The Policosanols Thread

[Dr. B]

I have a tree in the backyard. The fruit is small, usually 1.5 inch diameter, occasionally 2 inches. Nice to eat it as a tree-ripened fruit, although birds usually peck at it before I get to it, which is fine. These are native guavas, which is why it's small. The inside is pink, and it is sweet with a slight tartiness, so sometimes it's also used to make a sour soup, like tarmarind, when it's not not yet ripe. The guava you find at supermarkets may be the larger kinds, more crunchy and the flesh is white. Taiwan makes good guava of this kind. It's not as sweet though, as it has to be picked when it's not ripe, otherwise it spoils in transit.

It's known for its pectin enzyme. It can sometimes be constipating, but if you've got a healthy gut, it has no effect.


When I mix the policosanol in ethanol (with ultrasound) it turns the ethanol into a weak milky white. When I add the Vitamin E (with glycerin and water from the capsule), and mix again, it blends into a homogenous transparent liquid. It always leaves a waxy coating after I drink up the mixture from the test tube, and it takes longer to clean up. I wonder how well it dissolves into the olive oil.


I took it for 2 weeks, mixed as I described with the photos earlier.

Then I stopped for two weeks, as my bp went uip after going down iinitially. But there was no loose bowel during the 2 weeks I was taking it.

When I resumed, I began to experience loose bowel.

Last night, I removed the policosanol from the mixture, but this morning I still have loose bowels.

Once my gut settles (taking AC and skipping breakfast), I'll do a mixture with the policosanol but without the cyclodextrin, and see how that goes.

It's odd I'm getting a delayed gut reaction to it. It may be that it's taking a while for the gut lining biofilm to be disrupted, and whatever is released by the biofilm is causing the loose bowel movement. But I'm not just taking the policosanols, so any of the components could be causing that, or a combination of.

interesting, im gonna get beeswax and policosanols soon, may do the swanson capsules for policosanols.

regarding biofilms, what supplements or food strategies do you recommend to break and excrete biofilms... i heard magnesium stearate can contribute to these which is odd since stearic acid is apparently useful to supplement or consume? would saturated fat from the diet be enough to break biofilms up...

also apparently kidney fat is more saturated, and has more stearic acid

 

[Dr. B]

I wonder about the need to take Q10.

6.4CoQ10​

CoQ10 is a vitamin-like compound that becomes important to ingest or supplement when using statin drugs, as endogenous synthesis of CoQ10 is reduced when the HMG-CoA enzyme is inhibited; synthesis normally occurs to sustain CoQ10 levels and mitochondrial function, and the decrease may lead to myopathies and increased fatigue.

As the mechanisms of policosanol are ultimately mediated via HMG-CoA, a long-term deficiency of CoQ10 could be suspect. This has not been reported in chronic studies with Policosanol currently (1-2 years) when dosed at 10-20mg, but has not been ruled out either.

Research Breakdown on Policosanol - Examine

examine.com

concerning friend

 

[AJA]

In my case, and everyone is obviously different, I noticed some muscle weakness after starting on the 20mg at night dose. I thought this was blood thinning as I described earlier on this thread. Now, I believe it was low Q10. In my mid-fifties, I workout with weights 3 times a week (HIT) which some would say borders on bodybuilding. I have logged 5 million plus steps on my Fitbit the past two years. So I am active, and therefore, my Q10 levels may be lower than others or lower than others my age.

I do believe the HMG-CoA enzyme is involved. But the good news is that may mean a lot of the the Cuban studies are spot on. Part of that is based on the fact that I started on Q10 100mg x2 a few days ago and noticed a big difference, less fatigue and the muscle weakness is gone. So I will stay on these two supplements. The positives are clearly there for me. I have been taking Vitamin K for several years now and I believe that in practice (not in theory) that Q10 does things that Vitamin K does not, hence the symptoms described above. But I am a case study of one.

