The problem with Peat principles

[EustaceBagge]

What about tea or coffee?

Once a day preferably early in the morning. Coffee in high doses give me acid reflux and I heard about different brewing methods making the coffee less acidic but I don't have time for that stuff. So I just cut back consumption and I don't really care about tea vs coffee. I prefer tea with a lot of sugar taken outside meal times.

Also a lot of caffeine messes up my sleep, even if I consume it habitually. That is another reason for me to cut back. Instead you could drink milk or orange juice throughout the day?

 

[DonLore]

He recommends high calcium mainly in order to balance out the ratio to phosphorus. High phosphorus foods are mainly the animal protein rich foods. Cut down your protein intake and you will mostly eliminate that issue and won't need to consume copious amounts of calcium to balance it all out.. then a glass or two of full cream milk is fine, and won't add too much fat to your overall diet.

What do you mean the "most nutrient dense foods"? What do you think a nutrient is? Definition : "a substance that provides nourishment essential for the maintenance of life and for growth." Carbohydrates from all sources are very nutrient dense, arguably the most. As far as protein, you only need a certain amount (which is very easy to get) and after that it is not beneficial anymore but rather works to the body's detriment. Same with fat.

As far as micro nutrients go, dont worry about them so much - focus on your macros. Do an experiment and plug your food into an app like chronometer or something similar, I would be amazed if you were lacking any micros. Only worry about addressing them if there is actually a gap somewhere.

How much choline do you think you need? One egg would be plenty. There is also plenty of choline in other food sources like mushrooms and potatoes for example.

"Nutrient-void/weak foods" - I addressed this in the second point. Sugars, fruits and other carbohydrates are the most nutrient dense foods.

Depends on how you define nutrient. But the most common definition seems to be micronutrients. Liver, kidney, milk, oysters and eggs are much, much more nutrient dense than sugar or even any fruit. And if you consume a lot of SFA and sugars, then choline from one egg might not be enough

 

[FrenchKiwi]

Once a day preferably early in the morning. Coffee in high doses give me acid reflux and I heard about different brewing methods making the coffee less acidic but I don't have time for that stuff. So I just cut back consumption and I don't really care about tea vs coffee. I prefer tea with a lot of sugar taken outside meal times.

Also a lot of caffeine messes up my sleep, even if I consume it habitually. That is another reason for me to cut back. Instead you could drink milk or orange juice throughout the day?

I finally discovered why coffee was making me overeat calories. It gives me acid reflux too and I was interpreting this as hunger. So now I have 1 decaf with breakfast and tea the rest of the day. I love milky tea

 

[Matestube]

Once a day preferably early in the morning. Coffee in high doses give me acid reflux and I heard about different brewing methods making the coffee less acidic but I don't have time for that stuff. So I just cut back consumption and I don't really care about tea vs coffee. I prefer tea with a lot of sugar taken outside meal times.

Also a lot of caffeine messes up my sleep, even if I consume it habitually. That is another reason for me to cut back. Instead you could drink milk or orange juice throughout the day?

Cold brew coffee isn't time consuming at all.
Pour water over ground coffee in a pot, let it sit overnight : took 2 minutes.
Filter it in the morning in a jar or any container : took 2 minutes.

Coffee acidity solved.

 

[Matestube]

I finally discovered why coffee was making me overeat calories. It gives me acid reflux too and I was interpreting this as hunger. So now I have 1 decaf with breakfast and tea the rest of the day. I love milky tea

Try cold-brewing.
Doesn't carry the acidity issues and their consequences such as reflux.

Still provides the liver benefits of black coffee.

 

[laleto12]

Cold brew coffee isn't time consuming at all.
Pour water over ground coffee in a pot, let it sit overnight : took 2 minutes.
Filter it in the morning in a jar or any container : took 2 minutes.

Coffee acidity solved.

what is the ratio of coffee and water in that method

 

[FrenchKiwi]

I have an aeropress and the cold brew recipes say I can do it in a few minutes rather than leaving to brew overnight. This seems strange

 

[Ritchie]

Depends on how you define nutrient. But the most common definition seems to be micronutrients. Liver, kidney, milk, oysters and eggs are much, much more nutrient dense than sugar or even any fruit. And if you consume a lot of SFA and sugars, then choline from one egg might not be enough

I defined it in the post you replied to, the literal definition. "A substance that provides nourishment essential for the maintenance of life and for growth."
So yes micronutrients are important but obviously come second to macros and especially carbs (which literally provide the energy our bodies need to function and grow). Glucose is the king of nutrients, being the body's main source of energy. I mean even if you don't eat any carbs your body will convert protein and fat to glucose because that's what it needs. Most of the time if you are eating a diet with good macro proportionality all your micros are covered, and then sure you can supplement with a little liver and oysters.
Micros have become an obsession because the supplement industry has been very successful and effective in changing the common perspective of food and nutrition.

