The Travis Corner

[Regina]

The first step is to find books that won't insult you with cartoonish illustrations. These ones below are safe:

Soderberg, Timothy. "Organic chemistry with a biological emphasis." Vol I (2016).
Soderberg, Timothy. "Organic chemistry with a biological emphasis." Vol II (2016).​

But I can't find .pdf files for many other decent books. There is a website called scribd.com that allows to you read four books at $7.99 per month. There you can find books numbering in the tens of thousands. I'm fairly certain they have Linus Pauling's book on general chemistry, as well as all the books written by Albert Szent‐Györgyi:

Pauling, Linus. "General chemistry." (1954).
Szent-Györgyi, Albert. "Bioenergetics." (1957).
​

Chemistry is no small subject, and people tend to specialize. Other areas relevant to biochemistry are photochemistry, enzyme kinetics, and genetic engineering. The genetic engineering book is a good primer for reading experimental articles dealing with nucleic acids, to know what they're doing and why. The book below is actually quite simple:

Nicholl, Desmond ST. An introduction to genetic engineering. Cambridge University Press, 2008.
Bisswanger, Hans. Enzyme kinetics: principles and methods. John Wiley & Sons, 2017.​

There's a few .pdf files you can find just scattered around the internet, but a website like scribd.com can really increase the silicon library.

They are anonymous and sporadically distributed throughout the internet. If I ever write something longer than an article I'll let you know, but so far I'm concerned with reading articles on sci‐hub. I was thinking about the Mead acid, and what function cyclooxygenase would have for a person not eating linoleic acid. There has to be a cyclooxygenase product of the Mead acid...

You'd have to crawl through my comment history. When I need to look for a previous comment, even I have to look through my own comment history. I find writing helps to consolidate any information that I've read, and keeps the articles around for quick reference. Just today: I was looking at the twenty or so articles on histamine I still had on my browser and had to summarize them somewhere. It's as if the writing turns the articles into a final synthesis, or information condensed small enough to keep in my memory for awhile.

Now I can close those articles on histamine and move on to something else.

I think one of these days I ought to buy some tryptophan, histamine, and tyrosine to be certain what the neurotransmitters feel like. I know both ingested tryptophan and hisitadine turn into their corresponding neurotransmitters in the brain. Levodopa is usually given as precursor to dopamine, but I think tyrosine should work as well.

This week I have spinach, kale, coconuts, almonds, dates, pineapples, coffee, and cigarettes. I have been experimenting with eggs, and have determined that the protein is safe. However, linoleic acid represents roughly 20% of the fatty acids; this is no good. I feel there is also a subtle serotonin spike from the high tryptophan, something which doesn't seem productive. Almonds only have about 3% linoleic acid (as a fraction of total fatty acids) and what I consider a better amino acid ratio; tryptophan and methionine are the limiting amino acids.

I do remember getting that feeling from eating cooked kidney beans in a can a few years ago, something which had been lying around. I think cooking may increase amino acid absorption leading to a serotonin spike in high‐tryptophan foods. This may not be noticeable in people always eating cooked foods.

Serotonin, it appears to me, can make a person both happy but sort‐of apathetic. It's almost like I stopped caring about certain things, and had become almost unprincipled and mentally lazy (although not physically lazy). Serotonin now makes me think of Hilary Clinton for some reason, but I should buy some tryptophan to confirm the effect. It would be nice to be able to map serotonin, histamine, and dopamine onto sensations—and perceptions—to be more aware of the neurological effects from food.

Travis, your personal experience with serotonin is well described. It is difficult to tell people (general acquaintances and/or aikido partners) that serotonin is not the happy hormone. Your description points to how its effects distort interpersonal relationships. "Happy" with apathy, unprincipled mental laziness. It makes it almost impossible to partner (aikido) with people in this state. Very very weird.
I think Ray Peat's response in this interview describes the sort of frozen state:
"Having your own mind, a critical and constructive ability, makes you aware of possibilities and threats. The “go along to get along” attitude represents a denial of your mentality. Recognizing the reasons for the evils and obstacles is an intrinsic part of moving toward your goals. Without a realistic view of where you are, you can’t expect to go anywhere."

 

[Travis]

I've heard of some individuals using mucuna pruriens as a source of levodopa, but my impression was that this was not available centrally without a dopa decarboxylase inhibitor. Not sure if there are any benefits to increasing peripheral levels of dopamine...

