"The Primary Sources Of Acidity In The Diet Are Sulfur-containing AAs, Salt, And Phosphoric Acid"

[yerrag]

You're welcome! :) If you believe in the theory than sure, including foods from the more alkaline lists could be of benefit. I'm not sure it matters having them at the same time we partake in an acidic food unless we find it reduces negative symptoms we may experience with an acidic food on its own such as heartburn or gas? For example – ginger is often used in meals to prevent indigestion. I think it's a common practice in India to use spices in milk to help digest it better? That sort of thing.

That must be why my Indian friends like to drink chai after dinner. There's plenty of spices in chai - cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice, cardamom, cloves - with orange pekoe tea and milk. Nice to enjoy chai even more knowing it helps with keeping one healthy.

I am seeing my filtering improve in a short time by increasing fruit.

What do you mean by filtering, Charlie?

 

[Jennifer]

I am seeing my filtering improve in a short time by increasing fruit. Maybe if you made a thread tagging it "Non Peaty" or a log that might be good enough so people do not get confused. I have some questions about it and maybe others do too.

YAY! That's awesome, Charlie! Good kidneys! Okay, I'll get working on a beginning post. Hopefully, I'll be able to answer your questions. :)

 

[Jennifer]

"Protein restriction did not significantly affect CKD progression[67]. Very low-protein diet does not delay CKD progression and may increase the risk of death[68]."

Interesting. Switching my grandmother to a low protein diet high in fruits and veggies completely reversed the CKD she had for the majority of her life, among other conditions including high blood pressure. We were able to get her off all her medications. Prior to the switch, every meal she ate contained some sort of high protein food – eggs, bacon, chicken, grass-fed beef or beans. The only protein she doesn't digest well and must avoid is dairy.

 

[Jennifer]

That must be why my Indian friends like to drink chai after dinner. There's plenty of spices in chai - cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice, cardamom, cloves - with orange pekoe tea and milk. Nice to enjoy chai even more knowing it helps with keeping one healthy.

What do you mean by filtering, Charlie?

I love chai, though I make it without tea so I suppose it's not actually chai. lol I make mine from homemade vanilla bean infused coconut milk. Orange pekoe tea sounds good. I think I'll try infusing the coconut milk with orange peels, too. Thanks for the idea!

Filtration is what I mentioned here in a previous post:

"This is what Dr. Morse teaches and why I often mention checking for kidney filtration. There should be sediment (often falsely believed to be an infection, despite no infection being present) if the kidneys are filtering. That sediment is the metabolic waste/byproducts."

 

[Amazoniac]

Interesting. Switching my grandmother to a low protein diet high in fruits and veggies completely reversed the CKD she had for the majority of her life, among other conditions including high blood pressure. We were able to get her off all her medications. Prior to the switch, every meal she ate contained some sort of high protein food – eggs, bacon, chicken, grass-fed beef or beans. The only protein she doesn't digest well and must avoid is dairy.

I know, protein restriction can be very therapeutic, but I didn't omit that one because for most people reading this it could have a negative effect.
All changes were made at once?

Here are a few links that might interest some of you:
- Taurine and the renal system
- Taurine and the kidneys
- Protective effect of taurine and quercet in against renal dysfunction associated with the combined use of gentamycin and diclofenac
- The hepato-renal syndrome: Renal amino acid transport in bile duct ligated rats (DL) — influence of treatment with triiodothyronine or dexamethasone on renal amino acid handling in amino acid loaded rats - ScienceDirect
- https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1365-2796.1989.tb01378.x
- Taurine: A therapeutic agent in experimental kidney disease

- https://www.physiology.org/doi/abs/10.1152/ajpendo.1995.269.5.E910

I also didn't read them because the kidneys are not important, I focused on impurities in sea salt instead.

 

[Jennifer]

I know, protein restriction can be very therapeutic, but I didn't omit that one because for most people reading this it could have a negative effect.
All changes were made at once?

Oh, no I can understand that. I just thought it interesting that my grandmother had a different outcome than what that study found.

