The Ray Peat Mostly Liquid Diet?

[nwo2012]

Re: Paul Jaminet on Ray Peat - "Sugar vs. Starch"

Shrimp, oysters, shellfish:
yes, Peat recommends these,
but for there nutrients--not their protein or carbs, really.
In other words, again,
Peat does not recommend eating these in amounts other than peripheral.

the question then is: would increasing the consumption some of these foods beyond peripheral amounts turn an optimal peat diet into a suboptimal one? if the answer is no, then increasing shrimp and shellfish in the diet would be one way to increase the solids.

I think we keep things like oysters/fish/shellfish to once a week because potentially they are contaminated with toxins. Oysters are known as the sea's pollution filters after all.........

My take is that one serving of potatoes (soaked, well cooked and eaten with fat), masa (cooked in butter/coconut) or rice+lye (again with butter) and probably some fructose will not do us anything adverse. I mean one serving of one of these per day. Like Charlie is hinting, pick the ones that at worst are neutral to you and at best seem to improve your metabolism. And Peat completely agrees with this, or he would not say they are 'safe' for regular consumption. Of course we still source the other 80% of carbs from sugar. Remember our beloved white sucrose is 50% gluocose so it must be beneficial to us.

 

[shaadoe]

Could you please define a peripheral part of the diet. It is my understanding that Ray eats at least 1 serving of some type of flesh a day. As far as an amount I am not sure. But I have clearly heard him talk about eating ribeye and such.

 

[peatarian]

Sometimes it's hard for me to see where some impressions about a Ray Peat based diet come from.
I have now read every book, article, newsletter (and of course his e-mails to me) and I fail to see the restrictions many of you mention here.
I chose to change my life after reading Ray Peat.
This is the reason I survived several diseases which usually end deadly.

But diet was only part of the changes. So when I talk about Peat I talk about so many things and usually the reaction of other people is awe (for him, obviously). Of course I don't tell them: Eat eggs, drink milk and orange juice, avoid PUFA -- that's Ray Peat. That would be like saying Red, Blue, Yellow, Green - that's van Gogh.

But the question is about the diet. The things I listed in an earlier post: liver, thymus gland, oysters, shellfish, codfish or sole, shrimp, potatoes, tomatoes without seed, pumpkins, ... were meant as 'besides milk, orange juice, coca-cola, coffee, eggs, fruit'. I forgot to mention roots: Parsnips, Beet, Sweet Potato, Turnips ... He calls them 'generally very healthy'.

So if you eat lamb on Monday, veal liver on Tuesday, Shellfish on Wednesday, Fish on Friday, roots broth on Saturday, thymus glad with potatoes on Sunday, next Friday shrimps or an omlett with well cooked pumpkin, a cheese plate with grains, a veal broth with bones, a lamb broth with bones, chicken broth (whole chicken), fried potatoes with tomatoes ... Do you really miss something there? I can assure you Ray Peat would not object as long as you didn't forget the milk and the orange juice. I usually have one or two eggs and some fruit in the mornings and lots of milk throughout the day.

Everything I wrote about was recommended to me by Ray Peat. The potato pudding (cooked potato juice, no starch) is meant to reduce serotonin, it is not his generally recommended way for eating potatoes.

As for the amount: Ray Peat says that he is often misunderstood when it comes to protein. He suggests eating lots of high class protein throughout the day and that if he gets less than 100g a day he doesn't feel quite right.

If you want to build muscle you need protein.

Ray Peat says over and over and over again: He doesn't recommend special kinds of foods but rather eating all day. That is the 'secret' to keeping your metabolism up. He always eats or drinks something.

RP: 'A few years ago, most of the nutritional problems that I saw were caused by physicians, by refined convenience foods, and by poverty. Recently, most of the problems seem to be caused by badly designed vegetarian diets, or by acceptance of the idea that 40 grams of protein per day is sufficient. The liver and other organs deteriorate rapidly on low-protein diets. Observe the faces of the wheat-grass promoters, the millet-eaters, and the ‘anti-mucus’ dieters, and other low-protein people. Do they look old for their age?'

I suggest you don't make your nutrition an extra factor of stress. It's true that you shouldn't eat muscle meat if you don't eat gelatine with it (which I always do). You should always have coca-cola or coffee with meat and liver so you don't get too much iron. Lamb fat or veal fat are generally healthy. If you eat lamb or veal with their fat and gelatine you can't do anything wrong. If potatoes don't give you any trouble eat them as french fries or cooked or bake them or make them in the stove. Just the way you like to eat them.
You can also eat vegetables but Peat says 'cook them to death' -- to get rid of the starches.

