The real reasons make-up makes a woman/man attractive - regardless of quality

[JamesGatz]

Why does make-up make a woman attractive ?

Many seem to think it's the quality of the make-up - but all make-up seems to have ingredients that boost estradiol - which masculinizes the brain.

Estrogen masculinizes neural pathways and sex-specific behaviors

Male behaviors require both testosterone and estrogen. Circulating testosterone activates the androgen receptor (AR) and is also converted into estrogen in the brain via aromatase. This conversion is the primary source of estrogen to the male brain. It ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Estradiol and the Developing Brain

Estradiol is the most potent and ubiquitous member of a class of steroid hormones called estrogens. Fetuses and newborns are exposed to estradiol derived from their mother, their own gonads, and synthesized locally in their brains. Receptors for estradiol ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In other words:

Make-up does not make a woman attractive mainly by shading her skin or whatever - it does it by shooting up her estradiol - hence why women who wear lots of make-up have very "feminine" bodies for lack of a better word and tend to be very "emotional" - the make-up shoots up this stress hormone which makes them this horny, emotional wreck - I really don't think "quality" of the make-up matters much in this aspect as they all tend to do this - almost all cosmetic products have ingredients like this
​

 

[Doc Sandoz]

Why does make-up make a woman attractive ?

Many seem to think it's the quality of the make-up - but all make-up seems to have ingredients that boost estradiol - which masculinizes the brain.

View attachment 28777

Estrogen masculinizes neural pathways and sex-specific behaviors

Male behaviors require both testosterone and estrogen. Circulating testosterone activates the androgen receptor (AR) and is also converted into estrogen in the brain via aromatase. This conversion is the primary source of estrogen to the male brain. It ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Estradiol and the Developing Brain

Estradiol is the most potent and ubiquitous member of a class of steroid hormones called estrogens. Fetuses and newborns are exposed to estradiol derived from their mother, their own gonads, and synthesized locally in their brains. Receptors for estradiol ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In other words:

Make-up does not make a woman attractive mainly by shading her skin or whatever - it does it by shooting up her estradiol - hence why women who wear lots of make-up have very "feminine" bodies for lack of a better word and tend to be very "emotional" - the make-up shoots up this stress hormone which makes them this horny, emotional wreck - I really don't think "quality" of the make-up matters much in this aspect as they all tend to do this - almost all cosmetic products have ingredients like this
​

I came up during that brief era - the late '60s and early '70s - when a lot of women rejected make-up, fragrances and all that junk that's supposed to make them "appealing." Too bad that trend didn't continue; makeup only looks good on drag queens.

 

[JamesGatz]

I came up during that brief era - the late '60s and early '70s - when a lot of women rejected make-up, fragrances and all that junk that's supposed to make them "appealing." Too bad that didn't continue as makeup only looks good on drag queens.

Yea I wish it was still like this because every woman around where I live has high estradiol ... they like putting on the makeup and perfumes (which i cant breathe around) - my conversations with high estradiol women are really awkward i hate it - when I meet a women who doesn't have all that stuff she's always a lot more chill and our conversations flow through better ... rarely find women like that anymore unfortunately

 

[Doc Sandoz]

Yea I wish it was still like this because every woman around where I live has high estradiol ... they like putting on the makeup and perfumes (which i cant breathe around) - my conversations with high estradiol women are really awkward i hate it - when I meet a women who doesn't have all that stuff she's always a lot more chill and our conversations flow through better ... rarely find women like that anymore unfortunately

Precisely how I feel. "Fragrances" make me physically sick and being around made up women is indeed uncomfortable. I always figured it was just a counterculture vs the mainstream social thing. Hadn't considered the estradiol angle until now.

 

[reaching]

Jordan Peterson kind of touches on this on that awfully edited vice interview about it simulating arousal.


View: https://youtu.be/S9dZSlUjVls?t=318

 

[AlaskaJono]

The Real Reason.... is that makeup for the fairer sex, i.e. Femmes, simulates the appearance of a woman whilst in the throes of orgasmic ecstasy during sex/love/magic. Your mileage may vary... .

 

[opethfeldt]

No offense meant but man, this is some grade A bro science haha. Do we have any studies showing exactly how much estrogen went up? I doubt it's a lot and probably not enough to make a difference in looks. I also don't think that's the only reason makeup makes women look better. You can look at before and after photos and most look better with properly done makeup. There's no way hormones were influenced in that short of a time, either. Make up makes women look better mostly because it accentuates the most sexually dimorphic features of their face, namely the eyebrows, eyes and lips.

 

[JamesGatz]

The Real Reason.... is that makeup for the fairer sex, i.e. Femmes, simulates the appearance of a woman whilst in the throes of orgasmic ecstasy during sex/love/magic. Your mileage may vary... .

