There's Goes Another!

[Nstocks]

Yeah, that's probably the problem honestly.

A young male needs AT LEAST 3000-3500 calories a day, easily 4000 or even more if active at all.

Assuming 200g carbs, 90g protein, and let's say 30g fat, puts you at like 1500 calories. WAY too low. Need *at least* twice that, and possibly more. 90g protein is sufficient if sedentary, and in the context of sufficient overall calories. However on a low calorie diet, that low protein intake is probably catabolized for glucose.

I'm fat, so I know my numbers aren't necessarily the optimal comparison point, but I eat 900-1,000 grams of carbs a day. I would literally die on only 200 a day lol.

Vitamin supplements are literally useless in the absence of sufficient calories.

I gain weight VERY easily and the truth is on Paleo I ate 3000 calories easily, mostly from fat but there's no way I can do that with a diet that is relies on carbs for energy.

Protein is a very difficult one, white fish and chicken breast are my staples. Eggs once a week and oysters act as a supplement.

 

[Cirion]

I gain weight VERY easily and the truth is on Paleo I ate 3000 calories easily, mostly from fat but there's no way I can do that with a diet that is relies on carbs for energy.

Protein is a very difficult one, white fish and chicken breast are my staples. Eggs once a week and oysters act as a supplement.

If you gain weight easily on 3000 calories, especially at your stature (6'2") that is a clear sign of metabolic dysfunction. @Kelj has posted several threads recently that talk about how fat/weight gain will temporarily occur after increasing calories from a history of chronic under-eating, but weight can and will normalize after. I don't quite agree with the "anything goes" philosophy of restorative eating, but I agree with Kelj that a young male, especially of your height, definitely needs to be eating 3000-3500 bare minimum.

 

[Collden]

Calories are around 1800 on most days - male, 6'2" 170lbs, 28, low level of physical activity, mostly walking and I agree I don't eat enough. Partially due to very infrequent bowel movements, especially without the use of cascara once a week. I'm working on it.

The issue I have with moving towards processed carbs is the sever lack of nutrients, white rice for example. I do enjoy new potatoes in most of my meals.

Beef jerky as a snack?

Ok, yes you definitely need to eat more, young tall male needs at least 3000-3500kcal. This should be your main priority right now.

Lack of nutrients in processed carbs is not an issue, they are not as devoid of nutrients as you think and if you actually eat enough food overall you will rarely get nutrient deficiencies, they are more common in people who undereat generally. I would say weight gain is also not an issue since you are already closer to underweight than overweight.

 

[Nstocks]

If you gain weight easily on 3000 calories, especially at your stature (6'2") that is a clear sign of metabolic dysfunction. @Kelj has posted several threads recently that talk about how fat/weight gain will temporarily occur after increasing calories from a history of chronic under-eating, but weight can and will normalize after. I don't quite agree with the "anything goes" philosophy of restorative eating, but I agree with Kelj that a young male, especially of your height, definitely needs to be eating 3000-3500 bare minimum.

I opted to go hardcore when I had enough of paleo, a few months after Peat I adopted a Matt Stone approach and gain overall mass very quickly. Body composition is largely the same in terms of little muscle and a bit of a waistline...

New potatoes are a nightshade - is this much of a concern?

 

[Nstocks]

Ok, yes you definitely need to eat more, young tall male needs at least 3000-3500kcal. This should be your main priority right now.

Lack of nutrients in processed carbs is not an issue, they are not as devoid of nutrients as you think and if you actually eat enough food overall you will rarely get nutrient deficiencies, they are more common in people who undereat generally.

I do struggle to eat and get enough into my meals - largely because large meals above I'd say 700 calories cause a lot of digestive discomfort. I'm office based so snacking isn't always possible and for teeth, that's probably not a good thing anyway.

I need to ask the question: What would you eat on a daily basis because I do think I'm way off the mark here.

 

[Bogdar]

Thanks for those links, very interesting to read and learn that kerrygold isn't particularly nutrient dense I had previously believed. WAPF recommends butter and Kerrygold was always top choice in the Paleo circles. Is there a butter you are aware of or use that is worth considering as a supplement for fat soluble vitamins?

I never eat beans or lentils, grains are rice cakes and occasional cooked rice (boiled).

