The Problem Of Thyroid Decompensation When Supplementing

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Cynomel - very little effect?


I started taking Cynomel on Saturday. Split the tab into small tiny bits, you can hardly pick them up.

I am still on the first tab so at most it is 8 mcg per day. Two doses, morning and afternoon, with meals.

The first one I took made me very sleepy and tired, but the ones after that well...no effect whatsoever I think.
I keep track of my temps within the first 2 hours and I haven't seen any increase, neither in pulse.

Should I just keep up with this and hopefully it starts working or look into taking slightly larger bits?

My morning temp is 96.4 and it always increases after meals so I don't think my stress hormones are high through the night. I do believe I have RT3 issues. NDT has given me lots of side effects such as brain fog and depression. So far maybe the cynomel helps to counteract that. But if I don't take some T4 I seem to get these crazy adrenaline attacks, coupled with the constant heart palpitations that I still haven't sorted out.

Well, any ideas ? I was really hoping cynomel would have a profound effect.
 
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jaguar43

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MyUsernameHere said:
I started taking Cynomel on Saturday. Split the tab into small tiny bits, you can hardly pick them up.

I am still on the first tab so at most it is 8 mcg per day. Two doses, morning and afternoon, with meals.

The first one I took made me very sleepy and tired, but the ones after that well...no effect whatsoever I think.
I keep track of my temps within the first 2 hours and I haven't seen any increase, neither in pulse.

Should I just keep up with this and hopefully it starts working or look into taking slightly larger bits?

My morning temp is 96.4 and it always increases after meals so I don't think my stress hormones are high through the night. I do believe I have RT3 issues. NDT has given me lots of side effects such as brain fog and depression. So far maybe the cynomel helps to counteract that. But if I don't take some T4 I seem to get these crazy adrenaline attacks, coupled with the constant heart palpitations that I still haven't sorted out.

Well, any ideas ? I was really hoping cynomel would have a profound effect.

Its good that you feel sleepy and tired, ray talks about how when you take thyroid you feel you want to take a nap in the afternoon. You should increase your dosage, but do it steadily. Sometimes you need a big dosage to overcome RT3. I suggest taking cynoplus as well in the morning and at night. Ray Peat does not recommend NDT because they changed the ingredients.
 
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Ndt Second Try. No Effects?

Giving a second try to Thiroyd.

I took it back in 2014. Worked up to 3 grains. My TSH went down to 0.01. My thyroid hormones were at the same level as when I took nothing. I felt maybe slightly more energetic, but my pulse was still low and so were my temperatures.

Now I am trying again because my TSH on Synthroid (after I was switched to a crappy brand) rose up to 8.14 so I said f*** it and started taking Thiroyd again.

I am now taking 3.5 (three and a half) grains. As I worked up I'd feel a bit better for 2-3 days then I would crash super hard until I increased the dose again. Now, I feel maybe a bit better, that is all. My pulse is still 44-46. My temperature is around 36.3°c. I have zero change in any symptoms.

I barely feel the pills when I take them, regardless if I take them in 4ths or halfs. I wish I could get cynomel right now. When I took cynomel I could immediately feel my self getting warmer and my pulse would go up to 60-70 for a few hours. I assume because it was Free T3 and more easily available to the body or had a more direct action. However I had to quit cynomel due to getting chest tightness from it (though maybe it would have gone away had I persevered).

Anyway... nutritionally, I have things covered more or less. I tried numerous supplements but they don't really help that much. So, any ideas? Thanks
 
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James_001

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I don't think the thailand thyroid has very much quality hormone in it. When I take idealab's thyroid I can feel it instantly, which is not the case with the thailand brand.
 
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So, you don't think it contains much T3, or you don't think it contains much of anything at all?

Because at 3 grains it was quite successful at bringing my TSH down to zero before...so, there must be hormones in it, of some sort at least.
 

James_001

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So, you don't think it contains much T3, or you don't think it contains much of anything at all?

Because at 3 grains it was quite successful at bringing my TSH down to zero before...so, there must be hormones in it, of some sort at least.