I recently found out that many cows today are fed so much corn that their milk is partly PUFA. Some of the fruit I get is no doubt contaminated because of general pollution. There will be parasites in some of the oysters I eat. The fish and shellfish I get will have suffered from Fukushima and oil in the oceans. I have no idea what kind of nasty substances you'd find in the water here or in the rain. I will have to accept some things I can't avoid.

So stay away from PUFA, try to get saturated fats, drink enough milk, drink orange juice - but eat something, don't chastise yourself. That's the least Ray Peat would recommend.
You know, every now and then he eats bacon and other stuff. If he doesn't get the optimal food he used more aspirin.

It's about the general direction not about being a saint. Btw. I can't imagine RP is religious ...

Don't get hung up on the diet. Ray Peat has so much more to say. Have you read his articles on William Blake? Or the ones about language and authority or autonomic systems? Or "Who defines food"? Or the great article on intuitive knowledge? It made me start learning a new language immediately.

 

[peatarian]

Could you please define a peripheral part of the diet. It is my understanding that Ray eats at least 1 serving of some type of flesh a day. As far as an amount I am not sure. But I have clearly heard him talk about eating ribeye and such.

Yes, I heard that interview, too. He eats meat every day. I heard him say ribeye and that he likes veal and lamb and beef and that he usually cooks it shortly in coconut oil or butter. He never mentioned how much but I can't imagine a ribeye steak with less than 250g. Sometimes it will be less, maybe lamb with fat and only 120 or 150g.

 

[peatarian]

Re: Paul Jaminet on Ray Peat - "Sugar vs. Starch"

Peatarian, being that you have done this for more then 3 years. I am hoping one day you will post in the testimonials about your progress because I am very curious about the results you are getting. Especially being, that you really understand his work and apply it well.

Charlie, thanks a lot! I have started several times but so much of my story still makes me angry and/or sad and I don't have the nerve right now. I hope you'll forgive me. I'll try again later.

 

[charlie]

Peatarian, you have an incredible amount of knowledge. Thank you so much for all your contributions here to the community.

Charlie, thanks a lot! I have started several times but so much of my story still makes me angry and/or sad and I don't have the nerve right now. I hope you'll forgive me. I'll try again later.

No worries. Understood.

 

[peatarian]

Thank you, Charlie!

 

[charlie]

This is the diet section though, so, I hope we get a pass to obsess on diet here.

I get what your saying though, food isn't the only cog in this wheel so we shouldn't be narrow sighted.

 

[charlie]

Peatarian, somewhere just recently you posted that we suggest things that Ray never suggested. I cant find the exact quote right now. I do urge you to correct us anywhere that we are wrong since thats what we are here for. The last thing I want is to pass on wrong information.

 

[nwo2012]

Sometimes it's hard for me to see where some impressions about a Ray Peat based diet come from.
I have now read every book, article, newsletter (and of course his e-mails to me) and I fail to see the restrictions many of you mention here.
I chose to change my life after reading Ray Peat.
This is the reason I survived several diseases which usually end deadly.

But diet was only part of the changes. So when I talk about Peat I talk about so many things and usually the reaction of other people is awe (for him, obviously). Of course I don't tell them: Eat eggs, drink milk and orange juice, avoid PUFA -- that's Ray Peat. That would be like saying Red, Blue, Yellow, Green - that's van Gogh.

But the question is about the diet. The things I listed in an earlier post: liver, thymus gland, oysters, shellfish, codfish or sole, shrimp, potatoes, tomatoes without seed, pumpkins, ... were meant as 'besides milk, orange juice, coca-cola, coffee, eggs, fruit'. I forgot to mention roots: Parsnips, Beet, Sweet Potato, Turnips ... He calls them 'generally very healthy'.

So if you eat lamb on Monday, veal liver on Tuesday, Shellfish on Wednesday, Fish on Friday, roots broth on Saturday, thymus glad with potatoes on Sunday, next Friday shrimps or an omlett with well cooked pumpkin, a cheese plate with grains, a veal broth with bones, a lamb broth with bones, chicken broth (whole chicken), fried potatoes with tomatoes ... Do you really miss something there? I can assure you Ray Peat would not object as long as you didn't forget the milk and the orange juice. I usually have one or two eggs and some fruit in the mornings and lots of milk throughout the day.

