The Promotion Of Dairy Vs. The Promotion Of Kale

[Westside PUFAs]

I've seen a few people in Peat circles like Rob Turner, those two Australian women, the "cows eat grass" guy, and @Greg says post things about how kale and greens are pure propaganda and how they are toxic. This is odd because they are supposedly big Peat "fans" but they seem to ignore what Peat has said about greens. (yes I know of the negative quotes but overall the greens quotes are about 85% positive) But the main thing I want to point out here is not whether or not kale and greens are healthy at all or compared to dairy but rather the point that they all make about their promotion, as though dairy has not and is not being promoted on a completely different level. I guess most of them I named aren't American except Rob and I don't know how the advertisement and promotion was and is in the UK and OZ for kale and greens vs. dairy but in the US, there's no comparison.

Just because there is a slew of basic green smoothie b-words on instagram, doesn't mean that kale and greens won and dairy lost. Are you guys serious? In all 3 countries, US, UK and OZ dairy is consumed more and is promoted more.

Again, I'm not talking about the health claims of either. I'm talking about their promotion, which is what you guys were talking about in your original posts. There is no comparison. You act as though dairy was not and is not promoted on a galactic scale.

Come on. Be more objective.

 

[michael94]

You definitely have a point.

 

[benaoao]

99% of dairy is consumption of food from sick animals. Why?

 

[Herbie]

Heres a few classic OZ milk ads

 

[ecstatichamster]

99% of dairy is consumption of food from sick animals. Why?

Huh? How do you know?

 

[Sicutnoxsilente]

I am a vegetarian who still consumes milk and cheese but honestly I do find it a very unethical food to eat if you take a look about how milk is produced, cattles need to be impregnated to produce milk, the calf is taken away from them and fed milk replacer, after 10-ish months they are impregnated again because the milk production wanes, etc, this cycle of continuous artificial impregnation continues until they are ''spent'' and don't produce much milk anymore, then they are sold to the beef industry and slaughtered for ''low-grade'' meat, the same fate awaits the calves but much earlier, males are sold and used for veal (truly a disgusting practice and essentially a byproduct of the dairy industry) or beef, females become the new dairy cows.
Eventually I want to phase all milk products out of my diet like I did with meat and eggs (eggs not so much for ethical reasons but because I never liked the taste and they are the food with the most cholesterol you can find).

 

[crestind]

Cow's milk is defo for cows. Kale is a hipster meme, along the lines of eating out of mason jars. Turnip greens and collard greens are cheaper and no less healthy. Only use of kale is how damn fibrous the ***t is, good for chewing.

 

[Waremu]

I've personally come to the realization that milk isn't for me and it's not the health food even Peat says it is. I agree with the vast majority of things Peat says, and understand his reasoning for advocating dairy, but I think there are, believe it or not, some very good arguments some vegans and even some here such as Travis have made against Diary and I just cannot ignore it. In the end, I go where the evidence leads me, not what anyone says. I don't believe there is any perfect food and all foods give and take, but I try to focus on foods which give the most and take the least. Even when I would try to convince myself it's a natural health food, something deep within just could never agree with it. Now I am one month on a dairy-free experiment and have experienced the opiate withdrawal effects of stopping milk (which have been quite severe) first-hand that I have seen many including Travis talk about and this in conjunction to the good arguments against dairy has made me decide to give it up --- at least for now. As someone who has been strict Peat for 7 years and in good thyroid health otherwise, milk just never agreed with me fully. My skin has cleared up since stopping it and I no longer get rash-breakouts on my face (not talking about acne here, which I never had an issue with). I can easily get calcium with greens and fruit and I think it's better safe than sorry. After all, the only benefit milk gave was calcium. If one gets enough calcium via other means (greens, fruit, etc.), dairy isn't necessary or essential on a Peat-style diet, as Peat has even admitted.

I personally don't understand how some Peaterians can bash Kale while ignoring the immunogenic protein, estrogenic/prolactin, and opiate issues with milk casein, among other things, which I think are far worse than Kale/greens --- not to mention that over half of the world's population cannot handle dairy lactose optimally as well. I think a much better case can be made that most leafy food greens are more natural to humans than milk. (And I don't buy the argument that we should ignore what is more natural either --- just that it has to be put in proper context).

 

[yerrag]

I can easily get calcium with greens and fruit

Is there plenty of calcium in fruit? I thought fruit is high in potassium but not calcium.

 

[Wagner83]

Goat/sheep cheese shouldn't be as problematic, but hard cheese is constipating and soft cheese can still give allergic reactions. I consume lactose and fat-free quack cheese because it's a very cheap source of proteins. Without it I eat more meat which I don't particularly like a. Milk is different from cheese, soft and hard cheese are not the same, goats and cows either. I get issues from high-nitrates foods which most leafy greens are. Kale is fine but its price isn't.

 

[Kartoffel]

Goat/sheep cheese shouldn't be as problematic, but hard cheese is constipating and soft cheese can still give allergic reactions. I consume lactose and fat-free quack cheese because it's a very cheap source of proteins. Without it I eat more meat which I don't particularly like a. Milk is different from cheese, soft and hard cheese are not the same, goats and cows either. I get issues from high-nitrates foods which most leafy greens are. Kale is fine but its price isn't.

If you think cheese is constipating, try eating kale every day (maybe even raw like Travis does), and see how that works. I ate about a pound of well cooked kale a month ago. I felt like a ballon and had to fart constantly for two days. It took about a week until I had a regular bowel movement again. Fiber is probably the most constipating factor, and going on a no fiber diet has been shown to cure constipation.