 

[Dr. B]

In my case, and everyone is obviously different, I noticed some muscle weakness after starting on the 20mg at night dose. In my mid-fifties, I also workout with weights 3 times a week in a vigorous manner which some would say borders on bodybuilding. I have logged 5 million plus steps on my Fitbit the past two years. So I am active, and therefore, my Q10 levels may be lower than others or lower than others my age.

I do believe the HMG-CoA enzyme is involved. Part of that is based on the fact that I started on Q10 100mg x2 a few days ago and noticed a big difference, less fatigue and the muscle weakness is gone. So I will stay on these two supplements. I have been taking Vitamin K for several years now and I believe that in practice (not in theory) that Q10 does things that Vitamin K does not, hence the symptoms described above. But I am a case study of one.

isnt CoQ10 made from a mix of the b vitamins so maybe the thiamine is causing an imbalance with other b vitamins affecting production of coq10?
and the thing thats concerning is now if youre supplementing coq10, is that coq10 now depleting something else which you also need to supplement or something?

 

[AJA]

Thank you for the input.

I take 100 mg of Thiamine x3 per day and B-50 complex x3 per day. These have been for some time now. I do not think Q10 depletes anything I know of. I have taken it in the past with no issues.

The muscle weakness and fatigue started more after several days of the policosanol 20 mg dosage. I may have noticed it because I lift weights and or my levels were borderline low before and the supplement put me over the threshold. Age and activity level may be involved here. Inactive individuals my age might just chalk it up to “getting older”.

Anyways, I have the time and resources to stay on these supplements and monitor how it is going. So that is where I am at at this time. Overall, I am very positive about policosanol.

 

[yerrag]

I have a tree in the backyard. The fruit is small, usually 1.5 inch diameter, occasionally 2 inches. Nice to eat it as a tree-ripened fruit, although birds usually peck at it before I get to it, which is fine. These are native guavas, which is why it's small. The inside is pink, and it is sweet with a slight tartiness, so sometimes it's also used to make a sour soup, like tarmarind, when it's not not yet ripe. The guava you find at supermarkets may be the larger kinds, more crunchy and the flesh is white. Taiwan makes good guava of this kind. It's not as sweet though, as it has to be picked when it's not ripe, otherwise it spoils in transit.

It's known for its pectin enzyme. It can sometimes be constipating, but if you've got a healthy gut, it has no effect.


When I mix the policosanol in ethanol (with ultrasound) it turns the ethanol into a weak milky white. When I add the Vitamin E (with glycerin and water from the capsule), and mix again, it blends into a homogenous transparent liquid. It always leaves a waxy coating after I drink up the mixture from the test tube, and it takes longer to clean up. I wonder how well it dissolves into the olive oil.


I took it for 2 weeks, mixed as I described with the photos earlier.

Then I stopped for two weeks, as my bp went uip after going down iinitially. But there was no loose bowel during the 2 weeks I was taking it.

When I resumed, I began to experience loose bowel.

Last night, I removed the policosanol from the mixture, but this morning I still have loose bowels.

Once my gut settles (taking AC and skipping breakfast), I'll do a mixture with the policosanol but without the cyclodextrin, and see how that goes.

It's odd I'm getting a delayed gut reaction to it. It may be that it's taking a while for the gut lining biofilm to be disrupted, and whatever is released by the biofilm is causing the loose bowel movement. But I'm not just taking the policosanols, so any of the components could be causing that, or a combination of.

I had my mixture of gamma E (2 x 600 capsule of Ultimate Gamma E - removed from capsule) and 20 mg Purebulk policosanol and ethanol, mixed in a test tube in an ultrasonic bath. It took me 30 minutes to get the policosanol evenly dispersed into the vit E ethanol broth, which is a lot longer than if I had the cyclodextrins in.

I didn't experience loose bowels anymore. I may still put back in the 2hp-beta-cyclodextrin but in lower quantities. It was at 30mg, so I may just dial it down to 10mg in the future.

