The Travis Corner

[Hairfedup]

Hey Travis,
You seem to eat a lot of pineapples. What's your opinion on their serotonin content? Pineapples, plantains, and unripe bananas seem to contain quite a bit of it. They are not as bad as nuts, but to me it seems something to be cautious about, especially, if you consume larger amounts.

View attachment 8510
Bruce (Nature volume 188, page 147 (08 October 1960)

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Feldman and Lee (The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 42: OCTOBER 1985, pp 639-643.)

It hurts my heart that plantain has such high serotonin content. I don't know how to cut out such an important staple.

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

It hurts my heart that plantain has such high serotonin content. I don't know how to cut out such an important staple.

Then don't.

 

[Scenes]

So a list of @Travis approved foods is basically:

Fruit
Coconut oil
Coffee
Cocoa butter (preferably transdermal)

Have I missed heaps or are we all on board?

 

[Travis]

So a list of @Travis approved foods is basically:

Fruit
Coconut oil
Coffee
Cocoa butter (preferably transdermal)

Have I missed heaps or are we all on board?

These seem to be always good foods. Goat cheese, beef, lamb, and chocolate seem to be largely without reservations. These have a good fatty acid profile and are non-immunogenic for the most part. It really depends on the person's anticipated growth rate what type of foods they should probably be eating, but in all categories of foods you find that some are much better than others (i.e. potatoes are better than wheat, goats better than cows).

 

[Wagner83]

These seem to be always good foods. Goat cheese, beef, lamb, and chocolate seem to be largely without reservations. These have a good fatty acid profile and are non-immunogenic for the most part. It really depends on the person's anticipated growth rate what type of foods they should probably be eating, but in all categories of foods you find that some are much better than others (i.e. potatoes are better than wheat, goats better than cows).

I think the ratios of macro-nutrients, the time of the day when the foods are eaten, and possibly the level of physical activity all make a food better or worse. For example chocolate during the day can make me feel like crap. Goat cheese is problematic no matter how much I like it. Potatoes are great but eating a bit too late in the afternoon with too much or too little fat they become a burden. Beef is nice but if you drink orange juice or eat kiwi fruits it may not be a good choice at all.

 

[Amazoniac]

GLJRLJ, Rayzord commented somewhere that there was a time he couldn't stand vitamin A supplements, by the time it touched his lips he started to get a headache. He believed it was solely due to contaminants, but it's possible that part of it could be because his liver had an excess of it or couldn't metabolize properly for some reason and his cerebellum was begging him to stop. When applied topically it targets different organs:

Pediatric Research - TRANSDERMAL ABSORPTION OF VITAMIN A IN NEWBORN RAT PUPS [dagger] 1427
Transcutaneous Absorption of Vitamin A in Newborn Rats - Abstract - Biology of the Neonate 2000, Vol. 78, No. 4 - Karger Publishers

That's why the oral route should be favored. Just an opinion.

 

[Wagner83]

He believed it was solely due to contaminants

He says that quite often when one of the supplements that he recommends most of the time does not work.

 

[Ulysses]

@Travis -

Any good studies on the effects of Very Low-Fat (<10% cals from fat) diet on sex steroids like testosterone? I have read over and over again that low fat diets will lower my testosterone, and would love some to see an honest and rigorous examination of this idea, ideally taking into account what I expect to be the biggest confounder of them all, the P/S ratios of the diets. Thanks.

 

[Amazoniac]

He says that quite often when one of the supplements that he recommends most of the time does not work.

The bad sensation didn't appear right away in his firsts uses, other causes might be involved. Maybe it wasn't just a case of build up of contaminants, it shouldn't carry a great amount of them anyway; there must be certain foods out there that are more contaminated than such supplement. I don't know for sure.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

@Travis Apologies if I've missed this somewhere else, but how do you find your health at the moment? Good energy, clear head, vibrant skin, libido etc? Did it take a while for your body to adapt to this kind of sustenance, or was the change immediate?

 

[Travis]

@Travis -

Any good studies on the effects of Very Low-Fat (<10% cals from fat) diet on sex steroids like testosterone? I have read over and over again that low fat diets will lower my testosterone, and would love some to see an honest and rigorous examination of this idea, ideally taking into account what I expect to be the biggest confounder of them all, the P/S ratios of the diets. Thanks.

The two studies that I'd seen showed vegans to have higher circulating testosterone, studies which have been posted elsewhere on this forum. But I wasn't being selective at all, but had literally clicked on the first two that had come up. I'll just find them again:

Allen, N. E. "Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men." British Journal of Cancer (2000: 95.
Key, Timothy JA. "Testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, calculated free testosterone, and oestradiol in male vegans and omnivores." British Journal of Nutrition (1990​

And the second study linked above has a table indicating that the vegans had been consuming a slightly less amount of fat.

 

[Travis]

@Travis Apologies if I've missed this somewhere else, but how do you find your health at the moment? Good energy, clear head, vibrant skin, libido etc? Did it take a while for your body to adapt to this kind of sustenance, or was the change immediate?