The only changes we made were dropping the animal protein from her diet, reducing her bean consumption and upping her fruit and veggie intake. We continued to make her the same kind of meals she had before. These changes were made all at one, yes.

 

[Amazoniac]

Oh, no I can understand that. I just thought it interesting that my grandmother had a different outcome than what that study found.

The only changes we made were dropping the animal protein from her diet, reducing her bean consumption and upping her fruit and veggie intake. We continued to make her the same kind of meals she had before. These changes were made all at one, yes.

Maybe we can clone your grandma to experiment with the replica with a diet of pre-digested proteids.

Regarding the last link that above, I still don't know why the kidneys (and adrenal of the glands, liver, and intestines) concentrate molybdenum. It's one of the minerals that the main sources are seeds (legumes, grains, nuts), organ meats and probably shellfish. If this is true for shellfish, it could provide taurine and molybdenum at the same time: bi-winning. I remember we were talking about orange juice being a good source, but from what I read later it's not, most fruits are mediocre sources. Certain greens provide some but I suspect not enough to supply for greater demands, such as correcting a prolonged deficiency, some stressful condition, etc.

 

[yerrag]

I think I'm getting a better grasp of many things on an acid-base balance standpoint. Here are a few -

- Ray talks about restricting amino acids that are rich in sulfur. From an acid-base standpoint, it makes sense. The by-products of their metabolism increase the acidic load from the sulfuric acid produced. Better to eat protein that is rich in glycine and low on methionine, cysteine, and tryptophan, especially when the kidneys are not working well anymore. Glycine helps preserve and maintain our health, without contributing to an acidic load. In fact, it is needed by the liver for detox.

- Diseased kidneys do not excrete ammonia well. So, it's best to keep conditions inside the body such that production of ammonia is prevented. This would mean to make sure there is enough sugar in the blood to keep the body from metabolizing protein, which produces ammonia. Another way is to keep the blood pH from being acidic, as this would spur the liver to produce ammonia which in necessary to produce ammonium ions that are meant to be excreted by the kidney to balance pH.

- Restricting sulfur (sulfate)- and phosphate- rich proteins while increasing the consumption of alkalinic minerals (magnesium, calcium, sodium, potassium) through fruits and vegetables would lessen the acidic load. This would put a lighter load of the liver and kidneys.

- Relying on proper choice of foods is better than relying on supplementation to achieve acid-base balance. With food, there are less untoward interactions/unintended side-effects to deal with. With supplements, there may be effects that are counter-productive. For example, caution is needed when taking large amounts of baking soda as there could be confounding conditions (such as a salt-deficient condition causing potassium excretion and subsequent deficiency of it). Another instance is the therapeutic dosage of large amounts of magnesium in the form of magnesium chloride. The chloride excess from magnesium chloride supplementation would be a significant acid load that would cause the liver and kidney to work more, and also cause loss of electrolytes due to heavy urine excretion. It would be better to instead rely on obtain alkaline conditions with fruits and vegetables (than baking soda) and to eat more cooked leafy greens (than magnesium chloride supplementation).

- Eating plenty of protein, especially those that are sulfur-rich, is fine with growing people. The kidneys are at 100% and can handle the acid load. The large amount of protein is needed especially for growth. But past age 25, the kidneys start to lose gradually its filtering capacity. Therefore, at this point lower sulfur-rich protein intake is advised, with the concurrent increase in intake of fruits and vegetables, in order to improve acid-base balance, such that the filtering load on the kidneys can be reduced. Yet, growing people can still benefit from increased alkaline intake from fruits and vegetables. The lighter load on the kidneys means energy can be used to enhance growth and other areas of physical development.

- With a keen understanding of acid-base balance, one can follow a food-based lifestyle that keeps the blood and the extracellular fluids as close to the ideal pH of 7.4. Yet this is just one aspect of it. It will aid the efficient metabolism of energy, as long as the elements of efficient metabolism are present in sufficient amounts. Having enough tissue oxygenation and a steady source of sugar, and the tissues' ability to metabolize these substrates efficiently, as aided by enzymes that are well supplied with enablers in amino acids, enzymes, vitamins, minerals, and energy sources such as red light and sunlight.

