The Myth Of Male Power (must See!)

[Peatish Ninja]

If only we could see that the problem is more diverse than the systematic labels we neatly categorize them in.

 

[Emstar1892]

Men and women are different and they love each other for that reason.

The dedifferentiation of the sexes is a sign of a degenerating society.

So ancient Greece was one heck of a chimera!

 

[tobieagle]

So ancient Greece was one heck of a chimera!

What do you mean by that?

I don't know much about ancient greece. I guess it's important to be more specific about the time period you are talking about.

"ancient greece" could describe any situation in an over 1.000 year long timeperiod afaik.

 

[Emstar1892]

I'm citing 400-200BC as an example of a sexual paradigm that contradicts the supposed black-and-white dynamic you've assumed to precede us!

Sexual orientation was very much without rigid boundaries, if any.

And quite contrary to a 'degredation of society', this generation delivered logic, metaethics, metaphysics, encyclopedic natural sciences and more in abundance.

 

[tobieagle]

I'm citing 400-200BC as an example of a sexual paradigm that contradicts the supposed black-and-white dynamic you've assumed to precede us!

Sexual orientation was very much without rigid boundaries, if any.

And quite contrary to a 'degredation of society', this generation delivered logic, metaethics, metaphysics, encyclopedic natural sciences and more in abundance.

As I've said I haven't read much about it yet, so I have to take your word for it.

But I've never read for example that the greeks had mixed armies.

When it comes to philosophy and natural science, all of the great ones which get mentioned for example by western philosophers like Kant and Schopenhauer were men.

How was their family structure?

 

[Emstar1892]

As I've said I haven't read much about it yet, so I have to take your word for it.

But I've never read for example that the greeks had mixed armys.

When it comes to philosophy and natural science, all of the great ones which get mentioned for example by western philosophers like Kant and Schopenhauer were men.

How was their family structure?

Your original point was about sexual orientation - that women and men love each other because of some fundamental difference, which I dispute, and believe to be further disputed by paradigms that have gone before us.

Your second point was that the blurring boundaries of sexual orientation will lead to the degredation of society, which I also dispute, and again, think is disputed by paradigms that have gone before us.

Your above point is about gender roles and responsibilities, which is quite different. Indeed, the overwhelming majority of famous philosophers are men - in terms of the personal lives or family structures of those you named, Schopenhauer was bitter and lonely and wrote a few essays that were very critical of women. Kant was bitter and lonely and walked alone all day for leisure. Both were geniuses, but I'm not sure their personal dynamics would be relevant to that - what is your idea there?

 

[ATP]

Anyone who thinks that a boy and a girl are the same thing and gender doesn't exist and it is a construct of society, has a serious brain problem.

 

[tobieagle]

Your original point was about sexual orientation - that women and men love each other because of some fundamental difference, which I dispute, and believe to be further disputed by paradigms that have gone before us.

Your second point was that the blurring boundaries of sexual orientation will lead to the degredation of society, which I also dispute, and again, think is disputed by paradigms that have gone before us.

You are misquoting me.

The dedifferentiation of the sexes is a sign of a degenerating society.

With dedifferentiation of the sexes I mean that men and women become more asexual, or that there specific characteristics are becoming less pronounced.

If you think of a society as an organism like your body, you start to understand why many people are comparing this process to cancer.

 

[Emstar1892]

"Men and women are different and they love each other for that reason."

How would I correctly interpret that, other than as the point that heterosexual people are so because of a fundamental difference between men and women?

Which implies that you already have some assumptions about derivatives of sexual orientation, since a fundamental difference has yet to be established by science. If purely a genital difference, then other sexual orientations lack derivatives, which opens floodgates to prejudice. If a sentimental difference, this has been thrown out by so many reputable fields that i cant imagine a viable case for it (at least at present).

So what exactly did your quotation mean?

 

[Luann]

My two c: both men and women are dicked over by the patriarchy.

Women are viewed as precious and weak, men viewed as strong but disposable.

Respectfully, things seem the opposite at my place of work (restaurant). The men servers are grumpy and need coddled, often demanding respect in ineffective ways and complaining, but women servers are seen as more directly assertive and hardier. At the end of the day the manager's usually talking to a woman employee for advice or confiding in her.

 

[tobieagle]

"Men and women are different and they love each other for that reason."

How would I correctly interpret that, other than as the point that heterosexual people are so because of a fundamental difference between men and women?

Which implies that you already have some assumptions about derivatives of sexual orientation, since a fundamental difference has yet to be established by science. If purely a genital difference, then other sexual orientations lack derivatives, which opens floodgates to prejudice. If a sentimental difference, this has been thrown out by so many reputable fields that i cant imagine a viable case for it (at least at present).

So what exactly did your quotation mean?

I hope you are not trolling me.

Let's formulate it in a biological manner:

Our species happens to have two sexes, with different characteristic traits.
The individuals of one sex are attracted to the individuals of the other sex because of these traits or due to recognition of these traits.

 

[ATP]

This is as simple as it gets. Man is born with a penis, woman is born with a vagina. Penis is designed to go into vagina. That is not some social construct, it is the facts.

 

[Emstar1892]

I see. To each their own (or not, apparently). No longer inclined to contribute to this thread, but appreciate the engagement from y'all

 

[Pointless]

Ancient Greece had extremely strict gender roles. Most women were locked away in the home to do menial tasks like cooking and cleaning. Many wore full head coverings. Women that didn't marry off were usually prostitutes.

 

[Emstar1892]

Ancient Greece had extremely strict gender roles. Most women were locked away in the home to do menial tasks like cooking and cleaning. Many wore full head coverings. Women that didn't marry off were usually prostitutes.

I was talking about sexual orientation, not gender roles. But thanks for clarifying.

 

[tobieagle]

This is as simple as it gets. Man is born with a penis, woman is born with a vagina. Penis is designed to go into vagina. That is not some social construct, it is the facts.

We had a related incident in German parliament fairly recently, where our party "Die Grüne" made a proposal for the offical acceptance of 60 new genders.
The response was hilarious.

 

[Luann]

What a mouth work-out