The Thyromimetic Mechanism Of Androsterone (and Other Androgens)

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Jan 1, 2017.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    As I posted in one of the androsterone threads, studies in the first half of the 20th century discovered hypocholesteremic and pyrogenic effects of androsterone and many animal models and also in humans. However, the direct mechanism for these effects of androsterone was not elucidated by these studies and scientists simply remarked that the increase in oxygen consumption and lower cholesterol is consistent with a thyromimetic effects.
    The study below goes a step further and actually establishes that the effects of androsterone are truly pro-thyroid, as administration of a known thyroid inhibitor and antagonist blocked the hypocholesterolemic effects of androsterone (and testosterone). The thyroid antagonist used was thiouracil, which is not only an inhibitor of thyroid hormone synthesis from tyrosine but also decreases binding of T3 to the thyroid "receptor".
    Thiouracil - Wikipedia
    http://dx.doi.org/10.1210/jc.2006-1621
    http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2006-1621
    The latter action of thiouracil is virtually unknown by most endocrinologists but probably plays a larger role in its anti-thyroid effects then its inhibition of thyroid hormone synthesis (which happens only at large doses). So, androsterone and other androgens is a true thyromimietic by increasing availability of the thyroid hormone at the transcriptional level, in a manner directly opposing that of thiouracil. On the other hand, estrogen has an effect similar to thiouracil and inhibits thyroid function/effects resulting in increase in cholesterol levels.

    Thyroid-androgen interrelation in the dietary hypercholesterolemic rat. - PubMed - NCBI
    "...The intramuscular administration of androsterone (A) or testosterone propionate (TP) to rats fed a hypercholesterologenic diet reduced the blood cholesterol level in female rats to that of male rats, and TP lowered the blood cholesterol of male rats. Estradiol benzoate (EB) increased blood cholesterol levels in the male rat. When o. I 5 yO thiouracil was added to the diet, A or TP did not reduce the hypercholesterolemia in either sex. Instead the blood cholesterol in males increased to that observed in females. Thiouracil did not inhibit the effect of A, TP, or EB on the accessory sex organs. The effect of thiouracil was to block the hypocholesterolemic action of A and TP without affecting their androgenicity. The results suggest that the hypocholesterolemic effect of A and TP in rats fed a hypercholesterologenic diet is separate from androgenic activity and is dependent on the activity of the thyroid."

    "...The administration of testosterone propionate (8) or methyltestosterone (9) to human patients has been reported to result in a decrease in protein-bound iodine (PBI) levels, a decrease in thyroxine-binding capacity of thyroxine-binding globulin (TBG), increased circulating free thyroxine, and perhaps a resultant increase in the rate of thyroxine disappearance from blood. Estrogens are reported to have the opposite effect (6, 8) which results in a decreased rate of peripheral disposal of thyroxine. It has been shown in the rat that estrogen will increase relative thyroid weight and increase I-131 uptake bv the thyroid (20). Reports suggest that estrogen increases the daily PBI turnover in the rat (13) while not influencing the disappearance from plasma or pattern of excretion of thyroxine (12)."

    "...Our observations and the reports of others suggest that androgens may not affect the thyroid directly, but exert their influence in reducing elevated blood cholesterol levels by decreasing thyroxinebinding globulin (TBG) and its affinity for thyroxine; this would result in increased free thyroxine blood levels which may increase the rate of available thyroxine to the peripheral tissues for purposes such as the metabolism of cholesterol. Estrogens may have the opposite effect on blood cholesterol by decreasing the available free thyroxine in the blood through an increase in blood TBG and its affinity for thyroxine. However, during thiouracil feeding there is inhibition of thyroxine synthesis and reduction in TBG and free thyroxine, and for these reasons the hypothyroid animal may not show a hypocholesterolemic response to androgens."
     
  2. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    @haidut

    I'm getting a very positive experience with androsterone, and I heard that you used it to replace thyroid. What dose do you use, and when do you take that dose?
     
