1. **NEW Mini Body Light** MBL1 - Orange & Red Light Therapy Mini Body Light
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Cholesterol Powder
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Pau D'arco Bark
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Metabasoap - Handcrafted Soap
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Cocoa Butter - Organic & Fair Trade Certified
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  6. Charcoal Soap - For Deep Cleansing
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  7. Orange & Red Light Therapy Device - LGS1
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice
  8. Cascara Sagrada Powder From Farmalabor In Italy
    CLICK HERE!
    Dismiss Notice

Thiamine Reduces Both Lactate And Ammonia

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. BobbyDukes

    BobbyDukes Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Apologies for de-railing the thread further, but is this why refined sugar is so bad? I get insane temperature rises when I eliminate fat, and ramp up refined sugar (I don't get this effect effect with fruit or starches). I can believe that sugar is a potent metabolism stimulator, but it has no nutrition at all. So it's like putting your foot down on the gas pedal, with no juice to back it up. Surely it's taxing your resources? It's probably going to give you health problems somewhere down the line? A few tablesoons of Sugar + a few tablesoons of extra strong, freshly ground coffee = weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :lol:
     
  2. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    9,655
    Gender:
    Female
    I disagree about sugar being devoid of nutrition - carb calories are one of the most important nutrients, and lots of people have got into health difficulties by carbohydrate and/or calorie deficiency. But I think you are right that there could be other deficiency problems if someone relies heavily on refined sugar without also getting vitamins and minerals from other sources. But if you do include plenty of nutrient-dense foods, it can probably balance out quite a few tablespoons of sucrose. For instance, the coffee adds some micronutrients, including magnesium. Liver, fruit, milk, eggs, shell fish, kale broth add in generous amounts of some vitamins and minerals. Peat suggests fruit and milk as optimal sources of sugar, with sucrose as a filler when adequate good quality fruit is not available.
    I think white rice does not contribute much more than carb calories either, so I don't think switching out some rice for sugar is likely to worsen nutrient balance.
    Some people here use cronometer to check that they are likely to be covering their micronutrient needs.
    I think depletion of soils is a relevant factor, because fruit and veges can't contain minerals that are not available in the soil they are grown in. So maybe high brix fruit/juice and vege broth gives you more leeway to add extra sugar.
     
  3. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    9,655
    Gender:
    Female
    Kasra put this quote in another thread:
    "Refined granulated sugar is extremely pure, but it lacks all of the essential nutrients, so it should be considered as a temporary therapeutic material, or as an occasional substitute when good fruit isn't available, or when available honey is allergenic." - RP
     
  4. calliandra

    calliandra Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2015
    Messages:
    15
    Same thing here-- I had dark yellow urine after my first dose of alliathiamine, and it had a strong odor. I wondered at the time if the allithiamine had driven some B2 out of my tissues. It hasn't happened since that I've noticed.
     
  5. Peata

    Peata Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,400
    Gender:
    Female
    I was taking a lot of B1 thiamin Fall of 2013 and that's the last time I really did well on Peat way. not that thiamin was THE answer by any means because I still had estrogen dominance issues then, especially 2nd half cycle, but it could have contributed to some better results in other areas. Such as clearer thinking, energy, motivation, and i wasn't gaining like crazy then either.

    Anyway, i started back with 500 mg. 3 x day yesterday.
     
  6. BobbyDukes

    BobbyDukes Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    345
    Sugar is great because it also isn't a liquid (a huge plus, if you are already a coffee, milk and juice drinker, like me), and takes up minimal room in the stomach.

    I've seen Peat quotes where he definitely doesn't recommend refined sugar and saying it is a last gasp option. But then I see him quoted as saying it's fine. I have read his article on sugar. I just don't have 100% clarification on the refined sugar thing. Recently, I heard a radio interview where he cited an experiement which apparantly cured diabetes. It involved using lots of sugar. So maybe sugar in vast quantities is healthy to those who need it? So I guess I am just wondering whether there are any genuine long term implications to using large amounts of refined sugar? Because what really works for me is going hard on refined sugar. Like, cranking it up. But I always wonder whether I feel that good because of a drug type of effect (you know, the way kids get high on sugar and they 'apparantly' show behavioural problems - stereotype example, I know). Sugar seems to ramp up everything for me. But if there's one I have learnt in life, it's that nothing is free. If something makes you feel incredible, there's usually a hitch somewhere down the line. Hence my preference to always chose fruit over sugar.
     
  7. SQu

    SQu Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,198
    Cautiously I'd say that one way to tell is whether it lets you down later. Like the wellbeing I get from starch, followed by poor sleep, dullness, lethargy, etc. I'm trying to distinguish between genuine well being and a few fakes, eg starch. I used to think caffeine was one of them, but it's holding up well with enough accompanying nutrition. I suppose alcohol would be another seeing as mostly one feels worse for it afterwards.
     
  8. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    9,655
    Gender:
    Female
    I think Peat often uses the word 'sugar' in the general sense that includes all its forms - sugar in fruit, milk, honey, etc, as well as sometimes using it to refer to refined sucrose. The context helps distinguish whether he means refined sugar as opposed to fruit, milk etc, or sugar in eg orange juice as opposed to starch ffrom rice or fat from meat, butter etc.

    The guy who recovered from wasting diabetes by adding 8oz sucrose/day added it to his regular diet that already included meat and vegetables etc - my guess is he was getting lots of protein, minerals and vitamins from the rest of his diet so he had some to spare to balance the sucrose. Since it was quite a while ago, the soil quality and nutrient density of vegetables may have been quite a bit higher than most veges are now, and PUFA consumption was likely quite a bit lower than is common now too. I don't think that means that everybody now can just add 8 oz sugar to their current diet and get no problems - depends on the rest of the context.

