Mauritio

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Mixing orange peel wax with mct is a real winner. It absorbs much quicker and is great for the skin. Still waiting for Georgi to talk more about the wax.... Georgi...??
What benefits do you notice from it ?
 

863127

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@miquelangeles

:):

Yeah I'm not worried about mycotoxins from just letting the pollen ferment a few days. If it looks good, smells good, tastes good, I trust the balancing of the bacteria, yeasts, enzymes etc. It reminded me of making kombucha; here's something about aflatoxin that was in black tea being made safer by the kombucha yeasts:


I do add a little raw honey too, for the bacterias, yeasts, enzymes in that adding to the mix to make it altogether more synergistic. I also add shilajit; maybe the humic and fulvic acids in that help the fermentation balance. (If you're interested, I can tell where to get good unadulterated shilajit from Siberia for a much better price than what's marketed to Western countries.)

I haven't tried fermenting bee bread into a drink many times because of the price of it. But I have added it to vodka, with propolis and bees (called "subpestilence", or "podmore" in Russia). The combination of those three makes a really good immune system-boosting tincture.

All those monofloral varieties... Wow. So fancy, so luxurious. I haven't tried those. I'd like to. I don't have bee hives and I don't know who to buy those from. GloryBee sells 5 lb buckets of certified organic pollen from Spain for $100, that I've bought, that seems good quality and value to me. I know some about herbalism, and hawthorn is a good heart tonic, wild rose is good for the heart in an emotional way and good for nerves, and willow bark for pain relief (like aspirin). What are your feelings with the varities of pollens?

So you notice more immediate energy drinking the blended drink than just fermented? I assumed the fermentation for a few days would break the cell walls quite a bit. I'll try blending it when I get some more pollen. Maybe letting it ferment some, blending it, and then letting it ferment some more would be even better -- letting the fermentation interact with some more things.

Do you know if the oily fraction has a name, in some cultures or herbal medicine traditions? It sounds like something that might be considered a special essence kind of thing, that could be made into something special. Do you know if it rises to the top when a lot of pollen is put in high-proof alcohol? I'm thinking it could be useful to make a spagyric essence (like a tincture). Do you know about spagyrics? That could be made using a 190 proof tincture of the pollen, the oil from pollen in water (or maybe high proof alcohol), and the (purified) mineral salts of the pollen. There's a chemical reaction during making a spagyric where the oil and the mineral salts react to make the oil become alcohol soluble so it mixes into the alcohol of the tincture part of the mixture, so it all becomes preserved in the high-proof alcohol, and can be quickly absorbed sublingually. And alchemical reasoning is that the mineral salts being included (instead of remaining mostly in the plant material like when making a non-spagyric tincture, just soaking the plant in alcohol and pouring off the alcohol) make the spagyric affect the body more strongly per dose than a non-spagyric tincture, because of Salt being the alchemical Body (and Mercury is Spirit (alcohol), and Sulphur is Soul (oil), the three chemically reacting in the making of a spagyric making the spagyric affect each of the three in the person more than just a Mercury/Spirit/alcohol tincture). I tried a wild rose spagryic, and just a drop or two on the tongue was a much stronger more noticeable effect than a drop of any tincture I've used, and felt more immediately visceral, more present in my sense of touch somehow that I think had something to do with the salts and oils reacting to combine into the alcohol, the Body and Soul of the rose being included with the Spirit in the spagyric. It sounds a little wacky maybe, but I think it can make better medicines than tinctures with just alcohol (and water). And fermentation doesn't make the mineral salts and oils react the way they do in a spagyric because for that the mineral salts need to be purified (calcined (burned) and dissolved in water) before being mixed back in with the oils and alcohol.

What brands of enzyme complexes do you recommend? I've put pollen in raw milk -- I thought the things in the raw milk would complement what's in the pollen like adding honey does and help the fermentation -- and let them ferment for several days and that feels easily digested too, like the pollen and water ferment, but I can't really compare the nutrition availability from the pollen doing that because of the milk nutrients' feeling. A quick online search shows that Bacillus is in raw milk. I think I remember reading something about putting pollen in raw milk or kefir before fermentation being a common way somewhere in Eastern Europe to make the pollen nutrition easily digested.
 
