The Tetracycline Antibiotics Inhibit Mitochondrial Respiration

haidut

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,782
Location
USA / Europe
I posted a study about a month ago showing that the tetracycline class of antibiotics are potent inhibitors for a large number of cancer types. The proposed mechanism of action in that study was the fact that the tetracyclines were very toxic to the tumor mitochondria.
This study found that the tetracyclines inhibit mitochondrial respiration in normal cells too. I wonder what would Ray say about that and what the impact is for people using those antibiotics on a regular basis for gut issues.
Perhaps more interestingly (and in support of Peat's endorsement of the tetracyclines), despite the decrease in mitochondrial respiration organisms treated with a tetracycline antibiotic were more agile as they aged - i.e. they did not exhibit decline in physical/mental fitness with age.
So, what's going on here - tetracyclines cause lower respiration/metabolism but improved fitness??

http://www.the-scientist.com//?articles ... ochondria/

"... Two years ago, study coauthor Johan Auwerx, an energy metabolism researcher at the École Polytechnique Fédérale in Lausanne, Switzerland, and his colleagues observed that the tetracycline class of antibiotics, which target mitochondrial translation, led to an imbalance between mitochondrial and nuclear protein translation in both worms and mammalian cell lines. Expanding on this observation, the researchers have now shown that even low concentrations of tetracyclines can inhibit mitochondrial function and lead to changes in both mitochondrial and nuclear protein expression. Across four commonly used human cell lines, as little as 1 microgram of the drug per milliliter resulted in a decrease in cellular respiration, signaling impaired mitochondrial activity. Treatment with amoxicillin, an antibiotic that does not target protein synthesis in the mitochondria, did not lead to these effects. Further, genome-wide expression data showed global repression of mitochondrial protein synthesis in the presence of the tetracycline doxycycline.
In C. elegans and D. melanogaster, doxycycline exposure during development resulted in developmental delays as well as decreased oxygen consumption when the animals reached adulthood. However, both the doxycycline-treated worms and the fruit flies were more agile throughout their lives compared to those not exposed to the antibiotic, Auwerx and his colleagues found. This observation was consistent with the authors’ previous findings that blocking mitochondrial translation can partly prevent a decline in physical fitness with age."
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,367
Well if it's the same as methylene blue it should skip electron chain steps, so of course less yield but a secure yield that can maintain function. Or perhaps it increases selective pressure for healthier mitochondria like lithium does.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,782
Location
USA / Europe
Such_Saturation said:
Well if it's the same as methylene blue it should skip electron chain steps, so of course less yield but a secure yield that can maintain function. Or perhaps it increases selective pressure for healthier mitochondria like lithium does.

Good points. I was also thinking about the mechanism similar to lithium - i.e. kill cells with defective mitochondria. Here are some studies discussing that tetracyclines and lithium have similar biochemical properties.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8413842
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1965041
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6310696
 
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
7,367
And lithium also is antibacterial and also messes with ribosomes.
 

kiran

Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
1,054
I posted a study about a month ago showing that the tetracycline class of antibiotics are potent inhibitors for a large number of cancer types. The proposed mechanism of action in that study was the fact that the tetracyclines were very toxic to the tumor mitochondria.
This study found that the tetracyclines inhibit mitochondrial respiration in normal cells too. I wonder what would Ray say about that and what the impact is for people using those antibiotics on a regular basis for gut issues.
Perhaps more interestingly (and in support of Peat's endorsement of the tetracyclines), despite the decrease in mitochondrial respiration organisms treated with a tetracycline antibiotic were more agile as they aged - i.e. they did not exhibit decline in physical/mental fitness with age.
So, what's going on here - tetracyclines cause lower respiration/metabolism but improved fitness??

I take minocycline on and off. Taking it for a longer time makes me loopy and my balance gets affected. Ended up taking it in 3 day bursts.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,782
Location
USA / Europe
I take minocycline on and off. Taking it for a longer time makes me loopy and my balance gets affected. Ended up taking it in 3 day bursts.

Interesting, thanks. Have you asked Peat about the balance effects from minocycline? It sounds like something gut irritation or ear toxicity would do. Or hypoglycemia of course.
 

ddjd

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2014
Messages
3,552
is it better to take tetracycline over minocycline or doxycycline? (i know theyre all tetracyclines)
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,782
Location
USA / Europe
is it better to take tetracycline over minocycline or doxycycline? (i know theyre all tetracyclines)

I think any one of these is OK. Minocycline seems to target the nervous system more than the other two, hence why it is commonly used in studies for animal models of ALS, AD, MS, Parkinson, etc.
 

churchmouth

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
248
I am on minocycline for over a month to improve skin.

