The NoFap Thread: Get In Here!

[Constatine]

is this the reason why people escalate to harder and extreme categories due to densensitization over vanilla/softcore?

Yes they are pursuing novelty as the reward system has become desensitized. The worse thing is that it is not a case like boredom where one becomes desensitized to a certain stimulus, it effects the entire reward system regarding all stimuli. If one is into hardcore porn they are likely unsatisfied with any real life activity that is not extremely rewarding. Neuroscience of Internet Pornography Addiction: A Review and Update . Not too long a read, skip to section 3 for information about this topic. I think the worst effect is inhibition of emotions (not feeling anything).
Also porn increases dynorphin in brain reward regions which is pretty much an all around bad thing. Reduces dopamine production, increases physical pain, leads to addiction, causes depression, etc.

 

[bdawg]

They are approaching this from the wrong angle entirely. Exposure and overexposure to sexual stimuli increases the desire to have sex but in a way that is impulsive and induces anhedonia. Sex is very stimulating for the reward system but leads to dopamine receptor downregulation when overdone. This means that activities less stimulating than sex will be less appealing. Eventually sex or porn will also become less rewarding but everything else will be joyless thus it is the only thing that satisfies you. On top of this ejaculation decreases androgen receptors in the brain and increases estrogen receptors. This leads to hyper sexual impulsive behavior that further continues the negative cycle. In such a state one's sexual desire is at a all time high however their enjoyment of sex and everyday life is at an all time low. People are not addicted to porn because it lowers their sex drive, they are addicted because sex has a positive feedback loop.

My understanding of the estrogen/androgen downregulation argument was that the studies are based on 'sexual exhaustion' which involve repeated ejaculations and actual sex, not masturbation (not that there is a difference).

Realistically, most people are unlikely to fap 3 or 4 times in a row to get to that stage, so I'm not sure how relevant that is. Studies have also found general correlations of testosterone with sexual activity, except for that 7 day spike study.

The dopamine downregulation makes porn the same as any dopaminergic activity, sex, gambling, video games, nicotine, alcohol. social media etc and agreed it leads to anhedonia towards normal stimuli.

However, I feel with your libido, unless its raging, means that its hard to actually sustain a porn addiction, i doubt most people have this level of libido apart from teenagers. Im sure most people on this thread will forget about porn on vacation for example, and its only the minority that can actually sustain the loop. Porn isnt heroin, the tolerance doesnt escalate or escalate as quickly.

 

[ATP]

Can long term chronic masturbation to porn cause or contribute to mental illness? I know that's a broad question but I've never put any thought into it until now.

 

[Márk K]

I first found it in some old Books in Russian (my great grandfather was Russian But ended here in Serbia bdcause of crisis in Russia long ago) and there are some documentaries on Russian also ( i can post this If you understanding Russian or Serbian) And Victor Schauberger,Vernadsky, Nikola Tesla and others are very nice to explore. Ray mentioned Vernadsky and some Russian aproach in science in his book. There are 3 main life energies Fructigens(form all life with Oxygenes), Qualigens and Dynagens.I found Schauberger very important for understanding Ray Peat. Also it Is nice to read abot parapsyhology ...Behterev for example. WHAT IS LOVE? WHAT IS GROWTH And YOUTH? WHAT ARE OUR THOUGHTS And from WHERE THEY COME And HOW? I think Those things are one of the secrets of life that can hardly be explained in Human made laboratories. I know that In Russia they have instruments for measuring those energies in Human heart, BRAIN And whole body. But its "relatively" new research. They use Tesla And Schauberger ideas. And one think I dont like so much with Peat Is his practical aproach about hormone supplementation. Ideas are GREAT and Those hormone are for sure protect ove in many ways But I see it only as substances that can be produced in body in real life situations. I think everything Is Ok abot his ideas, food and life style aproach. Every action, movement, worse, picture THOUGHTS have their energy radiation or Vibration. Everything Is so interconnected that for me it Is to simplystic to just take some powders.

I also found that Every interaction with woman Is great stimulus for life. Man also take Qualigens and Dynages When have sex with woman he truly loves and she loves him of course.