Everything I wrote about was recommended to me by Ray Peat. The potato pudding (cooked potato juice, no starch) is meant to reduce serotonin, it is not his generally recommended way for eating potatoes.

As for the amount: Ray Peat says that he is often misunderstood when it comes to protein. He suggests eating lots of high class protein throughout the day and that if he gets less than 100g a day he doesn't feel quite right.

If you want to build muscle you need protein.

Ray Peat says over and over and over again: He doesn't recommend special kinds of foods but rather eating all day. That is the 'secret' to keeping your metabolism up. He always eats or drinks something.

RP: 'A few years ago, most of the nutritional problems that I saw were caused by physicians, by refined convenience foods, and by poverty. Recently, most of the problems seem to be caused by badly designed vegetarian diets, or by acceptance of the idea that 40 grams of protein per day is sufficient. The liver and other organs deteriorate rapidly on low-protein diets. Observe the faces of the wheat-grass promoters, the millet-eaters, and the ‘anti-mucus’ dieters, and other low-protein people. Do they look old for their age?'

I suggest you don't make your nutrition an extra factor of stress. It's true that you shouldn't eat muscle meat if you don't eat gelatine with it (which I always do). You should always have coca-cola or coffee with meat and liver so you don't get too much iron. Lamb fat or veal fat are generally healthy. If you eat lamb or veal with their fat and gelatine you can't do anything wrong. If potatoes don't give you any trouble eat them as french fries or cooked or bake them or make them in the stove. Just the way you like to eat them.
You can also eat vegetables but Peat says 'cook them to death' -- to get rid of the starches.

I recently found out that many cows today are fed so much corn that their milk is partly PUFA. Some of the fruit I get is no doubt contaminated because of general pollution. There will be parasites in some of the oysters I eat. The fish and shellfish I get will have suffered from Fukushima and oil in the oceans. I have no idea what kind of nasty substances you'd find in the water here or in the rain. I will have to accept some things I can't avoid.

So stay away from PUFA, try to get saturated fats, drink enough milk, drink orange juice - but eat something, don't chastise yourself. That's the least Ray Peat would recommend.
You know, every now and then he eats bacon and other stuff. If he doesn't get the optimal food he used more aspirin.

It's about the general direction not about being a saint. Btw. I can't imagine RP is religious ...

Don't get hung up on the diet. Ray Peat has so much more to say. Have you read his articles on William Blake? Or the ones about language and authority or autonomic systems? Or "Who defines food"? Or the great article on intuitive knowledge? It made me start learning a new language immediately.

Yes exactly. When I asked him to critique my diet a few weeks ago with meat every night (alternating fish, chicken hearts, lambs brains, liver, ox kidney, beef, oysters+prawns) his main concern was I didnt have enough sugar due to eating more cheese than drinking milk. Since changed it to more milk. There were no concerns about too much meat.

 

[peatarian]

Yes exactly. When I asked him to critique my diet a few weeks ago with meat every night (alternating fish, chicken hearts, lambs brains, liver, ox kidney, beef, oysters+prawns) his main concern was I didnt have enough sugar due to eating more cheese than drinking milk. Since changed it to more milk. There were no concerns about too much meat.

I used to get that a lot: 'more sugar would be helpful' or 'your diet could use a bit more calcium'.
I eat about 400g of sugar now and with powdered egg shells and milk and cheese I seem to finally have arrived the right-calcium-section.

You can be sure he would have told you if you were eating something wrong. You know like 'might not be helpful' and then lots of studies about how it is responsible for cancer and other degenerative diseases ...
You seem to be doing great. Hope you feel great, too.

 

[peatarian]

Peatarian, somewhere just recently you posted that we suggest things that Ray never suggested. I cant find the exact quote right now. I do urge you to correct us anywhere that we are wrong since thats what we are here for. The last thing I want is to pass on wrong information.

Yes, I do seem to have been that impolite. It was in the supplement-section about the training masks:

'I am not sure about the training masks. They sounded great at first but after reading how they are supposed to work I think they train you to inhale deeper after wearing them. If you inhale deeper you will take in more oxygen. The opposite of the desired result. Has anyone asked RP what he thinks about this?'

 

[charlie]

Actually I think it was another place. Keep it up!

 

[peatarian]

Nope. I checked. Wasn't me.

 

[charlie]

Ok, sorry about that. There has been a ton of posts today, forgive me. The most we ever had in one day.