Haidut has mentioned light exposure and B6 as being relevant to the formation of dopamine from tyrosine.

Tyrosine administration enhances dopamine synthesis and release in light-activated rat retina.
Light stimulates tyrosine hydroxylase activity and dopamine synthesis in retinal amacrine neurons.

There was also a common belief one of the dopamine producing enzymes in the brain—perhaps the one which hydroxylates—was normally saturated; it had been said—and I think by Fernstrom—that it was already operating at it's maximum velocity, or that tyrosine naturally existed in concentrations around the enzyme's Vmax (the kinetic parameter).

But those Fernstrom studiew were from the '70s and '80s. Listen to what Fernstrom says now (or what he had said circa 2007):

'The idea that precursor (Tyr) concentrations might directly influence the rate of Tyr hydroxylation and catecholamine production did not seem promising, because published values for the substrate Km were below normal brain Tyr concentrations [i.e. the enzyme was thought to be close to substrate saturation; see (2)]. However, a study then demonstrated that raising brain Tyr concentrations (by injecting the amino acid) could rapidly stimulate DOPA synthesis in rat brain (7). This finding suggested that Tyr concentrations in the vicinity of TH must be well below saturation levels. A subsequent refinement of this observation was that at least in DA neurons neuronal activation was required to observe a precursor-linked stimulation of DA synthesis. For example, Tyr administration could stimulate DA synthesis in the corpus striatum (the site of a major projection of terminals from DA cell bodies in the substantia nigra), but pretreatment of animals with a DA receptor antagonist to activate the neurons was required (8).' ―Fernstrom​

'Tyrosine concentrations in the brain are influenced by protein ingested not only in a single meal. They are also affected when the protein content of the diet is modified over several days or more (16,17). Because the magnitude of difference between brain Tyr concentrations in rats chronically ingesting different levels of dietary protein was observed to be 2-fold or more and thus similar to that influencing DOPA synthesis when rats ingest a single, protein-containing meal, we evaluated if DOPA synthesis would be predictably influenced by chronic changes in dietary protein content (14 d). Because earlier studies indicated the range of dietary protein contents over which brain Tyr concentrations changed markedly to be 0–10% (percent diet by weight), we examined a range of 2–20%. Groups of rats consumed ad libitum for 14 d isocaloric diets containing 2, 5, 10, or 20% casein and were killed 1.5 h into the dark period on the last day, a time of day when they would normally be eating. In this study, because the retina was examined, lights were turned on 30 min into the dark period to allow retinal DA neurons to become activated (and thus responsive to differences in Tyr levels). Hydroxybenzylhydrazine was administered 30 min later and the rats were killed after an additional 30 min (18). First, retinal Tyr concentrations increased 4-fold between 2 and 10% protein and retinal DOPA synthesis more than doubled (Table 3). Hence, retinal Tyr levels and DOPA synthesis varied with dietary protein content chronically as well as acutely. In addition, when we measured these same variables in hypothalamus, a portion of the brain intimately involved in food-intake regulation, we observed effects that were similar to those in retina. That is, hypothalamic Tyr concentrations rose significantly (about double) between 2 and 10% protein and DOPA synthesis rose ∼50% over this range of protein intakes (Table 3).' ―Fernstrom​

So it appears that the enzyme is not saturated in rats, and the belief that it was had apparently stemmed from unrealistic published enzyme kinetic parameters. Tyrosine appears to follow simple Fernstrom‐like kinetics (in the rat at least), making you wonder if Parkinson's patients shouldn't simply be given tyrosine (indeed, this could largely circumvent to production of the dangerous 3‐methoxytyramine.)

Fernstrom, John D. "Tyrosine, phenylalanine, and catecholamine synthesis and function in the brain." The Journal of nutrition (2007)​

 

[Travis]

Travis, your personal experience with serotonin is well described. It is difficult to tell people (general acquaintances and/or aikido partners) that serotonin is not the happy hormone. Your description points to how its effects distort interpersonal relationships. "Happy" with apathy, unprincipled mental laziness. It makes it almost impossible to partner (aikido) with people in this state. Very very weird.

You think I was right? Is this what serotonin feels like?

