The Ultimate Irony Of Conventional Medicine

[Literally]

https://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(19)31329-0/fulltext

"Telomere length shortened significantly over the course of internship year, from 6465.1 ± 876.8 base pairs before internship to 6321.5 ± 630.6 base pairs at the end of internship (t(246) = 2.69; P=0.008). Stressful early family environments and neuroticism were significantly associated with shorter pre-internship telomere length. Longer work hours were associated with greater telomere intern telomere loss over the year (p = 0.002). Of note, the mean telomere attrition during internship year was six times greater than the typical annual attrition rate identified in a recent meta-analysis."

If telomere length is really a reliable measure of overall stress, my read of this is that it suggests student doctors in conventional training are "aged" at 6 times a typical rate. I would suggest there is no real benefit to the extreme stress methods of training, it amounts to just "Type A" personalities generationally torturing one other.

I would think the hyperstressful training conventions would also tend to make anyone who is protective of their energy levels and stress environment avoid medical school in general... which would explain a lot about how stubbornly clueless many doctors seem to be ideas of people like Ray Peat.

 

[nwo2012]

https://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(19)31329-0/fulltext

"Telomere length shortened significantly over the course of internship year, from 6465.1 ± 876.8 base pairs before internship to 6321.5 ± 630.6 base pairs at the end of internship (t(246) = 2.69; P=0.008). Stressful early family environments and neuroticism were significantly associated with shorter pre-internship telomere length. Longer work hours were associated with greater telomere intern telomere loss over the year (p = 0.002). Of note, the mean telomere attrition during internship year was six times greater than the typical annual attrition rate identified in a recent meta-analysis."

If telomere length is really a reliable measure of overall stress, my read of this is that it suggests student doctors in conventional training are "aged" at 6 times a typical rate. I would suggest there is no real benefit to the extreme stress methods of training, it amounts to just "Type A" personalities generationally torturing one other.

I would think the hyperstressful training conventions would also tend to make anyone who is protective of their energy levels and stress environment avoid medical school in general... which would explain a lot about how stubbornly clueless many doctors seem to be ideas of people like Ray Peat.

No real benefit?
You honestly think its s coincidence that historically and to this day Drs are trained this way? That they need to cram so much data and then undergo trauma based training? This is in effect what MK Ultra was all about, trauma based mind control. Less ability for them to critically analyse information, they simply act like bots. Similar training to armed forces, you know Sergeant screams wake up at 4am go on long hikes etc etc.

Thete is every benefit for TPTB to continue this methodology.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

One of the reasons why I decided not to graduate in Medicine is just that: the extreme stress and basically a behavior that is exactly opposite of that which is conducive to health. Sleepless nights and countless hours of work without much meaning aren't my cup of tea. Also, to be approved for the Medicine graduation, you need to do very well on the national exam( called "ENEM" in my country), but the information you need to know to do well on this test is absolutely not practical, that is, it has no use to most people most of time, and a lot of it is just plain wrong( semi-permeable cell membranes anyone?). So you bascially need to give up a huge amount of time to memorize useless stuff to enter a graduation that will teach you more useless stuff. Well, isn't that a nice way to brainwash people. If they don't have time or freedom to think, they will never notice how ****88 up all of this is!

No real benefit?
You honestly think its s coincidence that historically and to this day Drs are trained this way? That they need to cram so much data and then undergo trauma based training? This is in effect what MK Ultra was all about, trauma based mind control. Less ability for them to critically analyse information, they simply act like bots. Similar training to armed forces, you know Sergeant screams wake up at 4am go on long hikes etc etc.

Thete is every benefit for TPTB to continue this methodology.

Great comparison. I always found the lack of freedom and overall disrespect towards people, both of which are very common in the army, very repulsive. It actually reminds me of the environment in schools: quite toxic.

 

[milkboi]

Interesting topic. Imagine the medical world revolved around Peat's principles. The doctor's office would be outside, the consultations under the sun while sipping on some OJ.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Interesting topic. Imagine the medical world revolved around Peat's principles. The doctor's office would be outside, the consultations under the sun while sipping on some OJ.

Haha, yes, and the doctor wouldn't be a psycopath and would actually try to make the person healthy again instead of milking them through harmful drugs for their entire life.