 

[narouz]

Sometimes it's hard for me to see where some impressions about a Ray Peat based diet come from.
I have now read every book, article, newsletter (and of course his e-mails to me) and I fail to see the restrictions many of you mention here.
I chose to change my life after reading Ray Peat.
This is the reason I survived several diseases which usually end deadly.

But diet was only part of the changes. So when I talk about Peat I talk about so many things and usually the reaction of other people is awe (for him, obviously). Of course I don't tell them: Eat eggs, drink milk and orange juice, avoid PUFA -- that's Ray Peat. That would be like saying Red, Blue, Yellow, Green - that's van Gogh.

But the question is about the diet. The things I listed in an earlier post: liver, thymus gland, oysters, shellfish, codfish or sole, shrimp, potatoes, tomatoes without seed, pumpkins, ... were meant as 'besides milk, orange juice, coca-cola, coffee, eggs, fruit'. I forgot to mention roots: Parsnips, Beet, Sweet Potato, Turnips ... He calls them 'generally very healthy'.

So if you eat lamb on Monday, veal liver on Tuesday, Shellfish on Wednesday, Fish on Friday, roots broth on Saturday, thymus glad with potatoes on Sunday, next Friday shrimps or an omlett with well cooked pumpkin, a cheese plate with grains, a veal broth with bones, a lamb broth with bones, chicken broth (whole chicken), fried potatoes with tomatoes ... Do you really miss something there? I can assure you Ray Peat would not object as long as you didn't forget the milk and the orange juice. I usually have one or two eggs and some fruit in the mornings and lots of milk throughout the day.

Everything I wrote about was recommended to me by Ray Peat. The potato pudding (cooked potato juice, no starch) is meant to reduce serotonin, it is not his generally recommended way for eating potatoes.

As for the amount: Ray Peat says that he is often misunderstood when it comes to protein. He suggests eating lots of high class protein throughout the day and that if he gets less than 100g a day he doesn't feel quite right.

If you want to build muscle you need protein.

Ray Peat says over and over and over again: He doesn't recommend special kinds of foods but rather eating all day. That is the 'secret' to keeping your metabolism up. He always eats or drinks something.

RP: 'A few years ago, most of the nutritional problems that I saw were caused by physicians, by refined convenience foods, and by poverty. Recently, most of the problems seem to be caused by badly designed vegetarian diets, or by acceptance of the idea that 40 grams of protein per day is sufficient. The liver and other organs deteriorate rapidly on low-protein diets. Observe the faces of the wheat-grass promoters, the millet-eaters, and the ‘anti-mucus’ dieters, and other low-protein people. Do they look old for their age?'

I suggest you don't make your nutrition an extra factor of stress. It's true that you shouldn't eat muscle meat if you don't eat gelatine with it (which I always do). You should always have coca-cola or coffee with meat and liver so you don't get too much iron. Lamb fat or veal fat are generally healthy. If you eat lamb or veal with their fat and gelatine you can't do anything wrong. If potatoes don't give you any trouble eat them as french fries or cooked or bake them or make them in the stove. Just the way you like to eat them.
You can also eat vegetables but Peat says 'cook them to death' -- to get rid of the starches.

I recently found out that many cows today are fed so much corn that their milk is partly PUFA. Some of the fruit I get is no doubt contaminated because of general pollution. There will be parasites in some of the oysters I eat. The fish and shellfish I get will have suffered from Fukushima and oil in the oceans. I have no idea what kind of nasty substances you'd find in the water here or in the rain. I will have to accept some things I can't avoid.

So stay away from PUFA, try to get saturated fats, drink enough milk, drink orange juice - but eat something, don't chastise yourself. That's the least Ray Peat would recommend.
You know, every now and then he eats bacon and other stuff. If he doesn't get the optimal food he used more aspirin.

It's about the general direction not about being a saint. Btw. I can't imagine RP is religious ...

Don't get hung up on the diet. Ray Peat has so much more to say. Have you read his articles on William Blake? Or the ones about language and authority or autonomic systems? Or "Who defines food"? Or the great article on intuitive knowledge? It made me start learning a new language immediately.

It is great getting your commentary here, peatarian.
You and nwo2012 have had so much communication directly with Peat...
just invaluable.

Combine that with the fact that
you've done your Peat reading,
you've been experimenting upon yourself for some time now,
(and thoughtfully, carefully so it would seem)...
thanks again for the wonderful reporting and views.

What is really striking to me,
as a result of reading your posts
and nwo2012's and Cliff's and others,
is just how big a Gap there can be between
1. interpretations or extrapolations of a Peat Diet based upon his books, articles, essays, and interviews,
(this is what I have been up to--because I've never communicated with Peat)
and
2. forming an idea of a Peat Diet based upon a number of private consultations with Peat.