I still need to take some tryptophan one of these days, as an experiment. Fernstrom lets us know how serotonin is synthesized from tryptophan. What is amazing is how nearly perfect the line is for the Fernstrom Ratio: W/Σ(T+F+V+L+I) :

'These data indicate that small doses of tryptophan, which do not cause plasma or brain tryptophan concentrations to exceed their normal daily peaks and which do not influence plasma concentrations of other amino acids, produce significant elevations in brain serotonin.' ―Fernstrom​

{The amino acid letter 'P' has actually been designated to represent proline; Fernstom uses this letter to represent phenylalanine↑.}
​

'If, as seems likely, physiological changes in plasma tryptophan concentrations can cause parallel changes in brain serotonin synthesis, the factors that control plasma tryptophan levels must be considered, for they represent potentially important determinants of the activity of a population of central nervous system neurons.' ―Fernstrom​

Fernstrom had also shown that tyrosine lowers prolactin, highly suggesting that it converts to dopamine. The idea that tyrosine hydroxylase is normally saturated appears to be incorrect, although it does appear to be closer to its saturation point than tryptophan hydroxylase.

Fernstrom, John D. "Brain serotonin content: physiological regulation by plasma neutral amino acids." Science (1972)
Fernstrom, John D. "Tyrosine administration decreases serum prolactin levels in chronically reserpinized rats." Life sciences (1979)
​

 

[Travis]

Have you ever read an anesthesiology text book, and if so does it contradict most of what Ray talks about?

No, but I've read this.* An anesthesiology book sounds dreadful to read.

I found a large textbook, and it is done loading.† This is much better than the other, smaller one, but still reads sort of like a technical guide for becoming a paramedic. But there does appear much useful information in this large anesthesiology text—should gbolduev ever come back.

[*] Pauling, Linus. "A Molecular Theory of General Anesthesia: Anesthesia is attributed to the formation in the brain of minute hydrate crystals of the clathrate type." Science (1961)
[†] Morgan, G. Edward. Clinical anesthesiology. Vol. 1. New York: McGraw-hill, 2002.​

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

While not yet a fan girl, I do have a lot of respect for Travis's high quality posting.

I found some of the books he mentioned on the first page and a few others

warning: general chemistry is huge almost 1,000 pages

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

3 albert szent-gyorgyi books

 

[Travis]

3 albert szent-gyorgyi books

How do you find these things?

I knew Bioenergics had a free .pdf floating around somewhere, but the others I had to read on scribd.com. The Szent‐Györgyi books are perhaps the most enjoyable biochemistry books, and make for light reading. I think he's most certainly correct about methylglyoxal, a molecule which reverses proliferation ostensibly by antagonizing polyamines—somehow.

Do you think you can find this book? I had to order a hard copy from Ebay.com since I haven't seen it available anywhere online:

Ling, Gilbert. "A Physical Theory of the Living State: The Association-Induction Hypothesis." Blaisdell (1963)​

 

[peep]

@Travis I do have IBD (ulcerative colitis) and did use tryptophane multiple times. As well as 5-htp.
On here I did always get told Serotonin is the bad guy in "gut" issues and that its needed to kept low. (People taking niacinamide cryptoheptadine etc..)
But I just dont think that Serotonin or tryptophane is always bad. And tryptophane is not only Serotonin. Melatonin for example is used and can be very helpful for UC too.

Both (5htp and tryptophane) actually did pretty good for me in my experiences.

Btw ever had a look on IBD?

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

How do you find these things?

I knew Bioenergics had a free .pdf floating around somewhere, but the others I had to read on scribd.com. The Szent‐Györgyi books are perhaps the most enjoyable biochemistry books, and make for light reading. I think he's most certainly correct about methylglyoxal, a molecule which reverses proliferation ostensibly by antagonizing polyamines—somehow.

Do you think you can find this book? I had to order a hard copy from Ebay.com since I haven't seen it available anywhere online:

Ling, Gilbert. "A Physical Theory of the Living State: The Association-Induction Hypothesis." Blaisdell (1963)​

Here you go buddy click 'open download' then 'get' https://libgen.pw/item/detail/id/1551129?id=1551129

or just go here http://dlx.b-ok.org/genesis/1551000/9966282919258e8a0fd70fedbff95445/_as/[Gilbert_Ling]_A_Physical_Theory_of_the_Living_Sta(b-ok.org).pdf

edit: I don't know why but this book is incredibly slow to load. Never seen it like this

 

[Travis]

Here you go buddy click 'open download' then 'get' https://libgen.pw/item/detail/id/1551129?id=1551129

or just go here http://dlx.b-ok.org/genesis/1551000/9966282919258e8a0fd70fedbff95445/_as/[Gilbert_Ling]_A_Physical_Theory_of_the_Living_Sta(b-ok.org).pdf

edit: I don't know why but this book is incredibly slow to load. Never seen it like this

I forgot about that. That is like the sci‐hub's cousin—the librarian cousin which fetches books instead of articles.

