The Real Age of Earth - Just how accurate is Radiometric Dating ?

JamesGatz

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I think this is a good, serious discussion to have. I do see many these days like to express doubt of religions and the Bible for suggesting the Earth may not be as old as many would like to think but I think we should look at the process people arrive to the idea that Earth is hundreds of millions or even billions years old ? Let's take a look at radiometric dating:


**** TO BE CLEAR - I AM NOT SAYING THE EARTH IS XYZ amount of years old - I am expressing doubt that I have over the accuracy of using Radiometric dating to measure the age of the earth - If I say something that is completely incorrect or that you think is wrong - feel free to express your thoughts in the thread - I am hoping we can have a productive debate/discussion on the real age of the earth ****

Radiometric dating -
  1. a method of dating geological or archeological specimens by determining the relative proportions of particular radioactive isotopes present in a sample.

    half-lives.gif


    I think in layman's terms the best way to describe this is with the following -

    I pick up a rock and take it to a lab - I know that something in this rock decays into something else over XYZ period of time - so I know this rock is of this age because it has this amount of isotopes (parents) and this amount of daughters (products) - I do a few math calculations and voila! The Earth is however old I calculate it to be

    What issues can arrive from using this method ?

    pblende-312x253.jpg



    1) Let's say I am a member of the NWO and hate all religions and want an easy method to disprove all of their existences among normies

    What is stopping me from picking up a rock - taking it to a lab - filling it with decay products of the parent isotope that follow the half-life decay rates I say to make it look accurate - slapping it on a museum shelf or under a microscope for normies to look at and saying -

    "See ? The Earth is XYZ years old because of the amount of decay products on this rock - don't believe any religion those theories are just ridiculous haha"

    What is stopping a person from doing the above ? The NWO clearly own the museums as the museums are already hiding a lot of stuff from history

    Even if other people pick up rocks from other parts of the world that are younger to "prove me wrong" - people seem to trust the oldest prediction told by a rock, therefore, it seems my argument will hold more value.


    2) As we know - MANY of the earth's elements are present in space and arrive on earth all the time - asteroids and things of this nature

    Let's assume the Earth is 50 years old and an asteroid that is 120 years old falls on earth in a forest filled with uranium - let's say a person picks up a bunch of the rocks in the forest and says -

    "well gee all these rocks in the forest say the earth is 50 years old except for this small cluster of rocks here that say 120 years old - I guess I'll just go with the oldest rock in the population and say the earth is 120 years old - the newer rocks probably just got here more recently"

    What exactly is preventing the above situation from happening ?

    3)

    CNX_Chem_21_03_HalfLife.jpg



    And last but not least - the decay of an isotope can be altered as well as seems to be admittedly completely random ?


    Yes, the decay half-life of a radioactive material can be changed. Radioactive decay happens when an unstable atomic nucleus spontaneously changes to a lower-energy state and spits out a bit of radiation. This process changes the atom to a different element or a different isotope. Since radioactive decay is a spontaneous event, you may think that the half-life of the decay process is completely fixed and cannot be altered by outside influences. However, this statement is not completely true.

    First of all, it is worth pointing out that the time when an individual radioactive atom decays is completely random. It is impossible to predict when an individual radioactive atom will decay. The half-life of a certain type of atom does not describe the exact amount of time that every single atom experiences before decaying. Rather, the half-life describes the average amount of time it takes for a large group of amounts to reach the point where half of the atoms have decayed.

    The half-life of a radioactive material can be changed using time dilation effects. According to relativity, time itself can be slowed down. Everything that experiences time can therefore be given a longer effective lifetime if time is dilated. This can be done in two ways. Traveling at a speed close to the speed of light causes time to slow down significantly, relative to the stationary observer. For instance, a number of radioactive atoms shot through a tube at high speed in the lab will have their half-life lengthened relative to the lab because of time dilation. This effect has been verified many times using particle accelerators. Time can also be dilated by applying a very strong gravitational field. For instance, placing a bunch of radioactive atoms near a black hole will also extend their half-life relative to the distant observer because of time dilation.

    The half-life of radioactive decay can also be altered by changing the state of the electrons surrounding the nucleus. In a type of radioactive decay called "electron capture", the nucleus absorbs one of the atom's electrons and combines it with a proton to make a neutron and a neutrino. The more the wavefunctions of the atom's electrons overlap with the nucleus, the more able the nucleus is to capture an electron. Therefore, the half-life of an electron-capture radioactive decay mode depends slightly on what state the atom's electrons are in. By exciting or deforming the atom's electrons into states that overlap less with the nucleus, the half-life can be reduced. Since the chemical bonding between atoms involves the deformation of atomic electron wavefunctions, the radioactive half-life of an atom can depend on how it is bonded to other atoms. Simply by changing the neighboring atoms that are bonded to a radioactive isotope, we can change its half-life. However, the change in half-life accomplished in this way is typically small. For instance, a study performed by B. Wang et al and published in the European Physical Journal A was able to measure that the electron capture half-life of beryllium-7 was made 0.9% longer by surrounding the beryllium atoms with palladium atoms.

