Thiamine and Co-Factors

StephanF

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Feeling drunk was the exact the feeling i had when eating high carb, or like i was poisened. I think some histamine issues are there, but strangely i can eat chocolate or drink wine without issues. Endotoxins maybe? I will try out activated charchoal next week.
Charcoal is a good idea. With regard to the 'feeling drunk', could it be candida? Did you try 'MMS' (Miracle Mineral Supplement, which is chlorine dioxide)? In Germany I had ordered it from nulife.de, their product name is 'Aquapur'.


I have been using chlorine dioxide for over 10 years with good results, even now I am taking 4 activated drops (4 drops from each bottle) each day as a preventative against Covid-19. You can search my posts, I commented on MMS in the past on raypeatforum. Here is a website that lists testimonials, I posted one testimonial about arthritis of my mom's caretaker with two stiff fingers in Germany, after 5 days it was gone!


In the US, I order it from kvlab.com, I recommend the 5% hydrochloric acid as an activator:


I also use it as an oral rinse but I add a small amount of baking soda (tip of a teaspoon) to neutralize any remaining acid. In Germany, Andreas Kalcker has a website with interesting information on chlorine dioxide & corona virus:


Chlorine dioxide should get rid of parasites and candida. It is quite cheap, so why not try it? You can start slowly with a single activated drop and then slowly increase the dosage. I never went more that 6 activated drops at one time, then I started to get diarrhea. The 'Protocol 1000' recommends taking 3 activated drops every hour for 8 hours in severe health crises. I calculated that a total of 24 drops/day comes to 0.81% of the LD50 of chlorine dioxide for an 80-kg adult and is even below the level where no noticeable negative health effects were noticed in lab animals (EPA report). As a comparison, the LD50 for table salt is 240 g for an 80-kg adult. And the RDA of 1.5 g/day comes to 0.63% of its LD50. So I consider it safe but be advised that the FDA and the AMA and the media warn people about taking this 'dangerous' substance.
 
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mad539

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I did a stool test with negative result of candida, and i don't have any white covering over my tongue. I had it in the past while on antibiotics and some time after, but that went away. But i get very oily skin on the face when consuming sugar in any form (cookies, beverages, ..), so maybe there is something going on with candida.

As far as my research goes, it seems candida binds to heavy metals and protects the body by storing them. If you kill the candida, the stored heavy metals gets released and you feel worse. I think the culprit and root cause are the heavy metals.
 
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mad539

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I just wanted to write a short update. Supplementing thiamine hcl, sulbutiamine and benfotiamine worked fantastic for my energy levels (TTFD / thiamax should come next week). The headaches and muscle weakness from it goes away when taking potassium (as slow release potassium chloride) - currently taking between 2000-3000mg per day (diet is low of potassium, don't tolerate much fruits). Digest is way better, still a bit of bloating but the food i eat gets digested and doesn't sit there for hours. Finally feeling hunger again after years.
Mental clarity is getting better (still DPDR, maybe unrelated to thiamine), but motivation is up, happiness is up, articulation is better.
I can now easily eat over 150gr of white rice without feeling like ***t or becoming a zombie. Absolutely crazy. I don't know for how long i haven't tolerated carbs...

Downside is that i'm feeling cold very often, but that could be because of blood sugar. Also i should eat more.

Did another B6 test, seems my B6 is high again:
Vitamin B6 93.8 ng/ml (range: 4.4 - 40.0)

I stopped supplementing P5P 2 days before the test (10mg P5P from the b-complex), maybe my body didn't clear the P5P fast enough so it was still high. Or i don't tolerate the P5P at all. The next step would be rebuild the b-complex without P5P and to get down the B6 blood level and see what happens.

Looking back into my old notes from 2019, i noticed that i felt DPDR / disassociation the first time one month after taking these supplements daily:
- Fish Oil 5x capsules
- Vitamin D3 20.000 IE + 200 µg K2
- B6 (inactive as pyridoxine) 20 mg
- B12 500 µg
- Folate 400 µg

I'm now pretty sure that my DPDR was somehow triggered by B6. The other sups don't seem reasonable that they could have triggered anything, or?
 

Bart1

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Anybody know how long one has to be on thiamin if you suspect a more serious deficiency? I was taking about 200-300mgs a day but backed off it (can’t remember why), and I seem to get more and more neurological symptoms again.
I was thinking if one quits during refeeding of this nutrient it might make things worse? So you really should not suddenly quit when you still need it! But how do you know when you could taper off if ever?
 
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Braveheart

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I just wanted to write a short update. Supplementing thiamine hcl, sulbutiamine and benfotiamine worked fantastic for my energy levels (TTFD / thiamax should come next week). The headaches and muscle weakness from it goes away when taking potassium (as slow release potassium chloride) - currently taking between 2000-3000mg per day (diet is low of potassium, don't tolerate much fruits). Digest is way better, still a bit of bloating but the food i eat gets digested and doesn't sit there for hours. Finally feeling hunger again after years.
Mental clarity is getting better (still DPDR, maybe unrelated to thiamine), but motivation is up, happiness is up, articulation is better.
I can now easily eat over 150gr of white rice without feeling like ***t or becoming a zombie. Absolutely crazy. I don't know for how long i haven't tolerated carbs...

