Thiamine pyrophosphate over TTFD?

[jtoro]

Vitamin B1 (Thiamine Pyrophosphate)

<p>Vitamin B1 is also known as Thiamine and is one of the 8 B vitamins.</p>

www.metabolics.com

any thoughts over TTFD or Thiamine HCL? I think a lot of my symptoms (SIBO, anxiety, carb intolerance ) stem back to a thiamine deficiency (I had low blood levels when my symptoms first appeared but I didn't connect the dots).

Thanks

 

[Peatness]

I've been using this for a while now. I use other forms of thiamine but this one is really easy for me to dose. I place the drops under the tongue. It's difficult to know how much is begin absorbed. I have scar tissue on my scalp and my entire head can feel tight. When I use the drops I can feel instant release. I take that to mean it's being absorbed

 

[Ben.]

I tried to talk about this like a year ago but noone realy chimed in. I think it is worth a shot sublingually.

There have been two interesting comments on a youtube video explaining the thiamin forms:

Some of the thiamine found in food is free, but some of it is also in its "active" forms. Can we absorb it? No. In the intestine, the only way to absorb it is by dephosphorylating the vitamin (removing phosphate) to yield the free form. The same applies to P5P and R5P. We do not have machinery to absorb the active forms... we can only absorb the inactive, free forms. Hence, assuming Thiamine cocarboxylase reaches the gut... it will only be absorbed as free thiamine, which is basically the same as thiamine salts. On the other hand, if it DOES absorb through the buccal cavity in the mouth, then it may be beneficial. However, I have not yet come across any evidence that TPP can be absorbed that way. I am open to change my stance on that, if anyone can show me evidence to the contrary

So thiamin pyrophosphate trough digestion does not seem very effective, or lets say, not more effective than thiamin as hcl.
I had one bottle and used it both trough digesting it and keeping it under the tongue sublingually. Can't say i noticed much from it.

I've been using this for a while now. I use other forms of thiamine but this one is really easy for me to dose. I place the drops under the tongue. It's difficult to know how much is begin absorbed. I have scar tissue on my scalp and my entire head can feel tight. When I use the drops I can feel instant release. I take that to mean it's being absorbed

It didn't work for me but honestly i didn't dose very high and i might have been very impatient with leaving it in my mouth. But i've read a anectode that was realy interesting and reports it was working for him sublingually:

Hi Elliot. Your work improved my health beyond what I thought was possible. So the vitriole in my post is directed outwards not towards you. You give accurate biochemistry, however, I work with folks with and without severe disesase whom I call the 1%ers who can barely tolerate food or supplements. The reason for this is clear: their mitochondria are so damaged that they cannot process what we call nutrients. With that as a background your earlier video on testing for B1 status as it relates to the 1% and also the 19% where food and supplements may or may not work depending on which genes they have broken is useless except for the 80% remainder of the population that provides the income base for alternative medicine. This is why one person can claim miracles over a simple intervention while others circle the drain. The most heinous inflicted defect in mitochondria is the inability to phosphorylate. This was silently being addressed decades ago when P5P was put on the market to replace B6. Later we saw R5P. I didn't know for 30+ years that there was an active form of B1: thiamine cocarboxylase = thiamine pyrophosphate = thiamine diphosphate. That single bit of knowledge changed my life. Because I don't pander to the 80% of the money stream in alterNOTive medicine I have to work things out like:
Cyanocobalamin = industrial poison.
Methylcobalamin = only useful to UNDER methylators; poison to OVERmethylators.
Hydroxycobalamin = useless to those who can't covert it to methyl or adenosyl forms.
Adenosylcobalamin = only functional form of the substance for those about to DIE.
Likewise: you show the biochemistry for a WORKING cell and name your choice of a substance that still TRICKS it into the body. This highlights that even if mitochondria weren't damaged then the cell surface and transport systems might be. We're all in a world of hurt. The folks I work with don't have cells that follow the textbook pathways. My responsibility is to find the ONE form that fits all criteria for everyone so that no one gets left behind. That form would be the phosphorylated form. Why do people have oxalate problems? B1 and B6 is at the heart of trying to remedy that situation. BUT if the mitochondrial damage that LED to the oxalate crisis INCLUDES PHOSPHORYLATION DEFECTS then you can LITERALLY POISON SOMEONE WITH B1 AND B6 because the un-phosphorylated forms will build up as toxins. I suspect that the mononitrate and hydrochloride forms were invented for that purpose: to poison us and create the current BERIBERI EPIDEMIC WE SEE. So, oxalates are a problem NOT because of B1 and B6 'deficiency' but because the victims don't have textbook cell metabolism so they couldn't ACTIVATE the vitamins. Where does that leave us? Chemical companies sell ONLY REAGENT grade thiamine cocarboxylase. It is labeled NOT for human or veterinary use. Major vitamin sellers are Dicks where they either never responded to me, or I was told that it can take 2 years to introduce a new product line. The largest NUTRACEUTICAL SUPPLIER has thiamine cocarboxylase listed in their inventory but months after I contacted them they demurely said that they don't stock that compound. From my point of view: BERIBERI is a damned epidemic, it needs IMMEDIATE treatment with the ACTIVE compound, yet apart from a brand name that adulterates their crap with flavors and stearates and also has not responded to my requests for discussing the situation, the burden is on someone like you to find a nutraceutical source, or make your own line of EXCIEPIENT FREE activated B1 or folks are going to die from a disease that was falsely labeled as eradicated.

