Mauritio

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In his latest interview with danny roddy and @haidut ray peat talked about policosanols beeing best at replacing stores PUFA over time.
They start talking about it at about 1:33:00


Now this is an important topic ,yet I haven't found much info on it.
Why dont we compile some info here and create some clarity?

First some questions that need to be answered:

1 . Policosanols usually come in pills of 50mgs per dosage . Wouldnt it take decades to centuries to replace pounds of PUFA in the tissues ? Or...

2. Should we take higher dosage for the purpose of replacing PUFA in the tissue ?

3. Therefore would take years to feel benefits or should there be some short term benefits as well ?

4.Has anybody tried policosanols for that purpose ?

5. Would it be counterproductive to take Vitamin E or aspirin with policosanols?

I know they might or might not have benefits for heart disease ,depending on which countrys studies you look at ,but this thread is for discussing its function on replacing PUFA.
 
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Mauritio

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Octacosanol and policosanol prevent high-fat diet-induced obesity and metabolic disorders by activating brown adipose tissue and improving liver metabolism | Scientific Reports

"However, mice fed on HFD treated with octacosanol or policosanol (HFDo/p) showed lower body weight gain, body fat gain, insulin resistance and hepatic lipid content. Lower body fat gain after octacosanol or policosanol was associated with increased BAT activity, reduced expression of genes involved in lipogenesis and cholesterol uptake in the liver, and amelioration of white adipose tissue (WAT) inflammation. Moreover, octacosanol and policosanol significantly increased the expression of Ffar4, a gene encoding polyunsaturated fatty acid receptor, which activates BAT thermogenesis."

What does that FFAR4 receptor do ,besides thermogenesis ? I guess it burns pufa from the tissue and that's how policosanol lowers pufa ?

Haidut stated years ago that bat thermogenesis isnt healthy , so I dont know what that means for policosanols stimulate that process ...
Why "cold Thermogenesis" Is Not Good For You
 
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Mauritio

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In Vitro and In Vivo Study of Octacosanol Metabolism - ScienceDirect

Interesting study showing that policosanol mainly increases concentrations of saturated fatty and some unsaturated fats, but all of which are monounsaturated!
Dosages were quite high ! Rat dose comes down to HED of 700-1000mg of policosanols.

Results
When fibroblasts were cultured in presence of 3H-octacosanol, three spots were found: a first one corresponded to octacosanoic acid, a second to octacosanol and a third one remained unidentified. The radioactivity on the spot of octacosanoic acid slightly decreased throughout the incubation but increased in the third spot. Octacosanol and free octacosanoic acids were also identified in plasma of monkeys orally administered with policosanol. In addition, plasma samples showed free saturated acids, palmitic acid being the most abundant, followed by oleic and mystiric acids. Unsaturated acids (oleic and palmitoleic) were also observed.

Conclusions
The present study demonstrates that octacosanoic acid is formed after incubation of fibroblast cultures with 3H-octacosanol and after oral dosing with policosanol to rats. In addition, we demonstrated that shortened saturated (myristic, palmitic and stearic) and unsaturated (oleic, palmitoleic) FA are also formed after oral dosing with policosanol to monkeys. The present results are consistent with the fact that octacosanol metabolism is linked to FA metabolism via β-oxidation, but further studies need to explore the occurrence of more metabolites proving such hypothesis.
 
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Mauritio

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Octacosanol 30% Policosanol 98%

This is the only bulk product I could find that makes it possible to consume it in dosages that are used in studies (500mg - a few grams)
It must a be a waxy substance similar to stearic acid ,judging by its carbon atoms .
Also it says its 98% policosanols.
 
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jb116

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I've been experimenting with the purebulk one for a week now. I have found that I don't get any stress response from hunger or not eating for a while. Pretty odd but in a good way I suppose. It helps to sleep through the night if somebody had a problem with that. I'm not saying this is 100% related but I am mentioning it and monitoring. So far this is what I'm observing.
 

Mauritio

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I've been experimenting with the purebulk one for a week now. I have found that I don't get any stress response from hunger or not eating for a while. Pretty odd but in a good way I suppose. It helps to sleep through the night if somebody had a problem with that. I'm not saying this is 100% related but I am mentioning it and monitoring. So far this is what I'm observing.
Wow! This sounds like improved liver health amd glycogen to me .
What dosage do you take?
 
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I've been experimenting with the purebulk one for a week now. I have found that I don't get any stress response from hunger or not eating for a while. Pretty odd but in a good way I suppose. It helps to sleep through the night if somebody had a problem with that. I'm not saying this is 100% related but I am mentioning it and monitoring. So far this is what I'm observing.

how much are you consuming?
 