 

[yerrag]

Makes a lot of sense. By the time doctors graduate, their brains cells have aged enough for them to be functional enough-

-to absorb new information fed to them by medical representatives (cute boys and girls) that are basically grade 1 level (follow directions) but losing the ability to question (senile level)
-to be responsive to positive reinforcement behavior training in the form of all-expenses paid symposiums in resorts around the world for following these directions faithfully, same method used to train dogs, just more candy

 

[Tarmander]

Get rid of all the regulation, the AMA etc, and medicine would be the ultimate pragmatic industry. Just look at how the doctor's patients do, survival rates, medical errors, that kind of thing. We would learn so much about the human body really fast.

 

[Jib]

This involves psychiatry as well. Many psychiatrists have a gigantic egos and benignly questioning anything they say is deeply offensive to them.

After all, they spent so much time and money so how could they have been taught wrong?

Sunk cost fallacy and huge ego describes most of the MDs out there. My friend actually had his psychiatrist recently deny that olanzapine is a dopamine antagonist, saying "Well not everything you read on the internet is true."

And got offended that he had the balls to reveal that he was aware of the term "dopamine," evidently a term only someone who's gone through medical school has the right to use.

 

[Jib]

The only appropriate response to the AMA

 

[LuMonty]

This involves psychiatry as well. Many psychiatrists have a gigantic egos and benignly questioning anything they say is deeply offensive to them.

After all, they spent so much time and money so how could they have been taught wrong?

Sunk cost fallacy and huge ego describes most of the MDs out there. My friend actually had his psychiatrist recently deny that olanzapine is a dopamine antagonist, saying "Well not everything you read on the internet is true."

And got offended that he had the balls to reveal that he was aware of the term "dopamine," evidently a term only someone who's gone through medical school has the right to use.

You can say that again. After I questioned my psychiatrist she refused to see me again. When I called (as I was charged for the not-appointments) she said the only hope for me was "in-house treatment." For those not aware, it's basically voluntary commitment. She also overprescribed any medication that helped me so I couldn't stand the side effects (i.e. turning yellow from lamotrigine). Would only prescribe risperidone : because it was all I could tolerate".

TL;DR Complete psychopath psychiatrist experience.

 

[burtlancast]

One of the principal tool used to maintain the medical monopoly, as exposed in the 1953 Fitzerald report, is to restrict as much as possible access to the medical profession: they're intentionally persecuting those aspirant doctors showing empathy and selecting those with sociopathic tendencies.

"It has been suggested that a studied effort has been made by certain groups to keep the number of students enrolling in medical schools at a low figure.
I do not assert this to be the fact and I doubt if the Committee would have jurisdiction to go into that question. This would properly belong to the States. If this is a fact, then the various State legislatures of the country should, of course, take necessary steps, consistent with the public welfare, to see that every opportunity is given to any boy or girl who possesses the necessary qualifications to be permitted to enter medical schools."

 

[Jib]

You can say that again. After I questioned my psychiatrist she refused to see me again. When I called (as I was charged for the not-appointments) she said the only hope for me was "in-house treatment." For those not aware, it's basically voluntary commitment. She also overprescribed any medication that helped me so I couldn't stand the side effects (i.e. turning yellow from lamotrigine). Would only prescribe risperidone : because it was all I could tolerate".

TL;DR Complete psychopath psychiatrist experience.

To be fair, my current psychiatrist is great.

He rolled his eyes as he explained that when he was in medical school, they were taught that "nutrition didn't really matter much" when it came to mental or physical illness. He knew it was ridiculous.

He's a rare breed, being an actual psychiatrist complete with the M.D. and everything, while still being completely open to alternative treatments and believes that many mental illnesses can benefit greatly from dietary changes and some careful supplementation. AFAIK he chose to go into therapy to help people for a lot less money; while he can prescribe any medication he wants to like any psychiatrist, it isn't like the other psychiatrists I've seen where it's literally 150 dollars for a 2 minute appointment where they just ask, "How are the meds? Ok, good, see you next time," no matter how screwed up I was on them.

He's also respected my wishes to not go on medication; I don't think he's happy to see me struggling so much, and still refusing medication, but he's never pressured me into taking anything.

Unlike many other doctors I've had in the past for "mental health." Pretty much 100% of them were absolutely beyond horrible, couldn't have cared less about me as a person, and wanted to do nothing but push meds, and more meds....awful.