- Acid-base balance is a concept that I think also applies to animals. The koi and the cats I keep could stand to benefit from a better acid-base balance through better food. Adding food sources rich in electrolytes - green leaves, coconut, salt, calcium (if need be, I feed my cats cooked fish [no head and organs-too rich in thyroid] with bones in them) - may help with longevity. Their kidneys are the first to go, and if the kidneys can have longer useful lives, the cats will too.

 

[Amazoniac]

sulfate

- Drug-Induced Metabolic Acidosis

"Cholestyramine is an oral agent for treating hypertriglyceridemia and cholestasis by binding and sequestering bile acids from the entero-hepatic circulation; the non-absorbable complexes are eventually excreted in the stool [37]. In the GI tract, cholestyramine also binds phosphate, sulfate, and bicarbonate, leading to potential loss of bicarbonate from the body. Under normal conditions, this is easily corrected by renal regeneration of bicarbonate. However, patients with impaired renal function are at risk of hyperchloremic acidosis [37-39].

Sevelamer hydrochloride is a non-reabsorbable phosphate binder. Dialysis patients on sevelamer hydrochloride have lower mean serum bicarbonate concentration during and at the end of therapy compared to those treated with calcium acetate [40, 41]. The chloride released upon phosphate stimulates bicarbonate secretion by the gut via chloride-bicarbonate exchange [40]. This secretion coupled with defective ability to regenerate bicarbonate in renal patients leads to hyperchloremic acidosis. This complication is avoided by using sevelamer carbonate, which binds phosphate and releases carbonate instead [42], or by bixalomer, which contains no chloride, and seems to demonstrate equal efficacy of phosphate binding with no evidence of acidosis in clinical trials [43, 44]. Laxative abuse, calcium chloride, and magnesium sulfate could also cause hyperchloremic acidosis because the secreted bicarbonate from the pancreas is trapped by calcium and magnesium [45-47] and then excreted in stools."​

- Influence of Magnesium Sulfate-Induced Hypermagnesemia on the Anion Gap: Role of Hypersulfatemia

"The AG [onion gap] is determined by the difference between UA [unmeasured onions] and UC[ations]. Thus, whether elevated serum levels of Li or Mg are associated with lower levels of the AG depends upon concomitant changes of UA (or UC).
The purpose of the present prospective study was to assess the validity of our hypothesis [1] that an increase in serum SO4 tends to obviate a lowering of the AG by MgSO4. The current data support this formulation: infusion of MgSO4 was associated with an average increase in serum Mg of 2.1 ± 0.2 mEq/1 with an appreciable but statistically insignificant decrease in AG. Concomitantly, serum SO4 increased by 1.4 ± 0.2 mEq/1. Comparison of the change in SO4 minus the change in Mg - i.e., AUA - AUC of the two relevant ions - with the change in AG indicated that, on the average. 70% (0.7 mEq/1) of the 1.0-mEq/l decrement in AG was accounted for by the observed changes in the two unmeasured ions. Hypersulfatemia thus militates against the reduction in AG that would otherwise accompany MgSO4-induced hypermagnesemia."

"Recent reports indicate that infusion of sulfate causes small decrements in serum Ca [5, 6], which might also have influenced the AG response to MgSO4."

"The renal handling of both Mg and SO4 involves filtration and reabsorption [7-9], It is believed that the reabsorptive mechanism for SO4 is readily saturated [8] and is adaptively depressed during SO4 loading [9]. That the FEso4 significantly exceeded that of Mg both at baseline and after 6 h of MgSO4 infusion probably accounts in part for the finding that the increment in serum SO4 (1.4 ± 0.2 mEq/1) was less (p = 0.03) than that of Mg (2.1 ± 0.2 mEq/1).