I like this very much. Over Masturbation Is severe compulsive behavior. Sex Is now " competition". And Dave asked for Advices how to shut down Those compulsions . I think answer life in things i wrote here. And of course in realy finding yourself and educating yourself as much as possiblle in order to builda you INTeGRiTY which very stimulating and I think it Is key i think for finding RIGHT WOMAN .

great post, thanks for taking the time and writing this, I think you're right about this: it's rather a simplicistic approach to fixate on upregulating hormonal processes without taking into account the broader emotional (transpersonal) context that those internal processes may in fact be reflecting. Also I like how you connect "integrity" and sexuality. I cannot speak from experience yet but have a strong intuition that indeed the more aligned and integrated (or TRUE) I become as a man the feminine energy that presents itself as alluring to me is all the more 'healing' and rejuvenating for me, provided that I have the courage to relax into the truth of the situation and approach the person in question in the first place, of course

 

[Márk K]

I've noticed that emotions and memories are held within the tension of my body. When I've released the tension in certain parts, emotions come up.

great post, thanks. I've also found that curiously enough, as I've serendipitously discovered a tension in the right side of my hip (that has locked my body into a lopsided posture and gate for as long as I remember) and started to corrective stretch against the grain of it, I became more and more open emotionally too, in tandem. I do think it happens simultaneously, though. There is no real body mind divide there. While the biomechanical movement patterns were rebalancing the integration seemed to be happening at an emotional (spiritual) level too. In a way all this was (and still is) happening on its own accord, with me simply relaxing into these self-corrective processes just by being relatively "loose" and honest and "Self"-reliant: Rather than following external instructions I let my body dictate the (dynamic) stretchings I needed to do (I even limped sometimes when walking to reactivate muscles in my weaker foot). Rather than getting lost in interpersonal drama I let the still small voice tell me how in fact I contributed (enacted) all the drama I've been going through... etc. etc. All this is a matter of relaxation. When one relaxes enough and feels grounded they will be able to differentiate between an impulse that comes from inspiration and an impulse that comes from compulsion or desperation. Then the issue of refraining from masturbation, for example, becomes a moot point indeed. Fixating on doing things THE RIGHT WAY is only a symptom that there is still lots of unresolved tension held in the body.....

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

Another thing to try is tantric masturbation.

In tantra or some systems they view the sex energy as sacred. If you go into pretty deeply you will learn about kundalini and getting kundalini to rise up to your crown chakra aka your 33rd vertebrae.

So tantric masturbation is the act of masturbating without ejaculating. So one would basically just fap until almost orgasming and then stopping and letting the sensation die down and then do it again etc. It feels pretty damn good.

If you go this route, highly recommend coconut oil or some kind of lube to assist you on this pleasurable experience.

I may be wrong, but I think this can create a full body orgasm for men if done long enough.

It is hard to not bust, but once you learn how high you can take it then you can control it, and with that as viewed in tantra would mean one has control over their sexual energy.

There are videos on youtube which can explain it further indepth

 

[ecstatichamster]

Can long term chronic masturbation to porn cause or contribute to mental illness? I know that's a broad question but I've never put any thought into it until now.

yes in many men it does indeed. Many men find their depression and anxiety and other mental problems diminishes away when they stop.

 

[Constatine]

Another thing to try is tantric masturbation.

In tantra or some systems they view the sex energy as sacred. If you go into pretty deeply you will learn about kundalini and getting kundalini to rise up to your crown chakra aka your 33rd vertebrae.

So tantric masturbation is the act of masturbating without ejaculating. So one would basically just fap until almost orgasming and then stopping and letting the sensation die down and then do it again etc. It feels pretty damn good.

If you go this route, highly recommend coconut oil or some kind of lube to assist you on this pleasurable experience.

I may be wrong, but I think this can create a full body orgasm for men if done long enough.

It is hard to not bust, but once you learn how high you can take it then you can control it, and with that as viewed in tantra would mean one has control over their sexual energy.

There are videos on youtube which can explain it further indepth

To me this method sounds like it will still damage the dopamine system, though it would conserve energy compared to masturbation. It might even be worse than traditional masturbation as the prolactin increase during orgasm allows the brain to recover from the heightened dopaminergic activity. But then again there is a pretty large culture behind the method so there might be more to it.

 

[DaveFoster]

!

 

[ATP]

yes in many men it does indeed. Many men find their depression and anxiety and other mental problems diminishes away when they stop.

That is very interesting and something I will definitely have a think about.

 

[lvysaur]

We need to get Mike "if you fap you get the zap" Pence on this

 

[Waynish]

Reading this thread high is hilarious!!! I love you guys :P

 

[Waynish]

Another thing to try is tantric masturbation.

In tantra or some systems they view the sex energy as sacred. If you go into pretty deeply you will learn about kundalini and getting kundalini to rise up to your crown chakra aka your 33rd vertebrae.

So tantric masturbation is the act of masturbating without ejaculating. So one would basically just fap until almost orgasming and then stopping and letting the sensation die down and then do it again etc. It feels pretty damn good.

If you go this route, highly recommend coconut oil or some kind of lube to assist you on this pleasurable experience.

I may be wrong, but I think this can create a full body orgasm for men if done long enough.

It is hard to not bust, but once you learn how high you can take it then you can control it, and with that as viewed in tantra would mean one has control over their sexual energy.

There are videos on youtube which can explain it further indepth

Yes in various qigong practices you eventually just orgasm naturally without expelling anymore. You can when you want to though.