I understand your points. When I first saw your videos with the most important info on upregulating slowly, I was taking low dose of carboxylase under the my tongue for a month when Cerebral Salt Wasting Syndrome that I had for 20 years with no remedy from any therapy went away on its own. 48mg max at the end of that period. Anecdote lacking mechanism of action, but the intent was to provide the active form directly to the blood under the tongue since it is well documented that microbes will eat vitamins like B12 as soon as they arrive in the gut so enteric delivery is unreliable. Prior to using the active B1, I had been using B-complexes with inactive B1 and eating MASSIVE amounts of onions and garlic that should have been providing the allithiamine, yet the CSWS persisted. Until the chemistry is sorted out, would you please make a video on phosphorylation cycles and if there are any rate-limiting reactions that might prevent damaged phosphorylation pathways from working to their limited capacity? Due to my intent to solubilize my bile with Orthophosphoric Acid, I found that I do very well with the supplemental phosphorus and 4X the hydrogen ions for acid. With that comes concerns of excess phosphorus needing buffering, but if there is a phosphorus 'deficiency' then perhaps it is being used before it becomes a problem. Nearly everyone I know are devastatingly exhausted which brings up the "P" in ATP as a player in this epidemic of fatigue.

 

[Mauritio]

This is the one form , I havent tried. All other forms irritate my gut. So I might give this a shot .
@Ben. Where did you purchase yours?

 

[Ben.]

This is the one form , I havent tried. All other forms irritate my gut. So I might give this a shot .
@Ben. Where did you purchase yours?

I used the same brand the op proposed but bought it from this german website

PureWelt

Normally i rather buy from the brand/manufacterer himself but ever since the brexit, getting something to the eu from uk is insanely expensive.

 

[Mauritio]

I used the same brand the op proposed but bought it from this german website

PureWelt

Normally i rather buy from the brand/manufacterer himself but ever since the brexit, getting something to the eu from uk is insanely expensive.

Yes I ordered the same one

 

[Mauritio]

"The LVDP during reperfusion in the TPP-treated heart was significantly higher than that in the untreated heart. Metabolome analysis was performed using capillary electrophoresis–time-of-flight mass spectrometry, and it revealed that the TPP-treated heart retained higher adenosine triphosphate (ATP) levels compared with the untreated heart after ischemia. The metabolic pathway showed that there was a significant increase in fumaric acid and malic acid from the tricarboxylic acid cycle following ischemia. Electron microscope analysis revealed that the mitochondria size in the TPP-treated heart was larger than that in the untreated heart. Mitochondrial fission in the TPP-treated heart was also inhibited, which was confirmed by a decrease in the phosphorylation level of DRP1 (fission related protein). TPP treatment for cardiac ischemia preserved ATP levels probably as a result of maintaining larger mitochondria by inhibiting fission, thereby allowing the TPP-treated heart to preserve contractility performance during reperfusion."