Side effect is inflammation is down significantly and bowels are a lot more bullet proof too.

The effect on my mitochondria (this study) does worry me though.

@haidut do you think there is any concerns taking methylene blue as well as minocycline? I geuss we dont understand what is going on yet.
 

jitsmonkey

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
729
I get the most marked mood improvement from doxy.

I've tested doxy, mino, tetra & penicillin
 
J

jb116

Guest
Couldn't there be s biological complexity at play here where even though it has this negative property there is still a greater net effect. Like with RU486
 

churchmouth

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
248
Haidut on Danny Roddy's patreon crowdcast mentioned that he isn't concerned about mitochondrial respiration inhibition at the dosages used for acne (50-100mg a day).
 

dfspcc20

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
553
Minocycline seems to target the nervous system more than the other two, hence why it is commonly used in studies for animal models of ALS, AD, MS, Parkinson, etc.

What are signs that the nervous system needs "targeting" by antibiotics, other than overt ALS, AD, MS, Parkinson symptoms?
 

Vinero

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
1,511
Age
30
Location
Netherlands
Maybe the decrease in respiration/metabolism is simply that metabolism becomes more efficient with fewer calories.
Ray mentioned in one of his interviews that when he was younger he worked in the woods and he needed like 5000 calories a day or something, while still being skinny and having many hypothyroid symptoms.
When he took a thyroid supplement his body didn't need such as massive amount of calories anymore, his metabolism decreased (became more efficient).
He could eat 2500 calories or something while gaining bodyweight. Maybe the decrease in metabolism seen with tetracycline antibiotics is similar to taking thyroid in the sense that it makes your metabolism more efficient instead of wasteful.
 

Blossom

Moderator
Joined
Nov 23, 2013
Messages
8,672
Maybe the decrease in respiration/metabolism is simply that metabolism becomes more efficient with fewer calories.
Ray mentioned in one of his interviews that when he was younger he worked in the woods and he needed like 5000 calories a day or something, while still being skinny and having many hypothyroid symptoms.
When he took a thyroid supplement his body didn't need such as massive amount of calories anymore, his metabolism decreased (became more efficient).
He could eat 2500 calories or something while gaining bodyweight. Maybe the decrease in metabolism seen with tetracycline antibiotics is similar to taking thyroid in the sense that it makes your metabolism more efficient instead of wasteful.
Interesting perspective.
 

haidut

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Mar 18, 2013
Messages
17,782
Location
USA / Europe
Maybe the decrease in respiration/metabolism is simply that metabolism becomes more efficient with fewer calories.
Ray mentioned in one of his interviews that when he was younger he worked in the woods and he needed like 5000 calories a day or something, while still being skinny and having many hypothyroid symptoms.
When he took a thyroid supplement his body didn't need such as massive amount of calories anymore, his metabolism decreased (became more efficient).
He could eat 2500 calories or something while gaining bodyweight. Maybe the decrease in metabolism seen with tetracycline antibiotics is similar to taking thyroid in the sense that it makes your metabolism more efficient instead of wasteful.

I think it is difference of thyroid-driven vs. adrenal-driven metabolism. People with high adrenaline/cortisol also have high metabolism but of the wrong kind. Strenuous exercise also raises metabolism through this bad method. So, taking thyroid lowers the stress hormones, which increases progesterone/DHEA and restores the oxidative metabolism. It is better to have higher RMR and do fine on 2,500 calories daily then stress yourself to death and need 5,000 daily. It is not just high metabolism that matters, but high resting metabolism (RMR). People running on stress hormones have low RMR but higher daily average MR. Only RMR has been positively associated with health and protective against CVD, cancer, etc. High metabolic rate driven by adrenals is actually quite unhealthy and that has been confirmed in so many human studies. So I keep wondering if all the doctors recommending regular exercise even read medical journals any more. I guess, old myths (and industries) die hard...
 