I hear people say this argument for the face but how would the body change in that case? In nearly all fragrances and cosmetics - especially make-up estradiol is shot up - when they don't put on the make-up their bodys become less dimorphic as well - there has to be some type of reaction - that make-up is causing with hormones rather than just appearance

No offense meant but man, this is some grade A bro science haha. Do we have any studies showing exactly how much estrogen went up? I doubt it's a lot and probably not enough to make a difference in looks. I also don't think that's the only reason makeup makes women look better. You can look at before and after photos and most look better with properly done makeup. There's no way hormones were influenced in that short of a time, either. Make up makes women look better mostly because it accentuates the most sexually dimorphic features of their face, namely the eyebrows, eyes and lips.

I am not denying that make-up is used to enhance features to emulate sexually dimorphic traits but as I said above after they apply the make-up their bodies becomes more sexually dimorphic - ingredients in nearly all fragrances, make-up, cosmetics seem to boost estradiol - I also find that woman who wear lots of "make-up" tend to be extremely emotionally sensitive - it seems because they are stressed ... estradiol being the root cause

 

[LeeLemonoil]

That’s reductionstic, under-complex junk.

Our organism is an ultra-complex system with intricately intertwined Feedbacks and regulations and interacts with basically everything in its environment.

Including endocrine disrupters or endocrinologicaly active substances in for example make up yes.

There is nothing that just increases one hormone alone - E2 - without affecting other pathways and self-regulatuons.

There are never mono-causalities for physiological effect-cascades.

And to proclaim that E2 makes women more feminine and attractive is a long discarded assumption.

This is the Forum to get all the knowledge to understand that

 

[JamesGatz]

That’s reductionstic, under-complex junk.

Our organism is an ultra-complex system with intricately intertwined Feedbacks and regulations and interacts with basically everything in its environment.

Including endocrine disrupters or endocrinologicaly active substances in for example make up yes.

There is nothing that just increases one hormone alone - E2 - without affecting other pathways and self-regulatuons.

There are never mono-causalities for physiological effect-cascades.

And to proclaim that E2 makes women more feminine and attractive is a long discarded assumption.

This is the Forum to get all the knowledge to understand that

Which part ? I didn't make this thread to make the claim that "estradiol itself enhances dimorphic traits" ... I never said this directly in the thread - I am aware that hormones affect others but across the board, raising E2 enhances dimorphic traits (for seemingly the wrong reasons) - I am not debating with users about whether this causes it directly

I am making the claim that make-up raises estradiol which then leads to sexually dimorphic traits throughout the body - whether this is caused directly by estradiol and other hormone's response is not the argument I'm making...

 

[Sascha6990]

I've been peating for almost 2 years. Before that, I was vegan for 6 years and that made me an emotional wreck, my hormones were ****88 up badly. Now I'm rational, calm, my brain works a lot better, I feel I'm making connections much faster, I'm very aware and I pay a lot of attention to my environment and the people in it, my memory is great. You know what's one of the things that hasn't changed? My heavy make-up ?
My point is that before blaming make-up, you'd better look at the diet and lifestyle of those women around you. It's true I don't use perfumes, conventional cleaning products, coventional skincare, just conventional eyeshadow, lipsticks, blush, highlighter (I make my own foundation and concealer). Still I tend to think that diet, lifestyle and the people in your surrounding matter more than whether you're putting on perfume in the morning or not.

 

[JamesGatz]

I've been peating for almost 2 years. Before that, I was vegan for 6 years and that made me an emotional wreck, my hormones were ****88 up badly. Now I'm rational, calm, my brain works a lot better, I feel I'm making connections much faster, I'm very aware and I pay a lot of attention to my environment and the people in it, my memory is great. You know what's one of the things that hasn't changed? My heavy make-up ?
My point is that before blaming make-up, you'd better look at the diet and lifestyle of those women around you. It's true I don't use perfumes, conventional cleaning products, coventional skincare, just conventional eyeshadow, lipsticks, blush, highlighter (I make my own foundation and concealer). Still I tend to think that diet, lifestyle and the people in your surrounding matter more than whether you're putting on perfume in the morning or not.

Yes I am aware that diet plays a role - my personal observations play a huge role in this way of thinking.

My sister has a very chill, relaxed attitude when she's home and isn't wearing anything but as soon as she applies any perfumes or make-up she turns into a sensitive, emotional wreck - her dimorphic traits are also enhanced - I have noticed this with about every woman I've ever gotten to know who I have seen with and without make-up and perfume

My personal interactions with these perfumes or cosmetics with the funny smells raises my estradiol even when I get near a person like this ... I understand what you are saying but I do strongly believe make-up/perfumes/cosmetics play a significant role

Guys tend to be more "chill" than girls in the US - that shouldn't be so - what are the activities that girls engage in far more than guys that could make this so ? ...

 

[Razvan]

Yea I wish it was still like this because every woman around where I live has high estradiol ... they like putting on the makeup and perfumes (which i cant breathe around) - my conversations with high estradiol women are really awkward i hate it - when I meet a women who doesn't have all that stuff she's always a lot more chill and our conversations flow through better ... rarely find women like that anymore unfortunately

They are not attracted to you then. If you are attractive all women want you(high estradiol or not) you will feel some connection. Also,yes make up can raise estrogen or and cause side effects but it's an exaggeration to call all women high estradiol just because they use make up.