There are good doctors out there but they are very few and far between, I suppose like good people in general.

I was involuntarily committed to mental hospitals several times...no fun.

tl;dr: I wish I knew about pregnenolone and Peat in general when I was in my teens. I was (and still am) extremely lonely, which causes a massive amount of stress, but my aberrant, mentally ill behavior (no doubt caused by the sleep deprivation, olanzapine, SSRI's, and anxiolytics I was on from 12 years old, and horrible diet), just made everything that much worse.

Healthy people form healthy relationships earlier in life that serve them the rest of their lives...being screwed up in your formative years really does a number on you in the long-term.

I'm going to be trying 5mg of DHEA along with some pregnenolone. I finished off my bottle recently, only a few 100mg caps left, over the past several days, and it has noticeably made me calmer. Very exciting.

My whole life, loneliness has been the core issue. It's just an overwhelming feeling of dread and anxiety and craving for human contact, some kind of connection, anything -- and the irony is that it is so extremely distressing that it inevitably wears you down and makes you less attractive to other people, and makes it even harder to form relationships.

I am hoping that some higher-dose pregnenolone supplementation may be of use to me. The past few nights I've been on it, it does seem to take the edge off, and without the nasty effects of hard liquor, which I was coming to rely on more to cope. If I can completely cut the alcohol out and get on some good supplements to take the edge off I will be very happy.

Thanks for sharing this, fantastic. I'll be sharing this with my psychiatrist as well and see what he thinks. A small difference in the world, but if he ever recommends it to another patient struggling with loneliness, that could be one more life saved in the world, or at the very least, helped. Very exciting study!

 

[Atman]

"Telomere length shortened significantly over the course of internship year, from 6465.1 ± 876.8 base pairs before internship to 6321.5 ± 630.6 base pairs at the end of internship (t(246) = 2.69; P=0.008). "

So there was a difference of around 100 base pairs, while the measurement error was around 700 base pairs and that is called significant?

 

[Literally]

@Atman correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the "measurement error" was ~700 base pairs. Those are confidence intervals describing the distributions of each group.

 

[Atman]

@Atman correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the "measurement error" was ~700 base pairs. Those are confidence intervals describing the distributions of each group.

Yes, I think you are correct, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense.

 

[cdg]

One of the principal tool used to maintain the medical monopoly, as exposed in the 1953 Fitzerald report, is to restrict as much as possible access to the medical profession: they're intentionally persecuting those aspirant doctors showing empathy and selecting those with sociopathic tendencies.

"It has been suggested that a studied effort has been made by certain groups to keep the number of students enrolling in medical schools at a low figure.
I do not assert this to be the fact and I doubt if the Committee would have jurisdiction to go into that question. This would properly belong to the States. If this is a fact, then the various State legislatures of the country should, of course, take necessary steps, consistent with the public welfare, to see that every opportunity is given to any boy or girl who possesses the necessary qualifications to be permitted to enter medical schools."

See: 1953 Fitzgerald Report - Suppressed Cancer Treatments - Share The Wealth

 

[shine]

To be fair, my current psychiatrist is great.

He rolled his eyes as he explained that when he was in medical school, they were taught that "nutrition didn't really matter much" when it came to mental or physical illness. He knew it was ridiculous.

He's a rare breed, being an actual psychiatrist complete with the M.D. and everything, while still being completely open to alternative treatments and believes that many mental illnesses can benefit greatly from dietary changes and some careful supplementation. AFAIK he chose to go into therapy to help people for a lot less money; while he can prescribe any medication he wants to like any psychiatrist, it isn't like the other psychiatrists I've seen where it's literally 150 dollars for a 2 minute appointment where they just ask, "How are the meds? Ok, good, see you next time," no matter how screwed up I was on them.

He's also respected my wishes to not go on medication; I don't think he's happy to see me struggling so much, and still refusing medication, but he's never pressured me into taking anything.

Unlike many other doctors I've had in the past for "mental health." Pretty much 100% of them were absolutely beyond horrible, couldn't have cared less about me as a person, and wanted to do nothing but push meds, and more meds....awful.

There are good doctors out there but they are very few and far between, I suppose like good people in general.

