The Travis Corner

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Amazoniac

Amazoniac

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Do you remember the data on bacteria and polyamine production? Only some strains of bacteria can produce polyamines, and only a few select others are capable of cleaving proline peptide bonds. You'd think the intestinal biome would matter a great deal, but even more in those consuming a high protein diet.

There's an interesting study out there showing boiled meat to be a greater risk factor for colon cancer than grilled. This apparently places Koch's diamines higher than 'polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons' as a cause, what are commonly thought to be the greatest risk factor. Obviously, boiled meat has no PAHs but would likely have more linoleic acid and different diamine kinetics. Ray Peat had mentioned that linoleic acid becomes conjugated linoleic acid upon grilling, or course destroying its prostaglandin potential in the process.
Thanks for the link.
It indeed points Koch's amines as culprits but what is strange is that I expected grilled meat to be a better substrate than boiled. Unfortunately the angelords combined pork with red meat, I think if red meat was isolated it would be better boiled than grilled. I'm supposing that by boiled they meant stewed, if that's the case beef fat should be stable during cooking; the flesh comes out nearly melting, which should facilitate digestion; and it incorporate spices that prevent microbial action, contrary to grilled meat which is usually just salt on the surface AllahI mean, à la the Nusr'et guy that insist on hitting the knife's blade before cutting. I mentioned before how honing a knife before almost every cut adds steel particles to the food, it's a bad habit. But I digest. Pork fat should be damaged after prolonged cooking.
People that really enjoy and crave meat tend to prefer it lightly browned, almost rare. Otherwise they claim that it destroys the meat. This preference can be interpreted as a sign of proper meat digestion. However the same people tend to consume meats in excess.

Polyamine generation from microbial action is avoided by keeping the intestines moving fast, which is why I posted those previous links mentioning that tend to occur once carbs are exhausted. There won't be too much time for putrefaction and those gurus that generate it only appear if they're allowed to, after the environment became favorable. Otherwise ownivI mean, omnivores would be in pretty bad shape, which doesn't happen. It's expected that, as people get older and weaker, digestion becomes impaired and the person is forced to reduce meat intake despite being blossomtheadorable able to extract less and in theory needing more to make up for it. At some point the negatives become greater than the positives, and some people, especially men, aren't in tune with these variances and never back off or change ways when needed, and this is when the situation gets out of control. #emasculatedfood

Can you puncture my brain and infuse knowledge on the reason why you prefer that font?
I find it weak for some reason, similar to a light handwritting that angels attribute to unsureness, which is in dissonance with your holystic content.
What's the name of that traditional one from older studies? The one that makes you feel safe because you associate them with a period of actual curiosity from the authors?
Perhaps one day I'll learn from you to not hide myself behind the references.

Side note: charliezord installed Garamond just because of narouz.
 
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Travis

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Thanks for the link.
I mentioned before how honing a knife before almost every cut adds steel particles to the food, it's a bad habit.
Interesting thought, and surely must be true. You'd have to imagine that sushi chefs would be especially good contributors to micron‐sized metal particles because they go from the water stone straight to the fish. In addition, Japanese knives are generally made with the harder carbon steel.

The French steel is softer, having a lower carbon content, yet would still tend to produce particles as they hone using the honing steel.

The leather strop does the reverse: this removes metallic particles, smoothes the metal, and aligns to blade's edge. I had always made sure to strop by knives and wash them after sharpening them with the water stone.

I read that article on A2 casomorphins and found it convincing. I noticed that they used a different numbering scheme than the sequence found on uniprot.org, and that the β-casomorphin sequence itself is no different that found in A1 casein. An amino acid further up the sequence accounts for the difference, actually leading to a longer and more inactive β-casomorphin fragment in A2 milk. This has reduced opiate activity, as you might expect, as β-casomorphin-5 and β-casomorphin-7 are the most powerful. Although β-casomorphin-11 has been found in the cerebospinal fluid, this is less likely to cross the blood–brain barrier and is less potent when it does.

So are you going to switch to goat milk and goat cheese like any logical person should?

Goat cheese also has a more favourable fatty acid profile, the importance of which will not be lost on Peatarians. Goat cheese also has reduced IGF-1 because recombinant bovine growth hormone is generally not used on non-bovines.
 