 

[Waynish]

I was totally agreeing with everything that was being written in this thread looking down on "going out and getting laid," but when I reflected on that for 2s I immediately thought, "damn you guys need to go out and get laid!"

 

[Constatine]

I was totally agreeing with everything that was being written in this thread looking down on "going out and getting laid," but when I reflected on that for 2s I immediately thought, "damn you guys need to go out and get laid!"

Lol

 

[Dessert_All_Day]

Yes they are pursuing novelty as the reward system has become desensitized. The worse thing is that it is not a case like boredom where one becomes desensitized to a certain stimulus, it effects the entire reward system regarding all stimuli. If one is into hardcore porn they are likely unsatisfied with any real life activity that is not extremely rewarding. Neuroscience of Internet Pornography Addiction: A Review and Update . Not too long a read, skip to section 3 for information about this topic. I think the worst effect is inhibition of emotions (not feeling anything).
Also porn increases dynorphin in brain reward regions which is pretty much an all around bad thing. Reduces dopamine production, increases physical pain, leads to addiction, causes depression, etc.

Seems like a serious case of correlation/causation conflation here. Some of us have masturbated for many years and never experienced any of the problems mentioned in this thread.

In fact, I would credit masturbation with keeping me sane and focused when I otherwise would've spent much of my youth manipulating women for sex, going to parties with lots of drinking and drugs and wasting countless otherwise productive hours just trying to get laid.

Masturbation is a great way to short circuit our evolutionary motivation system, which is "designed" not to make us happy/fulfilled in life, but rather to make us want to have sex with as many women as possible regardless of the costs to our long-term well-being.

Porn seems to enhance masturbation as well as sex with a partner, and only seems to be a problem for people who are already emotionally troubled and/or mentally unstable.

Occam's razor would seem to suggest that masturbation doesn't cause addiction/depression/physical pain/etc, but people who already are depressed and vulnerable to addictions will abuse masturbation and porn just like they'll abuse sex, drugs, video games, food, etc.

Now go have a good fap and enjoy yourselves

 

[Constatine]

Seems like a serious case of correlation/causation conflation here. Some of us have masturbated for many years and never experienced any of the problems mentioned in this thread.

In fact, I would credit masturbation with keeping me sane and focused when I otherwise would've spent much of my youth manipulating women for sex, going to parties with lots of drinking and drugs and wasting countless otherwise productive hours just trying to get laid.

Masturbation is a great way to short circuit our evolutionary motivation system, which is "designed" not to make us happy/fulfilled in life, but rather to make us want to have sex with as many women as possible regardless of the costs to our long-term well-being.

Porn seems to enhance masturbation as well as sex with a partner, and only seems to be a problem for people who are already emotionally troubled and/or mentally unstable.

Occam's razor would seem to suggest that masturbation doesn't cause addiction/depression/physical pain/etc, but people who already are depressed and vulnerable to addictions will abuse masturbation and porn just like they'll abuse sex, drugs, video games, food, etc.

Now go have a good fap and enjoy yourselves

The qualities of going out and trying to get laid are typically present in those who masturbate and watch porn. Those who do not tend to be interested in emotional connection above sex. Plus masturbation is terrible for your dopamine system and leads to some very estrogenic behavior. The rise in prolactin via orgasm is quite bad for you as well (though this of course happens during real sex as well). Having a great metabolism would certainly help one recover quicker from orgasm and remain somewhat emotionally sensitive but nevertheless the dopamine system and one's overall energy levels will certainly take a hit from masturbation. Estrogenic activity (as well as prolactin of course) is also increased from masturbation (probably due to the great energy demand). There is a reason the Nofap community is so large, no organism can thrive expending that much energy.
Might I add that one might as well do drugs instead of porn as it is essentially the same thing in all practical manners (though drugs don't waste energy like masturbation).

 

[lampofred]

The post-orgasm dip in energy is so bad and makes me feel so bad that I hate both sex and masturbation. I get lethargic/sleepy/sluggish - basically a super-low energy state. I honestly wish I could just wipe-out my sex drive (obviously without castrating myself). I want to be completely doped up (full of dopamine) as much as possible all the time, so anything that raises prolactin is a huge no-no.

 

[Constatine]

The post-orgasm dip in energy is so bad and makes me feel so bad that I hate both sex and masturbation. I honestly wish I could just wipe-out my sex drive (obviously without castrating myself). I want to be completely doped up (full of dopamine) as much as possible all the time, so anything that raises prolactin is a huge no-no.

Yeah energy is the body's currency. Anything that requires the body to expend energy has a universal effect on all bodily systems. In this case a negative one. I find that when I am sexually active I need double my normal amount of calories.

 

[Waynish]

I hate to say it, but if you don't feel healthier after sleeping with your girl, then you may not be that into her...