Theory: Sugar Is A Metabolic 'activator', Works Well If Body Has Enough Nutrients

[danishispsychic]

honestly, i really think the missing link to the " carnivore " diet is sugar- when i stopped being " plant based " and went " animal based with a ton of a2 milk- butter, cheese, bacon, eggs, some muscle meats, macaroons , ( way better for me than coconut in oil form ) and a TON of white sugar, gelatin, and coffee , my whole brain body and temps changed. i still struggle with orange juice- it gives me acid reflux and cold sores. i kind of hate fruit right now.

 

[Cirion]

honestly, i really think the missing link to the " carnivore " diet is sugar- when i stopped being " plant based " and went " animal based with a ton of a2 milk- butter, cheese, bacon, eggs, some muscle meats, macaroons , ( way better for me than coconut in oil form ) and a TON of white sugar, gelatin, and coffee , my whole brain body and temps changed. i still struggle with orange juice- it gives me acid reflux and cold sores. i kind of hate fruit right now.

good call. I am starting to think this as well. I think red meat, especially grass fed, is the king of meats. Probably a good reason why red meat is now the staple meat/protein among many top bodybuilders nowadays. As long as you take gelatin with it to balance any negative amino acid's, then you're golden. And sugar to counter-balance the glucose drop from protein.

After I found out that coconut oil decreases DHT, I dramatically lowered my intake of it and replaced it with fats like you said (butter, cheese, beef...) and I think I am slowly improving.

 

[TeaRex14]

good call. I am starting to think this as well. I think red meat, especially grass fed, is the king of meats. Probably a good reason why red meat is now the staple meat/protein among many top bodybuilders nowadays. As long as you take gelatin with it to balance any negative amino acid's, then you're golden. And sugar to counter-balance the glucose drop from protein.

After I found out that coconut oil decreases DHT, I dramatically lowered my intake of it and replaced it with fats like you said (butter, cheese, beef...) and I think I am slowly improving.

Where did you see coconut oil decreases DHT?

 

[danishispsychic]

good call. I am starting to think this as well. I think red meat, especially grass fed, is the king of meats. Probably a good reason why red meat is now the staple meat/protein among many top bodybuilders nowadays. As long as you take gelatin with it to balance any negative amino acid's, then you're golden. And sugar to counter-balance the glucose drop from protein.

After I found out that coconut oil decreases DHT, I dramatically lowered my intake of it and replaced it with fats like you said (butter, cheese, beef...) and I think I am slowly improving.

yes! i am kind of waiting for all the hard core carnivore gurus out there to discover SUGAR. and yes, butter is king. i did discover that macaroons for me act as kind of a " carrot salad " and since i really detest ice cream ( have no idea why ) they are a good dessert and go well with the gallons of coffee i drink. i like a brand called jennys that are on vitacost. 2 or 3 a day is my jam.

 

[Cirion]

yes! i am kind of waiting for all the hard core carnivore gurus out there to discover SUGAR. and yes, butter is king. i did discover that macaroons for me act as kind of a " carrot salad " and since i really detest ice cream ( have no idea why ) they are a good dessert and go well with the gallons of coffee i drink. i like a brand called jennys that are on vitacost. 2 or 3 a day is my jam.

I used to find myself addicted to ice cream myself, but now that I'm getting more in tune with what helps my body and what doesn't, I find that ice cream is a net negative for my body too. Not only do I get knocked out / sedated from it (It feels like serotonin to me) but it also seems to destroy my temperatures in the morning. So far this week it has lowered my waking temperatures as much as 0.5F, by having it at night time. I have actually been in quite the bad mood every day this week so far after bringing ice cream back. Seems like it is time to kick it out again. I don't think I do well with either eggs or milk fat, both of which ice cream has so that's bad news to me. It puts me to sleep, but using stress hormones (serotonin). Chocolate ice cream is even worse - it tastes immediately good but the sedation effects are worse, presumably because of the caffeine in chocolate (and I don't tolerate caffeine well). So maybe you have more or less the same problems with it that I do?

 

[Jsaute21]

honestly, i really think the missing link to the " carnivore " diet is sugar- when i stopped being " plant based " and went " animal based with a ton of a2 milk- butter, cheese, bacon, eggs, some muscle meats, macaroons , ( way better for me than coconut in oil form ) and a TON of white sugar, gelatin, and coffee , my whole brain body and temps changed. i still struggle with orange juice- it gives me acid reflux and cold sores. i kind of hate fruit right now.

Milk or good cream in coffee with help with reflux, as does good baking soda in OJ. Makes both these great drinks far less acidic. Worth a try.

 

[LUH 3417]

honestly, i really think the missing link to the " carnivore " diet is sugar- when i stopped being " plant based " and went " animal based with a ton of a2 milk- butter, cheese, bacon, eggs, some muscle meats, macaroons , ( way better for me than coconut in oil form ) and a TON of white sugar, gelatin, and coffee , my whole brain body and temps changed. i still struggle with orange juice- it gives me acid reflux and cold sores. i kind of hate fruit right now.

Did you ever use pregnenelone for cold sores?

 

[tankasnowgod]

I have experienced the same thing. I started taking a B complex and began getting most my carbs calories from jam and honey and am losing weight. 2 years ago when I first found peat I gained 20 lbs trying to eat simple sugars as a main carb source.

Which B complex are you using?

 

[LUH 3417]

Which B complex are you using?

Health natura 2xa day. I also take sublingual b12 since health natura does not have b12.

 

[danishispsychic]

Milk or good cream in coffee with help with reflux, as does good baking soda in OJ. Makes both these great drinks far less acidic. Worth a try.

ya know what? i didnt like adding milk to my oj but never thought about adding cream - that actually is a great idea and is probs strong enough to cut the acid. thank you for the idea!