krosser

New Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
1
I was reading on tetracyclines and came across a side effect of minocycline, which is hair loss. Although it is indicated as rare but if you google, you find several cases of people experiencing hair loss when taking minocycline.
I was considering trying it in 50mg dose, but I don't want to lose even more hair :)
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
P Positive Effect Of Tetracycline Antibiotics On Bones Articles & Scientific Studies 0
Pointless Acne Rosacea, DMSO, Antibiotics, Tetracycline, Aspirin Supplements 32
chris Experiences With Antibiotics? (Tetracycline, Doxycycline, Minocycline) Pharmaceutical Drugs 32
haidut Tetracycline Antibiotics Are Strong Iron Chelators Cancer 6
Sexypizza Does anyone know where I can buy tetracycline? Supplements 2
Tristan Loscha Severe And Persistent Thyroid Dysfunction Associated With Tetracycline-Antibiotic Treatment In Youth Pharmaceutical Drugs 45
R Tetracycline Ask For Help or Advice 0
L Penicillin, Tetracycline - Which One Does Ray Peat Use? Pharmaceutical Drugs 9
P Tetracycline - Kidney Damage Digestion, Gut Flora 2
P Tetracycline Makes Me Hungry Digestion, Gut Flora 0
P Tetracycline Usage Digestion, Gut Flora 1
ddjd Tetracycline V Monocyline V Doxycycline? Ask For Help or Advice 1
Pointless Best Dose, Frequency, And Duration For A Course Of Tetracycline Pharmaceutical Drugs 6
F Tetracycline In Europe? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 2
Amazoniac Garlic Antimicrobial Effects Were More Permanent And Irresistible When Compared To Tetracycline Digestion, Gut Flora 17
Antarehs Tetracycline To Reverse Osteoporosis, Tooth Decay And Periodontal Disease? Oral Health 23
charmer Tetracycline For Rheumatoid Arthritis Ask For Help or Advice 2
achillea Cypro And Tetracycline Cortisol, Serotonin, Histamine 5
S Tetracycline Shipped To Norway Pharmaceutical Drugs 11
Velve921 Tetracycline For Excessive Urination. 500mg Ok? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 15
goodandevil Gram Negative Folliculitis After Tetracycline Skin 16
goodandevil Tetracycline as preventor of myocardial infarctio Articles & Scientific Studies 0
C Prostatitis - Prescribed antibiotics but unsure whether to take them? Male Issues 41
TypicalJock Antibiotics/medicine to heal gut and liver? Ask For Help or Advice 10
pied Antibiotics in Canada or Reasonable Doctors in Montreal/Ottawa (Canada) Ask For Help or Advice 6
A How long is it safe to take antibiotics? Digestion 25
haidut PUFA metabolites may drive bacterial infections and their resistance to antibiotics Scientific Studies 0
ecstatichamster Antibiotics cured my chronic constipation (by mistake) Digestion 40
M Can one course of antibiotics lead to stubborn weight gain? Weight 2
BearWithMe Timing of antibiotics and activated charcoal to avoid endotoxin absorbtion Ask For Help or Advice 6
TheBeard Selectively targeting the gut with antibiotics Digestion 23
Sam321 What is the most effective way to reduce the effects of endotoxin after antibiotics? Ask For Help or Advice 19
D Fish antibiotics Ask For Help or Advice 56
Q Antibiotics to improve digestion and fat absorption (c diff without toxins) Digestion 0
S Antibiotics For H Pylori, Stomach Pain Ask For Help or Advice 8
haidut The Tetracyclines Protect Against Sepsis Independently Of Their Antibiotics Effects Scientific Studies 3
noqcks Antibiotics Online Pharmaceutical Drugs 3
TheBeard Why I Prescribe Antibiotics To Patients With Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Multiple Chemic Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 21
ScurveDream Tetracyclines, ROS & Light-driven Antibiotics Approach (antimicrobial Photodynamic Inactivation) Articles & Scientific Studies 0
lvysaur Slow Digestion Is Good? A Symptom Of Antibiotics Digestion, Gut Flora 6
TheBeard Long Term Antibiotics Success Stories Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 16
Moshi New Tick Bite - Antibiotics? Pharmaceutical Drugs 25
Ravenslore Why Do I Need Less Thyroid When I’m On Antibiotics? Thyroid and Hormones 33
Lenny Opinions/Guidance Requested On Doctor's Prescription And Antibiotics Ask For Help or Advice 7
J Antibiotics Working A Treat Testimonials 7
L Sanitation Conquered Infection Disease Long Before Antibiotics, Vaccines Symptoms, Causes 2
J Chronic Endotoxemia- Antibiotics Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 2
adnan.dabaan About Antibiotics Question Digestion 2
ScurveDream How Can Ginger/etc. Compare To Antibiotics? Ask For Help or Advice 36
boris Antibiotics + Milk. Should Antibiotics Really Not Be Taken With Dairy? Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs 1

Similar threads

Top