There's Goes Another!

[Nstocks]

Another THREE fillings!!!

Seriously, what the hell is going on?!

I've literally no idea where to turn now after trying so many things. Currently I use a soft electric toothbrush, brushing twice a day with a fluoride free, glycerin free toothpaste. I supplement Vit D and K and use xylitol gum throughout the day between meals.

 

[johnwester130]

Another THREE fillings!!!

Seriously, what the hell is going on?!

I've literally no idea where to turn now after trying so many things. Currently I use a soft electric toothbrush, brushing twice a day with a fluoride free, glycerin free toothpaste. I supplement Vit D and K and use xylitol gum throughout the day between meals.

what brand of vitamin k and what brand of vitamin d3

 

[LucyL]

Another THREE fillings!!!

Seriously, what the hell is going on?!

I've literally no idea where to turn now after trying so many things. Currently I use a soft electric toothbrush, brushing twice a day with a fluoride free, glycerin free toothpaste. I supplement Vit D and K and use xylitol gum throughout the day between meals.

I switched to Dr. Ellie Phillips protocol a couple years ago, and have been doing it religiously. I think it has made a difference, though I haven't had a official checkup since I started it. Since adulthood, my teeth had been a continual string of fillings and then fillings when the old ones began to decay, and then crowns etc. Horrible, and supplements, natural toothpastes, water pik etc were not helpful. Dr. Ellie's protocol isn't natural, and involves fluoride, but I was at the point where reward (no decay!) was greater than the risk.

Also, you might want to get another opinion. I suspect I got fleeced by a dentist early on, possible had unnecessary fillings and that contributed to the downward spiral.

 

[johnwester130]

I switched to Dr. Ellie Phillips protocol a couple years ago, and have been doing it religiously. I think it has made a difference, though I haven't had a official checkup since I started it. Since adulthood, my teeth had been a continual string of fillings and then fillings when the old ones began to decay, and then crowns etc. Horrible, and supplements, natural toothpastes, water pik etc were not helpful. Dr. Ellie's protocol isn't natural, and involves fluoride, but I was at the point where reward (no decay!) was greater than the risk.

Also, you might want to get another opinion. I suspect I got fleeced by a dentist early on, possible had unnecessary fillings and that contributed to the downward spiral.

do you take vitamin a

 

[Nstocks]

what brand of vitamin k and what brand of vitamin d3

I'm using Thorne D/K2

 

[Nstocks]

I switched to Dr. Ellie Phillips protocol a couple years ago, and have been doing it religiously. I think it has made a difference, though I haven't had a official checkup since I started it. Since adulthood, my teeth had been a continual string of fillings and then fillings when the old ones began to decay, and then crowns etc. Horrible, and supplements, natural toothpastes, water pik etc were not helpful. Dr. Ellie's protocol isn't natural, and involves fluoride, but I was at the point where reward (no decay!) was greater than the risk.

Also, you might want to get another opinion. I suspect I got fleeced by a dentist early on, possible had unnecessary fillings and that contributed to the downward spiral.

I tried this for a few months but I'm not convinced fluoride is the way to go. And it became very expensive, although I do continue with the xylitol gum.

But, like you describe, all this 'natural' stuff isn't getting me results either!

My (family) dentist is very reputable and being on the NHS I pay a fixed for for 1 filling or 5 fillings. My examination today plus 3 additional appointments for fillings will all fall under a single price bracket of around £60. I had to have one tooth pulled because it decayed very rapidly which leads me to think I'm not been fleeced and in fact possibly a overly cautious dentist?

 

[Nstocks]

do you take vitamin a

I don't and have recently dropped ALL dairy due to digestive issues. Cavaties have been an issue for a few years (but I had no issues during Paleo diet years). I'm faimilar with the Vitamin A toxicity thread and also don't eat carrots

 

[Bogdar]

Another THREE fillings!!!

Seriously, what the hell is going on?!

I've literally no idea where to turn now after trying so many things. Currently I use a soft electric toothbrush, brushing twice a day with a fluoride free, glycerin free toothpaste. I supplement Vit D and K and use xylitol gum throughout the day between meals.

Well you mentionned you eat a high sugar diet, if you've tried everything else maybe you should try to go lower on carbs especially glucose/fructose ?
I know some "Peaters" like to have sodas and/or add white sugar to some meals, if you're doing this I suggest to stop.

Also, do you drink coffee ? I personnally noticed when I drank coffee everyday (not that much tho) my teeth slowly decaded over months, they are more translucid on extremities as a result.

You seem to take K2/D3, maybe vitamin A (Weston Price's protocol to heal teeth cavities was this & some high quality minerals and vitamin E) so to me the problem is rooted elsewhere to something you are still doing and have been doing over last months/years. Like maybe having too much sugar (or too regular sugar meals without mouth rincing afterward).