 

[AlaskaJono]

You people overcomplicate stuff. Ray Peat is about stress management for people that are 1 foot in the grave but don't know it.

Most people have stress to spare, and learning your own body will do you good in the long run. Just experiment and see what works for you while basing yourself on Peat's principles as much as possible.

Fruit doesn't work for me for example, but I like high dairy diets with meat and very very little vegetables. Almost ketolike but my carbs are high through rice/pasta/milk.

I found out my digestion time is quick (less than 1 day), no bloating, and perfect stools (1 large piece that is gone in 10 seconds max with no wipe required). Very strange considering I barely eat fiber.

I got to this point through a lot of experimentation and encourage you to do the same.

The problem with anti-Peat principles is that the people espousing them have broken intestines and haven't studied anything.

Great postings from all. My understanding of Ray Peat's orientation the health and food selection/eating = cuisine does NOT EQUAL a Ray Peat Diet, or Ray Peat's Rules of Gustation. Etc.. He gives Guidelines as understanding of his knowledge and experience. These are NOT RULES. It is much like the pirates' Code in the Pirates of the Caribbean. I was a lurker here since 2013, and read mostly from RP's website. It is Thick reading, but worth it to understand his overall approach. Quite Wholistic really.

The main aspects I would like to add/support are 1) the experimentation aspect of one's diet and methods, and 2)Broken intestines as above. (3) Would be STUDY and Read!!!. If one eats 2 or 3 meals a day, then one should POO 2 or 3 X daily. Period. Then eat Beets with only one meal and see how long the transit time is. SEE and discover. I could go on.... but I resist.

I recently had a 'food issue', blockage and a vomit day, (very unusual for me) due to too much raw fish. It took over a week to get back to usual poos and transit time. Bone Broth (Gelatine) soup nightly helped, as did some slow cooked lamb roast for a few days for our big meal. And then last night I made some Fudge Brownies. Today back to normal. Yay...... .

Also @Matestube @FrenchKiwi Cold brew is a great idea. I hardly ever do it but my pops started to do it in his 70s because all of a sudden he was affected by acidity. He still makes a concentrate of about 8:1 (water) for 24 hours, and then fridges it for a week. He dilutes with milk and microwaves, but... I can't change that! I have many ways to make coffee but do not like the Aeropress, yes I own one, FrenchKiwi, very much for a variety of reasons. 1) Plastic is never BPA free, 2)lukewarm water to quickly extract coffee doesn't work, 3) lots of work for not a very tasty coffee,4) expensive gizmo, and difficult to clean 4) It is nothing close to espresso. One can do this Cold Extraction without any special gadgets. Just need a filter. Or Buy a Cafettiere (plunger) or a moka pot. I have a mate who bought a Nanopresso and he likes it. They make one now that you can put in your own coffee grounds, as the previous iterations had capsules only.

Bon Apetite

 

[FrenchKiwi]

Great postings from all. My understanding of Ray Peat's orientation the health and food selection/eating = cuisine does NOT EQUAL a Ray Peat Diet, or Ray Peat's Rules of Gustation. Etc.. He gives Guidelines as understanding of his knowledge and experience. These are NOT RULES. It is much like the pirates' Code in the Pirates of the Caribbean. I was a lurker here since 2013, and read mostly from RP's website. It is Thick reading, but worth it to understand his overall approach. Quite Wholistic really.

The main aspects I would like to add/support are 1) the experimentation aspect of one's diet and methods, and 2)Broken intestines as above. (3) Would be STUDY and Read!!!. If one eats 2 or 3 meals a day, then one should POO 2 or 3 X daily. Period. Then eat Beets with only one meal and see how long the transit time is. SEE and discover. I could go on.... but I resist.

I recently had a 'food issue', blockage and a vomit day, (very unusual for me) due to too much raw fish. It took over a week to get back to usual poos and transit time. Bone Broth (Gelatine) soup nightly helped, as did some slow cooked lamb roast for a few days for our big meal. And then last night I made some Fudge Brownies. Today back to normal. Yay...... .