In conclusion, hypersulfatemia appears to be the major factor attenuating the reduction in AG that, presumably, would otherwise accompany MgSO4-induced hypermagnesemia. A small decrement in serum Ca probably was a quantitatively minor factor also tending to obviate a significant decrease in the AG."​

- Fatal Hypermagnesemia Caused by an Epsom Salt Enema: A Case Illustration

"Epsom salt was first described in 1695, when Dr. Nehemiah Grew took water from a well in Epsom, England, and created “Epsom salt.”3 Epsom salt is essentially 100% magnesium sulfate. One tablespoon of Epsom salt contains approximately 35 g of magnesium sulfate, which is 3.4 g (287 mEq) of elemental magnesium. This is a considerable amount, considering that the recommended daily allowance for an adult is only 300 to 400 mg per day.4 Since that time, Epsom salt has been used for numerous ailments including abdominal pain, constipation, sprains, muscle strains, hyaline membrane disease, and cerebral edema.5-8"

"The first report of death caused by an Epsom salt enema was published in 1943 by Fawcett and Gens.9 Before this report, Fraser5 reviewed the literature on the toxicity of Epsom salt from 1841 to 1909 and found 7 cases of magnesium toxicity from Epsom salt use, with 5 deaths."

"Hypermagnesemia is a potentially lethal condition that may not be as rare as is commonly thought. In 1990, Whang and Ryder12 studied more than 1,000 patients admitted to a community hospital and found the incidence of hypermagnesemia to be 5.7%, whereas only 12% of those were clinically suspected. Hypermagnesemia is usually found in patients with renal insufficiency who have a creatinine clearance of less than 30 mL/min. Other patients at risk for development of elevated serum magnesium levels are patients with excessive magnesium loads. Potential sources of excess magnesium intake include antacids, laxatives, cathartics, and parenteral administration. Other less common causes of hypermagnesemia include rhabdomyolysis, tumor lysis syndrome, adrenal insufficiency, hyperparathyroidism, and hypothyroidism.13"

"Although magnesium is in numerous over-the-counter agents and has many therapeutic uses, there are infrequent reports of death caused by magnesium toxicity. For many centuries, magnesium has been used to relieve gastrointestinal symptoms, including abdominal pain and chronic constipation. In patients with normal renal function, most extra magnesium ingested can be completely and easily eliminated. However, there are times when caution should be taken, and cases exist in the literature which highlight the potential danger of magnesium-containing products.2,14-19"

"Oral magnesium has also been used in the past as a cathartic agent in conjunction with oral activated charcoal for poisonings and overdoses. There have been numerous reports of fatal and near-fatal cases involving hypermagnesemia either in patients receiving magnesium with unrecognized renal failure or in patients with normal renal function who received charcoal and magnesium for treatment of an overdose.20-22 Many physicians now advocate the use of sorbitol instead of magnesium as the cathartic agent of choice in poisonings.20,22"

"The initial treatment in any patient with suspected magnesium toxicity is to discontinue any further intake of magnesium. Calcium directly antagonizes the membrane effects of hypermagnesemia and can reverse respiratory depression, hypotension, and cardiac dysrhythmias. Therefore, intravenous calcium should be given if there is any cardiopulmonary or neurologic compromise. Adequate hydration is necessary to help eliminate the excess magnesium through diuresis. Diuretics may also be used to enhance the diuresis, and if severe toxicity is present, immediate dialysis can be lifesaving. Hemodialysis should be considered on any patient who has severe toxicity and is not responding to less invasive measures."​

- Hypermagnesemia-induced fatality following epsom salt gargles(1). - PubMed - NCBI

And an interesting of the reeds:
Sulfate

I'm trying to make the senses of all this.

 

[Jennifer]

- Acid-base balance is a concept that I think also applies to animals. The koi and the cats I keep could stand to benefit from a better acid-base balance through better food. Adding food sources rich in electrolytes - green leaves, coconut, salt, calcium (if need be, I feed my cats cooked fish [no head and organs-too rich in thyroid] with bones in them) - may help with longevity. Their kidneys are the first to go, and if the kidneys can have longer useful lives, the cats will too.

I think so, too. I do believe that a carnivore's digestive track is designed for more acidic foods (flesh in this case) than a primates but even still, I've read that a carnivore will go for the stomach contents (plant matter) of its kill and I've personally witnessed cats going for more alkaline things such as grass and even fruit.