 

[Nstocks]

Well you mentionned you eat a high sugar diet, if you've tried everything else maybe you should try to go lower on carbs especially glucose/fructose ?
I know some "Peaters" like to have sodas and/or add white sugar to some meals, if you're doing this I suggest to stop.

Also, do you drink coffee ? I personnally noticed when I drank coffee everyday (not that much tho) my teeth slowly decaded over months, they are more translucid on extremities as a result.

You seem to take K2/D3, maybe vitamin A (Weston Price's protocol to heal teeth cavities was this & some high quality minerals and vitamin E) so to me the problem is rooted elsewhere to something you are still doing and have been doing over last months/years. Like maybe having too much sugar (or too regular sugar meals without mouth rincing afterward).

My carbs are around 200g and the vast majority comes from fruit. I don't consume any juice or soda and white sugar comes in the form of Haribo candy. I agree that this isn't ideal for teeth health.

I drink one cup of drip coffee most mornings, followed by xylitol gum to get rid of 'coffee breath'.

Vitamin E is something I'm looking into for other issues (lichen sclerosis) and I'll be adding kerrygold butter back into my diet for the high quality fat soluble vitamins.

Todays diet:

coffee
lemon and ginger tea
seabass and new potatoes
chicken salad
rice cakes
red grapes
chocolate bar

 

[Bogdar]

So as you said previously you avoid vitamin A, while taking vitamin D & K2 for years as supplements. It seems a very bad idea to me, taking any supplements for years without cycling them / doing regular bloodtests is likely to mess you a bit, and taking such doses of fat soluble vitamins without A (& E) is also likely to strengthen imbalances over months/years. Too much vitamin D also causes bone/teeth problems

 

[Collden]

Why are you still consuming so much fruit and sugar when you know how bad it is for your teeth? I agree with a previous poster that refined starches like rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, corn, etc are the best way to get energy without harming your teeth.

Overall protein and calorie intake also matter for dental health the same as it does for bone health and immune function generally.

You should probably use tooth paste with fluoride in it.

 

[Nstocks]

So as you said previously you avoid vitamin A, while taking vitamin D & K2 for years as supplements. It seems a very bad idea to me, taking any supplements for years without cycling them / doing regular bloodtests is likely to mess you a bit, and taking such doses of fat soluble vitamins without A (& E) is also likely to strengthen imbalances over months/years. Too much vitamin D also causes bone/teeth problems

Avoiding A has happened the past 4 months or so and I usually take a few months break from any supplement, once I have completed the container/bottle.

I've recently had blood tests carried out which shows all B vitamins are on the low side and D is around 90ng/mL

 

[Nstocks]

Why are you still consuming so much fruit and sugar when you know how bad it is for your teeth? I agree with a previous poster that refined starches like rice, pasta, bread are the best way to get energy without harming your teeth.

Overall protein and calorie intake also matter for dental health the same as it does for bone health generally.

You should probably use tooth paste with fluoride in it.

Because what else do I eat? ! Avoid all grains except rice cakes, all dairy except when I add butter and limited muscle meat. Protein comes from white fish, chicken and beef which gives me at least 90g per day. For my own sanity I cannot consume vast amount of processed packaged foods because it drags me down compared to eating fresh, alive food.

I agree, avoiding fluoride is not helping me.

 

[johnwester130]

consider adding in vitamin a for balance

consider calcium carbonate mouthwash like
Uncle Harry's Natural Alkalizing Miracle Mouthwash

consider using goat milk instead of cow milk

 

[Nstocks]

consider adding in vitamin a for balance

consider calcium carbonate mouthwash like
Uncle Harry's Natural Alkalizing Miracle Mouthwash

consider using goat milk instead of cow milk

I've been cow milk free since 2015 when I introduced goat milk (mostly raw, organic and grass fed). I removed all milk earlier this year which has helped greatly with digestive issues.

 

[Bogdar]

My carbs are around 200g and the vast majority comes from fruit. I don't consume any juice or soda and white sugar comes in the form of Haribo candy. I agree that this isn't ideal for teeth health.

I drink one cup of drip coffee most mornings, followed by xylitol gum to get rid of 'coffee breath'.

Vitamin E is something I'm looking into for other issues (lichen sclerosis) and I'll be adding kerrygold butter back into my diet for the high quality fat soluble vitamins.