I was involuntarily committed to mental hospitals several times...no fun.

tl;dr: I wish I knew about pregnenolone and Peat in general when I was in my teens. I was (and still am) extremely lonely, which causes a massive amount of stress, but my aberrant, mentally ill behavior (no doubt caused by the sleep deprivation, olanzapine, SSRI's, and anxiolytics I was on from 12 years old, and horrible diet), just made everything that much worse.

Healthy people form healthy relationships earlier in life that serve them the rest of their lives...being screwed up in your formative years really does a number on you in the long-term.

I'm going to be trying 5mg of DHEA along with some pregnenolone. I finished off my bottle recently, only a few 100mg caps left, over the past several days, and it has noticeably made me calmer. Very exciting.

My whole life, loneliness has been the core issue. It's just an overwhelming feeling of dread and anxiety and craving for human contact, some kind of connection, anything -- and the irony is that it is so extremely distressing that it inevitably wears you down and makes you less attractive to other people, and makes it even harder to form relationships.

I am hoping that some higher-dose pregnenolone supplementation may be of use to me. The past few nights I've been on it, it does seem to take the edge off, and without the nasty effects of hard liquor, which I was coming to rely on more to cope. If I can completely cut the alcohol out and get on some good supplements to take the edge off I will be very happy.

Thanks for sharing this, fantastic. I'll be sharing this with my psychiatrist as well and see what he thinks. A small difference in the world, but if he ever recommends it to another patient struggling with loneliness, that could be one more life saved in the world, or at the very least, helped. Very exciting study!

Interesting post. 5-AR expression is reduced in people who feel lonely.
You could try increasing 5-alpha reductase to yield more allopregnanolone from the pregnenolone.
I make my own sorghum bread (sorghum contains 5-AR). Glycine also increases 5-AR. Taking B1 and B3 together also helps with 5-AR.
Why May Allopregnanolone Help Alleviate Loneliness?

Adding in the DHEA should increase conversion from pregnenolone to progesterone, which should make you very calm. DHEA is also reduced in people with major depression. DHEA in low doses is really amazing. You're on the right track, keep going!

 

[Jib]

Interesting post. 5-AR expression is reduced in people who feel lonely.
You could try increasing 5-alpha reductase to yield more allopregnanolone from the pregnenolone.
I make my own sorghum bread (sorghum contains 5-AR). Glycine also increases 5-AR. Taking B1 and B3 together also helps with 5-AR.
Why May Allopregnanolone Help Alleviate Loneliness?

Adding in the DHEA should increase conversion from pregnenolone to progesterone, which should make you very calm. DHEA is also reduced in people with major depression. DHEA in low doses is really amazing. You're on the right track, keep going!

Wow! Didn't even see this post before I made my new thread today. I've been taking 5mg DHEA for the past few days and I am absolutely shocked at the difference I feel. It is night and day.

I'm concerned that it'll be short lived, but I have been feeling like I am in paradise. And nothing's changed. Actually, a good friend of mine just moved back home after a couple week visit, so if anything, I'm even MORE isolated now, but I feel better today than I have ever in recent memory.

100mg pregnenolone every other day and 5mg DHEA daily is what I've been on so far. Though when I finished a bottle of pregnenolone recently I probably took a single 300 or 400mg dose so I am probably full up on that and could probably back off for a while, though I haven't noticed any negative effects.

I've also been taking my activated B-complex and methylfolate. The methylfolate is super high dose, 15mg, which is what I was prescribed years ago for depression after refusing other meds. It does seem to help but I'm wary about it. I take it in cycles but I seem to get very depressed when I go off of the high dose methylfolate for too long.

The DHEA is brand new though. I feel very warm, almost hot, very positive and happy, which is really, really bizarre for someone like me who is usually miserable and depressed all day with massively high anxiety. I haven't really felt any anxiety today at all which I can't say I've experienced before, maybe ever in my life.

It sounds too good to be true, so I'm wary, but low dose DHEA seems like it may be very promising. I mentioned in the other thread it's possible I only have one adrenal gland, as I was born with only one kidney, and 1 in 7 people born with one kidney also are missing an adrenal gland, so it's possible. I wonder if that could have anything to do with it.

Thanks for the advice! Will have to look into 5-AR. I've had sorghum before and may have to try that again.