@Travis I do have IBD (ulcerative colitis) and did use tryptophane multiple times. As well as 5-htp.
On here I did always get told Serotonin is the bad guy in "gut" issues and that its needed to kept low. (People taking niacinamide cryptoheptadine etc..)
But I just dont think that Serotonin or tryptophane is always bad. And tryptophane is not only Serotonin. Melatonin for example is used and can be very helpful for UC too.

Both (5htp and tryptophane) actually did pretty good for me in my experiences.

Btw ever had a look on IBD?

I think you're right. I think that too low serotonin can create an angry person, and perhaps low‐protein celiacs could be suffering from low serotonin in addition to high histamine. Gamma‐interferon activates tryptophan dioxygenase, which can lower serum trypophan to 50% its original value. So under immune distress—either from immunogenic food peptides or certain pathogens—a person can have both low tryptophan and high histamine (those on a low‐protein diet at least). But Western people eating grains, and perhaps even celiacs, probably generally tend to eat enough protein to partially‐counteract the low tryptophan effects.

But eating cooked and refined foods leads to serotonin spikes. Insulin has been shown to do this, which Fernstrom explains through protein synthesis: Apparently insulin causes the cell to uptake all amino acids besides tryptophan, which exists bound to serum albumin. The tryptophan‐bound albumin still releases trypophan to the brain after it's squeezed in the brain microcirculatory region (blood–brain barrier). This has been proven to occur after an injection of radio‐labeled tryptophan adsorbed onto serum albumin followed by decapitation fifteen seconds afterwords. There was a considerable first‐pass uptake with albumin‐bound tryptophan.

But what is certain is that it does happen. Injections in insulin lead to measurable tryptophan spikes. I think perhaps serotonin spikes could be addictive and could play a role in alcohol consumption, soda drinking, and frequent snacking. I'm opting for slow‐release amino acids from raw foods; it's easier for me to maintain concentration in the absence of fluctuating serotonin or histamine levels.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

I got one or two other sources. Let me know if there's anything else you can't find

 

[RobertJM]

I tried the tryptophan depletiom diet once, and it made me angry and short tempered.

5HTP, acutely, I always find quite euphoric. But after a couple of days it makes me feel angry.

Tryptophan, acutely, makes me feel loopy, sleepy, smiley and kind of dumb. After a couple of days, chronic use makes me feel like I am developing Alzheimer's.

Random question for Travis: Do you eat coconuts everyday? Are they not tough and arduous to eat?

 

[Such_Saturation]

It would be nice to be able to map serotonin, histamine, and dopamine onto sensations—and perceptions—to be more aware of the neurological effects from food.

Yes I think this is very necessary. I wish every scientist would do this.

 

[Mito]

I have been experimenting with eggs, and have determined that the protein is safe. However, linoleic acid represents roughly 20% of the fatty acids; this is no good.

I suppose it depends on what the chicken eats but some egg packaging lists PUFA as low as 10% of fatty acids. It appears to vary between 0.5 to 1 gram PUFA per egg. SELFNutritiondata lists egg yolks just under 15% PUFA.

Almonds only have about 3% linoleic acid (as a fraction of total fatty acids)

Almonds appear to be worse than egg yolks. They are almost 25% PUFA.

 

[Travis]

I suppose it depends on what the chicken eats but some egg packaging lists PUFA as low as 10% of fatty acids. It appears to vary between 0.5 to 1 gram PUFA per egg. SELFNutritiondata lists egg yolks just under 15% PUFA.

Almonds appear to be worse than egg yolks. They are almost 25% PUFA.
View attachment 7730

By 3% I meant percent linoleic acid over total fatty acids, both in almonds and in eggs. I concentrate on linoleic acid in particular because it's a unique unsaturated fatty acid, able to form arachidonic acid and then prostaglandins. The other polyunsaturated fatty acids don't have such strong hormonal effects.

I tried the tryptophan depletiom diet once, and it made me angry and short tempered.

5HTP, acutely, I always find quite euphoric. But after a couple of days it makes me feel angry.

Tryptophan, acutely, makes me feel loopy, sleepy, smiley and kind of dumb. After a couple of days, chronic use makes me feel like I am developing Alzheimer's.