I did not know that. I remember trying this brand when I traveled in the U.K, from memory it was not what I expected it to be (from the grass fed draw & the "gold" in the name).
I don't know where you live and I don't know any good quality brands other than in France. I personnally buy "Gaborit" raw grass-fed butter, which is the best I have ever tasted. Better in summer months than in winter months as expected, and can get quite dark yellow.
I would advice to buy a local grass-fed butter from a farmer, even without lab-tests it is easy to evaluate the quality of a butter (if there's no cheat in it, like carotens added or who knows caroten added as supplements in cow's diets). The yellower the better, and of course usually the better it tastes the richer it is.

 

[Nstocks]

I did not know that. I remember trying this brand when I traveled in the U.K, from memory it was not what I expected it to be (from the grass fed draw & the "gold" in the name).
I don't know where you live and I don't know any good quality brands other than in France. I personnally buy "Gaborit" raw grass-fed butter, which is the best I have ever tasted. Better in summer months than in winter months as expected, and can get quite dark yellow.
I would advice to buy a local grass-fed butter from a farmer, even without lab-tests it is easy to evaluate the quality of a butter (if there's no cheat in it, like carotens added or who knows caroten added as supplements in cow's diets). The yellower the better, and of course usually the better it tastes the richer it is.

I'm in the UK and I think the brand "President" found in most supermarkets as a French butter. What about Ghee?

 

[Collden]

I do struggle to eat and get enough into my meals - largely because large meals above I'd say 700 calories cause a lot of digestive discomfort. I'm office based so snacking isn't always possible and for teeth, that's probably not a good thing anyway.

I need to ask the question: What would you eat on a daily basis because I do think I'm way off the mark here.

Thats individual, if you can't digest something (like dairy) then don't eat it, but don't exclude anything simply because you think its not nutritious enough, the most important is to get enough calories in. Some dietary fat is very helpful to improve digestion and increase energy density so I would not do a low-fat diet. My energy base is from rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, beans, beef, chicken, chocolate drinks, some nuts and vegetables, apple juice, but I'm also doing a low-Vitamin A diet at the moment.

 

[Bogdar]

I'm in the UK and I think the brand "President" found in most supermarkets as a French butter. What about Ghee?

Yea lol president is a high distribution french brand, I think it might be the most popular butter here but like every worldwide / very popular brand, it's very poor quality. Don't expect it to have A K2 or E.
Ghee is no more than slightly cooked butter without the proteins in it. So, like every butter it depends.
Note that if you're expecting some E from your butter, I don't have data supporting this but since ghee can't be raw I would worry for the destiny of the vitamin E. Also apart from this, oxidised cholesterol might (might) be a problem too. The safer choice would be a raw grass-fed butter (and not ghee) but that being said it won't kill you in any case lol.

 

[InChristAlone]

Cavities are a bacteria problem. If the cavities are not deep please do silver diamine fluoride it kills the bacteria actively decaying your teeth and helps harden the dentin that is now too soft. They do it on kids teeth because treatment is too hard for them, not sure why they don't do it for adults too, maybe they figure it will keep getting worse and worse, but if you do it every 6 months you could save a tooth from a future root canal oh and it stains the decay black so probably most people choose drill and fill but do the SDF first to stop the decay.

 

[Kelj]

Thats individual, if you can't digest something (like dairy) then don't eat it, but don't exclude anything simply because you think its not nutritious enough, the most important is to get enough calories in. Some dietary fat is very helpful to improve digestion and increase energy density so I would not do a low-fat diet. My energy base is from rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, beans, beef, chicken, chocolate drinks, some nuts and vegetables, apple juice, but I'm also doing a low-Vitamin A diet at the moment.

This is very good advice.

 

[Nstocks]

Thank you all for the support and suggestions.

One of the key components for teeth health (in my research) are fat soluble vitamins which is often found in high quality dairy.

It's possible to obtain a good grass fed raw butter but for me I would end up cooking with it. As far as I know fat soluble vitamins do retain a good percentage after cooking but I don't know for sure. Plus, for cooking I use coconut oil.

Would green pastures activator x be worth using instead? This could remove my Thorne D/K supplement too. Or, I can try again with raw goat milk?

Next is more calories. This book is on my reading list https://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Vicious-Cycle-Intestinal-Through/dp/0969276818

 

[InChristAlone]

Thank you all for the support and suggestions.

One of the key components for teeth health (in my research) are fat soluble vitamins which is often found in high quality dairy.

It's possible to obtain a good grass fed raw butter but for me I would end up cooking with it. As far as I know fat soluble vitamins do retain a good percentage after cooking but I don't know for sure. Plus, for cooking I use coconut oil.

Would green pastures activator x be worth using instead? This could remove my Thorne D/K supplement too. Or, I can try again with raw goat milk?