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jb116

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I've been testing with minimum doses, nothing crazy - yet. 10mg first couple days and went to 20mg. I didn't at all expect this effect honestly. I wasn't looking for anything obvious so it's interesting.

@Mauritio nice, thanks...
What did you mean btw by it helps Parkinson we know what that means...?
 

Mauritio

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I've been testing with minimum doses, nothing crazy - yet. 10mg first couple days and went to 20mg. I didn't at all expect this effect honestly. I wasn't looking for anything obvious so it's interesting.

@Mauritio nice, thanks...
What did you mean btw by it helps Parkinson we know what that means...?
Wow but would this bulk supplement be only good to for lower doses or can you easily dose higher ?
How do you dose 10 mg ? Thought it was some kind of pallets...

I mean it has to lower serotonin and /or raise dopamin .
 
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I've been testing with minimum doses, nothing crazy - yet. 10mg first couple days and went to 20mg. I didn't at all expect this effect honestly. I wasn't looking for anything obvious so it's interesting.

@Mauritio nice, thanks...
What did you mean btw by it helps Parkinson we know what that means...?

thank you.
 
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jb116

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@ecstatichamster :handok:

@Mauritio
I don't see why one couldn't go higher as it's a fine powder. I have a scale so it allowed me to see and visualize 10mg, etc.
Ah, the serotonin/dopamine aspect, got it.

I really love to know what you guys experience with it.
 

Mauritio

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@ecstatichamster :handok:

@Mauritio
I don't see why one couldn't go higher as it's a fine powder. I have a scale so it allowed me to see and visualize 10mg, etc.
Ah, the serotonin/dopamine aspect, got it.

I really love to know what you guys experience with it.
Thanks, I'll order today .

Is there a measuring spoon or anything else to measure the dose in there ,when you dont have a mg scale ?
 
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jb116

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Thanks, I'll order today .

Is there a measuring spoon or anything else to measure the dose in there ,when you dont have a mg scale ?
There is not, but hang on and I'll take a pic for you of what 10mg essentially looks like...
 
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jb116

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Here you go, I know not the most accurate but hopefully it's somewhat helpful until you get a scale.

angle-penny.jpg scale.jpg straight-on-penny.jpg
 

Mauritio

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Here you go, I know not the most accurate but hopefully it's somewhat helpful until you get a scale.

View attachment 18543 View attachment 18544 View attachment 18545
Thanks a lot! I will try it that way . Dont know if it even has to be dosed accurately... since most animal studies use HEDs that are at least 50 times higher ,but I think I'll start as low as 10mg when you say you felt effects from that .
Do you notice a difference 10 vs 20mg,effects wise ?
 

Dave Clark

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The bulk option is still a lot cheaper and also has no other ingridients .
Yeah, most of my supplements are powder from Pure Bulk, but for a capsuled option, this is as about as cheap as it gets, plus no filler crap, and that is hard to find in inexpensive supplements.
 
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jb116

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Thanks a lot! I will try it that way . Dont know if it even has to be dosed accurately... since most animal studies use HEDs that are at least 50 times higher ,but I think I'll start as low as 10mg when you say you felt effects from that .
Do you notice a difference 10 vs 20mg,effects wise ?
I can't say if I perceptually notice any difference between 10 and 20, for now. If and when I go to like 40 or so just to experiment we'll see.
Yea one of the useful studies you posted about the stress reduction used a max of 400mg/kg which would be about 5,000mg HED. That is massive but since so far for only a week I am seeing these benefits perhaps with such low doses it may be a matter of them having simply skipped over useful, much lower doses as starting points. In my opinion, most things point to 10-20mg per day for humans, maybe 30mg and maybe if up to 30, split up in divided doses.

This is good to note from that same study:

"Scientific studies where octacosanol alone was used in humans are limited. Keller et al., studied
the use of 30 mg/day (10 mg each with 3 principle meals) for 4 weeks in human females and did not report any
adverse effect
. Most studies on humans used policosanol, with octacosanol as major constituent and suggested
a safer dose of 10–20 mg/day for humans31, 32. The dose used in this study is much higher compared to suggested
human dose, however, a much higher dose (500 mg/day) of policosanol continuously for 1-year was found to be

safe in rats."

By the way, my method of ingestion is to dissolve it in a small dose of Vit E solution, like TocoVit or AC grace, both of which I use (one or the other). I figured it is good to mimic the holistic package if you will we would normally have found in totally unrefined E.
 
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