 

[Mauritio]

have a tree in the backyard. The fruit is small, usually 1.5 inch diameter, occasionally 2 inches. Nice to eat it as a tree-ripened fruit, although birds usually peck at it before I get to it, which is fine. These are native guavas, which is why it's small. The inside is pink, and it is sweet with a slight tartiness, so sometimes it's also used to make a sour soup, like tarmarind, when it's not not yet ripe. The guava you find at supermarkets may be the larger kinds, more crunchy and the flesh is white. Taiwan makes good guava of this kind. It's not as sweet though, as it has to be picked when it's not ripe, otherwise it spoils in transit.

It's known for its pectin enzyme. It can sometimes be constipating, but if you've got a healthy gut, it has no effect.

Thanks !

When I mix the policosanol in ethanol (with ultrasound) it turns the ethanol into a weak milky white. When I add the Vitamin E (with glycerin and water from the capsule), and mix again, it blends into a homogenous transparent liquid. It always leaves a waxy coating after I drink up the mixture from the test tube, and it takes longer to clean up. I wonder how well it dissolves into the olive oil.

Do you think it makes a difference if you mix them thoroughly like you do or if you just take the isolated chemicals at the same time ?

 

[reaching]

Uhh so when is a good time to take?
At night before bed?

 

[yerrag]

Thanks !
Do you think it makes a difference if you mix them thoroughly like you do or if you just take the isolated chemicals at the same time ?

Since I've not tried taking the policosanol in any other way (except for the one day or two I took it mixed with cocoa butter with resulting loose stools), I don't have a reference point for comparison.

But with the way I'm doing it, I'm getting good results that indicate lower oxidative stress and lower immune response in the form of lower wbc and neutrophils, corroborated by lower urination at night and much less foaming in the urine. I do weekly cbc tests to monitor changes. While my blood pressure is not dropping, I can see why it's not happening yet so I'm staying the course, and adding to my stack.

I did an ESR test today and I got a value of 12, range being 0-15. This is very high as the last time I tested this 3 years ago, my ESR was a perfect 0. This likely means I've got a lot of crud in my blood, and this crud very likely is debri from the lysing of plaque enabled by my vitamin E mixture. It seems to be very effective, and the dosage I used may need to be dialed down. Aside from ESR, I also see my CBC RDW going up. RDW in my case is high at 14 (above the threshold of 13), and this is caused by the crud plugging up my capillaries, causing red blood cells having to extrude itself to pass through the capillaries made tight by crud accumulation. This causes RDW value to increase.

So my blood pressure still stays high, but the cause has shifted from high oxidative stress from an excessive inflammatory autoimmune response to the fallout from debri from lysed plaque that includes a necrotic core composed of dead macrophages, oxidized cholesterol, calcium, and dead bacteria spanning 20 years and the whole vascular network.

Solving a health problem involves a lot of twists and turns, and this is no exception. And this is why fixing my hypertension has for me become a peak experience in itself.

 

[yerrag]

Since I've not tried taking the policosanol in any other way (except for the one day or two I took it mixed with cocoa butter with resulting loose stools), I don't have a reference point for comparison.

But with the way I'm doing it, I'm getting good results that indicate lower oxidative stress and lower immune response in the form of lower wbc and neutrophils, corroborated by lower urination at night and much less foaming in the urine. I do weekly cbc tests to monitor changes. While my blood pressure is not dropping, I can see why it's not happening yet so I'm staying the course, and adding to my stack.

I did an ESR test today and I got a value of 12, range being 0-15. This is very high as the last time I tested this 3 years ago, my ESR was a perfect 0. This likely means I've got a lot of crud in my blood, and this crud very likely is debri from the lysing of plaque enabled by my vitamin E mixture. It seems to be very effective, and the dosage I used may need to be dialed down. Aside from ESR, I also see my CBC RDW going up. RDW in my case is high at 14 (above the threshold of 13), and this is caused by the crud plugging up my capillaries, causing red blood cells having to extrude itself to pass through the capillaries made tight by crud accumulation. This causes RDW value to increase.

