The Sweet Truth About Liver And Egg Yolks

[Dean]

It's good to here that people are catching on to keeping (or wanting to keep) soy out of the feeds. I've been on the anti-soy bandwagon all the way back to my childhood when the soy burgers they used to feed us in the school lunchroom used to give me such terrible headaches and stomach upset. Even in my vegan phase, you couldn't get me anywhere near tofu.

That's a good point you make about the fishy taste though. While people may be catching on to the dangers of soy, the omega 3 bandwagon is still loaded down. In fact, now that I think about my chicken raising experience, I was on the omega 3 bandwagon early and was having fishmeal put in my feed, perhaps even flax. So, while all the eggs I ate that summer agreed with me in terms of no immediate upset, it's had a long term negative impact after all.

 

[narouz]

Narouz, clint over at RP fans only eats a small amount of egg white. He is a pretty smart guy and dialed in really good with Ray Peat and this is how he does his eggs. So, that's what I do. I don't need anymore inflammation then I have, so I am cook with tossing the whites. All the good stuff is in the yellow anyhow. IIRC, something like 40% of the protein is in the yellow to. I think the whites have tryptophan in them but I am not sure.

Dean, my hens do not eat any soy. They only eat a little bit of non gmo corn, alfalfa and blood meal but most of their food is from free range foraging.

Charlie-
I've read a tiny bit by Clint and I was positively impressed
but I haven't had the longer and private conversations with him like you have.
And he would seem to be the lone voice proposing the evils of egg white
versus the greatness of the yolks (I exaggerate, I know )

Subtracting Clint,
everything else on eggs and inflammation tends to run the opposite way:
the yolks are said to be inflammatory and the whites healthy.
Not saying that that "consensus" really means anything!
In PeatLand I've long accustomed myself to inverted values and eccentric views!!

But then even with Peat himself: I've never heard him remark about throwing the whites out.
Again...not everything that's true has to come from Peat, but...I do tend to be guided by him.
If you read through his articles
you'll only find (well--I could only find in a cursory search) a few stray remarks about egg whites,
none of which are very indicting.
When he talks about eating eggs himself (again, I know, not a decisive consideration)
he never mentions throwing out the whites
or even mentions anything bad about the whites.

I'm not bitchin' at ya about this, Charlie.
I'm glad you passed along the idea,
because I've been eating quite a few eggs.
It just surprised me and flew in the face of more established views
(including what I've taken to be Peatian views).

 

[gretchen]

Due to PUFA overload, I can only tolerate about 2 eggs a day. But the choline thing sounds true. I don't believe the recent news stories about eggs (ie that they're worse than smoking or whatever the story was)

 

[cliff]

He mentions that the egg whites have more of the inflammatory amino acids while the egg yolks have a more balanced ratio. He obviously doesn't think eating the egg white is bad, when I emailed him about raw egg yolks he mentioned making egg nog.

"Some people have been encouraged to eat only the whites of eggs, “to avoid cholesterol,” but the egg albumin is rich in tryptophan."
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/trypt ... ging.shtml

"The use of the highest quality protein (egg yolk or potato juice, or at least milk or meat) is important"
http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/eclampsia.shtml

 

[narouz]

Thanks, Cliff.

Yes...I had seen those statements, but they constitute such a tiny volume
of anti-egg white material in Peat's work.
Whereas there are pervasive positive expressions about whole eggs
with no mention of "And be sure to throw away the white part of the egg."

But I see the justification based on the amino profiles.
Isn't egg white also higher in cystiene?

Dr. Peat will get fussy about details if he attaches importance to them.
For example, he often mentions not drinking the pulp of orange juice.
The fact that he barely lifts a finger to restrain people from eating egg whites
suggests to me that it is not a big deal to him

Still...it is an interesting detail that had never registered with me before.
Thanks Charlie and Cliff.

I wonder if the PUFA is more concentrated in the white or yolk?
That is what Peat, of course, seems most worried about.

 

[charlie]

Narouz, point being. If I am eating 3 or 4 egg yolks a day. And then on top of that, the complete whites. Thats a lot more of inflammatory protein that I just do not need due to getting enough good protein from milk, cheese, etc. IIRC, Clint says he does eat about 20% of the white. I simply do not feel I need it though. It's extra protein and calories I do not need.

 

[j.]

I eat two eggs per day and about 75% of the white. Just because if I eat too much of the white I don't like it for a few days.

 

[cliff]

All the pufa is in the yolk, the whites are basically fat free.

 

[charlie]

I just checked into what nutrients that the white has and its loaded with riboflavin and selenium. So, I might start eating a little bit of the whites.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dai ... ucts/112/2

 

[narouz]

Narouz, point being. If I am eating 3 or 4 egg yolks a day. And then on top of that, the complete whites. Thats a lot more of inflammatory protein that I just do not need due to getting enough good protein from milk, cheese, etc. IIRC, Clint says he does eat about 20% of the white. I simply do not feel I need it though. It's extra protein and calories I do not need.

Yes, yes--I see what you're sayin'.
It's just that Peat says next to nothing about egg whites being pro-inflammatory.
Not "nothing," I'll grant you!
But: next to nothing.

You know me: I tend to be pretty strictly Peatian.
Many here think I need to relax in my interpretation
of what constitutes optimal (sorry Ray-Z!) Peat eating.
This egg white = pro inflammatory thing raises the Strictness Bar even for me!