Next is more calories. This book is on my reading list https://www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Vicious-Cycle-Intestinal-Through/dp/0969276818

Plenty of Weston a price followers with seriously decayed teeth. Need to stop the bacteria k2 might not be powerful enough if it's already started. Ozone, iodine, and silver diamine fluoride.

 

[Nstocks]

Plenty of Weston a price followers with seriously decayed teeth. Need to stop the bacteria k2 might not be powerful enough if it's already started. Ozone, iodine, and silver diamine fluoride.

Is iodine applied topically on the affected tooth? I agree, K2 right now won't do much and with the pain in one of my due to be replaced fillings, I may end up in a emergency dentist next week.

Question is, do I go all out on commercial products with fluoride (Dr Ellie' protocol) or strip it back to basics with homemade toothpastes and xylitol mouth wash.

 

[Kelj]

This is just a personal experience, so.....I've had a lot of dental work over the years and decided to try to never go to the dentist again. I did Dr. Ellie's protocol and found my gums improved. I kept thinking about Dr. Ellie's hesitancy to say you should use dental floss. She intimated that it might be useful to remove something stuck between your teeth with a piece of string, but that is as far as it goes. So part of what I did to change things was to stop flossing between my gums and my teeth. I wondered if we were actually regularly breaking the seal between our gums and teeth and forcing bacteria down into the tooth pockets, leading to the gingivitis and root canals. I kept thinking about how Weston Price found relatively cavity free populations around the world among people who never flossed, brushed their teeth or saw dentists. I started swishing once a day with coconut oil and saw a cavity begin to fade and further improvements in my gums. I heard Matt Stone talk about how his tooth enamel had improved when he began to eat more sugar and stop brushing his teeth so much. I had begun to recover from an orthorexic eating disorder by eating a lot more calories and especially more carbohydrates, so I decided to see if Matt was onto something. I began to brush my teeth gently, never in a motion against the gums, and used toothpaste for sensitive teeth because recovering from an eating disorder typically comes with enamel erosion before it gets better. So, this was a great time to test Matt's assertions. Somewhere in my recovery I broke two molars. I decided not to go to the dentist. I dropped the coconut oil. Here's what has occurred. My tooth enamel has visibly thickened and become whiter. The cavity that had begun to fade using the Listerine and fluoride is now completely gone and returned to white enamel. A little chip filled in with dentin on the back of one of my front teeth. The broken teeth are still there but seem strong and have not been painful. The sensitivity is gone and I just use some regular Burt's Bees toothpaste once a day in the morning. Dental floss only if I feel something stuck between the teeth, never below gum line. My gums are a perfect pink color with exact little points between every tooth and a part of the gum that had always been a little receded in the past and a little sore, is now exactly like the rest of my gums. I think we are too rough on our mouths and introduce bacteria by the recommended dental care. I think the main thing our teeth need is not to be starving. We need the energy to maintain our teeth , and our bodies will do that if we give them enough food. Of course, I'm still living, so the jury's out, but I'm much happier with the state of my mouth now.

 

[Waynish]

List next to each of the following whether having a significant dose on its own makes your teeth feel hard. Y'know that teething feeling you get?
-- sun exposed to skin for 15m minimum
-- K2
-- epsom salt baths
-- anti-serotonin drugs
-- any instances you noticed your teeth felt hard

 

[InChristAlone]

This is just a personal experience, so.....I've had a lot of dental work over the years and decided to try to never go to the dentist again. I did Dr. Ellie's protocol and found my gums improved. I kept thinking about Dr. Ellie's hesitancy to say you should use dental floss. She intimated that it might be useful to remove something stuck between your teeth with a piece of string, but that is as far as it goes. So part of what I did to change things was to stop flossing between my gums and my teeth. I wondered if we were actually regularly breaking the seal between our gums and teeth and forcing bacteria down into the tooth pockets, leading to the gingivitis and root canals. I kept thinking about how Weston Price found relatively cavity free populations around the world among people who never flossed, brushed their teeth or saw dentists. I started swishing once a day with coconut oil and saw a cavity begin to fade and further improvements in my gums. I heard Matt Stone talk about how his tooth enamel had improved when he began to eat more sugar and stop brushing his teeth so much. I had begun to recover from an orthorexic eating disorder by eating a lot more calories and especially more carbohydrates, so I decided to see if Matt was onto something. I began to brush my teeth gently, never in a motion against the gums, and used toothpaste for sensitive teeth because recovering from an eating disorder typically comes with enamel erosion before it gets better. So, this was a great time to test Matt's assertions. Somewhere in my recovery I broke two molars. I decided not to go to the dentist. I dropped the coconut oil. Here's what has occurred. My tooth enamel has visibly thickened and become whiter. The cavity that had begun to fade using the Listerine and fluoride is now completely gone and returned to white enamel. A little chip filled in with dentin on the back of one of my front teeth. The broken teeth are still there but seem strong and have not been painful. The sensitivity is gone and I just use some regular Burt's Bees toothpaste once a day in the morning. Dental floss only if I feel something stuck between the teeth, never below gum line. My gums are a perfect pink color with exact little points between every tooth and a part of the gum that had always been a little receded in the past and a little sore, is now exactly like the rest of my gums. I think we are too rough on our mouths and introduce bacteria by the recommended dental care. I think the main thing our teeth need is not to be starving. We need the energy to maintain our teeth , and our bodies will do that if we give them enough food. Of course, I'm still living, so the jury's out, but I'm much happier with the state of my mouth now.

