Thiamine made me angry?!

[I'm.No.One]

So today my thiamine showed up from Thiamax & I took one after breakfast.

For about half of the day I was just fu(king angry for no reason.

Like just the feeling of anger that's not prompted by anything.

This is not who I am as a person & the only other time that I experienced this was when I was coming off of benzos and it's known as benzo rage.

About halfway through the day it just morphed into utter overwhelm & not being able to really concentrate on my work then feeling incredibly emotionally unstable.

That passed about an hour ago.

Now for the first time in a very long time the skin on my upper ear is on fire, like I'm going to have to make an ice pack after writing this.

This was an initial symptom of benzo withdrawal that I went through a very long time ago. It only ever happens these days if I somehow eat something with hidden MSG (because MSG messes with the GABAs.)

So my guess is B1 is hitting my GABA receptors & causing issues.

Such a bummer, I've read so many amazing accounts of thiamine helping people but I can't go through these symptoms again.

Meaning it's kicking up a lot of withdrawal systems that had been long gone.

Anyone else experience anything like this from thiamine at all regardless of past benzo use?

 

[Dean]

I have the same problem with thiamine (and supplementing every other B vitamin actually). Agitation. Extreme agitation. Also get massive jaw tension. I believe it is a methylation issue.

I've just recently started thiamine again in hopes of mega dosing, trying to ride it out and hope it goes away or once I get the dose high enough maybe it will go away. I took my doses later in the day today (2 x500mg) and it seemed to help. I'm planning to get up to 1500 or 2000 mg hopefully; but we'll see.

I also had body odor issue when taking thiamine previously. So far, so good on that front at least.

 

[bogbody]

when i took thiamax it made me ravenously hungry, is it possible you were hangry? usually people recommend taking it with a carb heave meal.

 

[I'm.No.One]

when i took thiamax it made me ravenously hungry, is it possible you were hangry? usually people recommend taking it with a carb heave meal.

Nope, I took it right after breakfast & the whole house is on a 3000 cal a day meal plan for our daughters ED recovery.

So I had just ate a sh!t ton of carbs/proteins/fats for breakfast.

 

[I'm.No.One]

I have the same problem with thiamine (and supplementing every other B vitamin actually). Agitation. Extreme agitation. Also get massive jaw tension. I believe it is a methylation issue.

I've just recently started thiamine again in hopes of mega dosing, trying to ride it out and hope it goes away or once I get the dose high enough maybe it will go away. I took my doses later in the day today (2 x500mg) and it seemed to help. I'm planning to get up to 1500 or 2000 mg hopefully; but we'll see.

I also had body odor issue when taking thiamine previously. So far, so good on that front at least.

Well damn. I do have the MTHFR mutation.

Also double damn. I just got my BO to go away entirely by lowering my serotonin. So if I try to push through it I'll be angry & stinky?

 

[Dean]

Well damn. I do have the MTHFR mutation.

Also double damn. I just got my BO to go away entirely by lowering my serotonin. So if I try to push through it I'll be angry & stinky?

I feel ya. Can't win for losing.

Gonna try to stick it out though. Maybe evening/night dosing will work. I was ready to rip off heads yesterday when took morning and noon doses. But noon and evening today saw no such problem. We'll see if it impacts sleep, which was the concern in regard to dosage timing in previous attempts.

Also came across a suggestion today that molybdenum can help with the BO issue, if that arises again this time.

 

[redsun]

So today my thiamine showed up from Thiamax & I took one after breakfast.

For about half of the day I was just fu(king angry for no reason.

Like just the feeling of anger that's not prompted by anything.

This is not who I am as a person & the only other time that I experienced this was when I was coming off of benzos and it's known as benzo rage.

About halfway through the day it just morphed into utter overwhelm & not being able to really concentrate on my work then feeling incredibly emotionally unstable.

That passed about an hour ago.

Now for the first time in a very long time the skin on my upper ear is on fire, like I'm going to have to make an ice pack after writing this.

This was an initial symptom of benzo withdrawal that I went through a very long time ago. It only ever happens these days if I somehow eat something with hidden MSG (because MSG messes with the GABAs.)

So my guess is B1 is hitting my GABA receptors & causing issues.

Such a bummer, I've read so many amazing accounts of thiamine helping people but I can't go through these symptoms again.

Meaning it's kicking up a lot of withdrawal systems that had been long gone.