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Amazoniac

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Interesting thought, and surely must be true. You'd have to imagine that sushi chefs would be especially good contributors to micron‐sized metal particles because they go from the water stone straight to the fish. In addition, Japanese knives are generally made with the harder carbon steel.

The French steel is softer, having a lower carbon content, yet would still tend to produce particles as they hone using the honing steel.

The leather strop does the reverse: this removes metallic particles, smoothes the metal, and aligns to blade's edge. I had always made sure to strop by knives and wash them after sharpening them with the water stone.

I read that article on A2 casomorphins and found it convincing. I noticed that they used a different numbering scheme than the sequence found on uniprot.org, and that the β-casomorphin sequence itself is no different that found in A1 casein. An amino acid further up the sequence accounts for the difference, actually leading to a longer and more inactive β-casomorphin fragment in A2 milk. This has reduced opiate activity, as you might expect, as β-casomorphin-5 and β-casomorphin-7 are the most powerful. Although β-casomorphin-11 has been found in the cerebospinal fluid, this is less likely to cross the blood–brain barrier and is less potent when it does.

So are you going to switch to goat milk and goat cheese like any logical person should?

Goat cheese also has a more favourable fatty acid profile, the importance of which will not be lost on Peatarians. Goat cheese also has reduced IGF-1 because recombinant bovine growth hormone is generally not used on non-bovines.
It happens with kitchen sponges as well. People use objects according to the best feel. Holding sponges through the rough side doesn't feel right and gurus end up cleaning the utensils with the rough side, which does the same as the honing steel. If you pass a white cloth later you'll notice that it becomes grey. It shouldn't be a coincidence that the rough side of the sponge is darker. :ss

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259495733_Fatty_acid_profile_of_milk_-_A_review
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Fatty-acids-profile-in-goat-sheep-and-cow-milk_259495733

I just realized that it's a lot of difference in terms of linoleic acid. This difference can be a result of cow exploitation and bad feed, related to having a growth hormone to the species.

"In cow, goat, and sheep, milk PUFAs account for as little as ~3% of all fatty acids (8); however, Strzałkowska et al. (34) and Mayer and Fiechter (18) found more than 4% of PUFA in goat milk, and Cieślak et al. (6) found even more than 21% of PUFAs in milk of sheep fed rapeseeds."

And even within that possibility, dairy fat from cows had more palmitic and stearic acid, which are structural.

What do you think?​

I wonder if it's good to consume a bit of dairy fat along with coconut fat since you mentioned that there is competition between omega 3 and 6, and coconut fat has no omega 3. Same for cocoa butter.

When Did This Forum Start Complaining About The PUFA In Coconut Oil ?
Apparently tyw doesn't think so:
Omega-3 Fatty Acids Fight Inflammation Via Cannabinoids ?

I also wonder why you never mentioned buffalos. Is it because they're black?
 
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Travis

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It happens with kitchen sponges as well. People use objects according to the best feel. Holding sponges through the rough side doesn't feel right and gurus end up cleaning the utensils with the rough side, which does the same as the honing steel. If you pass a white cloth later you'll notice that it becomes grey. It shouldn't be a coincidence that the rough side of the sponge is darker. :ss
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/259495733_Fatty_acid_profile_of_milk_-_A_review
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Fatty-acids-profile-in-goat-sheep-and-cow-milk_259495733

I just realized that it's a lot of difference in terms of linoleic acid. This difference can be a result of cow exploitation and bad feed, related to having a growth hormone to the species.

"In cow, goat, and sheep, milk PUFAs account for as little as ~3% of all fatty acids (8); however, Strzałkowska et al. (34) and Mayer and Fiechter (18) found more than 4% of PUFA in goat milk, and Cieślak et al. (6) found even more than 21% of PUFAs in milk of sheep fed rapeseeds."

And even within that possibility, dairy fat from cows had more palmitic and stearic acid, which are structural.

What do you think?

I wonder if it's good to consume a bit of dairy fat along with coconut fat since you mentioned that there is competition between omega 3 and 6, and coconut fat has no omega 3. Same for cocoa butter.

When Did This Forum Start Complaining About The PUFA In Coconut Oil ?
Apparently tyw doesn't think so:
Omega-3 Fatty Acids Fight Inflammation Via Cannabinoids ?