Downside is that i'm feeling cold very often, but that could be because of blood sugar. Also i should eat more.

Did another B6 test, seems my B6 is high again:
Vitamin B6 93.8 ng/ml (range: 4.4 - 40.0)

I stopped supplementing P5P 2 days before the test (10mg P5P from the b-complex), maybe my body didn't clear the P5P fast enough so it was still high. Or i don't tolerate the P5P at all. The next step would be rebuild the b-complex without P5P and to get down the B6 blood level and see what happens.

Looking back into my old notes from 2019, i noticed that i felt DPDR / disassociation the first time one month after taking these supplements daily:
- Fish Oil 5x capsules
- Vitamin D3 20.000 IE + 200 µg K2
- B6 (inactive as pyridoxine) 20 mg
- B12 500 µg
- Folate 400 µg

I'm now pretty sure that my DPDR was somehow triggered by B6. The other sups don't seem reasonable that they could have triggered anything, or?
Peat says its easy to overdo it with P5P....
 

Perry Staltic

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Anybody know how long one has to be on thiamin if you suspect a more serious deficiency? I was taking about 200-300mgs a day but backed off it (can’t remember why), and I seem to get more and more neurological symptoms again.
I was thinking if one quits during refeeding of this nutrient it might make things worse? So you really should not suddenly quit when you still need it! But how do you know when you could taper off if ever?

Have you tried allithiamine yet? It apparently can cross the blood/brain boundary unlike regular thiamine, so might not have to take so much.

 
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Anybody know how long one has to be on thiamin if you suspect a more serious deficiency? I was taking about 200-300mgs a day but backed off it (can’t remember why), and I seem to get more and more neurological symptoms again.
I was thinking if one quits during refeeding of this nutrient it might make things worse? So you really should not suddenly quit when you still need it! But how do you know when you could taper off if ever?
How have you been suspecting it? I had a pretty serious deficiency for almost for three years and perhaps a mild one for at least a few years before it. I started high dose thiamine almost a year ago and been using ttfd for the past 5 months, but recently had to back of and eventually stop, because it caused me weird symptoms even in smaller doses and no measures helped it (mg, K, other cofactors, b2, etc) and I fixed most of my issues and feel better without it.
 
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mad539

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Peat says its easy to overdo it with P5P....
Can you link the quote? I thought it is easy to overdo with pyridoxine HCL, but not with the active p5p. When taking large amounts of pyridoxine HCL, it blocks the active p5p:
(...) Moreover, both pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes were inhibited by pyridoxine. In conclusion, the present study indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-5'-phosphate. Consequently, symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.
Source: The vitamin B6 paradox: Supplementation with high concentrations of pyridoxine leads to decreased vitamin B6 function - PubMed

I just found out that a p5p deficency is connected to issues with the foot, called Morton's foot:
Nichols and Gaiteri(2014) showed the connection between a deficit of pyridoxal 5′-phosphate and the physical foot deformity known as the Morton’s foot.
Source: Morton's foot and B6 deficiency - Physiotherapists in Tralee

I have over-pronation and my second toe is the largest toe, so maybe i have "mortons foot".
 

Bart1

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How have you been suspecting it? I had a pretty serious deficiency for almost for three years and perhaps a mild one for at least a few years before it. I started high dose thiamine almost a year ago and been using ttfd for the past 5 months, but recently had to back of and eventually stop, because it caused me weird symptoms even in smaller doses and no measures helped it (mg, K, other cofactors, b2, etc) and I fixed most of my issues and feel better without it.
I had signs of very low co2 and immense fatigue. After using 300mg b1 hcl for some timeI also got weird symptoms so I thought I would back off.

How did things resolve for you ? Have you done other things ?
 
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I had signs of very low co2 and immense fatigue. After using 300mg b1 hcl for some timeI also got weird symptoms so I thought I would back off.

How did things resolve for you ? Have you done other things ?
Sorry I wasn’t clear. - for how long did you suspect the deficiency? My story is a bit complicated. It started with ibs - I lost 25 pounds and seveloped crazy fatigue paired with depression, anxiety, brain fog, bunch of food sensitivities and a host of other symptoms. It took two years to figure out it was thiamine deficiency. Fixing it is not as easy as it seems. My symptoms started in summer of 2017. As of now most of my issues are fixed, but still dealing with skin issues, which I can’t seem to figure out. I did some many things it’s hard to describe All of them: gut protocols, probiotics, Antibiotics, kefir, you name it. Rifaximin, oregano oil Helped. I also had sibo as a consequence of ibs.
 
