used very quickly, the body responds with stress hormones, including glucagon, adrenalin, and cortisol. They cause fat and protein to be burned for energy, while in hypothyroidism, glucose can still be used inefficiently for glycolysis, producing lactic acid, displacing bicarbonate and carbon dioxide. This causes mineral imbalances, with effects including cramps and nerve-muscle tension, which produce heat and waste energy."

Ray Peat said:
In the excessively sensitive condition produced by hypoglycemia, several things happen that contribute to the maladaptive exaggerated inflammatory response.

Adrenaline increases in hypoglycemia, and, if the adrenaline fails to convert glycogen into glucose, it will provide an alternative fuel by liberating free fatty acids from fat cells.

If the liberated fatty acids are unsaturated, they will cause serotonin to be secreted, and both serotonin and the unsaturated fatty acids will suppress mitochondrial respiration, exacerbating the hypoglycemia. They will stimulate the release of cytokines, activating a variety of immunological and inflammatory processes, and they will cause blood vessels to become leaky, creating edema and starting the first stages of fibrosis. Both adrenaline and serotonin will stimulate the release of cortisol, which mobilizes amino acids from tissues such as the large skeletal muscles. Those muscles contain a large amount of cysteine and tryptophan, which, among other effects, suppress the thyroid. The increased tryptophan, especially in the presence of free fatty acids, is likely to be converted into additional serotonin, since fatty acids release tryptophan from albumin, increasing its entry into the brain. Free fatty acids and increased serotonin reduce metabolic efficiency (leading to insulin resistance, for example) and promote an inflammatory state.

Fats in the blood-stream have easy access to the brain, and the unsaturated free fatty acids produce brain edema (Chan, et al., 1983, 1988). When brain edema is caused by vascular leakage, proteins that are normally excluded can enter. The stimulated, excited and fatigued brain exchanges glutamine for tryptophan, accelerating its uptake from the blood.
 

Swandattur

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I'll have to go over this again after dinner, but interesting concerning panic attacks. Just got through helping with book store inventory. Brain needs fuel! :) ;)
L.B., hope you feel better. I'll keep checking back to see if I can help in any way. I know panic attacks are no picnic.
 

asajulian

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It could be hyponatremia from drinking too many fluids. I've had similar symptoms many times. Try eating chocolate or saltines. I apologize if this was mentioned already, I didn't read all nine pages of posts.
 

Rayser

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As was said before, cocoa can be dangerous because ist lowers blood sugar.
I suppose he would have mentioned drinking many litres of water.

Ray Peat:
Low sodium content in the body fluids also predisposed to seizures, so that someone with hyponatremia (low blood sodium) would be more susceptible to induction of a seizure by excessive water intake.

Hypothyroid people tend to lose sodium easily, and unopposed estrogen increases water retention, without an equivalent sodium retention, so low thyroid, high estrogen people have two of the conditions (edema and hyponatremia) known to predispose to seizures. Another outstanding feature of seizures of various sorts is that they are most likely to occur at night, especially in the early pre-dawn hours. Low blood sugar and high adrenalin predominate during those hours. Hypoglycemia, in itself, like oxygen deprivation, is enough to cause convulsions.
 

asajulian

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Rayser said:
As was said before, cocoa can be dangerous because ist lowers blood sugar.
I suppose he would have mentioned drinking many litres of water.

I haven't noticed any negative effects from chocolate, even hershey's. It has enough sugar in it for the lowering blood sugar effect not to be a big deal.
 

Rayser

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Nobody says chocolate is not good for you. Ray Peat has mentioned it many times as being beneficial.

"In this context, Jeanne Calment's life-long, daily consumption of chocolate comes to mind: As she approaches her 121st birthday, she is still eating chocolate, though she has stopped smoking and drinking wine. The saturated fats in chocolate have been found to block the toxicity of oils rich in linoleic acid, and its odd proteins seem to have an anabolic action." RP


"Drinking coffee seems to be very protective against developing diabetes. Its niacin and magnesium are clearly important, but it is also a rich source of antioxidants, and it helps to maintain normal thyroid and progesterone production. Chocolate is probably protective too, and it is a good source of magnesium and antioxidants." RP


I just don't think in this particular situation it's the best idea and the one thing missing.