I also wonder why you never mentioned buffalos. Is it because they're black?
If you buy a can of Aroy D coconut milk from the Asian store, it will separate in the fridge yielding ~¹⁄₂ cream and ~¹⁄₂ water. Inverting the can and opening from the bottom allows a person to drain the worthless water from the can leaving only thick coconut cream comprising coconut triglycerides and microscopic coconut particles. This is stuff is awesome, and goes good with fruit. Asians actually cook with coconut milk, but I find things always better with the water removed—especially piña coladas.

I really need to read about the cannabinoids. One thing I had noticed a few years ago was that THC is a constitutional isomer of progesterone, both having the formula C₂₁H₃₀O₂. This of course means little when it comes to structure and function, and the arrangement is everything, but its nonetheless a (trivial) fact.

So what are the endogenous ligands for the cannabinoid receptors? Could it be prostaglandin I₂? or could it be vitamin D? Since the exorphins work on the endogenous enkephalin receptors, you'd probably have to think that we have 'cannabinoid receptors' not for THC but for something else.

Here we go: Sugiura, Takayuki. "Evidence That the Cannabinoid CB1 Receptor Is a 2-Arachidonoylglycerol Receptor Structure-Activity Relationship of 2-Arachidonoylglycerol, Ether-linked Analogues, and Related Compounds." Journal of Biological Chemistry (1999)

Since this was printed in the no‐nonsense Journal of Biological Chemistry, I think we should assume the following to be highly factual:

'It is well known that Δ⁹-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ⁹-THC), a psychoactive ingredient of marijuana, possesses a variety of pharmacological activities in vitro and in vivo,' ―Sugiura

He found two ligands of the cannabinoid receptor, but one of them has a much lower affinity and exists in much lower concentrations in the brain. I think we can ignore anandamide, especially considering the evidence that it forms only postmortem.

'Indeed, the level of arachidonoylglycerol in the brain was found to be 800 times higher than that of anandamide present in the same tissue (7, 20).' ―Sugiura

This is a lipid comprising arachidoninic acid bound to glycerol in the sn‐2 position comprising what appears to be a triglyceride remnant.

2-AG.png


When acting on the neurons, 2-arachidonoylglycerol releases causes a repartitioning of calcium ions:

'Moreover, in recent studies, we found that 2-arachidonoylglycerol induces a rapid, transient elevation of intracellular free Ca²⁺ concentration ([Ca²⁺]) through a cannabinoid CB1 receptor-dependent mechanism and proposed that the cannabinoid CB1 receptor is originally a 2-arachidonoylglycerol receptor (22, 23).' ―Sugiura

This is highly selective, as the following quotes indicate. Sugiura had synthsized analogous lipids of oleic and palmitic acids, among others, and found them to have very little affinity. Also, arachidonic acid in the sn‐1 and sn‐3 positions of the glycerol backbone had very little effect. The only lipid which had comparable activity was eicosapentaenoic acid in the sn‐2 position.

'We also found that 1-arachidonoylglycerol and 3-arachidonoylglycerol, isomers of 2-arachidonoylglycerol, exhibited substantial activities (Fig. 2, B and C), although their activities were apparently lower than that of 2-arachidonoylglycerol. We confirmed that free arachidonic acid failed to induce a similar response, even at high concentrations (Fig. 2D).' ―Sugiura

'We also found that saturated or monoenoic 2-monoacylglycerols, such as 2-palmitoylglycerol (data not shown) and 2-oleoylglycerol (Fig. 2N), were inactive. The activities of 2-linoleoylglycerol (Fig. 2O) and 2-γ-linolenoylglycerol (Fig. 2P) were also very low, suggesting that the acyl moiety of 2-arachidonoylglycerol is strictly recognized by the receptor.' ―Sugiura

'Glycerol is the most suitable head group, and the 2-isomer is preferable over the 1(3)-isomer. As for the fatty acyl moiety, arachidonic acid is the most preferred fatty acid constituent of monoacylglycerols, among those examined, although the activity of eicosatrienoic acid (n-9)-containing species was almost comparable to that of arachidonic acid-containing species' ―Sugiura
This effect was blocked by cannabinoids, and only cannabinoids. None of the other neurotransmitters he had tested could block 2-arachidonoylglycerol.