So my blood pressure still stays high, but the cause has shifted from high oxidative stress from an excessive inflammatory autoimmune response to the fallout from debri from lysed plaque that includes a necrotic core composed of dead macrophages, oxidized cholesterol, calcium, and dead bacteria spanning 20 years and the whole vascular network.

Solving a health problem involves a lot of twists and turns, and this is no exception. And this is why fixing my hypertension has for me become a peak experience in itself.

@Mauritio

It turns out my loose stools is coming from a source I did not suspect. Since my loose stools continue after discontinuing my vitamin E mixture for a day, I looked at what else I was taking. And it turns out I also began taking a Japanese herbal formula called Mashiningan. It turns out it's also used for constipation. So I'm stopping its use and going back to the Vitamin E mixture I started out with -

1200mg Vit E (2 caps of Ultimate Gamma)
20mg PureBulk policosanol
30mg L'Eternal World 2hp-beta-cyclodextrin
ethanol (as solvent)

Mixed in a test tube surrounded by water in an ultrasonic bath

I was taking this 2x/day but will lower it to 1x/day. This dosage may still go further down as Dr. Wilfrid Shute has recommended much lower dosages for hypertension over a much longer period of time (but then at the time the prevailing vitamin E wisdom was that only the alpha tocopherol isomer was of value, regardless of whether it was the synthetic or natural version of it).

 

[Mauritio]

@Mauritio

It turns out my loose stools is coming from a source I did not suspect. Since my loose stools continue after discontinuing my vitamin E mixture for a day, I looked at what else I was taking. And it turns out I also began taking a Japanese herbal formula called Mashiningan. It turns out it's also used for constipation. So I'm stopping its use and going back to the Vitamin E mixture I started out with -

1200mg Vit E (2 caps of Ultimate Gamma)
20mg PureBulk policosanol
30mg L'Eternal World 2hp-beta-cyclodextrin
ethanol (as solvent)

Mixed in a test tube surrounded by water in an ultrasonic bath

I was taking this 2x/day but will lower it to 1x/day. This dosage may still go further down as Dr. Wilfrid Shute has recommended much lower dosages for hypertension over a much longer period of time (but then at the time the prevailing vitamin E wisdom was that only the alpha tocopherol isomer was of value, regardless of whether it was the synthetic or natural version of it).

Interesting I'm actually looking for something to alleviate constipation . Any other effects you noticed from this formula?

 

[yerrag]

Interesting I'm actually looking for something to alleviate constipation . Any other effects you noticed from this formula?

If your question was about mashiningan, i don't feel anything except for the loose bowel movement. It's kinda hit or miss with TCM (this is based on TCM). It was supposed to be have anti-adherence properties, to keep bacteria from adhering to blood vessel walls to keep biofilms from forming again.

If your question was on the vitamin E mixture, other than what I said earlier - no. It's a bit complicated to explain, but I sense that the foam cells and the oxidized ldl components, and the necrotic core structure stuck between the outer and middle lining of blood vessels, were disintegrating and my immune cells, particularly the neutrophils, were able to seek and destroy the bacteria that were eluding capture before. So after 2 weeks of vitamin E intake, I stopped vitamin E intake so that the carpet bombing, so to speak, could cease, so that my cleanup crew could mop up for the next 2 weeks. During that time, I was urinating a lot, waking up 4x each night, and my urine was very foamy. At the end of that mop up period, I was urinating much less at night, and the urine had little foam.

Because of less phagycytic activity by the neutrophils, there was less acid production, and my urine became more alkaline. But the downside is that there was a lot of crud coming out from the larger blood vessels, and I was still experiencing high blood pressure. This was because the crud was gumming up my capillaries. So, now I've started to take some potassium citrate to increase zeta potential, to improve blood flow, and I've begun to take aspirin, which is an anticoagulant. I've ordered some TocoVt as well, as the alpha-tocopherol heavy TocoVit may be more effective as an anti-coagulant on the capillaries.