Todays diet:

coffee
lemon and ginger tea
seabass and new potatoes
chicken salad
rice cakes
red grapes
chocolate bar

Well I'm so unsure about Kerrygold butter, I'm not aware how it is made or how the cows are grown, but for the data there is I would not buy it.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/cod-liver-oil/vitak-test-results/ doc n°2
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/cod-liver-oil/ube-test-results/ n°25
Above are vitamin A, D & K2 of the kerrygold butter. Looks pretty poor, and very comparable to average (bad) quality butter you can find in any big store. For their defense, we don't really know in what seasons these tests are made - but if you compare it, on the same links with other "grass-fed" butters, kerrygold has like 5 to 10+ less A & K2, which are witnesses of good quality (free-range and grass fed) butter.

I forgot to mention, but of course some antinutrients can also worsen cavities, even if you don't mentionned it in your diet exemple, maybe your more sensible to some whole grain / beans or lentils you have in diet (it doesn't seem like it is the case).

 

[Collden]

If you're getting only 200g carbs and 90g of protein, and I'm guessing you don't get a lot of fat, then it would seem you are not getting close to enough overall calories, which will negatively impact your dental health along with everything else. I generally have no issues with my teeth, but the one time I had bad tooth problems was when I was severely under eating.

I still think your best option is to cut out the fruits and include energy dense starchy carbs to bring your overall calorie levels up, protein intake could be somewhat higher as well unless you are a petite woman. If you tolerate rice then eat more of that. White pasta is also good with minimal impact on your teeth. What about potatoes?

I can't say why but I feel that boiled starches have a particularly salubrious effect on oral health compared to other forms of starch like bread or cakes.

 

[Nstocks]

Well I'm so unsure about Kerrygold butter, I'm not awared how it is made or how the cows are grown, but for the data there is they I would not buy it.
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/cod-liver-oil/vitak-test-results/ doc n°2
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/cod-liver-oil/ube-test-results/ n°25
Above are vitamin A, D & K2 of the kerrygold butter. Looks pretty poor, and very comparable to average (bad) quality butter you can find in any big store. For their defense, we don't really know in what seasons these tests are made - but if you compare it, on the same links with other "grass-fed" butters, kerrygold has like 5 to 10+ less A & K2, which are witnesses of good quality (free-range and grass fed) butter.

I forgot to mention, but of course some antinutrients can also worsen cavities, even if you don't mentionned it in your diet exemple, maybe your more sensible to some whole grain / beans or lentils you have in diet (it doesn't seem like it is the case).

Thanks for those links, very interesting to read and learn that kerrygold isn't particularly nutrient dense I had previously believed. WAPF recommends butter and Kerrygold was always top choice in the Paleo circles. Is there a butter you are aware of or use that is worth considering as a supplement for fat soluble vitamins?

I never eat beans or lentils, grains are rice cakes and occasional cooked rice (boiled).

 

[Cirion]

If you're getting only 200g carbs and 90g of protein, and I'm guessing you don't get a lot of fat, then it would seem you are not getting close to enough calories, which will negatively impact your dental health along with everything else. I generally have no issues with my teeth, but the one time I had bad tooth problems was when I was severely under eating.

I still think your best option is to cut out the fruits and include energy-dense starchy carbs to bring your overall calorie levels up, protein intake could be somewhat higher as well unless you are a petite woman. If you tolerate rice then eat more of that. White pasta is also good with minimal impact on your teeth. What about potatoes?

Yeah, that's probably the problem honestly.

A young male needs AT LEAST 3000-3500 calories a day, easily 4000 or even more if active at all.

Assuming 200g carbs, 90g protein, and let's say 30g fat, puts you at like 1500 calories. WAY too low. Need *at least* twice that, and possibly more. 90g protein is sufficient if sedentary, and in the context of sufficient overall calories. However on a low calorie diet, that low protein intake is probably catabolized for glucose.

I'm fat, so I know my numbers aren't necessarily the optimal comparison point, but I eat 900-1,000 grams of carbs a day. I would literally die on only 200 a day lol.

Vitamin supplements are literally useless in the absence of sufficient calories.

 

[Nstocks]

If you're getting only 200g carbs and 90g of protein, and I'm guessing you don't get a lot of fat, then it would seem you are not getting close to enough calories, which will negatively impact your dental health along with everything else. I generally have no issues with my teeth, but the one time I had bad tooth problems was when I was severely under eating.

I still think your best option is to cut out the fruits and include energy-dense starchy carbs to bring your overall calorie levels up, protein intake could be somewhat higher as well unless you are a petite woman. If you tolerate rice then eat more of that. White pasta is also good with minimal impact on your teeth. What about potatoes?

Calories are around 1800 on most days - male, 6'2" 170lbs, 28, low level of physical activity, mostly walking and I agree I don't eat enough. Partially due to very infrequent bowel movements, especially without the use of cascara once a week. I'm working on it.

The issue I have with moving towards processed carbs is the sever lack of nutrients, white rice for example. I do enjoy new potatoes in most of my meals.

Beef jerky as a snack?