I personally don't understand how some Peaterians can bash Kale while ignoring the immunogenic protein, estrogenic/prolactin, and opiate issues with milk casein, among other things, which I think are far worse than Kale/greens --- (And I don't buy the argument that we should ignore what is more natural either --- just that it has to be put in proper context).

Perhaps they don't pay much attention to this issue because there isn't any evidence showing that casein consumption produces any of those effects in vivo in humans.

 

[Wagner83]

I have noticed that too much of cerain fibers can be constipating, in fact the raw carrot salad slows down transit time for me. Still, hard cheeses are pretty bad, numerous people reported those effects here.

 

[yerrag]

I have noticed that too much of cerain fibers can be constipating, in fact the raw carrot salad slows down transit time for me. Still, hard cheeses are pretty bad, numerous people reported those effects here.

I wonder if it's the calcium content that makes cheese constipatory for you. If you take it with a magnesium supplement, would that be helpful? Or some cooked leafy greens?

 

[Mountain]

@Westside PUFAs

You see a lot more advertising for dairy because more people consume dairy than kale/other niche greens so there are more dairy farms. These dairy farmers fund dairy associations that put out the advertisements to drive sales of their product, just like any business would do.
I don't know about anyone claiming that kale is propaganda but it should be obvious to anyone why you see a lot more dairy advertising.

I am a vegetarian who still consumes milk and cheese but honestly I do find it a very unethical food to eat if you take a look about how milk is produced, cattles need to be impregnated to produce milk, the calf is taken away from them and fed milk replacer, after 10-ish months they are impregnated again because the milk production wanes, etc, this cycle of continuous artificial impregnation continues until they are ''spent'' and don't produce much milk anymore, then they are sold to the beef industry and slaughtered for ''low-grade'' meat, the same fate awaits the calves but much earlier, males are sold and used for veal (truly a disgusting practice and essentially a byproduct of the dairy industry) or beef, females become the new dairy cows.
Eventually I want to phase all milk products out of my diet like I did with meat and eggs (eggs not so much for ethical reasons but because I never liked the taste and they are the food with the most cholesterol you can find).

Just don't buy factory farmed milk then. You probably have a farmers' market near you where you could find locally produced milk. It's best not to make health decisions based on abstract ideology like "meat/eggs/dairy hurt animals therefore I won't consume those things". We are animals and have been hurting animals for their food products forever.

I personally don't understand how some Peaterians can bash Kale while ignoring the immunogenic protein, estrogenic/prolactin, and opiate issues with milk casein, among other things, which I think are far worse than Kale/greens --- not to mention that over half of the world's population cannot handle dairy lactose optimally as well. I think a much better case can be made that most leafy food greens are more natural to humans than milk. (And I don't buy the argument that we should ignore what is more natural either --- just that it has to be put in proper context).

The immunogenic casomorphins can be largely avoided by buying milk from A2 casein cows like guernsey cattle and (I think) the Bos indicus cattle produce mostly A2 as well. Also Travis had a post showing that the androgen:estrogen ratio was better in whole milk, so if that agrees with you it might be a better option.

 

[Wagner83]

I wonder if it's the calcium content that makes cheese constipatory for you. If you take it with a magnesium supplement, would that be helpful? Or some cooked leafy greens?

It's possible I haven't tried. Perhaps could be the type and quantity of fat combined with the casein.

 

[SOMO]

Kale is gross IMO unless it's boiled down to a pulp.

 

[Sicutnoxsilente]

Just don't buy factory farmed milk then. You probably have a farmers' market near you where you could find locally produced milk. It's best not to make health decisions based on abstract ideology like "meat/eggs/dairy hurt animals therefore I won't consume those things". We are animals and have been hurting animals for their food products forever.

There isn't that much of a difference from an ethical standpoint, even at your local farmer place cows still are continuously and forcibly impregnated, their male calves still sold for veal meat and slaughtered after mere weeks (which is the thing that bothers me the most about the whole affair), the only difference is that they will have a better quality of life before getting slaughtered, still the process and the cows fate is basically the same. Anyway I didn't go vegetarian out of ethical concerns, I went first and foremost for health reasons as I believe it's the healthiest diet to follow to prevent a lot of diseases, the ethical side is important but not the sole motivator for me. Besides I don't have any problem with people hunting for food but industrial farming is some dystopian level stuff I want nothing to do with if I can help it (and luckily I can).

 

[Kartoffel]

I have noticed that too much of cerain fibers can be constipating, in fact the raw carrot salad slows down transit time for me. Still, hard cheeses are pretty bad, numerous people reported those effects here.

I have noticed the same about carrots. For me no fiber at all is best. I also found that hard cheeses are not good for me. I was eating a lot of real parmiggiano reggiano for a long time, and my digestion and energy levels were declining. When I switched to homemade cottage cheese things drastically improved. I doubt that the problems people experience with hard cheeses are due to casein exorphines.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

but it should be obvious to anyone why you see a lot more dairy advertising.

It should be obvious that you're wrong. Do you know what the USDA is? And subsidies.

 

[Waremu]

Is there plenty of calcium in fruit? I thought fruit is high in potassium but not calcium.

Providing you eat enough fruit, and some greens, then absolutely there is enough calcium. I eat a high fruit diet. Here is just a small sample of the carb portion of what I eat in a typical day. As one can see, I'm well over 1000 mg of calcium. I usually get up tp 1500-2000mg easy without dairy. Throw in some nettle tea (which is packed with decent quality calcium) if I want to go even higher.