 

[LA]

very interesting thread. The husband of someone I used to take art classes with was taking Policosanols. He was using something he would purchase in Miami and it was from Cuban Sugar Cane. No I dont know how they brought it to Miami from Cuba. He used it to lose weight and feel stronger; it seemed to work. I dont know anymore about it except that when I was a kid we could purchase sugar cane at the local small food store. It was very enjoyable and not sold around here these days.

PS. after I totally stopped eating any starch I was never (am never) constipated. Also, high doses of ascorbic acid will help most people with constipation if they take AA daily. Hope you feel better.

 

[yerrag]

very interesting thread. The husband of someone I used to take art classes with was taking Policosanols. He was using something he would purchase in Miami and it was from Cuban Sugar Cane. No I dont know how they brought it to Miami from Cuba. He used it to lose weight and feel stronger; it seemed to work. I dont know anymore about it except that when I was a kid we could purchase sugar cane at the local small food store. It was very enjoyable and not sold around here these days.

PS. after I totally stopped eating any starch I was never (am never) constipated. Also, high doses of ascorbic acid will help most people with constipation if they take AA daily. Hope you feel better.

Thanks.

I don't feel anything at all with the high blood pressure. No headache. No nothing. I have no health needs but health wants, definitely haha.

But I know this is just an adaptation by my body, and sooner or later, I will pay the price so I'm giving it my full attention and not waiting for the bridge to come to me.

 

[LA]

Thanks.

I don't feel anything at all with the high blood pressure. No headache. No nothing. I have no health needs but health wants, definitely haha.

But I know this is just an adaptation by my body, and sooner or later, I will pay the price so I'm giving it my full attention and not waiting for the bridge to come to me.

Yes be pro-active it is your life. You are kind to many on this forum so stay alive and as healthy as you can be.

 

[Jam]

Mashiningan

7.5 g of TSUMURA Mashiningan extract granules contains 2.25 g of a dried extract of the following mixed crude drugs.
JP Hemp Fruit …………………........ 5.0 g
JP Rhubarb ..................................... 4.0 g
JP Immature Orange …............... 2.0 g
JP Apricot Kernel .......................... 2.0 g
JP Magnolia Bark .......................... 2.0 g
JP Peony Root ................................ 2.0 g

Rhubarb contains emodin, so yeah.

 

[yerrag]

7.5 g of TSUMURA Mashiningan extract granules contains 2.25 g of a dried extract of the following mixed crude drugs.
JP Hemp Fruit …………………........ 5.0 g
JP Rhubarb ..................................... 4.0 g
JP Immature Orange …............... 2.0 g
JP Apricot Kernel .......................... 2.0 g
JP Magnolia Bark .......................... 2.0 g
JP Peony Root ................................ 2.0 g

Rhubarb contains emodin, so yeah.

Thanks. Rhubarb is pretty potent.

If I wanted to remove some biofilms in my gut, this would work. But biofilms will always be there in the gut. And currently, I'm fine with my gut biofilm.

I wanted it to be used on my blood vessel biofilms, but unfortunately, it had to first go through the gut.

I'll settle now for some daily Indian Chai. It's milder on my gut and it also tastes better.

The spices-cloves, Ceylon cinnamon, allspice, nutmeg, ginger, cardamom - will be helpful.

 

[Jam]

FWIW, apricot kernels contain high levels of cyanide...

 

[Mauritio]

mashiningan

Yes was talking about that... where did you buy it?

 

[yerrag]

Ma Zi Ren Wan 100 gm

Ma Zi Ren Wan, by Sun Ten, 100 grams also known as Apricot Seed and Hemp Seed Formula. For constipation. Get a Free 15 Minute Consultation with purchase.

www.acuatlanta.net

Same as mashiningan