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Inaut

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What benefits do you notice from it ?
Skin feels really good. I applied it after a sun burn on my face and it kind of burned at first but afterwards skin healed very quickly. My dishydrotic eczema had also gone away. It was on the way out with just lanolin/mct but since adding the wax, my hands are clear :) :)

@Mufasa I tried it orally the first day I got it but it kind of burned going down so i stopped. I’m also awaiting a response from the supplier regarding processing methods so until I hear back I won’t be taking it orally. Ordered some bees wax to try out orally though.
 

miquelangeles

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@863127

That's interesting about kombucha.
I will definitely experiment with fermenting pollen. I usually avoid fermented foods because they cause all kinds of reactions, but anything that is yeast fermented seems to always be fine. It must be the lactic acid or some other bacterial byproducts, since the yeasts don't naturally produce lactic acid.
You can drop me a message with the shilajit you mentioned. The one I use is sourced from Kyrgyzstan, it's likely of decent quality and safety because it's available in pharmacies and is tested by the health authority.

I've been wanting to buy a bottle of beluga vodka and make some tinctures but haven't gotten to it yet. I suspect the bee venom is also a key element in podmore.
Apropos of "YOU WILL EAT THE BUGS" meme, have you tried apilarnil? It's male bee larvae. They are usually used in cocktails together with honey, pollen, propolis, bee bread, royal jelly - but they can be taken in isolation too.
Beekeepers (and even bees themselves) throw out the male larvae. They usually feed them to chicken, but in the 80s one guy noticed that his chicken were growing faster and bigger than the neighbours' chicken, and began studying and promoting the consumption of male bee larvae. They contain androgens and have an anabolic effect.

There are a lot of monofloral varieties of pollen available. The beauty of it is that it can be easily "stolen" from the poor bees and separated, because plants don't bloom all at the same time. I'm in eastern europe and nowadays beekeepers are making a significant profit by selling bee pollen, there's an increasing demand.
It seems that the pollen resembles the therapeutic effects of the plant it comes from. Hawthorn pollen feels quite sedating. I find the wild rose very energizing. The willow does feel anti inflammatory. A multifloral pollen like the one you have from Spain is probably better and more balanced as a regular supplement unless you want to treat something specifically.

I don't know much about the oily fraction neither about spagyrics in general, but it is a quite sticky oily pigment depending on flower source it can be very staining.

I don't prefer any particular brand of enzymes. I use a bromelain/papain powder, and sometimes more complex enzyme supplements whatever I happen to have on hand, I simply dissolve two capsules or sachets.
At some point I was about to buy a decent microscope to identify in what conditions the pollen will germinate and there is tube growth, or whether the enzymes really degrade the wall. But something is definitely happening, especially after high speed blending you can see the swollen (and likely empty) shells settling on the bottom in a faster way. We've hijacked this policosanol thread btw.
 

Inaut

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@863127

That's interesting about kombucha.
I will definitely experiment with fermenting pollen. I usually avoid fermented foods because they cause all kinds of reactions, but anything that is yeast fermented seems to always be fine. It must be the lactic acid or some other bacterial byproducts, since the yeasts don't naturally produce lactic acid.
You can drop me a message with the shilajit you mentioned. The one I use is sourced from Kyrgyzstan, it's likely of decent quality and safety because it's available in pharmacies and is tested by the health authority.

I've been wanting to buy a bottle of beluga vodka and make some tinctures but haven't gotten to it yet. I suspect the bee venom is also a key element in podmore.
Apropos of "YOU WILL EAT THE BUGS" meme, have you tried apilarnil? It's male bee larvae. They are usually used in cocktails together with honey, pollen, propolis, bee bread, royal jelly - but they can be taken in isolation too.
Beekeepers (and even bees themselves) throw out the male larvae. They usually feed them to chicken, but in the 80s one guy noticed that his chicken were growing faster and bigger than the neighbours' chicken, and began studying and promoting the consumption of male bee larvae. They contain androgens and have an anabolic effect.

There are a lot of monofloral varieties of pollen available. The beauty of it is that it can be easily "stolen" from the poor bees and separated, because plants don't bloom all at the same time. I'm in eastern europe and nowadays beekeepers are making a significant profit by selling bee pollen, there's an increasing demand.
It seems that the pollen resembles the therapeutic effects of the plant it comes from. Hawthorn pollen feels quite sedating. I find the wild rose very energizing. The willow does feel anti inflammatory. A multifloral pollen like the one you have from Spain is probably better and more balanced as a regular supplement unless you want to treat something specifically.