'As summarized in Table I, the cell pretreatment with various cannabinoid receptor agonists, such as D9 -THC, HU-210, WIN55212–2, and CP55940, completely blocked the response induced by 2-arachidonoylglycerol, probably through the desensitization of the receptor molecule. On the other hand, cell pretreatment with various compounds other than cannabinoid receptor agonists did not affect the response induced by 2-arachidonoylglycerol.' ―Sugiura

So I am convinced. This means that linoleic acid can affect the brain directly through the formation of arachidonic acid, a molecule which forms part of the endogenous cannabinoid 2-arachidonoylglycerol. What follows are interesting excerpts from the summary which put the function of 2-arachidonoylglycerol into perspective:

'It is becoming evident that the cannabinoid receptor-endogenous ligand system plays important physiological roles in the nervous system. Herkenham (35) reported that whole brain cannabinoid receptor density is similar to the whole brain densities of receptors for amino acid transmitters, such as glutamic acid and GABA; this observation leads us to postulate that the endogenous cannabinoid receptor ligand(s) is also a common molecule and abundantly present in the brain, like glutamic acid and GABA. 2-Arachidonoylglycerol, but not anandamide, meets this requirement' ―Sugiura

'The most striking and noticeable issue concerning 2-arachidonoylglycerol is that this unique lipid molecule links enhanced inositol phospholipid metabolism in stimulated neuronal cells with the function of cannabinoid receptors expressed mainly on presynaptic membranes (35, 41, 42). As described previously, 2-arachidonoylglycerol is formed in neuronal cells upon stimulation (25, 28) and in a brain homogenate upon the addition of Ca²⁺ (31), and the cannabinoid CB1 receptor is known to participate in the attenuation of neurotransmission (41, 42). Such a linkage should be effective in calming some neurons after excitation, which leads to negative feedback control of neurotransmission in some synapses in which the cannabinoid CB1/2-arachidonoylglycerol receptor is present. Similar negative feedback control mechanism may operate in the case of adenosine, which is assumed to be derived principally from ATP. In any case, the cannabinoid CB1/2-arachidonoylglycerol receptor-dependent negative feedback control system appears to be of great physiological significance, because sustained activation of neuronal cells is known to cause cell exhaustion and may lead to neuronal cell death. In relation to this, we recently found that 2-arachidonoylglycerol suppresses the activation of differentiated NG108–15 cells upon depolarization (29).' ―Sugiura

This is interesting, and makes you wonder what previously occupies the sn‐1 and sn‐3 positions of the triglyceride before it's cleaved. Since this is involved in Ca²⁺ release, I'm tempted to say that inositol triphosphate commonly occupies the sn‐3 position of the triglyceride —perhaps with something trivial like myristate found at sn‐1. He lists other interesting articles in his footnotes which may tell us this, although the one I had looked at didn't say . . . but said this:

'We detected 3.3 nmol of arachidonoylglycerol [16], and Stella et al. [21] detected 4.0 nmol/g tissue of 2-arachidonoylglycerol in rat brain.' ―Kondo

These are considerable levels, representing 10× the minimum response limit detected by Sugiura.

'The results obtained here provided strong evidence that the structure of 2-arachidonoylglycerol is strictly recognized by the cannabinoid CB1 receptor.' ―Sugiura

So does linoleic acid restriction and/or fish consumption significantly change the arachidonic acid concentration of brain triglycerides? Do people keep buying canola oil not because they don't know any better, but because they are literally dazed and confused by this endogenous opiate formed from said oil (lol)?

This is interesting stuff, and could be another reason to watch dietary lipid ratios. Also, this gives us another legal food drug besides β-casomorphin-7 that we could sell out of trenchcoats, shh... look further into.

Kondo, Sachiko "2‐Arachidonoylglycerol, an endogenous cannabinoid receptor agonist: Identification as one of the major species of monoacylglycerols in various rat tissues, and evidence for its generation through CA2+‐dependent and‐independent mechanisms." FEBS letters (1998)
 
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Fractality

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Which has more exomorphins, cow cheese or cow milk? I've never had problems with cow milk (except one time with a batch of raw milk) but would choose goat milk instead now. Unfortunately I recently bought cow cheese instead of goat cheese and I'm wondering if I should throw out the cheese to avoid exomorphins. I had a chunk last night and coincidentally, didn't have my usual morning bowel movement. Now, perhaps I'm being neurotic here but it has me wondering.
 