The first thing my cat would go for when we took her outside (she was an indoor cat) was the grass. She also liked lettuce and fruit, especially raspberries. I follow quite a few plant-based YouTubers whose cats go crazy for their fruit smoothies and one cat in particular actually got into a bag of dried coconut that one of the YouTubers was using in a recipe she was making. lol There's also wheat grass pots which are a popular treat for cats.

And yes, the kidneys tend to be weak in cats, and dogs. You may have noticed that it is common for a dog's hips to go? Dr. Morse says this is because they aren't able to sweat like we do, which of course the skin is a main organ of elimination.

 

[Jennifer]

Maybe we can clone your grandma to experiment with the replica with a diet of pre-digested proteids.

This world would certainly be a better place with another Marie in it, but I'm not sure it could handle it. I'm not even sure how her tiny body does. She's such a force to be reckoned with. Haha!

Regarding the last link that above, I still don't know why the kidneys (and adrenal of the glands, liver, and intestines) concentrate molybdenum. It's one of the minerals that the main sources are seeds (legumes, grains, nuts), organ meats and probably shellfish. If this is true for shellfish, it could provide taurine and molybdenum at the same time: bi-winning. I remember we were talking about orange juice being a good source, but from what I read later it's not, most fruits are mediocre sources. Certain greens provide some but I suspect not enough to supply for greater demands, such as correcting a prolonged deficiency, some stressful condition, etc.

Good question. I just checked Dr. Morse's book and he lists its uses in the body as "a regulator of calcium, magnesium, copper metabolism. Conversion of purines to uric acid. It's a component of the enzyme xanthine oxidase that aids in the formation of uric acid (a normal breakdown product of metabolism). It is important in the mobilization of iron from storage, and is necessary for normal growth and development." Honestly, I'll need to think on it some more because I'm not sure.

Dr. Morse has dark leafy greens as one of the sources of it. I don't even consume those. My herbal tinctures do contain some seeds like fenugreek, though I'm not sure how much molybdenum they actually provide. I feel awesome on just fruit and "meh" when I start to add the veggies/leafy greens back into my diet and my filtering suffers, I actually stop getting sediment altogether, so I'm not sure I should really be worrying about molybdenum. I'll continue to keep tabs on any physical symptoms as well as my blood levels and diastolic BP and if they start to suffer, I'll look into supplementing my diet with maybe green juice (yuck!) or a greens powder.

 

[yerrag]

And yes, the kidneys tend to be weak in cats, and dogs. You may have noticed that it is common for a dog's hips to go? Dr. Morse says this is because they aren't able to sweat like we do, which of course the skin is a main organ of elimination.

I've always wondered about whether what the cat and dog experts say about certain breeds being prone to hip dysplasia is even true. I mean, it's true if they're fed on the "scientific" cat and dog formulas. But what if the formulas aren't really that good at all? Do the formulators even give acid-base balance a thought? Do they even know what it means?

It's just so easy for us to fall for experts that point the finger at genetics. I'll find out in two decades whether my pets are still around with my "improved" food for them.

 

[Amazoniac]

This world would certainly be a better place with another Marie in it, but I'm not sure it could handle it. I'm not even sure how her tiny body does. She's such a force to be reckoned with. Haha!

Good question. I just checked Dr. Morse's book and he lists its uses in the body as "a regulator of calcium, magnesium, copper metabolism. Conversion of purines to uric acid. It's a component of the enzyme xanthine oxidase that aids in the formation of uric acid (a normal breakdown product of metabolism). It is important in the mobilization of iron from storage, and is necessary for normal growth and development." Honestly, I'll need to think on it some more because I'm not sure.

Dr. Morse has dark leafy greens as one of the sources of it. I don't even consume those. My herbal tinctures do contain some seeds like fenugreek, though I'm not sure how much molybdenum they actually provide. I feel awesome on just fruit and "meh" when I start to add the veggies/leafy greens back into my diet and my filtering suffers, I actually stop getting sediment altogether, so I'm not sure I should really be worrying about molybdenum. I'll continue to keep tabs on any physical symptoms as well as my blood levels and diastolic BP and if they start to suffer, I'll look into supplementing my diet with maybe green juice (yuck!) or a greens powder.