I don't know much about the oily fraction neither about spagyrics in general, but it is a quite sticky oily pigment depending on flower source it can be very staining.

I don't prefer any particular brand of enzymes. I use a bromelain/papain powder, and sometimes more complex enzyme supplements whatever I happen to have on hand, I simply dissolve two capsules or sachets.
At some point I was about to buy a decent microscope to identify in what conditions the pollen will germinate and there is tube growth, or whether the enzymes really degrade the wall. But something is definitely happening, especially after high speed blending you can see the swollen (and likely empty) shells settling on the bottom in a faster way. We've hijacked this policosanol thread btw.

i have a habit of derailing threads too :( maybe start up a bee pollen thread so we don’t clutter this up too much? Just a suggestion
 

Mauritio

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Skin feels really good. I applied it after a sun burn on my face and it kind of burned at first but afterwards skin healed very quickly. My dishydrotic eczema had also gone away. It was on the way out with just lanolin/mct but since adding the wax, my hands are clear :) :)

@Mufasa I tried it orally the first day I got it but it kind of burned going down so i stopped. I’m also awaiting a response from the supplier regarding processing methods so until I hear back I won’t be taking it orally. Ordered some bees wax to try out orally though.
Awesome !
 

Mauritio

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I think policosanol help a great bit with my seasonal allergies! Wouldn't be surprised if they did, but only tried once so far .

The link doesnt seem to work .
Here's the original study:
 

Dave Clark

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For your information/entertainment: talks about bees wax along with many other things regarding policosanol.
 

Inaut

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For your information/entertainment: talks about bees wax along with many other things regarding policosanol.
Really glad Raghu is speaking for majority of this. Great share @Dave Clark
 

miquelangeles

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For your information/entertainment: talks about bees wax along with many other things regarding policosanol.

He talks about how this molecule is beneficial and ubiquitous in nature but it has been removed through modern food processing.

He says that his product is completely natural, containing 99.96% water (snow water from high altitude) and policosanol.

But then he says that he was able to obtain a patent because his unique formulation provides special biological effects that were not previously described for this substance.

He mentions that others have tried to make a water soluble formulation of policosanol but they failed, because they didn't get the particle size right.

If you check his patents on Google, the particle size is between 40 nm and 70 nm.

I don't question the efficacy of his product, but it would be more appropriate to classify this product as a pharmaceutical.

Naturally occurring policosanol has a particle size in the μm range. Upon ingestion it can probably get metabolized or emulsified by the body into nm size, but the nm particle size is not naturally occurring.

It is known that many nanoparticle substances can have very different biological effects depending on particle size, one such example is colloidal gold which can have either a beneficial or a negative effect.

Nevertheless, I would give his product a try.

policosanol_particle_size.jpg
 

Dave Clark

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He talks about how this molecule is beneficial and ubiquitous in nature but it has been removed through modern food processing.

He says that his product is completely natural, containing 99.96% water (snow water from high altitude) and policosanol.

But then he says that he was able to obtain a patent because his unique formulation provides special biological effects that were not previously described for this substance.

He mentions that others have tried to make a water soluble formulation of policosanol but they failed, because they didn't get the particle size right.

If you check his patents on Google, the particle size is between 40 nm and 70 nm.

I don't question the efficacy of his product, but it would be more appropriate to classify this product as a pharmaceutical.

Naturally occurring policosanol has a particle size in the μm range. Upon ingestion it can probably get metabolized or emulsified by the body into nm size, but the nm particle size is not naturally occurring.

It is known that many nanoparticle substances can have very different biological effects depending on particle size, one such example is colloidal gold which can have either a beneficial or a negative effect.

Nevertheless, I would give his product a try.

View attachment 24223
I suppose the only way he could get a patent on something readily found in nature/food, is to change the size to nano, which is why it works like it does. I am sure the policosanols found in food may work, but a study of policosanol from food against this nano form would define which is working better. I have not heard any similar testimonials from people taking the supplement policosanol, sans the cholesterol lowering effects. Like anything else, sooner than later the light will shine on this product as to whether or not it is as real as they say, or marketing bunk. If one has disposable cash, and issues to address, it would be worth testing to see if anything good happens. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
 

Inaut

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I suppose the only way he could get a patent on something readily found in nature/food, is to change the size to nano, which is why it works like it does. I am sure the policosanols found in food may work, but a study of policosanol from food against this nano form would define which is working better. I have not heard any similar testimonials from people taking the supplement policosanol, sans the cholesterol lowering effects. Like anything else, sooner than later the light will shine on this product as to whether or not it is as real as they say, or marketing bunk. If one has disposable cash, and issues to address, it would be worth testing to see if anything good happens. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I think he uses ultrasound. Might be able to replicate it with a jewelry cleaner for a fraction of the price.
 

miquelangeles

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I think he uses ultrasound. Might be able to replicate it with a jewelry cleaner for a fraction of the price.