I'm fine, how are you?

 

[raypeatclips]

The two studies that I'd seen showed vegans to have higher circulating testosterone, studies which have been posted elsewhere on this forum. But I wasn't being selective at all, but had literally clicked on the first two that had come up. I'll just find them again:

Allen, N. E. "Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men." British Journal of Cancer (2000: 95.
Key, Timothy JA. "Testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, calculated free testosterone, and oestradiol in male vegans and omnivores." British Journal of Nutrition (1990​

Of course they don't report how much fat they'd been consuming, but I'd assume it was less than the group classified 'omnivore.'

2nd link doesn't work for me.

 

[raypeatclips]

The two studies that I'd seen showed vegans to have higher circulating testosterone, studies which have been posted elsewhere on this forum. But I wasn't being selective at all, but had literally clicked on the first two that had come up. I'll just find them again:

Allen, N. E. "Hormones and diet: low insulin-like growth factor-I but normal bioavailable androgens in vegan men." British Journal of Cancer (2000: 95.
Key, Timothy JA. "Testosterone, sex hormone-binding globulin, calculated free testosterone, and oestradiol in male vegans and omnivores." British Journal of Nutrition (1990​

Of course they don't report how much fat they'd been consuming, but I'd assume it was less than the group classified 'omnivore.'

@Travis Looking at the first link, I'm trying to make sense of the numbers and would appreciate any thoughts you had. I notice the meat eaters age is 10 years older, could this account for lower T levels, and do you think the vegans T is even statistically significantly higher? 3 unadjusted doesn't seem that much higher, but I could be wrong. Also the vegans cholesterol was 20 and meat eaters 327. In a "peat world" surely the higher cholesterol would be the more desirable?

I am also not sure what it means by T levels adjusted for BMI? Surely a higher BMI would = more fat which would = more estrogen which would = less testosterone?

 

[Travis]

2nd link doesn't work for me.

Sorry about that URL copy–paste error; if you try it now it should work.

 

[Travis]

@Travis Looking at the first link, I'm trying to make sense of the numbers and would appreciate any thoughts you had. I notice the meat eaters age is 10 years older, could this account for lower T levels, and do you think the vegans T is even statistically significantly higher? 3 unadjusted doesn't seem that much higher, but I could be wrong. Also the vegans cholesterol was 20 and meat eaters 327. In a "peat world" surely the higher cholesterol would be the more desirable?

It doesn't fluctuate much—and when it does: it actually can be found to increase between the average age of the vegans (42.9·y) and that of the 'omnivores' (42.9·y). This does, of course, make their increased testosterone even more salient.

Labrie, F. "Marked decline in serum concentrations of adrenal C19 sex steroid precursors and conjugated androgen metabolites during aging." The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism (1997)

 

[Travis]

@Travis Looking at the first link, I'm trying to make sense of the numbers and would appreciate any thoughts you had. I notice the meat eaters age is 10 years older, could this account for lower T levels, and do you think the vegans T is even statistically significantly higher? 3 unadjusted doesn't seem that much higher, but I could be wrong. Also the vegans cholesterol was 20 and meat eaters 327. In a "peat world" surely the higher cholesterol would be the more desirable?

I am also not sure what it means by T levels adjusted for BMI? Surely a higher BMI would = more fat which would = more estrogen which would = less testosterone?

Well: there are also phytosterols found in plants which can stabilize the cell membrane in a manner similar to cholesterol. Since the steroids downstream of cholesterol hadn't changed much in vegans, I don't see much reason why more cholesterol would be particularly desirable—but that's not to say that I believe it to be damaging.

I wouldn't recommend eating the way most people eat, or even the way most vegans eat; I think we can all agree that most people are eating a bit too much linoleic acid. Not consuming cholesterol means the body will synthesize it from leucine, the mevalonate pathway, or perhaps even use the extremely similar phytosterols—which may not show-up on the cholesterol assay—to make the downstream steroids. The demonstrate their similarity, I'll post an image from Wikipedia which juxtaposes their respective molecular line depictions:

As you can see: the steroid ring structure is identical, differing only in 'tail'. Plants also synthesize these from isoprene units just as they synthesize the amino acid leucine for mammalian consumption.

 

[ilikecats]

@Travis thought this might fit better in this thread:

Have you ever even taken opiates? I used to do a lot of opiates when I was younger... lol drinking milk feels nothing like opiates at all. And how do you know the feelings you get of sleepiness and relaxation from it aren't due to the progesterone content or just from the fact that it's a great anti stress food due to it's substantial nutritional profile? I don't think Ray would recommend milk if it had significant effects on the opioid system, Ray has a very negative view of opiates. Also opiates are notorious for raising prolactin. Ray views keeping prolactin low as essential for achieving good health and he himself maintains a very low prolactin level while drinking a gallon of milk a day. This is more anecdotal evidence but I heard that Danny Roddy got his prolactin down to 1 ng/ml at one point and like ray he drinks a gallon of milk a day. And as a side note I think I remember reading that your favorite substance nicotine has effects on the opioid system. Its funny I actually tried nicotine for the first time like a year after quitting opioids and I felt there were definitely some opioid-esque effects to the buzz

 

[Travis]

Have you ever even taken opiates? I used to do a lot of opiates when I was younger... lol drinking milk feels nothing like opiates at all.