Thank you for taking the time to check it. I suspect a diet that's mostly fruit will reduce the need for it. Strawberries seem a decent source:
Foods High in Molybdenum | Whole Food Catalog (categories)
I say seem because I don't know if this website uses a bingo machine for the values, but it doesn't appear to be the case since they increase in foods that should contain more.

I always had the impression that strawberries provide something that other fruits usually don't (I remember your iodine but other than it), but it can be the flavonoids for example. Since they grow near the ground and don't have a peel, these protective compounds should be stronger in them.

All in all, if there is a good reason for molybdenum concentrating in those body parts, strawberries might be a source.

 

[Waremu]

What’s interesting is that in one of the studies posted here, it seems it is saying that even a higher calcium diet won’t conpeltely stop minerals from being taken from the bones to buffer acid, unless I utterly read that wrong. Perhaps we have one aspect in bone health right, which is eat calcium, but maybe that’s just one side and that there are other aspects that need to be considered as well.

What I find interesting is also, throughout the many many years of experiencing with different nutritional paradigms, I always find myself — in an almost instinctive way —- going back to eating a large fruit based died.

I always find that no matter what I try, I do best on a high fruit based diet. And I always find it making the most sense to me. I always thought or felt deep down that while many of the people who would go on about acidic and alkaline diets weren’t spot on, they were generally still in the right direction to a degree (acid and alkaline forming foods rather, etc.).

When I eat a diet heavy in acidic forming foods over alkaline forming ones, I can almost feel it deep within that it’s a matter of time before I start feeling like garbage, but also like a thirst for more alkaline forming foods. It’s like my body is desperately trying to tell me to balance out all of that heavy acidic forming foods I have been consuming. I do think there needs to be a balance and perhaps the frutiarian crowd goes way to far with only consuming alkaline foods (or almost all), but no matter what I feel like they’re on to something. I have been doing Ray Peat very strictly for over five years now and have healed myself and it has helped tramensiously. But I instinctively find myself going back to more fruit even to the point where I stop drinking cokes or pepsi. Dairy was 70% of my protein and I am thinking about lowering it to half or less than half, just to the point of having enough to cover my base calcium requirements and then using gelatin and the occasional raw liver and a few raw egg yolks daily to fill it the rest of the protein requirements in and see how it goes. Despite the positive aspects of calcium, I have yet to hear a good argument against the fact that it is still high in methionine and some other problematic amino acids. Tryptophan in it seems to be balanced out by its natural BCAA’s and casein protein, but at this point I am still doubtful that in high doses these aminos even in milk will be more beneficial in the long run, compared to just having enough dairy to cover base calcium needs using gelatin and egg yolks to feel in the rest and a high fruit based diet (HCLF) with it as the foundation. I just always seem to find myself going back to this way of eating and feel best that way. And this has been a reoccurring process ever since I got into nutrition at 16 (age 31 now). I do remember even Peat saying once that ideally half of your protein could be gelatin and the other half milk and little meat. So even that isn’t in disagreement with what’s I have heard Peat say.

I also feel the same way about cucumber and leafy green juice. It has usually been beneficial to me when I add it to my diet. I feel more hydrated, and have better mental clarity. In fact, there is a level of mental clearity I have on a heavy fruit and greens diet that I just can’t get from a heavy acid forming food diet. And I am not talking about crashes and swings, but steady and grounded mental clarity. My creativity also goes though the roof.

 

[Wagner83]

.....I always find myself — in an almost instinctive way —- going back to eating a large fruit based died.

I also feel the same way about cucumber and leafy green juice. It has usually been beneficial to me when I add it to my diet. I feel more hydrated, and have better mental clarity. In fact, there is a level of mental clearity I have on a heavy fruit and greens diet that I just can’t get from a heavy acid forming food diet. And I am not talking about crashes and swings, but steady and grounded mental clarity. My creativity also goes though the roof.