Random question for Travis: Do you eat coconuts everyday? Are they not tough and arduous to eat?

That's similar to my impression of serotonin. I think this neurotransmitter just needs to be kept in range: not too low, and not too high. Insulin seems to increase brain levels more than protein; most proteins actually lower the tryptophan ratio, probably making soda the thing which would raise it the most (raises insulin and has zero competing amino acids).

I have three coconuts but I also have almonds. I don't eat them everyday since they are unreliable where I buy them, but are easy to eat when shredded. Shredding a coconut is tedious, but it's a good forearm workout. Coconuts are one food with essentially zero linoleic acid, and very nearly zero total polyunsaturated fatty acids.

 

[Mito]

By 3% I meant percent linoleic acid over total fatty acids, both in almonds and in eggs.

For almonds they list linoleic acid (18:2 (n-6)) as 11,451 mg (out of 47 g total fat) or about 25%.

 

[Travis]

For almonds they list linoleic acid (18:2 (n-6)) as 11,451 mg (out of 47 g total fat) or about 25%.
View attachment 7734

This certainly does appear to be the case. Almonds can range from 8% (Genco, Spain cultivar*) to as high as 30.73% (Fresno, California 2004–2005†) as expressed as a percentage of total fatty acids.

Although high this is still roughly half that found in walnuts, pine nuts, and brazil nuts.

I think I could have confounded the linoleic acid content of peanuts with almonds. This is a chart that I've looked at in the past:

click to embiggen​

Peanuts do appear low. But peanuts, as it turns out, are not at all consistent. There is a considerable variation in peanuts, ranging from two percent to over thirty:

'Table 1 reports the fatty acid compositions of lipid extracts from 151 Runner-type peanut cultivars collected in 2005 and 2006. Palmitic acid (C16:0) ranged from 5.31% to 11.49%; stearic acid (C18:0), 1.46% to 4.76%; oleic acid (C18:1, ω−9), 44.78% to 82.17%; linoleic acid (C18:2, ω−6), 2.85% to 33.92%; arachidic acid (C20:0), 0.87% to 2.18%; gondoic acid (C20:1, ω−9), 1.09% to 3.13%; behenic acid (C22:0), 0.73% to 4.37%; and lignoceric acid (C24:0), 0.41% to 2.12%.' ―Shin‡​

So not only had I looked up peanuts after I had come across some free ones, I had found a determination at the low‐end of the linoleic acid range; there is little reason to even believe the peanuts I was eating were that low—they were actually very likely higher.

And since likely over 99% of almonds in my country come from California, I have to assume that they are ~25% linoleic acid as a percentage of total oil. I'll have to reconsider my almond consumption.

Thanks for letting me know. I think I knew this in the past, but had mentally confounded the almond with the peanut at some point—and not even peanuts are normally that low. The only linoleate‐safe nuts appear to be macadamias and coconuts.

But my memory didn't completely σλιτ the bed when it came to the limiting amino acids:

Methionine being the first limiting amino acid, and tryptophan the third.* Lysine (the second limiting) can also form a polyamine through ornithine decarboxylase, but ornithine decarboxylase has about fivefold greater affinity for ornithine—an amino acid which can be derived from either methionine or arginine, but mostly methionine.

And methionine, of course, can also become homocysteine.

[*] García-López, Carlos. "Major fatty acid composition of 19 almond cultivars of different origins." Journal of agricultural and food chemistry (1996)
[†] Sathe, S. K. "Fatty acid composition of California grown almonds." Journal of food science (2008).
[‡] Shin, Eui-Cheol. "Chemometric approach to fatty acid profiles in Runner-type peanut cultivars by principal component analysis (PCA)." Food chemistry (2010)​

 

[Amazoniac]

Travisord, another goal of this thread is to make the words "Dear Travis," exfoliate your senses.

Do you take notes as you learn new stuff (Evernote, etc)?

 

[Travis]

Travisord, another goal of this thread is to make the words "Dear Travis," exfoliate your senses.

Did you hear that linoleic acid in peanuts can range tenfold?



If choosey moms choose JIF™, then choosier moms choose this.

 

[Amazoniac]

Franklin said:
"If you grow soybeans in the tropics, soy oil then is practically as saturated as butter."

If choosey moms choose JIF™, then choosier moms choose this.

Total Fat - 14g
Saturated Fat - 3g​

As shady as the local labels here. Perhaps a typo: 13g.