Who hasn't? I've taken hydrocodone before, been injected with morphine (clinical setting), and have even smoked opium in the past (once).

...lol drinking milk feels nothing like opiates at all. And how do you know the feelings you get of sleepiness and relaxation―

For one, I have never used those terms to describe it. And moreover, I haven't drank milk in ten years; all the dairy I'd ingested in recent history had been in the form of cheese. You are just . . . [how do you Americans say?] . . . 'putting words in my mouth,' so-to-speak.

...from it aren't due to the progesterone content or just from the fact that it's a great anti stress food due to it's substantial nutritional profile?

Because casein releases β-casomorphin which has been (1) found to be cleaved by enteral enzymes and subsequently absorbed, (2) been found in the cerebospinal fluid, and (3) has been proven to bind to the μ-opioid receptor in countless assays. Let me list just a few of them:

➝ Svedberg, J. "Demonstration of β-casomorphin immunoreactive materials in in vitro digests of bovine milk and in small intestine contents after bovine milk ingestion in adult humans." Peptides
➝ Zoghbi, S. "β-Casomorphin-7 regulates the secretion and expression of gastrointestinal mucins through a μ-opioid pathway." American Journal of Physiology-Gastrointestinal and [...] (2006)
➝ Brantl, V. "Novel opioid peptides derived from casein (β-casomorphins). I. Isolation from bovine casein peptone." Hoppe-Seyler s Zeitschrift für physiologische Chemie (1979)
➝ Brantl, V. "Antinociceptive potencies of β-casomorphin analogs as compared to their affinities towards μ and δ opiate receptor sites in brain and periphery." Peptides (1982)
➝ Pihlanto-Leppälä, A. "Bioactive peptides derived from bovine whey proteins: opioid and ace-inhibitory peptides." Trends in Food Science & Technology (2000)
➝ Sakaguchi, M. "Effects of systemic administration of β-casomorphin-5 on learning and memory in mice." European journal of pharmacology (2006)
➝ Sun, Z. "β-Casomorphin induces Fos-like immunoreactivity in discrete brain regions relevant to schizophrenia and autism." Autism (1999)
➝ Sokolov, O. "Autistic children display elevated urine levels of bovine casomorphin-7 immunoreactivity." Peptides (2014)
➝ Daniel, H. "Effect of casein and β-casomorphins on gastrointestinal motility in rats." The Journal of nutrition (1990)
➝ Koch, G. "Opioid activities of human β-casomorphins." Naunyn-Schmiedeberg's archives of pharmacology (1985)
➝ Sun, Z. "A peptide found in schizophrenia and autism causes behavioral changes in rats." Autism (1999)
​

Now what is your 'anti-stress chemical' you speak of? Could you be any more specific? Can you even think of anything peculiar to dairy besides the neuroactive peptides?

I don't think Ray would recommend milk if it had significant effects on the opioid system, Ray has a very negative view of opiates. Also opiates are notorious for raising prolactin.

But it does have significant effects on the opioid system, and Ray does recommend it.

And as a side note I think I remember reading that your favorite substance nicotine has effects on the opioid system.

No you didn't; you're just making that up. Nicotine works directly on the acetylcholine receptor as an agonist; if anything: it strongly opposes the effects of opiates, which lower dopamine and nerve amplitude (likewise shown in countless studies). Pure nicotine is undeniably a cholinergic stimulant, and the relaxation that some people get from smoking is due to nitric oxide.

 

[ilikecats]

@Travis Alright my bad about getting the details of your experience wrong I was going off of what I thought I remembered you writing in the past, not just that one post. And “anti stress chemical”? I said that I think milk has an anti stress effect do to its protein and glucose content maybe the calcium content. And also probably from the progesterone content. Before I increased my thyroid hormone levels many anti stress substances would leAve me feeling tired and unmotivated because I had been relying on adrenaline for energy. I cant remember what you said exactly about dairy but I thought you said It made you feel unmotivated. And I said “I think I remember” within regards to nicotine and the opioid system do you think I just made that up to say something bad about nicotine? And There’s this here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24882143/
“. The opioid-receptor antagonist naloxone (NLX) elicits NIC withdrawal after repeated NIC administration“

Now am I interpreting parts of that study wrong? Probably. Do I understand everything they’re talking about? Hell no. But why would an opiod antagonist cause nicotine withdrawal?

You should email Ray Peat about this (milk and the opiod system) I’m sure he’d appreciate the back and forth.