 

[Razvan]

They are not attracted to you then. If you are attractive all women want you(high estradiol or not) you will feel some connection. Also,yes make up can raise estrogen or and cause side effects but it's an exaggeration to call all women high estradiol just because they use make up.

Let me do a correction, not all women will want you if you are attractive,but the majority yes,the minority are maybe not confident and they will choose automatically a beta male.

 

[JamesGatz]

They are not attracted to you then. If you are attractive all women want you(high estradiol or not) you will feel some connection. Also,yes make up can raise estrogen or and cause side effects but it's an exaggeration to call all women high estradiol just because they use make up.

1 - Haha that's funny - did you hear me say that in my post ? Clearly these estradiol-type women are striking conversations with me otherwise I would not be speaking to them.

2 - Did I say all women were high estradiol ? Where did I say that anywhere in the thread ? Did you even read the thread ?

3 - I say they are awkward because a high estradiol woman is awkward in conversation - they present themselves in a beta/subservient position - they are a lot more agreeable and are always smiling a lot more looking for me to grant them approval - for a low-estradiol women I do not experience such things - our conversations tend to be more serious and flow through more

 

[Razvan]

1 - Haha that's funny - did you hear me say that in my post ? Clearly these estradiol-type women are striking conversations with me otherwise I would not be speaking to them.

2 - Did I say all women were high estradiol ? Where did I say that anywhere in the thread ? Did you even read the thread ?

3 - I say they are awkward because a high estradiol woman is awkward in conversation - they present themselves in a beta/subservient position - they are a lot more agreeable and are always smiling a lot more looking for me to grant them approval - for a low-estradiol women I do not experience such things - our conversations tend to be more serious and flow through more

Didn't know they are entering conversations with you. I right now somehow agree to what you just said. Fair enough. Similar point of views.

 

[miquelangeles]

It's possible, but unlikely to be a major determinant. Anything can cause anything after all.

But make up is part of the grooming behavior, and grooming behavior mainly driven by the hormones in the first place, and less so the other way around.
I think there were a few studies showing that simply faking a smile could trigger some positive changes, or changing your posture could increase testosterone, but were mostly junk and couldn't be replicated.

I wouldn't be surprised if just the act of looking in a mirror triggers hormonal changes, or just simulating the act of applying make up (without using any make up) triggers the changes, but those are probably very temporary, except maybe for frequently looking in the mirror.

But even if make up does shoot up estradiol, I would say it is just an intermediary marker for it, and not a cause (except for make up products that literally contain estradiol-like compounds). More upstream hormonal status will dictate the grooming behavior in the first place.

If you start moving your jaws as if you were chewing something, you will produce abundant saliva, but that will stop as soon as you stop "chewing".
But faking your smile, faking your posture, or faking chewing are not sustainable, because they are conscious activities that need to be sustained and they become a drain of energy.
Everybody here knows that raising your androgens through other means will automatically and subconsciously improve your posture without any conscious effort. But I haven't heard of anyone who raised their androgens by faking a certain posture.

 

[JamesGatz]

But make up is part of the grooming behavior, and grooming behavior mainly driven by the hormones in the first place, and less so the other way around.
I think there were a few studies showing that simply faking a smile could trigger some positive changes, or changing your posture could increase testosterone, but were mostly junk and couldn't be replicated.
sture.

You have brought up some very valuable points - I was not aware that it was certain hormones that drove grooming behavior ... interesting.

The reason why I believe it could be estradiol or another stress hormones is because girls that tend to wear a lot of make-up seem to be very stressed to me in terms of personality/attitude. When my androgens are high I don't feel stressed or emotional at all - I feel very relaxed - but when I am exposed to something that is of a serotonergic or a nature related to estradiol - I too seem to experience the stress I notice in them.

These are some extremely interesting points I hadn't thought of before..

 

[JamesGatz]

Everybody here knows that raising your androgens through other means will automatically and subconsciously improve your posture without any conscious effort. But I haven't heard of anyone who raised their androgens by faking a certain posture.

I agree that is why I do not think confidence can be faked - it seems that androgens fix up my posture and confidence and never the other way around

 

[Nomane Euger]

They are not attracted to you then. If you are attractive all women want you(high estradiol or not) you will feel some connection. Also,yes make up can raise estrogen or and cause side effects but it's an exaggeration to call all women high estradiol just because they use make up.

from my experience your hormonal profil make you sensitive to differents characteristics,and depending of my hormonal profil from one day to another i perceive a girl absolutly disgusting despit day before i perceived her as hot,i assume its the same for womens,so the attractive characteristics you have will determin wich womens sensitive to these characteristics you will attract depending on their hormonal profil,when i ate a lot of oranges and felt childish,i was sensitive to very feminine well developed face,i had heart and gut feelings just seeing these womens,and i had repulsive sensations seeing womens with not well developed face,i had no sensitivity to big boobs and buts.the less energy i have,even when i still feel energetic,when i start to feel manly,iam way less sensitive to well developed face,and i start to be sensitive to boobs,butt,almost no chest feeling,and way more sex feelings.SO you can be attractive to a bunch of womens,but not "high estradiol"womens and the other way arround