  3. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    If I feel like my metabolism is slowing or about to get a "bug" of some sorts I take a single dose of StressNon (20mg) in the morning and 3 x 10mg androsterone. The androsterone is split into morning, noon and evening doses. It noticeably raises my temps and prevents getting a "flu". I am not even mentioning the muscle and mood effects, they are obvious even in much smaller doses like 5mg once daily.
     
  4. piotr_zarach

    piotr_zarach Member

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    Haidut dmso or mct version?
     
  5. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    That's quite a lot, of androsterone, but as long as it works. Thanks for the info.
     
  6. Dhair

    Dhair Member

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    @haidut, this is interesting. I'm currently getting sick. I have a fever and chills. Could I use androsterone in this situation or would that raise my temps too high?
     
  7. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    Is androsterone the strongest thyroid "surrogate" in your opinion or alternative to T3/NDT? And I assume you take preg/stressnon with it so cortisol doesn't drop too low right?
     
  8. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Why would pregnenolone prevent cortisol from dropping too low? I'm not sure if androsterone was stronger than 11-keto-dht for digestion and increasing temperature, but the effects were immediate whereas 11-keto-dht was more noticeable hours later if not the next couple of days. Both seem to be positive as metabolism boosters.
    By the way haidut mentions 5mg daily being enough to see notable effect, I get huge effects from 1mg, I wonder if this is a sign of how much a deficiency of androsterone there is or the opposite .
     
  9. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    Too much thyroid stimulation can bring cortisol too low. Not enough thyroid can leave cortisol high (i.e. hypothyroid state). Administering pregnenolone with T3 (or androsterone) in this case can backfill/mimic cortisol if it drops too low along with the other hormones.

    In this case I assume androsterone mimics thyroid and can do the same thing, so that is why I'm assuming haidut uses preg with the andro for that purpose although that is why I was asking to see.
     
  10. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Ok that's what I had understood from your post but I would expect a lower dose of pregnenolone to be protective against cortisol rather than raise it . Hyperthyroid people don't seem to suffer from low cortisol symptoms , perhaps lowering cortisol artificially through 5-ar derived androgens rather than thyroid itself can give such effects. Anyways, just curious I definitely don't know the answer!
    As for haidut he had posted a study in which the author concluded an aromatizable and a non aromatizable hormone combination is best (lower doses needed, T/dhea/preg would convert into more desirable steroids etc...).
     
  11. johnwester130

    johnwester130 Member

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    Is the DMSO multiplication effect considered in those numbers ?
     
  12. johnwester130

    johnwester130 Member

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    the best surrogate would still be b1/b3/caffeine and aspirin with coconut oil
     
  13. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    How is it better than androsterone though? Androsterone literally mimics exactly what thyroid does (lowers cholesterol) plus the anti estrogen effect. Also the anti estrogen effect of androsterone (at 2mg) is stronger than all of the five you listed.
     
  14. TubZy

    TubZy Member

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    Yeah, I don't think preg raises cortisol it actually was shown the opposite I think through the suppression of ACTH. I think preg just prevents cortisol from dropping TOO low rather than raising it along with other hormones too. I think the hypothesis was that preg can mimic any hormone when it is lacking so I don't know if it actually has an direct effect on circulating cortisol serum itself or just acts like cortisol at the receptor/tissue site. That is what I'm trying to to figure out as well lol.
     
  15. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    See here for posts which mentions the combination of aromatizable + non aromatizable hormones:
    https://raypeatforum.com/community/...neurosteroid-for-r-d.13743/page-7#post-193228
    Pansterone - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Rejuvenation
     
  16. TreasureVibe

    TreasureVibe Member

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    Quick question on androsterone I hope someone can answer:

    What is the best dose daily, and do you rub it in or do you just leave it on the skin, and what's the best location for application? Thnx!
     
  17. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    Im pretty sure my liver enzymes went up after a month of Androsterone. But I seem to always have slightly impaired liver function so maybe that's why
     
  18. TreasureVibe

    TreasureVibe Member

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    :frowning:
     
  19. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Why are you pretty sure about this?
     
  20. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    Blood tests
     
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