Also @Matestube @FrenchKiwi Cold brew is a great idea. I hardly ever do it but my pops started to do it in his 70s because all of a sudden he was affected by acidity. He still makes a concentrate of about 8:1 (water) for 24 hours, and then fridges it for a week. He dilutes with milk and microwaves, but... I can't change that! I have many ways to make coffee but do not like the Aeropress, yes I own one, FrenchKiwi, very much for a variety of reasons. 1) Plastic is never BPA free, 2)lukewarm water to quickly extract coffee doesn't work, 3) lots of work for not a very tasty coffee,4) expensive gizmo, and difficult to clean 4) It is nothing close to espresso. One can do this Cold Extraction without any special gadgets. Just need a filter. Or Buy a Cafettiere (plunger) or a moka pot. I have a mate who bought a Nanopresso and he likes it. They make one now that you can put in your own coffee grounds, as the previous iterations had capsules only.

Bon Apetite

I have a French press, does that work for cold brew? Regarding transit time, I did beetroot test and I was 72 hours. I have no idea how to fix this, it's been a life long issue

 

[AlaskaJono]

I have a French press, does that work for cold brew? Regarding transit time, I did beetroot test and I was 72 hours. I have no idea how to fix this, it's been a life long issue

Sure it would. Put 1/2 cup of coffee grounds in a 4 cup French Press and fill with water in the morning. Then the next day just "Press" it and you have cold coffee extract. Heat up a portion and drink with un peu lait and sugar or not. Enjoy. Save the rest in a jar in the fridge.
You can make cold coffee extract in a large jar or Pitcher, preferably glass or stainless steel. Then just pour through a strainer after 20-24 hours. It is that easy. No fancy equipment needed, though you might want to buy something, er, aesthetic.

72 hours is a long transit time. Are your BM (bowel movements) firm? Not loose or too hard? Carrot or bamboo salad may shorten these times, also physical activity, also changing the diet or eating some fatty foods for a few days may change it. Fush n chips anyone?

 

[FrenchKiwi]

Sure it would. Put 1/2 cup of coffee grounds in a 4 cup French Press and fill with water in the morning. Then the next day just "Press" it and you have cold coffee extract. Heat up a portion and drink with un peu lait and sugar or not. Enjoy. Save the rest in a jar in the fridge.
You can make cold coffee extract in a large jar or Pitcher, preferably glass or stainless steel. Then just pour through a strainer after 20-24 hours. It is that easy. No fancy equipment needed, though you might want to buy something, er, aesthetic.

72 hours is a long transit time. Are your BM (bowel movements) firm? Not loose or too hard? Carrot or bamboo salad may shorten these times, also physical activity, also changing the diet or eating some fatty foods for a few days may change it. Fush n chips anyone?

I walk 10k steps a day, eat carrot salad everyday, and still hardly go number 2. The only thing could be my low fat diet with a lot of dairy. Isn't that bad for efficient bowels?

My bloody husband goes after every ******* meal. I do not know how he does it. He was raised on a heavily saturated fat diet in France, all produce grown at home blablabla, whereas I was fed marmite and chip sandwiches!

 

[AlaskaJono]

I walk 10k steps a day, eat carrot salad everyday, and still hardly go number 2. The only thing could be my low fat diet with a lot of dairy. Isn't that bad for efficient bowels?

My bloody husband goes after every ******* meal. I do not know how he does it. He was raised on a heavily saturated fat diet in France, all produce grown at home blablabla, whereas I was fed marmite and chip sandwiches!

If you aren't having any 'endotoxin' effects, bloated belly, distension, noises with digestion signifying blockages or intestinal inflammation, etc, and your BM are firm and not too loose, then don't worry about it! Unless you want to do a Colonic therapy session. Then see if that speeds it up. But... . We are all different, and your system developed this way. Efficient bowels are related to your system and taken out of context (18 hours to 36 hours being an "average healthy transit time") do not mean much. Your diet sounds well rounded, so, if you are in N. Hemisphere are you eating more fruits now with the season? All taken in context. Also people who drink coffee after a meal, especially a cafecito after lunch (an espresso) may be 'prompted' to have a bowel movement. Just sayin', coffee does help the transit time.