Well, I guess I should note that the large Gap
may seem huge to me because I'm so zoomed in on the little Details of Peatdom:
like whether you should boil your rice in lye, ha.
So I'm not saying that Peat is guilty of inconsistency.

But, because Peat has not created a "Peat Cookbook" (or somesuch)
as is typical (and entrepreneurial!) with most nutritional thinkers, well...
...real-life "Peat Approved" (I guess we can call them that!) diets
like yours and nwo2012's and Cliff's
do end up looking a little different than one would expect
just based upon reading his published work.

One thing I wanted to quibble with a little bit:

Ray Peat says over and over and over again: He doesn't recommend special kinds of foods but rather eating all day. That is the 'secret' to keeping your metabolism up. He always eats or drinks something.

I couldn't really go that far.
Perhaps you will persuade me yet, peatarian!
But, seems to me that Peat is much more specific in his dietary suggestions
than saying to simply eat (whatever?) all day.
While he doesn't recommend many "special foods" in the sense of "exotic" foods,
he certainly has very strongly recommended foods
and very strongly unrecommended foods.
And his views of the rough ratios of food types to be consumed...
that seems very new, unusual, "special."

I guess another general take on your post would be
that it pushes me toward the view that Peat is much more accepting
of the "Peat favored" starches
than I have been interpreting/extrapolating from his published work.
Peat does indeed say a lot of bad things
about fiber and starch (the chemical or molecule or grain, I mean).
On the other hand...
...he didn't seem to blink an eye about your diet containing
pumpkin, parsnips, beets, sweet potato, turnips
(you told Peat all those were regular parts of your diet, right?).
And you say he called those foods "generally very healthy"
(now--just because it is something I've been trying to pin down--
is that what Peat said to you about those roots and starches in private
or is that a general statement he made in a published work?)

Many more gems I could respond to,
but...thanks again for the great info.

 

[narouz]

Could you please define a peripheral part of the diet. It is my understanding that Ray eats at least 1 serving of some type of flesh a day. As far as an amount I am not sure. But I have clearly heard him talk about eating ribeye and such.

shaadoe-
What I mean by "peripheral" is sort of "at the edges."
Not the main part.
Not the "staple" of one's diet.

So, for example, one could have...let's say 4-8ozs of ribeye one day.
And let's assume you have like 2 quarts of milk, 1 quart of OJ, coffee, sugar, gelatin with the steak, etc...

...then that amount of ribeye could probably be regarded as a peripheral part of that day's diet,
in that it is not the main protein source,
is not the main carb source,
is not the main sugar source,
is not the main calorie source...

In that sense it would be a peripheral part of the diet.
I haven't pinned it downed to a certain percentage.

My angle is that
because people hear that meat is fine on a Peat diet,
then they envision a Peat diet with meat at the core of every meal,
much like some version of a "Protein Power" diet or a "Primal" diet or whatever.
But I think that is really off base--not accurate to Peat's ideas.

 

[charlie]

That makes a lot of sense. Good post, narouz.

 

[narouz]

Re: Paul Jaminet on Ray Peat - "Sugar vs. Starch"

I think I will be moving this "liquid" talk to its own thread unless anyone disagrees??

Feel free mate.
I just dont get why anyone here cares what their friends think. I say f*** anyone that cant handle ANY info you give them, be proud to be different and never fear it.

nwo2012-
sort of lost touch with this thread,
but to respond:
I completely agree with you.

My point (I did a very bad job of making it, apparently ) was
to ask:
Am I the only one who experiences this separation
from "normal" people--as far as diet goes?
Separation even from "alternative" dieters?
By "separation" I simply mean that they don't eat like I do,
and vice versa.
Not AT ALL like I do.

And that that separation is one significant feature of a semi-accurate Peat diet.
You won't be able to eat what most of your friends are eating.
You will have trouble finding stuff to eat at most restaurants,
even fully and diversely stocked "health food" or "alternative" restaurants.
Well...according to how strict one is.
If you're not strict...moot point.

I guess I'm the odd guy out here on this question.
Few here even seem to think our Peat dieting is at all odd or challenging.
I get the feeling that if I asked posters here
to make a list of their most sensually enticing foods
they would write:
1. orange juice
2. milk
3. sugar
4. gelatin
5. liver

 

[narouz]

That makes a lot of sense. Good post, narouz.

Thanks, man!