Do you think tubers are acidic then? I don't know if the high-fruits diet success is based on acid-base balance only, they are extremely rich in key nutrients, provide fibers and ratio of sugar that keep insulin in check, the bowel usually move fast as well. Quite a few people myself included have big problems with gelatin, I don't know how good it is, whether we talk about endotoxin, digestion issues, taste and glutamate/glutamic acid (?).

 

[Amazoniac]

Here's a summary by the credible person on the first page that's also the author of 'Diet-induced acidosis: is it real and clinically relevant?' shared here.

Diet-Induced Cellular Acidosis - Joseph Pizzorno

The uploaded file is the same, no need to download it; only when the link above stops working. My crystal ball told me it isn't going to take long.

 

[Amazoniac]

Protective Effects of High Dietary Potassium: Nutritional and Metabolic Aspects | The Journal of Nutrition | Oxford Academic

"the accompanying anions for K+ are chiefly phosphate and chloride in animal products and cereals, whereas in fruits and vegetables, they are largely represented by organic anions such as citrate, malate, and to a lesser extent, oxalate or tartrate"

Here's why sodium might be safer in colossal supplemental doses:
"Extracellular K+ represents only ∼2% of the total K+ body and this extracellular pool is of the same magnitude as K+ daily intake (70 mEq vs. 80–100 mEq/d). Some commonly consumed meals may provide >50 mEq K+ if they contain high-K+ plant foods (potatoes, various vegetables, fruits). Under such conditions, if there were no rapid and effective adjustment of renal excretion and/or transient tissue K+ storage, plasma K+ concentration might reach a critical level of 6–8 mEq/L, which would be potentially harmful for heart and nervous tissues. Furthermore, dietary K+ could pose a real challenge to body homeostatic systems for the following reasons: 1) the duodenum and the jejunum absorb K+ even more rapidly than water (8), and 2) renal excretion of K+ is progressive, especially when the body was previously adapted to low K+ meals (11). To match a massive K+ supply, several tissues have the capacity to transiently remove K+ from extracellular fluid, i.e., the muscles, in particular, and to a lesser extent the liver."

"Potassium uptake is also controlled by insulin, which circulates in portal blood at concentrations much higher than in peripheral blood. Nevertheless, the highest capacity to keep pace with a rapid rise in K+ absorption is clearly located in muscles."

"Two common, often overlooked, conditions associated with chronic metabolic acidosis are aging and excessive protein ingestion. Even if the body's homeostatic response to these conditions is very efficient, homeostatic responses may engender pathologic consequences, such as nephrolithiasis, bone demineralization, and muscle protein breakdown (21). In this respect, K/organic salts that generate KHCO3− play an important role in neutralizing anions excreted in urine such as sulfate, an end-product of sulfur amino acid catabolism (22). Bicarbonate is not present in foods and may be produced within host tissues as a consequence of the oxidation of organic anions (essentially K+ malate or citrate salts). Malate and citrate, together with some minor others anions such as fumarate, succinate, or ketoglutarate, are effectively absorbed in the small intestine, probably through a Na-dicarboxylate cotransport (23). In contrast, oxalate or tartrate (present in spinach, rhubarb, or grapes) are poorly absorbed or metabolized. Enzymes metabolizing malate and citrate are ubiquitous and because these anions circulate in blood as trace amounts, it was assumed that they are essentially metabolized in the splanchnic area (intestine, liver) (7)."

"Magnesium is frequently provided by high-K+ foods because both cations represent major intracellular cations in eukaryotes. Although Mg++ and K+ have distinct cellular roles, they may be subject to similar disturbances such as cell leakage, for example, in the case of metabolic acidosis."

 

[Jennifer]

I've always wondered about whether what the cat and dog experts say about certain breeds being prone to hip dysplasia is even true. I mean, it's true if they're fed on the "scientific" cat and dog formulas. But what if the formulas aren't really that good at all? Do the formulators even give acid-base balance a thought? Do they even know what it means?

It's just so easy for us to fall for experts that point the finger at genetics. I'll find out in two decades whether my pets are still around with my "improved" food for them.