I have no idea what is in it, but whatever it is, is not that effective compared to tyromax (which I would say is similar to cynomel)
 
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I figured out how to make it work. The trick here is to microdose (1/4 grains every 1.5 - 2 hours). That way the body doesn't throw away the excess T3.
I was taking up to 4 grains in halfs and whole pills and that did nothing.
Now taking just 2 grains in quarters throughout the day has a profound effect.
My pulse and temps still haven't gone up much, but it definitely works this way. I feel quite a bit different (better).
I think taking T3 in big chunks is just wasting money. You want to replicate the thyroid as closely as possible.
 
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Actually scratch that...I still feel garbage overall. I don't think I'll be ordering this stuff anymore.

Cynomel was far more effective, it immediately send temps and pulse up and gave a positive energy rush. Thiroyd is peanuts in comparison.
 
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I'm not sure, I have a big tub of magnesium chloride that I mix with water into a bottle every few days so I get like 300-400 mg of elemental magnesium just from that alone. Sometimes I can "OD" on magnesium and then I feel kinda high but it lasts maybe a few short hours.
 
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My experience with taking thyroid supplements so far has been very shoddy at best. I've tried 2 types of NDT, ThyroGold and Thiroyd from Thailand. Neither of them did anything to my pulse and temps, which are low (~50 and 36.2°c respectively).
I've also taken, and still take atm, synthetic T4 (synthroid) and that did not do a whole lot for my temps or pulse either.
All of these medications have failed on that front, with the sole exception of cynomel.
Cynomel within 30 minutes easily shot up my pulse to 70-80 bpm and kept it there most of the day if I dosed it properly.
My temps were around 36.6°c as well. I quit because I had chest tightness while using it and that scared me. Later on I foolishly tossed the pills I had left. I probably should have persevered because it most likely would have gone away (I had problems with NDT too). But now it's gone and there is no good synthetic T3 around.
Note that, all of these meds successfully lowered my TSH on paper, but only cynomel gave actual results in other ways.

My theory that T4 and NDT are very easily gotten rid of in a body that wants to stay hypothyroid.
T4 can just be dumped into RT3 which makes it useless.
NDT hormones are bound to proteins (thyroglobulin, total T4 & T3 in 'storage' form) and simply do not get released in adequate amounts to matter, thus pooling & getting wasted.
Natural Desiccated Thyroid and Synthetic are NOT the Same. | thyroid-s.com This post explains the difference between natural & synthetic.
Cynomel is basically 'Free T3' (the active kind that you're supposed to measure when you get labs), it's just bound to sodium, a bound that gets easily broken in the stomach, and once it hits the bloodstream it acts immediately and not much the body can do about it. (And this is good when you have a stupid stubborn body which wants to stay hypothyroid & sick for years like mine). The best thyroid supplement for people like me would be a 'synthetic NDT' with T4, T3, T2 and T1 all mixed in but in free form.

I found out that in Germany there is a T3-only supplement called THYBON which is supposed to close to Cynomel (each pill contains 20 mcg of T3), so I am going to talk to my doctor about getting a prescription for that. From what I read it's a good product similar in potency to Cynomel, far better than Triyotex and that other stuff.
There is also Novothyral which is a Cynoplus equivalent, you can get this in the Mexican pharmacies as well I believe.
 
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I'm in a similar place. Nothing has an effect except t3. It doesn't raise my temps. Only my pulse. In think I am thyroid resistant. I use blue sky peptide. It seems good.
 

marteagal

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MyUserNameHere, interesting to read that Cynomel made such a difference. I am actually an ex Thybon user but do not have experience with other synthetic T3 since customs seized my order from Mexico last year and also imposed a penalty charge of 40 EUR on me, so I cannot compare Thybon with Cynomel. Thybon certainly raised my pulse but temperature remained rather unchained. Hope it works better for you. I would appreciate if you report your results with Thybon.
By the way, as you seem to be from Germany, have you already tried the NDT provided by Klösterl-Apotheke in Munich? They offer T4:T3 ratios of 5:1 and 2.5:1.
 