Anyone else experience anything like this from thiamine at all regardless of past benzo use?

Its probably just a sudden increase in glutamate activity caused by thiamine. This is why benzo withdrawal causes the same thing. GABA-A not only blocks glutamate, but also dopamine, norepinephrine, acetylcholine. When your neurotransmitters are disinhibited this often leads to anger and extra energy. MSG increases glutamate activity but does not mess with GABA. Your past benzo use may make you more sensitive to anything that increases glutamate activity.

Brain glutamate and gamma-aminobutyrate (GABA) metabolism in thiamin-deficient rats - PubMed

The brain metabolism of glutamate and gamma-aminobutyrate (GABA) was investigated in thiamin-deficient and pair-fed control rats, in order to determine whether the GABA shunt may provide an important alternative to 2-oxo-glutarate dehydrogenase (EC 1.2.4.2) in energy-yielding metabolism in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[I'm.No.One]

Its probably just a sudden increase in glutamate activity caused by thiamine. This is why benzo withdrawal causes the same thing. GABA-A not only blocks glutamate, but also dopamine, norepinephrine, acetylcholine. When your neurotransmitters are disinhibited this often leads to anger and extra energy. MSG increases glutamate activity but does not mess with GABA. Your past benzo use may make you more sensitive to anything that increases glutamate activity.

Brain glutamate and gamma-aminobutyrate (GABA) metabolism in thiamin-deficient rats - PubMed

The brain metabolism of glutamate and gamma-aminobutyrate (GABA) was investigated in thiamin-deficient and pair-fed control rats, in order to determine whether the GABA shunt may provide an important alternative to 2-oxo-glutarate dehydrogenase (EC 1.2.4.2) in energy-yielding metabolism in...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks for sharing.

However MSG for sure messes with GABA. So much so when folks are coming off of benzos we typically have to even avoid foods that naturally have it. Took me two years before bone broth set my skin on fire.

Diphenyl diselenide ameliorates monosodium glutamate induced anxiety-like behavior in rats by modulating hippocampal BDNF-Akt pathway and uptake of GABA and serotonin neurotransmitters

Monosodium glutamate (MSG), a flavor enhancer used in food, administered to neonatal rats causes neuronal lesions and leads to anxiety when adulthood.…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[aliml]

Paradoxical Reactions With TTFD: The Glutathione Connection - Hormones Matter

Some individuals experience negative reactions and the worsening of symptoms when they begin thiamine repletion therapies.

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[Angel45]

I can only take small doses 2x a day. I've given up on all mega dosing of vitamins over 10mg or so at a time. Not worth it for me. Just pushes me out of balance with other nutrients. I really like low dosing multiple times a day and can always add a small extra amount if under stress. One thing I've learned from a doctor is that the b's really feed your bacteria and there comes a time when you need to stop over feeding them. Slow and low with occasional breaks seems to be a long term strategy for me.

 

[Peatness]

From the thiamax website

https://www.objectivenutrients.com/products/thiamax-uk/

How to use​

• Take one capsule per day with or without food.
• Avoid coffee/tea consumption either one hour before or two hours after taking thiamax.
• Avoid taking this product in the afternoon/evening, as it may interfere with sleep.
• Should be taken alongside 200-400mg of magnesium & a high quality vitamin B-complex

For first time users who consider themselves sensitive to supplements:

• Start with half or quarter of a capsule per day by emptying half of the capsule contents into a small glass of water.
• Increase the dose every three or four days until you reach one full capsule.

Important information:​

• In some individuals, supplementation with Thiamax can induce a temporary worsening of certain symptoms such as fatigue, brain-fog, and digestive bloating or gas. This usually lasts for around one week, and is referred to as the “paradoxical reaction”.

 

[InChristAlone]

I like the low and slow approach as well and I'm not messing with the Thiamax. Thiamine hcl works fine. Also it needs magnesium especially if you are going to send a bunch of it into your cells all at once you are going to feel bad as your body adjusts to this.

 

[freyasam]

Thiamin can be tricky. I'm struggling to tolerate only 30-50 mg thiamin HCl, and I'm taking 1/5 of a B complex (pure encapsulations) in addition. If I could supplement magnesium safely, that would help. I've tried many magnesium supps over the years and they always cause problems for me. Personally I think magnesium supplements are toxic. And I don't see any difference in symptoms using epsom baths or magnesium spray.