So of course it interests me.
I'm of the mindset that I want to know what a Perfect Peat Diet is,
then I can decide how much I want to be perfect.
Rather than saying, as a starting point, "there is no Peat diet,"
and then transgress from there!

So it would seem, Charlie, that you are almost regarding egg yolks
sortuv as you would liver in PeatLand.
That is: you eat liver not primarily for the protein but for the rather difficult-to-get nutrients.

That makes sense in respect to PUFA too.
Peat frequently puts that caution on egg eating, of course.
So if you eat only the yolks mainly for the nutrients
rather than as a protein staple of your diet
this could lead to more minimal egg consumption and thus less PUFA consumption.

And that would seem to fit well into statements Peat makes about
the trade-off, especially when starting to eat Peatanically and getting the metabolism cranked up--
the trade-off between nutrients vs. PUFA in eggs.
He has said that, at the beginning, and in the short term,
it is more important to quench nutrient deficiencies (in order to revivify the metabolism)
than it is to fret about relatively minor PUFA intake.

So, Peat seems to place emphasis on eggs mainly for their nutrient load--
not, ideally, for their protein.
I think he would apply that to the yolks as well, simply because of the PUFA drawbacks.
If that is the case,
and--as you say Charlie--if you are getting plently of high quality protein
from dairy,
then it would seem smart to only consume
the nutrient dense, non-inflammatory part of the egg--the yolk.
-Less PUFA (I assume, unless the PUFA is concentrated in the yolk).
-Less inflammatory aminos like tryptophan (and cysteine?)

You realize you may be reshaping the Perfect Peat Diet Chart, Charlie?
I mean, in my expressions in that direction,
and in most other interpreters' view,
eggs--not just egg yolks--
have usually been extolled as Perfectly Peatian.
You're makin' history, Charlie!

Cliff...I can't imagine you getting too worked up about avoiding the whites...?

One question on egg whites being "inflammatory."
One reason I was surprised when you raised this issue
is that--beyond having read, as I say, next-to-nothing from Peat about this--
another reason it surprised me was that
when Peat talks about foods having a bad amino acid/protein profile,
he usually uses the term "stressful" to characterize their negative impact.
As with eating a lot of muscle meats, for instance:
Peat says that that is "stressful" for the body.

I guess when you use the term "inflammatory," Charlie,
you may be meaning the same thing as when Peat says "stressful"...?
I mean: when Peat says excess muscle meat consumption is stressful,
I would think he means to include "inflammatory" as one of the stressful results,
because tryptophan and cysteine trigger serotonin and estrogen and the whole cascade
of "bad guys,"
one result of which is inflammation.

Well, for lunch I was gonna have a couple of eggs.
Now...is it just gonna be egg yolks...?

 

[cliff]

I think the whites are only an issue if you eat them alone, should be fine for most if eaten with the yolk. Probably depends on how much eggs you are eating too, if I was eating 4 eggs like clint I would probably not eat very much of the whites.

I just avoid the whites because I eat the eggs raw and don't like the taste, if I make scrambled eggs I eat the whites.

 

[narouz]

All the pufa is in the yolk, the whites are basically fat free.

Right, right...
dang.

 

[David]

I asked Ray Peat before about avoiding the whites due to the tryptophan content and eating egg whites raw vs. cooked and this is what he said:

"I think there are likely to be some useful trace nutrients in the white, and the small amount of tryptophan doesn't matter. But some people eat just egg whites, and lose most of the nutrients. If a person ate several raw egg whites daily, with an otherwise poor diet, they might get a biotin deficiency, but ordinarily it doesn't matter."

 

[charlie]

Cool, thanks David!

 

[freal]

Choline and fatty liver is an interesting topic, but what about inositol, thats is going through my head right now. Chris Masterjohn never elaborated on inositol but searching on it inositol is used for fatty liver. Somebody in the coment setion of his article asked him about inositol but no answer. Its seems inositol also protects against fatty liver and the richest source are believe it or not are oranges.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/33/9/1954.full.pdf

But its not that rich in it like choline in the other choline rich foods mentioned in previous coments, I hope someone will look at inositol in the future. A quart of store bought orange juice from concentrate would have 250mg?? Maybe if you ate fresh oranges you would get more??

 

[charlie]

freal thats pretty interesting. Another win for oranges.

 

[jyb]

No, I soft boil them as suggested by Ray Peat. That creates the least amount of damage to the yolk.

You could take out the yolks, cook the whites separately, then reassemble with intact yolk. Unless you have a reaction to the tiny amount of uncooked whites that are with the yolk (would be surprising), since its difficult to entirely separate the yolk.

 

[charlie]

No, I soft boil them as suggested by Ray Peat. That creates the least amount of damage to the yolk.

You could take out the yolks, cook the whites separately, then reassemble with intact yolk.

I just do them raw now. :P

 

[freal]

Is there any evidence that choline and other nutrients are destroyed or lowered by cooking??

Soft boiling will not destroy bacteria like salmonella so why even bother soft boiling unless you like the dish.

 

[charlie]

Is there any evidence that choline and other nutrients are destroyed or lowered by cooking??

I dunno?

Soft boiling will not destroy bacteria like salmonella so why even bother soft boiling unless you like the dish.

Exactly.