    I think it makes sense to choose fruit over refined sugar if/when you can get it in sufficient quantities without going over your liquid tolerance etc. But when that's difficult, some refined sugar is better than going short of carbs/calories, and if you use a lot of it, you just have to put more attention on getting plenty all the other nutrients too. Cronometer can help check this. If it feels good, that's probably a good sign. Peat has said a craving for sugar usually indicates a need for sugar. If/when it doesn't taste or feel good, then back off. I think the hitch can arise if you eat lots of refined sugar and don't get appropriate amounts of all the protein, minerals and vitamins you need along with it, eventually resulting in deficiency problems. I'm using various supplements because I'm not confident that I get it all from food at the moment.

    I hear regular reference to kids on 'sugar high's. On my boys I don't think I can distinguish it from a starch high from potatoes or pasta. It looks to me like huge amount of physical energy that they just have to use RIGHT NOW. So if the behaviour expected of them at the time is calm and still, that could be a mismatch. But in terms of health, it's probably a good thing - having lots of physical energy is a pretty good sign. I usually notice the worst upsets and behaviour issues just before dinner when they are hungry. Once they've got a couple of mouthfuls of food in they usually become more cheerful and cooperative.
     
  9. Gl;itch.e

    Gl;itch.e Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2014
    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Got some more B1 so tried 500mg spread across the day. Same result with waking up drenched in sweat that night. I think that for whatever reason I am better off with lower doses as I get no problems with 100mg in the morning and 100mg at night.
     
  10. Katty

    Katty Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    341
    If B1 is supposed to reduce ammonia, why did taking B1 for several months make me smell terrible? I was taking around 100mg. I didn't confirm with any blood or urine tests that my ammonia was high, but it made me stink to high heaven and makes me think it was/is causing high ammonia. Even after going off it I still smell sometimes (certain dairy products make the odor worse). I never experienced chronic body odor like this until starting B1.
    I originally started taking the benfotiamine form, and then switched to regular B1. Unfortunately I can't remember if the smell started with the benfo or only when I switched to regular B1.

    Any ideas what might be going on? Would B1 raise ammonia in me for some reason? Maybe it threw all of my other B vitamins out of whack?
     
  11. Gl;itch.e

    Gl;itch.e Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2014
    Messages:
    682
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Perhaps if you were some how liberating the ammonia but unable to detoxify/expel it through liver/kidneys/urine might it perhaps then have to go via sweat and the skin? Just a thought.
     
  12. Katty

    Katty Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    341
    I must have a heckuva lot of ammonia in my system... or my system keeps making it, because it's been about 8 months of stinkiness.

    Any idea what I could do to help expel it through urine instead of sweat?
     
  13. Sheila

    Sheila Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Messages:
    360
    Gender:
    Female
    Dear Katty
    It has been my experience, and has been alluded to earlier I think by Moss, that thiamine's tendency to cause increased body odour can be mitigated with a lower dose b complex on board too. I suspect, given that I and others only get body odour sometimes, that it is the context (body) into which thiamine goes, rather than the thiamine's stinky potential, because if it were entirely thiamine, then it should happen all the time. I think Gl;itch's explanation is therefore correct. I think it might be similar to some people getting coffee smells from their urine when - for some reason- that isn't processed as well as usual. Maybe later in the day, less energy etc.
    On a dosing point, I and others find it really tricky to get much about 300mg in divided doses, so often other things have to be in place before 'pushing' the system further.
    Sheila
     
  14. SQu

    SQu Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,198
    I get that with coffee and it is when for some reason I'm not tolerating it well so I would agree it may tell you something about your body's ability to use b1.
     
  15. Katty

    Katty Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Messages:
    341
    Thanks Sheila and sueq for the responses. Yes, I assume it's not that b1 is bad, but my body is not processing it correctly. I do suspect that maybe I threw he other b vitamins out of whack because I've been off the b1 for several months and still have some issues. Guess I could try out a b complex to see if that helps. Or maybe I'll start with some Bs one at a time. Methyl-b12, then methyl folate, etc. I tried some p5p after quitting the B1- I thought maybe it was contributing to the smell, but I'm not certain.
     
  16. Such_Saturation

    Such_Saturation Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7,364
    Thiamine deficiency makes you hold on to magnesium, so I'd be wary of taking thiamine by itself for fasciculations.
     
  17. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2015
    Messages:
    2,458
    I experimented with 300 mg thiamin hydrochloride this morning and got some unexpected strong reactions. First thing I noticed was that my gut was moving more vigorous than usual. Each time I eat something the gut gets kind of indecisive... maybe I get diarrhea? maybe not? ... Went to Chinese massage and felt slightly nauseous during massage. Then my masseuse did something she has never done before: She gave my belly and kidneys a thorough detox massage. Now - 14 hours after I swallowed the B1 - I can feel that my kidneys work hard, and the maybe diarrhea/maybe not thing is still at work.

    I wonder what is going on. Do I detox the thiamin? Or did the thiamin trigger that my body tries to get rid of something that does not belong there?

    I also wonder if I should help a bit. Charcoal or a laxative?

    Any thoughts?
     
  18. Peata

    Peata Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Messages:
    3,400
    Gender:
    Female
    I wasn't getting much effect from B1 so I switched back to the Spring Valley brand that gave me results when I started. Hoping that along with the caffeine, I'll be able to get more stuff done around here like I used to.
     
  19. Kasper

    Kasper Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    671
    Gender:
    Male
    What thiamine supplement do you guys use ?
    I use energin, but was intersted in higher dosage thiamin.
    Searching for some supplement that has only thiamin hcl and gelatin as capsule.
     
  20. sunmountain

    sunmountain Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2014
    Messages:
    791
    Gender:
    Female
Loading...