 

[Dean]

Marine Based Magnesium 500mg 90 v-caps

Marine Based Magnesium | Nature's Answer Marine Based Magnesium Capsules - With one of the most comprehensive herbariums in the world,...

www.naturesanswer.com

Have you tried this magnesium? I had the same problem. Took me years to find a magnesium supplement I could tolerate and/or would work. Been using this one with great success.

I'm going all-out blitz on thiamine. Took 1500mg today. 500 mg with lunch, 1000 mg with supper. Had some irritability this afternoon but fine after the bigger dose this evening.

 

[freyasam]

Marine Based Magnesium 500mg 90 v-caps

Marine Based Magnesium | Nature's Answer Marine Based Magnesium Capsules - With one of the most comprehensive herbariums in the world,...

www.naturesanswer.com

Have you tried this magnesium? I had the same problem. Took me years to find a magnesium supplement I could tolerate and/or would work. Been using this one with great success.

I'm going all-out blitz on thiamine. Took 1500mg today. 500 mg with lunch, 1000 mg with supper. Had some irritability this afternoon but fine after the bigger dose this evening.

That mag looks interesting. How much you taking and does it help you tolerate thiamin at those doses?

Are you taking other b vitamins? Anything else to tolerate high dose thiamin?

 

[Blossom]

Marine Based Magnesium 500mg 90 v-caps

Marine Based Magnesium | Nature's Answer Marine Based Magnesium Capsules - With one of the most comprehensive herbariums in the world,...

www.naturesanswer.com

Have you tried this magnesium? I had the same problem. Took me years to find a magnesium supplement I could tolerate and/or would work. Been using this one with great success.

I'm going all-out blitz on thiamine. Took 1500mg today. 500 mg with lunch, 1000 mg with supper. Had some irritability this afternoon but fine after the bigger dose this evening.

Looks super interesting! Thanks

 

[Dean]

That mag looks interesting. How much you taking and does it help you tolerate thiamin at those doses?

Are you taking other b vitamins? Anything else to tolerate high dose thiamin?

I just started the high dose thiamine (today was 1st day at 1500 mg), so can't say one way or another yet.

I've taken two of that magnesium before bed for years. Just upped it to 3 and more spread out through day as also back to trying thyroid (T3). Just started Mag Threonate again as well. Also drinking mineral water (Pellegrino, Gerolsteiner). When I couldn't find this magnesium recently I also tried Kal Magnesium Orotate (which I had not seen before-- I have been taking their zinc orotate for a few yrs). I tolerated ok but didn't feel it worked as well on restless legs and such.

With the T3 and thiamine experiments definitely trying to up the mag. Not taking any other B's yet other than I use Foods Alive unfortified nutritional yeast quite often. As I say I don't tolerate B vitamin supps well but could really use the benefits of high dose thiamine, particularly for the chemical sensitivity issues that drove me out of my last job.

 

[Dean]

Looks super interesting! Thanks

You're welcome. It really was a godsend. I had been making the bicarbonate out of Pepto-Bismol after finding Peat, which helped me build up my magnesium and put a stop to the restless legs which drove me nuts in bed for years and years. Was getting tired of making the bicarbonate and was starting to have problems tolerating it and was lucky at that time to find the Nature's Answer magnesium. Been using it for like 5 yrs ever since @ 2 per night. Pretty smooth jump up to 3 per day recently. Really tolerate it well.

 

[Blossom]

You're welcome. It really was a godsend. I had been making the bicarbonate out of Pepto-Bismol after finding Peat, which helped me build up my magnesium and put a stop to the restless legs which drove me nuts in bed for years and years. Was getting tired of making the bicarbonate and was starting to have problems tolerating it and was lucky at that time to find the Nature's Answer magnesium. Been using it for like 5 yrs ever since @ 2 per night. Pretty smooth jump up to 3 per day recently. Really tolerate it well.

That’s great. It’s always good to know about supplements that other forum members like for future reference. I bookmarked it.

 

[I'm.No.One]

I haven't taken anymore. Still dealing with horrible symptoms from yesterday plus racing thoughts/anxiety waves I haven't had for well over a year.

Honestly it's just not worth it for me to undo alllll of the progress I've made over the years. I eat a lot of rich thiamine foods with no issues, so I think I'll stick to that. I think the damage done to my GABAs from benzos just makes this one a big risk.