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Sorry I wasn’t clear. - for how long did you suspect the deficiency? My story is a bit complicated. It started with ibs - I lost 25 pounds and seveloped crazy fatigue paired with depression, anxiety, brain fog, bunch of food sensitivities and a host of other symptoms. It took two years to figure out it was thiamine deficiency. Fixing it is not as easy as it seems. My symptoms started in summer of 2017. As of now most of my issues are fixed, but still dealing with skin issues, which I can’t seem to figure out. I did some many things it’s hard to describe All of them: gut protocols, probiotics, Antibiotics, kefir, you name it. Rifaximin, oregano oil Helped. I also had sibo as a consequence of ibs. My gut is still sensitive ro this day - can’t handle beans and legumes, potatoes are still hard to digest and cause gas so I need to be careful with foods.
 
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Sorry I wasn’t clear. - for how long did you suspect the deficiency? My story is a bit complicated. It started with ibs - I lost 25 pounds and seveloped crazy fatigue paired with depression, anxiety, brain fog, bunch of food sensitivities and a host of other symptoms. It took two years to figure out it was thiamine deficiency. Fixing it is not as easy as it seems. My symptoms started in summer of 2017. As of now most of my issues are fixed, but still dealing with skin issues, which I can’t seem to figure out. I did some many things it’s hard to describe All of them: gut protocols, probiotics, Antibiotics, kefir, you name it. Rifaximin, oregano oil Helped. I also had sibo as a consequence of ibs.
 

Bart1

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Sorry I wasn’t clear. - for how long did you suspect the deficiency? My story is a bit complicated. It started with ibs - I lost 25 pounds and seveloped crazy fatigue paired with depression, anxiety, brain fog, bunch of food sensitivities and a host of other symptoms. It took two years to figure out it was thiamine deficiency. Fixing it is not as easy as it seems. My symptoms started in summer of 2017. As of now most of my issues are fixed, but still dealing with skin issues, which I can’t seem to figure out. I did some many things it’s hard to describe All of them: gut protocols, probiotics, Antibiotics, kefir, you name it. Rifaximin, oregano oil Helped. I also had sibo as a consequence of ibs.
Thanks! I have the same issues with ibs. Also trying probiotics but not a real success yet, need to find a good one. Which one did you use?
 

Perry Staltic

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Thanks! I have the same issues with ibs. Also trying probiotics but not a real success yet, need to find a good one. Which one did you use?

For IBS this one has some science behind it.

 

laleto12

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thiamine hcl gives me this unbelievably horrible body odor. Its like chemical waste :D And it literally holds on to my clothes I think I have to dump some of them.
 

Bart1

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For IBS this one has some science behind it.

Thanks for this! I’m currently taking megasporebiotic which actually contains this species. However I am really dizzy from it and I don’t know where I’ve read it but apparently there’s also subtilis in it which might do something negative to thiamin status, but I’m not sure if that’s true ..
 
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Thanks for this! I’m currently taking megasporebiotic which actually contains this species. However I am really dizzy from it and I don’t know where I’ve read it but apparently there’s also subtilis in it which might do something negative to thiamin status, but I’m not sure if that’s true ..
if you have sibo most probiotics are a no no except saccharomyces boullardii, which is a beneficial fungus. It helped me also. Some probiotics made me worse. Do you have symptoms of sibo(discomfort, gas, bloating after fodmap foods, brain fog, etc )? But don’t except anything magical from probiotics. They should be applied only when your gut is somewhat healed and stable. Also removing problematic foods and reducing stress (too much exercise is a no also) is paramount.
 

Perry Staltic

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Thanks for this! I’m currently taking megasporebiotic which actually contains this species. However I am really dizzy from it and I don’t know where I’ve read it but apparently there’s also subtilis in it which might do something negative to thiamin status, but I’m not sure if that’s true ..

It's a bit of a job to sort out. Coagulens supposedly inhabits the small intestine where it metabolizes carbs before they reach the large intestine and are fermented there by bacteria that produce D-lactate, which is hard for the body to metabolize (potentially causing acidosis). Coagulens only produces L-lactate which is easy for the body to handle. I will be experimenting with probiotics that only produce L-lactate. Lactobacillus bulgaricus and streptococcus thermophilus are two that are used in Bulgarian yogurts and maybe some other yogurts too.

I have read that subtilis produces thiaminase, but have also read research that indicated it wasn't significant. The problem I see with megasporebiotics is that the dose per species per capsule is so low. I'd have to take 15 capsules of it to match what I get from one of my coagulens caps.
 
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mad539

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I tried out 100mg p-5-p for around 9 days just to see what happens, and it seems i have some kind of chronic ear infection that flames up when taking p-5-p. The place directly after the ear lobe gets very painful and sometimes the ear canal is blocked so i don't hear anything.

Exactly the same happens when taking high dose vitamin d3 (over 20.000 IE / day) or copper.

I can't wrap my head around it why this happens.
 

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