    In addition to altering the chemical bonds, the half-life can be altered by simply removing electrons from the atom. In the extreme limit of this approach, all of the electrons can be ripped off of a radioactive atom. For such an ion, there are no longer any electrons available to capture, and therefore the half-life of the electron capture radioactive decay mode becomes infinite. Certain radioactive isotopes that can only decay via the electron capture mode (such as rubidium-83) can be made to never decay by ripping off all the electrons. Other types of radioactive decay besides electron capture have also been found to have the decay half-life depend on the state of the surrounding electrons, but the effects are smaller. The change in half-life due to changing the electron environment is generally very small, typically much less than 1%."

    People like to say a meteor/catastrophic event wiped out the dinosaurs - wouldn't an event like this strongly affect the decay rate of nearly all isotopes on the planet - expressing doubt over the accuracy of using the Radiometric dating method to calculate the age of the earth






 
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Lollipop2

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Can’t contribute much but you might some interesting information on thunderbolts.info search geology.
 

Kykeon

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somewhere travis has posted about this in the past, can't find the post anymore. quite the writeup it was.
 

Jon2547

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The earth is about six thousand and twenty-five years old.
 
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JamesGatz

JamesGatz

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somewhere travis has posted about this in the past, can't find the post anymore. quite the writeup it was.
Really - I will try and see if I could find it because he was very smart I would be interested in seeing in what he has to say.
 
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JamesGatz

JamesGatz

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i found it. Parasite Prevalence Predicts Authoritarianism the sources are always interesting.
Usoskin, I. G. "Evidence for distinct modes of solar activity." Astronomy & Astrophysics (2014).
Thanks ! - this is extremely interesting - it's like he is saying the same thing i am saying except in a way more intelligent manner - fascinating - I will insert his quote here

The historical sun activity was estimated primarily using total radioactive carbon 14 found in tree rings. The source of ¹⁴C is rightly assumed to be cosmic rays, as they are literally fast moving protons and α-particles. After bombardment of atmospheric nitrogen, radioactive carbon fourteen is formed.

The solar activity represents the Y‐axis. The age of the trees, the X‐axis, was dated using the same radioactive carbon moiety—perhaps rightly so. Carbon fourteen dating is the only real way to date objects before history, and relies on the decay rate of the carbon isotope. Over time a proton will be lost resulting in ¹³C . . . and then ¹²C upon loss of another. Each emission is assumed to be random, but the sum average of all emissions is assumed to occur at a constant rate.

But it doesn't seem to bother anyone that the same chemical species use to date the petrified trees is also used to estimate historical solar activity through same ossified trees. Does high sunspot activity during a tree's growth decrease the apparent age of the tree? and would a high sunspot activity during its formative stage give the false impression of it being merely medieval, a mere sapling on the geological timescale?

If carbon fourteen is both time (the X‐axis) and solar activity (the Y‐axis) then what is it really? How does one decide between age and sunspots with only a Geiger counter?

Usoskin, I. G. "Evidence for distinct modes of solar activity." Astronomy & Astrophysics (2014)
 

charlie

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The earth is millions of years old. It is Written.
 

Kozak

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I'm a physicist, but not a nuclear physicist and I've never looked deep into carbon dating. (disclaimer :): )
To make a rock "look older" you need to reduce the half life. I believe this would be much-much simpler to achieve. You just add energy to the system. Basically you can irradiate the rock with gamma rays or fast neutrons. Fast neutrons have very high energy and extremely high penetrating abilities. This can be done at most universities with high energy particle accelerators.
 

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JamesGatz

JamesGatz

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I'm a physicist, but not a nuclear physicist and I've never looked deep into carbon dating. (disclaimer :): )
To make a rock "look older" you need to reduce the half life. I believe this would be much-much simpler to achieve. You just add energy to the system. Basically you can irradiate the rock with gamma rays or fast neutrons. Fast neutrons have very high energy and extremely high penetrating abilities. This can be done at most universities with high energy particle accelerators.
Interesting ... I had no idea it was this simple to achieve - it's crazy for me to think that this is the method that is relied on to be universally used to measure the age of anything - even when I see them measure the age of dinosaur fossils I see either this method or something called like "relative measuring" where they just predict the age based on other stuff they predicted to get a timeline
 

charlie

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Help us out with this one
 

PeskyPeater

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I think the answer is both [young and old]: The earth outer layer is pretty new, after the cataclysm it got rearranged with petrified carcasses of giant organisms of that time, that make up the earth and mountains now. This is a repeating phenomenon that has to do with some kind of reset of the sun that has been going on for billions? of years that is [probably] known by the elect. And looking at the electric universe theory of thornhill etc there was once a plasma cloud coming from another sun, and probably the atmosphere was red pink and held more CO2 which expanded the age and size of organism. But in this blue sky's we have shrunk and age faster
 
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PeskyPeater

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Peculiar thing is, it seems that there are still huge left overs of pieces of giant up in space, not the bones but the petrified hard tendons material that is mostly collagen, we call comets or asteroid. And peculiarly astronauts tell of the smell of space is like seared stake and metallic like, maybe from the burned up meat and iron rich blood.

Space smells like seared steak, hot metal, astronauts report

 

PeskyPeater

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How come there are huge petrified trees that look like mountains? (beware this is from a flat earth channel )
If things that are organic but burned long time ago , the radio dating is not going to be correct or will it?

 

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