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There Are No Giant Conspiracies

Discussion in 'Society' started by BehcetsBoy, Mar 23, 2020.

  1. thomas00

    thomas00 Member

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    +1

    Hugh's posts are a great read
     
  2. postman

    postman Member

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    ThE cAPiTaliStS aRe desTrOyINg THe wOrLD!!!1!1!!!1!!

    bANkS? NOthINg tO SEe tHErE mOVe ALonG!1!!1

    Why are marxists like this? Facts don't matter in the slightest to you.
     
  3. jb116

    jb116 Member

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    This thread is a conspiracy
     
  4. thomas00

    thomas00 Member

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    What on earth are you talking about?

    And who are the Marxists here exactly?
     
  5. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Apparently me. I'm not but postman quite clearly can not handly any nuance. I'm in analytically mostly in the MMT camp, and politically democratic socialist, not a Marxist.
     
  6. postman

    postman Member

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    No I meant thomas00. He does the typical marxist critique of capitalism, which is inherently conspiratorial, while at the same time saying conspiracies don't exist and you're irrational and religious if you think they do, and he doesn't acknowledge basic facts about the banking system. The system he would criticize if he had consistency, the banking system is the principal means of financial control in the world. A lot of marxists do this quasi-critique of capitalism, refusing to look at the main drivers of capitalist corruption. Also refusing to look closely at any type of corruption, why it exists, who is involved and why, instead choosing to explain any and all corruption with "muh capitalism" and mocking everyone who does deeper analysis.

    I think MMT would be superior to the current oligarchic monetary system. Democratic socialism is very much a marxist position. Maybe you meant to say social democracy which is more of a mixed economy type of a system.
     
  7. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Socialism, the idea that the those who work at the factory (or a farm etc) should be the ones that own and control it, is an idea older than Marx. Marxism is an ideology, while Socialism is a political position, while Marxist analysis is a way of analyzing the world. I do not even think the material world exist, so I can not possibly consider a materialist ideology. I also do not believe that any system of thought can provide a full representation of the world, at best they provide simplification that at best are useful for getting stuff done.

    I am democratic socialist for the same reasons I support the democratic from for governance in the political sphere. I have values like freedom, autonomy, free choice equality, etc.
     
  8. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    Seems a very sane outlook to me.

    Top little knowledge of MMT myself, Im just now trying to understand the „shism“ between Guys like Varoufakis and Galbraith and the MMT, or where guys like Piketty stand. I’m not an economist, far from it, but I have always felt on the left side of economical and political spectrum. A liberal stance. But both terms mean different thinks in different nations, upbringings and educations.
     
  9. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    I could not tell you what their fine differences are. If this is a genuine interest, awesome, I suggest reading their books or listening to their lectures. But if it's a hobby or simply a desire to engage politically in an intelligent manner, you hardly need an in depth understanding of the topic.

    Most people just need to know that money is a state creation, a state utility that can be used to secure full employment, and that strong financial regulation such as that adopted by the US after WW2 is highly effective in safeguarding growth and stability.
     
  10. michael94

    michael94 Member

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    Then why do you defend private banks? Why do private banks ( who answer to no one ) get to play parasitic middle man in the creation of money? Worse than middleman, they control the direction of newly created money. If the State was creating money in exchange for work or loaning in specified circumstances for various projects, that would be one thing. But instead most "money" is created by PRIVATE BANKS by fractionally lending or borrowing freshly created money from the FED at low interest rate and loaning it out at a higher one. That is the furthest thing from "democratic", that is financial tyranny.
     
  11. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    I‘m in the process of processing.
    Varoufakis is alleged to not understand MMT and his proposal for Eurozone financial reforms he made for last years EU-Election sparked a minor fallout with Piketty who proposes a green new deal. They differ on how the funds should be generated and which institutions shall implement and control. No small issues but ultimately none of these economists ideas will come to fruition with the current power structures.
    @Hugh Johnson

    You likely know about Warren Mosler and Randal Wray? Is that a starting point for reading ?
     
  12. Hugh Johnson

    Hugh Johnson Member

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    Demand creates work, other way around does not function. I have not defended private banking system, and I have no strong opinion on that. Banks are a valuable mechanism that transfers resources to from surplus sectors to deficit sectors. Banks make money because they are presumably effective middle men. Might not be true, I have no idea.