Edited to correct mistake - it is 80-85° C not 80-850°.


This paper describes a method using high-pressure homogenization, and also mentions Raghavan's patented method by "continuous stirring and heating".
Raghavan does not disclose the exact temperature, but the range given is 80-850C so it can be quite high.

"Only two patents were found that described the formation of policosanol nanoparticles, and one of the patents described formation of policosanol nanoemulsion by continuous stirring and heating. Nanoemulsion is one of the emerging nanotechnologies, that confer the controlled delivery of pharmaceuticals and cosmetics.35 Nanoemulsions are oil-in-water (O/W) or water-in-oil (W/O) transparent liquid dispersions with a diameter of 20–200 nm.36,37 It is quite apparent that the smaller the droplet size, the more resistant the nanoemulsion is to destabilization because of gravitational separation, flocculation, and coalescence. To date, no known studies have used high-pressure homogenization to form rice bran wax (RBW) policosanol nanoemulsion. In the present study, policosanol was extracted from RBW, a nanoemulsion was prepared, and its stability characteristics were monitored. The policosanol nanoemulsion formation was performed in two steps: pre-emulsion formation and high-pressure homogenization.


From Raghavan's patent EP20100744101:

EXAMPLE 1
[0145] Preparation of a liquid formulation containing 1% policosanol
1. Prepare a water solution (100 mL) containing sucrose laureate (0.1-0.5%) and warm up to 80-850C 80-85°C under stirring. 2. In a beaker, weigh the Policosanol (1 g) and at least one excipient or stabilizer (2-5 g) and warm up to 80-850C 80-85°C under stirring.
3. Pour the sugar ester solution into the beaker with Policosanol and the excipient under strong stirring and keep at 80-850C 80-85°C for 5 min under stirring. When the temperature is below 500C, 50°C the formulation becomes transparent.
4. Switch off the heater and keep under moderate stirring until room temperature is reached.
5. Add a preservative (e.g., potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, citric acid anhydrous).
6. Put the solution into the bottles.
 
Last edited:

Inaut

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I didn’t see any references so it makes me think it’s really hyping the brand but definitely enjoyed reading it.

A few things...

1. I just rectified some raw/organic beeswax (great product from Northern Alberta) today and ingested a gram of it. Make sure you buy good stuff if you are going to ingest.. The other brand I bought gave me some gi discomfort but my bowel movements were very good while taking it so take from that what you will..
2. Beeswax may be the cheapest, easiest source of policosanols we can get our hands on and you don’t need much of it daily... Beeswax also has other long chain acids as per @Mufasa which may have other benefits.
3. I think bees produce almost perfect medicine/food for us humans. Flora also depends on them..
4. I was wondering why I hit a wall with google searching on policosanols. Very few hits from google... I just typed in octacosanol and see a lot more relevant info.
 

Mauritio

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I didn’t see any references so it makes me think it’s really hyping the brand but definitely enjoyed reading it.

A few things...

1. I just rectified some raw/organic beeswax (great product from Northern Alberta) today and ingested a gram of it. Make sure you buy good stuff if you are going to ingest.. The other brand I bought gave me some gi discomfort but my bowel movements were very good while taking it so take from that what you will..
2. Beeswax may be the cheapest, easiest source of policosanols we can get our hands on and you don’t need much of it daily... Beeswax also has other long chain acids as per @Mufasa which may have other benefits.
3. I think bees produce almost perfect medicine/food for us humans. Flora also depends on them..
4. I was wondering why I hit a wall with google searching on policosanols. Very few hits from google... I just typed in octacosanol and see a lot more relevant info.
Do you notice a difference from taking bulk policosanols compared to beeswax?
 

Inaut

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Do you notice a difference from taking bulk policosanols compared to beeswax?
I never noticed anything I could attribute specifically to policosanols as I’m feeling pretty good these days and take a couple of supplements but beeswax has more effect on my bowel movements for sure.
 
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