I tried avoiding the dentist and ended up with a filling falling out due to decay and then a root canal and other deep cavities. I think it's dangerous advice. It may work for some if they do exactly what they need to do but what if it doesn't work out? Then you are looking at extractions or root canals. Oh I forgot to mention that I also ended up with periodontal disease by barely brushing and flossing. It's gotten loads better using the waterpik with the iodine and brushing and flossing twice a day. I clearly would not have been someone that could build up enamel just by doing Matt Stone stuff.


If you get furry teeth after meals please do NOT avoid cleaning your gums out. If they stay fairly clean with gentle brushing once a day fine. But most people have the mutant bacteria in America.

 

[Nstocks]

List next to each of the following whether having a significant dose on its own makes your teeth feel hard. Y'know that teething feeling you get?
-- sun exposed to skin for 15m minimum
-- K2
-- epsom salt baths
-- anti-serotonin drugs
-- any instances you noticed your teeth felt hard

Ive not thought about it before but after epsom salt baths my teeth usually feel stronger and it also helps with back pains.

 

[Kelj]

Thank you for the warning. There can be variables, of course. For me, all the trouble with my teeth and gums happened when I was diligently doing the flossing and frequent brushing, so I was looking for answers. I have been doing what I am doing for some time now, with improvement. Gums are fine, cavity healed, sensitivity gone.
The important factor that may have been missed from my long narrative is energy intake. When Weston Price observed populations with and without tooth decay, he was observing populations who were consistently well fed and those who were not. The one's who were not well-fed had cavities and also tuberculosis, a sure sign of malnourishment. I think the biggest change I made in the right direction is to never undereat minimum calorie guidelines for my age, sex and gender. I relearned what enough food is to ensure the energy my body needs for repair, including my teeth and maintain the healthiest environment in my mouth. This is a much more big picture accomplishment, which requires long-term commitment, rather than just changing dental hygiene practices. The one, it is probable, will not be successful without the other.

 

[InChristAlone]

Thank you for the warning. There can be variables, of course. For me, all the trouble with my teeth and gums happened when I was diligently doing the flossing and frequent brushing, so I was looking for answers. I have been doing what I am doing for some time now, with improvement. Gums are fine, cavity healed, sensitivity gone.
The important factor that may have been missed from my long narrative is energy intake. When Weston Price observed populations with and without tooth decay, he was observing populations who were consistently well fed and those who were not. The one's who were not well-fed had cavities and also tuberculosis, a sure sign of malnourishment. I think the biggest change I made in the right direction is to never undereat minimum calorie guidelines for my age, sex and gender. I relearned what enough food is to ensure the energy my body needs for repair, including my teeth and maintain the healthiest environment in my mouth. This is a much more big picture accomplishment, which requires long-term commitment, rather than just changing dental hygiene practices. The one, it is probable, will not be successful without the other.

I'm just not convinced it's about nourishment only. I studied WAPF stuff for years. My younger son was a product of that study and his teeth decayed as fast as they came in. Excess vitamin A could be a factor. Or maybe the acids in his diet, but my older son had acids as well maybe not as many but he definitely did and still does and his teeth are much stronger. We don't brush or floss them until they get pretty dirty. But not going to the dentist for the younger one cost us 3k in dental work. I am convinced if you have the mutant bacteria in your mouth either you ave to get rid of it or you will suffer. For some maybe the change in diet is enough to squelch it, for others, it's going to be much much harder. I also think WAPF kids are getting far too much retinol in comparison to the other fat solubles.