 

[FrenchKiwi]

If you aren't having any 'endotoxin' effects, bloated belly, distension, noises with digestion signifying blockages or intestinal inflammation, etc, and your BM are firm and not too loose, then don't worry about it! Unless you want to do a Colonic therapy session. Then see if that speeds it up. But... . We are all different, and your system developed this way. Efficient bowels are related to your system and taken out of context (18 hours to 36 hours being an "average healthy transit time") do not mean much. Your diet sounds well rounded, so, if you are in N. Hemisphere are you eating more fruits now with the season? All taken in context. Also people who drink coffee after a meal, especially a cafecito after lunch (an espresso) may be 'prompted' to have a bowel movement. Just sayin', coffee does help the transit time.

I am in Southern hemisphere so focusing on oranges and apples atm. I have zero endotoxin symptoms so maybe everything is ok. Thanks

 

[DonLore]

I defined it in the post you replied to, the literal definition. "A substance that provides nourishment essential for the maintenance of life and for growth."
So yes micronutrients are important but obviously come second to macros and especially carbs (which literally provide the energy our bodies need to function and grow). Glucose is the king of nutrients, being the body's main source of energy. I mean even if you don't eat any carbs your body will convert protein and fat to glucose because that's what it needs. Most of the time if you are eating a diet with good macro proportionality all your micros are covered, and then sure you can supplement with a little liver and oysters.
Micros have become an obsession because the supplement industry has been very successful and effective in changing the common perspective of food and nutrition.

Certainly agree that when metabolism seems highest, I crave fruit/sugary stuff. But generally, it seems that mostly the protein containing foods provide the vitamins/minerals. And we need protein anyway so eating 80-160g protein from quality sources, usually provides most micros and then if eating fruit you get even more micros. So there isnt really even a problem unless someone just eats/drinks REFINED sugars and some refined protein. Whole foods as in fruit, milk, meat etc certainly gives the micros needed without needing to use cronometer

 

[Matestube]

what is the ratio of coffee and water in that method

Can't really say I eyeball two full tablespoons of coffee grains that I grind for 500ml of water.
That's a lot by cold-brew standards, but I prefer the taste thag way.

 

[Matestube]

I have an aeropress and the cold brew recipes say I can do it in a few minutes rather than leaving to brew overnight. This seems strange

Those are not real cold brew methods.
They involve some heat at the beginning.

Pure cold brew involves no heat at all, and takes hours to extract what coffee has to offer.

 

[Vins7]

Breakfast - Full fat quark (8%) 500 grams
Lunch - Shake (2 bananas, 40 gram heavy cream, 300-400ml milk) with 3 eggs cooked in butter and 2 slices of whitebread
Dinner - Rice/Pasta + red meat, maybe very little vegetables that are completely soggy otherwise I won't touch them
Pre sleep (if im hungry) - Milk with cookies

With each meal I take 2 tablespoons of apple cider vinegar, really helps with digestion.

I also tried combining red meat with some gelatin through various methods like dissolving it in water, making solid pudding... but none of them digest well so now I take glycine 2-3 grams with the red meat. Interestingly, people state that glycine is calming, and I tend to agree if it is taken alone. But when I combine it with red meat I feel nothing, so it really does balance out amino acids like methionine in my experience.

Also if I sweat a lot after workouts I drink saltwater.

My macro's are somewhat balanced in that I am not completely carb heavy or protein heavy or fat heavy, but almost everything is saturated.

Did you really notice an improvement un your digestion when you tale apple cider vinegar?

 

[EustaceBagge]

Did you really notice an improvement un your digestion when you tale apple cider vinegar?

Surprisingly I did to a certain point, but after 2 weeks the effects became marginal at best so now I only do it occassionally with dinner.

Still experimenting though, right now my interest is in improving digestion up to the point where I can actually eat whole grains etc. with no problem.

But there is no harm in seeing for yourself, so try the ACV and see what it does for you. Doesn't have to be an expensive brand.

 

[RPDiciple]

I defined it in the post you replied to, the literal definition. "A substance that provides nourishment essential for the maintenance of life and for growth."
So yes micronutrients are important but obviously come second to macros and especially carbs (which literally provide the energy our bodies need to function and grow). Glucose is the king of nutrients, being the body's main source of energy. I mean even if you don't eat any carbs your body will convert protein and fat to glucose because that's what it needs. Most of the time if you are eating a diet with good macro proportionality all your micros are covered, and then sure you can supplement with a little liver and oysters.
Micros have become an obsession because the supplement industry has been very successful and effective in changing the common perspective of food and nutrition.

Love it