Travis

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Which has more exomorphins, cow cheese or cow milk? I've never had problems with cow milk (except one time with a batch of raw milk) but would choose goat milk instead now. Unfortunately I recently bought cow cheese instead of goat cheese and I'm wondering if I should throw out the cheese to avoid exomorphins. I had a chunk last night and coincidentally, didn't have my usual morning bowel movement. Now, perhaps I'm being neurotic here but it has me wondering.
No. They've been experimentally proven to slow transit time, just like any opiate.

The casomorphin peptide is found inside the casein protein, meaning that cheese is especially concentrated. During cheese production, milk proteins are separated and more casiein ends‐up in cheese. Even though this increases the opiate potential, this does lower the serotonin potential since the whey protein α-lactalbumin has the highest Fernstrom ratio of any food; there has even been a study on this:

Markus, C. "Whey protein rich in α-lactalbumin increases the ratio of plasma tryptophan to the sum of the other large neutral amino acids and improves cognitive performance in stress-vulnerable subjects." The American journal of clinical nutrition (2002)

I think exorphins are worth considering since they interfere with our own enkephalins, acting on their receptors and causing opiate effects. From reading that review article posted by @Amazoniac, I'm getting the impression that ~90% of the opiate activity can be eliminated by switching to goat cheese.
 

Travis

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This is truly bizarre: Nyberg, F. "Immunoreactive β-casomorphin-8 in cerebrospinal fluid from pregnant and lactating women: correlation with plasma levels." The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism (1989)

The peptide fragment β-casomorphin-8 has been detected in higher levels in lactating females—where it purportedly causes emotional disturbances—in both plasma and cerebospinal fluid:

'This study was initiated by the observation that a group of women suffering from postpartum psychosis had considerable levels of opioid activity in their CSF.' ―Nyberg

caso1.png click to embiggen: Image depicting measured β-casomorphin-8 values.

'Figure 6 shows the plasma and CSF β-casomorphin-8 concentrations in nonpregnant, pregnant, and lactating women. The mean CSF levels in the three groups were 0.15, 0.22, and 0.35 nmol/L, respectively. The corresponding plasma values were 0.32, 0.82, and 2.66 nmol/L.' ―Nyberg

But one may wonder why these peptides are found higher in lactating females? The answer is as simple as it is surprising. Humans also produce casein, in the mammary gland, and an eight amino acid fragment of which has been named β-casomorphin-8. This is identical to the bovine β-casomorphin-7, but for a valine→proline substitution at position №4 from the N-terminus:

caso2.png caso.png click to embiggen: Localization and differences and between bovine and human β-casomorphin-7/8.

Nyberg's explanation for the phenomenon is as follows:

'This study suggests that β-casein and fragments thereof may flow in a retrograde direction from milk into maternal plasma, be further fragmented by proteolysis by thus far uncharacterized enzymes, and generate biologically active (opioid) peptides which enter and affect the CNS. β-Casein could then be considered a prohormone as well as a nutrient.' ―Nyberg
Seems like a convincing explanation.
 
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Amazoniac

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I suspect that the part of the pineapple pulp that's close to its peel also has higher concentration of the enzyme, not just the core, and it would make sense. But what doesn't make sense is placing the seeds near the peel since it's much better and safer for the plant to place them in the tastier part away from the exterior.
__
Wild and Ancient Fruit: Is it Really Small, Bitter, and Low in Sugar?
 

Travis

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...is placing the seeds near the peel since it's much better and safer for the plant to place them in the tastier part away from the exterior.
People who've tried the peel know that you're wrong. The peel is actually the best part, even better than the fronds (lol).
 

Travis

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I suspect that the part of the pineapple pulp that's close to its peel also has higher concentration of the enzyme, not just the core, and it would make sense. But what doesn't make sense is placing the seeds near the peel since it's much better and safer for the plant to place them in the tastier part away from the exterior.
__
Wild and Ancient Fruit: Is it Really Small, Bitter, and Low in Sugar?
This could be for the birds who peak the fruit with their beaks. Birds' beaks are of a finite length and sharpness, and their neck muscles low in force. Due to the limited penetrance of pineapple‐eating beaks, the seed placement of this fruit could perhaps be considered ideal.
 