Yeah, I personally am not a fan of commercial dog and cat food. I feel like the food they eat should actually resemble food. lol We did feed our dogs a grain-free, whole food based kibble but I wasn't thrilled with all the added isolated vitamins and minerals that are standard in pet food so we switched them to a mostly raw diet of fruits, veggies (non-starchy except for the occasional sweet potato and pumpkin), shellfish, eggs and organ meat with coconut/cream as their main fat source and coconut water as their main fluids. The only supplements we gave them were gelatin, herbs and for a short time, eggshell calcium. The change in their health was amazing.

 

[Waremu]

Do you think tubers are acidic then? I don't know if the high-fruits diet success is based on acid-base balance only, they are extremely rich in key nutrients, provide fibers and ratio of sugar that keep insulin in check, the bowel usually move fast as well. Quite a few people myself included have big problems with gelatin, I don't know how good it is, whether we talk about endotoxin, digestion issues, taste and glutamate/glutamic acid (?).

Not sure about potatoes. Will have to look into them. But yes, just to be sure, I didn’t say I think the benefits of a fruit based diet was just based on the alkaline/acid balance. I don’t think anyone is saying that. No doubt there are other benefits from eating plenty of fruit as well. For example, fructose (from what Ray Peat has said and from the research I have seen) at least can help protect bones from the catabolic effect when there is insufficient calcium, etc. The fructose and magnesium and potassium which seem to influence the acid or alkaline load also has other positive effects. That said, the possible benefits of eating more alkaline forming foods isn’t something I can count out either since I have consistently noticed the difference when my diet is heavily acidic forming, which would seem to suggest that it may likely be in part due to then alakaline/acid balance. Over the past 15 + years of regular blood work and a near scientific level of tracking each new food I take out and put into my diet each once at a time, it always goes back to whether my diet is made up of heavily acid or alkaline forming foods. Even if my diet is heavy in high quality natural acidic forming foods, I notice the huge difference and this has been very consistent going back well over 15 years with me. And I’ve seen other ‘Peatarians’ say the same thing as well.

 

[Jennifer]

Thank you for taking the time to check it. I suspect a diet that's mostly fruit will reduce the need for it. Strawberries seem a decent source:
Foods High in Molybdenum | Whole Food Catalog (categories)
I say seem because I don't know if this website uses a bingo machine for the values, but it doesn't appear to be the case since they increase in foods that should contain more.

I always had the impression that strawberries provide something that other fruits usually don't (I remember your iodine but other than it), but it can be the flavonoids for example. Since they grow near the ground and don't have a peel, these protective compounds should be stronger in them.

All in all, if there is a good reason for molybdenum concentrating in those body parts, strawberries might be a source.

Oh, my pleasure, G! Thank you for the link! It was very helpful. :)

You know, your posts crack me up! I really appreciate your humor and the light-heartedness you add to the forum. It's nice to learn about the science but it's also nice to get a good laugh at the same time.

I see that parsley is a good source of molybdenum and there's parsley in most of my herbal formulas. In Dr. Morse's book, he states this under parsley:

• A tremendous herb for the urinary tract and adrenal glands.
• Has a strengthening and cleansing effect upon the kidneys.
• High in chlorophyll, therefor it enhances the blood and cleans and moves the lymphatics.
• Excellent for heavy metal and chemical toxicity.
• Enhances nerve and heart function.
• Superb for the endocrine glands.
• Increases the iron-carrying capacity of the blood. (Molybdenum?)
• Used to fight infections.
• Used in cases of jaundice and dropsy (edema).
• Excellent for upper respiratory congestion and infections.
• Also used in conjunctivitis and inflammation of the eyelids.

Scientific name: Petroselinum sativum
Parts used: Whole herb; leaves, root and seeds
Actions: Antiperiodic (juice), antisposmotic, aperient, aromatic, carminative (seeds), culinary, diuretic, emmenagogue (seeds), febrifuge (seeds), tonic, vulnerary.

If molybdenum concentrates in these tissues and parsley is a good source of it, I wonder if it's one of the constituents that makes parsley so beneficial for those tissues? Wouldn't it be cool to study plants? There's this book called the Secret Life of Plants by Peter Tompkins that I've been wanting to read and this one that Dr. Morse recommended that I think you might find interesting:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0132092301/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1