 

[danishispsychic]

I used to find myself addicted to ice cream myself, but now that I'm getting more in tune with what helps my body and what doesn't, I find that ice cream is a net negative for my body too. Not only do I get knocked out / sedated from it (It feels like serotonin to me) but it also seems to destroy my temperatures in the morning. So far this week it has lowered my waking temperatures as much as 0.5F, by having it at night time. I have actually been in quite the bad mood every day this week so far after bringing ice cream back. Seems like it is time to kick it out again. I don't think I do well with either eggs or milk fat, both of which ice cream has so that's bad news to me. It puts me to sleep, but using stress hormones (serotonin). Chocolate ice cream is even worse - it tastes immediately good but the sedation effects are worse, presumably because of the caffeine in chocolate (and I don't tolerate caffeine well). So maybe you have more or less the same problems with it that I do?

i might have overdosed on gelato and haagen dazs last summer AND when i used to be bulimic back in the day, i used to use ice cream at the end of meals to do the deed.( that was a long time ago- i am recovered ) i tried to make friends with ice cream when i started peating but it just makes me feel gross and sleepy. chocolate ice cream is gross but choc gelato in ITALY is amazing. maybe my body does not like the combo of cold ( spleen ) and fats? who knows :)

 

[Luann]

who knows :)

I certainly don't :)
I do love raspberry sherbet though.

 

[Homo Consumericus]

Over a year now. I took a lot at the start of peating, about 1 gram a day for the first few weeks. Now I take around 1 gram every week.

Did you notice any of the cognitive benefits Ray Peat describes with respect to memory and recall?

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Did you notice any of the cognitive benefits Ray Peat describes with respect to memory and recall?

Somewhat, not so much in processing speed, but better focus.

 

[CrystalClear]

Probably one of the few things I actually disagree with Dr. Peat on is his avoidance of choline. I typically also take about 700mgs of added choline to help convert all that extra sucrose into cholesterol. Without it, it'll end up as liver fat. I never really understood his position on choline, not to mention, he sort of contradicts himself about choline if he's recommending eggs, liver, and dairy. All of which, have more choline in them than most other foods.

Have you read this post by haidut?

supplementary-choline-raises-risk-of-blood-clots-aspirin-to-the-rescue.


As regards sugar, the better sources aren't enough for me so I must supplement with white sugar. Hypothyroidism causes wastage so I need a lot. After 2.5 years my temps are close to optimal, so I take it liver is better. Plus blood sugar headaches now well under control with the help of thiamine. Sugar to me is like coal in a furnace. It really has warmed me up. I save on electricity because I don't have to run my little fan heater all day. As far as energy production - seems there's more healing to be done in that area.

 

[Aleeri]

I think it's simple, the only reason we see studies on fruit consumption providing positive benefits is because of the additional nutrients that work with the sugar. Outside this balance, pure sugar becomes problematic. Plants evolved the ability to make fruit for us to eat for a reason, if it would be detrimental to us then there would be no reason for this evolutionary adaptation in plants.

 

[TeaRex14]

Have you read this post by haidut?

supplementary-choline-raises-risk-of-blood-clots-aspirin-to-the-rescue.


As regards sugar, the better sources aren't enough for me so I must supplement with white sugar. Hypothyroidism causes wastage so I need a lot. After 2.5 years my temps are close to optimal, so I take it liver is better. Plus blood sugar headaches now well under control with the help of thiamine. Sugar to me is like coal in a furnace. It really has warmed me up. I save on electricity because I don't have to run my little fan heater all day. As far as energy production - seems there's more healing to be done in that area.

Yeah I saw it a while back. I think it's something to note, but ultimately the conclusion was gut bacteria has a bigger impact then the supplementation of choline itself. If someone is keeping their gut clean (carrot, charcoal, low fiber, etc.) then I don't see why a choline supplement would cause massive harm in this area, especially when kept under 1 gram. I also take 650mgs of aspirin 3 times a week. And what's not mentioned in that study is serotonin increases platelet aggregation as well, which might also explain why the gut bacteria is a factor. So taking serotonin antagonists will help reduce the platelet aggregation. I agree with the sugar thing as well, most people need extra sucrose, myself included. It's just important to get extra minerals (particularly potassium) since the sugarcane doesn't have them.

 

[cellboy]

Honestly, i think it‘s more than just a lack of nutrients. Sugar is essential so a lack of it will force our bodies to adapt accordingly and that could change the whole chemistry and the way it works. Someone who‘s been on a lowcarb/keto diet for too long will not be able to retain the necessary co-factors needed for proper glucose metabolism and will lose em more easily because there‘s no reason to. They‘re literally devolving. Probably the best way to get those folks back on track is to give em some thyroid and the necessary nutrients. Also putting people into coffins rather than just burying them makes plants and their fruit less nutritious.

 

[tonto]

@AnonE
I was referring to similar issue after concussion in which brain resources are used up after impact depleting brain of nutrients and making glucose unusable by brain: Concussion And Thiamine Deficiency

What you are asking is a described condition known as Obese malnutrition: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2006/349513/abs/

 

[lampofred]

My guess is that most people have very poor glucose oxidation due to a lifetime of stress/high PUFA, so eating sugar drastically lowers ATP, which makes them feel bad, since they are reliant on glycolysis to produce energy from sugar.

And I also think even full on glucose oxidation produces less ATP than fat oxidation, but the vastly increased CO2 from glucose oxidation as opposed to fat oxidation has numerous other benefits that the pure ATP increase of fat oxidation doesn't have.