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Amazoniac

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@Amazoniac where did you post those studies about speeding up gut transit time and relationship to carbs and meat eating? I love your posts!!
I don't know which one!
People who've tried the peel know that you're wrong. The peel is actually the best part, even better than the fronds (lol).
It doesn't make sense to put the tastier part near the exterior and not protect it somehow.
__
In my opinion, this type of knife is hands down the most useful multipurpose one for a kitchen. It cuts everything with minimum effort and mess and it certainly goes through the food with maximum prejudice.
https://www.amazon.com/J-HENCKELS-INTERNATIONAL-Prime/dp/B00068IZZ8
https://www.amazon.com/DIAMANT-TRAMONTINA-MfrPartNo-80020-500/dp/B000HMA4GQ
I think Kyocera also has them, they call it "micro-serrated" edges.
 
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Amazoniac

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This could be for the birds who peak the fruit with their beaks. Birds' beaks are of a finite length and sharpness, and their neck muscles low in force. Due to the limited penetrance of pineapple‐eating birds, the seed placement of this fruit could perhaps be considered ideal.
That's interesting!
 

Travis

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I don't know which one!

It doesn't make sense to put the tastier part near the exterior and not protect it somehow.
__
In my opinion, this type of knife is hands down the most useful multipurpose one for a kitchen. It cuts everything with minimum effort and mess and it certainly goes through the food with maximum prejudice.
https://www.amazon.com/J-HENCKELS-INTERNATIONAL-Prime/dp/B00068IZZ8
https://www.amazon.com/DIAMANT-TRAMONTINA-MfrPartNo-80020-500/dp/B000HMA4GQ
I think Kyocera also has them, they call it "micro-serrated" edges.
If you get the one‐sided bevel—like as found in the higher‐carbon Asian knives—it is relatively easy to sharpen with a water stone. Even those $25 knives from the Asian stores can be made intensely sharp and kept that way; I think the differences between the actual steel quality of most knives is relatively insignificant, with the long‐term sharpness having more to do with sharpening technique than with the brand's name.
 
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Amazoniac

Amazoniac

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If you get the one‐sided bevel—like as found in the higher‐carbon Asian knives—it is relatively easy to sharpen with a water stone. Even those $25 knives from the Asian stores can be made intensely sharp and kept that way; I think the differences between the actual steel quality of most knives is relatively insignificant, with the long‐term sharpness having more to do with sharpening technique than with the brand's name.
I think those are great as long as the blades are kept extremely sharp. Some people are into the ritual.
I forgot to add that the serrated blade is the best option in terms of practicality because it dispenses the need for sharpening and is effective even after prolonged use. Have you tried them?
 

Travis

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I think those are great as long as the blades are kept extremely sharp. Some people are into the ritual.
I forgot to add that the serrated blade is the best option in terms of practicality because it dispenses the need for sharpening and is effective even after prolonged use. Have you tried them?
It only takes five minutes a month to sharpen a single‐beveled knife, and sharpening a double‐beveled knife is not impossible.

But mostly, I stick to Asian knives because I like the way they look and the dry feel of the wooden handles. My knife's edge is ten years old and has probably lost about 100·mm of steel through repeated sharpening. This knife will certainly last another ten years and can be made as sharp as nearly any other.

But you can make a knife too sharp, of course. Drawing‐out a long thin edge, as found on a straight razor, would lead to edge‐curling the moment it's used on a pineapple. Having your own stone allows you to taylor the edge profile, or the sharpness, specifically to whatever you'd anticipate cutting with it.
 
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Amazoniac

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It only takes five minutes a month to sharpen a single‐beveled knife, and sharpening a double‐beveled knife is not impossible.

But mostly, I stick to Asian knives because I like the way they look and the dry feel of the wooden handles. My knife's edge is ten years old and has probably lost about 100·mm of steel through repeated sharpening. This knife will certainly last another ten years and can be made as sharp as nearly any other.

But you can make a knife too sharp, of course. Drawing‐out a long thin edge, as found on a straight razor, would lead to edge‐curling the moment it's used on a pineapple. Having your own stone allows you to taylor the edge profile, or the sharpness, specifically to whatever you'd anticipate cutting with it.

'
 

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