If you've had "hyponatremia" you are probably very hypothyroid and/or have problems with kidney and heart. Have you asked Ray Peat for advise?
 

jyb

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Rayser said:
Nobody says chocolate is not good for you. Ray Peat has mentioned it many times as being beneficial.

"In this context, Jeanne Calment's life-long, daily consumption of chocolate comes to mind: As she approaches her 121st birthday, she is still eating chocolate, though she has stopped smoking and drinking wine. The saturated fats in chocolate have been found to block the toxicity of oils rich in linoleic acid, and its odd proteins seem to have an anabolic action." RP


"Drinking coffee seems to be very protective against developing diabetes. Its niacin and magnesium are clearly important, but it is also a rich source of antioxidants, and it helps to maintain normal thyroid and progesterone production. Chocolate is probably protective too, and it is a good source of magnesium and antioxidants." RP


I just don't think in this particular situation it's the best idea and the one thing missing.

If you've had "hyponatremia" you are probably very hypothyroid and/or have problems with kidney and heart. Have you asked Ray Peat for advise?

I notice that RP thinks of niacin and magnesium in the chocolate, but doesn't mention copper, whereas some forum users seem to use it as a source of copper on days not eating meat/shellfish. At least, this is the case for me: I don't really need niacin or magnesium because I have it from other sources, its more about getting a minimum of copper on some days.
 

Rayser

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If you eat veal liver and oysters once a week you should have enough copper.
But chocolate is a good source, too.
 

jyb

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Rayser said:
If you eat veal liver and oysters once a week you should have enough copper.
But chocolate is a good source, too.

I didn't know it could be stored for several days. I should learn more about physiology... all I know is that the storage ability is affected when hypothyroid, and it applies to other nutrients like magnesium.
 

Rayser

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jyb said:
Rayser said:
If you eat veal liver and oysters once a week you should have enough copper.
But chocolate is a good source, too.

I didn't know it could be stored for several days. I should learn more about physiology... all I know is that the storage ability is affected when hypothyroid, and it applies to other nutrients like magnesium.

Yes, to magnesium more than to anything else. During stress it's burned like gasoline.
And yes about the storage ability of zinc and copper when you're hypothyroid. But once a week is still enough. Too much copper and too much zinc are dangerous, too. Though it's not likely to get there by eating oysters ... Liver on the hand can be a problem if eaten more than twice a week.
 

Swandattur

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Just to comment, I got a container of chicken livers and made kind of a braunschweiger with it. So then I just had to eat it all, which I did over about three days. On the third day or so I was feeling pretty slowed down and depressed. So, I guess that was a mistake!
If I get any more chicken livers I'll give each of my seven cats some chicken liver and the dog some, and freeze the rest for whoever. So then I won't be eating too much.
 

Rayser

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;-) That's right, take it out on the pets!
I wouldn't recommend chicken liver. Every time I ate those in the past (I like the taste) I noticed hair loss and felt tired and a little pessimistic.
The opposite from how I feel after veal liver (with enough coconut oil or butter and Coca-Cola or coffee). I eat about 150g once a week.
 

Swandattur

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That's interesting. Maybe I'll try the veal liver. The cats are safe. They'll turn up their noses at lots of things. Maybe there's a reason. The dog is somewhat particular, too, but has different food preferences. The cats don't like chicken, but the dog loves it, and the cats go for beef somewhat, but the dog doesn't care for it. I wonder if that means anything?
 

4peatssake

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Swandattur said:
Could be cats are smarter, and they may read Ray Peat.

Is this your cat?

tumblr_lyg013TUdr1ro98uuo1_500.jpg
 

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