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The Problem Of Thyroid Decompensation When Supplementing

Yesterday I had a very unique experience. I added 15 mcg of T3 to my usual 50 mcg of T4 throughout the day and by the evening I was transformed. I was so chock-full of energy that I didn't know what to do with myself. I felt alive for the first time in YEARS. By 9 PM I decided that I absolutely had to go outside for a power walk. I went out for a walk, and came back running. Throughout the whole trip I had music blaring and was walking so fast that kids were switching to the other side of the sidewalk, probably afraid that I was some kind of junkie tripped out on amphetamines from the way I was moving. My legs felt light as feathers and I walked at probably double normal walking speed, air-drumming with my hands as I moved through the town at an absurd pace. I walked something like several miles and came back home only slightly winded. My pulse was 65-70 the whole time (normally 45-50!) and as I went to bed my hands and feet were radiating so much heat that I realised for the first time that my extremities were normally COLD. When I placed my hand anywhere on my body my hands actually felt warmer than my core and my toes had this comfy, warm, buzzing sensation. It was insane.

Today, the whole thing came crashing down. In the morning I still felt moderately good but as the day rolled on my brain slowly crawled back into its anxiety-ridden hole, the energy was nowhere to be found and I left home feeling awful, waiting for the T3 kick that never came. I was extremely disappointed because I thought I finally found something that would work for me, but it now dawned on me that all that happened was that overnight my thyroid had simply decompensated it output to match the newfound amounts of T3 I was taking. The body always seeks homeostasis and wants to maintain equal amounts of hormones, even when that homeostasis is so obviously wrong and harmful for the entire system.

In a body that responds in this way I don't see how one can benefit from low doses of thyroid. It seems that in order to actually get an increase in circulating hormones, you have to take your thyroid out of the equation completely and simply supply all the hormones exogenously, beacause it will counteract and circumvent all your efforts. I haven't found a way around this problem yet. It's not really a problem, even, it's the way the whole thing was meant to work. Exogenous hormones lower the TSH which reduces thyroid output in an attempt to maintain hormone levels.

Looking at that it doesn't seem possible for anything short of a whole cynoplus tablet to work in the long term, at least not in my case. On the bright side, synthetic T3 is the first thing that has actually given me noticeable and measureable increases in metabolism. NDT didn't budge my pulse one bit, I felt absolutely nothing even though I had a TSH of ZERO on it and was taking 3 grains.
 
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Kyle M

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It's a pretty complex system, maybe over time of using it to increase metabolism you can alter your FA profile and other endogenous chemical thyroid blockers and obtain more flexibility. I wouldn't take one day of a crash as your ultimate fate.
 

DaveFoster

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In a body that responds in this way I don't see how one can benefit from low doses of thyroid. It seems that in order to actually get an increase in circulating hormones, you have to take your thyroid out of the equation completely and simply supply all the hormones exogenously, beacause it will counteract and circumvent all your efforts. I haven't found a way around this problem yet. It's not really a problem, even, it's the way the whole thing was meant to work. Exogenous hormones lower the TSH which reduces thyroid output in an attempt to maintain hormone levels.
Bodybuilders do that. You could just use surrogates for hormones; caffeine for T3 and progesterone for example.
 
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It's a pretty complex system, maybe over time of using it to increase metabolism you can alter your FA profile and other endogenous chemical thyroid blockers and obtain more flexibility. I wouldn't take one day of a crash as your ultimate fate.

The sad thing is that my body rejects a state that is clearly better. I had improvements across the board. Almost no anxiety, confident, became outgoing and talkative like when I was 17, boundless energy, normal pulse and temperatures.

That's what an optimal metabolism looks and feels like. I think at this point I am going to force-feed my body with hormones to keep it in this state. Then perhaps over time, it will accept this new state as better and seek to maintain it on its own. I simply see no other way out of this rut, I've been trying for 4 years.

After catching a glimpse of what I could feel like, I don't want to spend another day in tired-braindead-zombie land anymore.
 

PeatThemAll

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I really, really hope you find a solution that works reliably for you. Nowadays I'm cautious about 'pink clouds' and the subsequent 'chasing the dragon' (dat feeling).
 

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