    There also is no "fractional reserve banking". That is a gold standard era model, in the modern era there is a Lender of Last Resort, and thus bank capital and loan demand is the limiting factor in lending.

    @LeeLemonoil Or Stephanie Kelton or Bill Mitchell, whoever you enjoy they are all quite competent. I'm sure you are correct about Varoufakis, I have not followed these things for years. I always thought his plan on how to save Greece as presented in his articles was ridiculous, but then again, I am neither a politician nor an economist so what do I know.
     
  13. michael94

    michael94 Member

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    Fractional reserve lending is obsolete when you can just debit an account with $$$ without checking reserves. To cover withdrawals the banks can draw on their reserves ( gained dishonestly mind you ), or get cheap credit from the FED ( freshly printed inflationary money at a low interest rate which is more than covered by high interest payments on loans they give out ). In fact many private loans directly coincide with line of credit from the FED in anticipation of covering the debit. Private banks get new money at a low interest rate and then are loaning it at 20%. It doesn't match their behavior to say banks are limited by their Capital when giving out loans. Although they have such a large circle of high interest payments coming in for so long that their reserves are massive. But any sane country would do well to be rid of these parasites and go directly to state created dollars with high transparency.

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/m...hash=9A8788FD44A62D8BB927123544205CE476E01654
     
  14. LeeLemonoil

    LeeLemonoil Member

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    @michael94

    Which bank loans out for 20% and who takes those loans? Where would that exist?
     
  15. michael94

    michael94 Member

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    Sorry, hyperbole. I havent taken out a loan so I dont know what the going rate for a mortgage or whatever is. My point is, I agree that the State should be in charge of creating money but what is going on right now with the FED and their connections to private banking is not that. The money also has to be backed by productive work and/or other resources of value. I'm not in favor of a gold standard because of the way gold has been hoarded and manipulated.
     
  16. berk

    berk Member

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    Conspiracy theories ARE religions. they are both the same.

    example: long long time ago people doesn't understand that the sun was a planet of fire, they doesn't understand wat wind was...
    they doesn't understanding lightning .
    This makes them afraid and were looking for answers. but because they doesn't have the knowledge then we now have, they are making there own theories.
    There ow conspiracy theories.
    They makes story's about that lightning, the sun, the wind were gods... and tadaa, religion was born.

    These topic starter is perfect example whats going on.
    Got An "Extreme Emergency: STAY HOME" Text Yesterday; Today I See Jets Spraying A Thick White Thing
    He saw some jets flying over the sky releasing some very thick, white smoke-like thing, he doesn't know what it was, he got scared
    and makes some theories that there must be something evil going on. worst-case scenarios of governments trying to kill us.
    With other words, people got scared, CAN'T control himself and instead of do some research whats going on, there make there own theories.
    And tadaa conspiracy theories/religions however you wanna call it are born.

    there is a big link between relegion and IQ.
    this is way i post this messege to @charlie
    non-intellectual attracting non-intellectual , you don't want these blind following brainless sheeps here, they are spamming a lot of fear theories here and lot of other brainless sheeps believing these ***t, go's to the supermarket and fighting there ass off for some toilet paper.
     
  17. Experienced

    Experienced Member

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    He definitely is playing a game.



    A little young guy in Syria said once before dying. I'll complain about all of you to allah. And after couple weeks or months this pandemic started. I'm not stating that something has to do with any religions or whatever I'm just bringing up this random stuff just so you people know what's going around.
     
  18. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    The part I bolded in your quote is completely false, and you misrepresented his post.

    You have completely misrepresented what he said. Direct quote from his original post-

    "I believe in conspiracies but I was never THAT into conspiracies but I don't know what to make of this.

    I truly hope that I am just making connections that don't exist and falsely and prematurely jumping to worst-case scenarios."

    I have no idea where you are, but in the US, we are experiencing a government overreach of power that has never been attempted before, and it is going on at all levels, local, state, and federal. I don't ever remember getting an "Extreme Emergency" alert, and am very familiar with the EAS system, so for the poster to be concerned and start a thread is very legitimate. Your outright dismissal of what's unfolding before our very eyes is ignorant, to say the least.
     
  19. raysputin

    raysputin Member

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    Credit cards.
     
  20. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Apparently mortgage rates in the early 80s were approaching 20%.
     
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