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/japplphysiol.00578.2020

 

[Mauritio]

TPP> thiamine as an antioxidant
(Intraperitoneally administered)

The Effect of Thiamine and Thiamine Pyrophosphate on Oxidative Liver Damage Induced in Rats with Cisplatin

The aim of this study was to investigate the effect of thiamine and thiamine pyrophosphate (TPP) on oxidative stress induced with cisplatin in liver tissue. Rats were divided into four groups; thiamine group (TG), TPP + cisplatin group (TPG), healthy ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mauritio]

Less than 0.1mg cured someone's tinnitus.

Thiamine Pyrophosphate (TPP) Stopped My Tinnitus!

Hi everyone. I'm new here. I've been lurking. This is my first post. I have had tinnitus since 1985. Yes, 31 years! It has gotten better and...

www.tinnitustalk.com

 

[Ben.]

Less than 0.1mg cured someone's tinnitus.

Thiamine Pyrophosphate (TPP) Stopped My Tinnitus!

Hi everyone. I'm new here. I've been lurking. This is my first post. I have had tinnitus since 1985. Yes, 31 years! It has gotten better and...

www.tinnitustalk.com

Woah .. my eustachian tube is messed up since i have my tinnitus! ...

But it came back for him. when reading trough the posts. Anyhow, i never realy used the TPP regularly and the dosages are in mcg here. Perhaps i should've tried it more consistently. It also makes me wonder why the thiamin issue appeared in the first place. But that is a whole other rabbit whole ... to many causes...

 

[Mauritio]

Woah .. my eustachian tube is messed up since i have my tinnitus! ...

But it came back for him. when reading trough the posts. Anyhow, i never realy used the TPP regularly and the dosages are in mcg here. Perhaps i should've tried it more consistently. It also makes me wonder why the thiamin issue appeared in the first place. But that is a whole other rabbit whole ... to many causes...

It cambe back because he stood and then went away again. So it seems to have helped permanently, but not for many .

 

[Mauritio]

I've been using this for a while now. I use other forms of thiamine but this one is really easy for me to dose. I place the drops under the tongue. It's difficult to know how much is begin absorbed. I have scar tissue on my scalp and my entire head can feel tight. When I use the drops I can feel instant release. I take that to mean it's being absorbed

Why should it be taken sublingual?

 

[Ben.]

Why should it be taken sublingual?

Some of the thiamine found in food is free, but some of it is also in its "active" forms. Can we absorb it? No. In the intestine, the only way to absorb it is by dephosphorylating the vitamin (removing phosphate) to yield the free form. The same applies to P5P and R5P. We do not have machinery to absorb the active forms... we can only absorb the inactive, free forms. Hence, assuming Thiamine cocarboxylase reaches the gut... it will only be absorbed as free thiamine, which is basically the same as thiamine salts. On the other hand, if it DOES absorb through the buccal cavity in the mouth, then it may be beneficial. However, I have not yet come across any evidence that TPP can be absorbed that way. I am open to change my stance on that, if anyone can show me evidence to the contrary

 

[Mauritio]

Ok thx. I definitely noticed a hypoglycemic effect from just 1 mg.

 

[Peatness]

Why should it be taken sublingual?

I don't know if it 'should' but that's how I use it.

 

[Mauritio]

I don't know if it 'should' but that's how I use it.

Ok, to me it seemed to absorb sublingually and the hypoglycemia was similar to when I take 100mg of thiamine HCL .

 

[Peatness]

Ok, to me it seemed to absorb sublingually and the hypoglycemia was similar to when I take 100mg of thiamine HCL .

That's good to know, thanks

 

[Peatness]

Any updates on Thiamine Pyrophosphate?

​

 

[Ben.]

Any updates on Thiamine Pyrophosphate?

​

Similar to copper or oliveleaf , taking thiamine pyrophopsphate as drops sublingually can induce clearance of brainfog and a clearer head for me. Altough that effect does not occur everytime.

Is it just me or do others make tons of saliva when taking it? That makes it realy hard not to swallow it.

 

[Peatness]

Similar to copper or oliveleaf , taking thiamine pyrophopsphate as drops sublingually can induce clearance of brainfog and a clearer head for me. Altough that effect does not occur everytime.

Is it just me or do others make tons of saliva when taking it? That makes it realy hard not to swallow it.

I get that with saliva. I wish I had a way of knowing if this was superior to other forms of thiamine.