The Key To Low Body-fat, Regardless Of Diet/Exercise?

[strawberry6977]

I am fairly new to Peating (started appx 4 months ago). Even prior, I have been off/on trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together to figure out "what is the key to low body-fat in people, regardless of diet or exercise - or even trying?" I know it isn't just one thing. Some factors are: gender, body type, metabolism, age, hormones, how well your body handles stress, etc. I'm even convinced it's personality type - naturally energetic folks seem to keep busy, keep moving, to where they naturally keep a higher metabolism.

What made me research to answer my ponderings are 2 things: 1st, I was skinny - too skinny (size 0-2) 5'1", 105-110 lbs, without ANY effort see my 6-pack abs, definition of my back muscle, etc...I would even go thru spurts of working out, then not...and I could eat ANYTHING I wanted to, although I had a reasonably healthy diet. All this until until I got pregnant @ age 30. Then my diet and cravings went to hell in a handbasket - I was hungry constantly and made the mistake of eating whatever I wanted. About a year after baby, I then put-forth effort, I was able to lose weight with a healthy diet and regular exercise. Then, I got pregnant again @ age 35, after which I havent been able to successfully keep the body-fat off. I was able to put on good muscle from working out, even more-so recently (I'm now 43 years old), but there's a stubborn layer of fat covering my abs and my hips/butt...it's so frustrating.

2nd form of thought I've been pondering is my husband. He has always eaten literally anything and loads of it (not even healthy) - pizza, pasta, breads, candies, ice-cream, cakes, fast-food, etc - does not gain an ounce of bodyfat. And he 41, stays muscular without even formally going to a gym - he just has lots of energy, has big biceps and 6-pack abs - I want to strangle him. haha I attributed it to him being a mesomorph with lots of testosterone. So, 3 years ago I went to a hormone doctor and started on testosterone and progesterone (since both according to my bloodwork levels were in the toilet). It helped my estrogen dominance, but I still struggle with shedding my bodyfat around my waist and hips/butt (everywhere else I'm skinny - my face, arms, legs). I even resorted to abdominal liposuction 2 years ago (after I tried HRT with no miracle success)...still didnt help.

I tried every diet, every exercise method, detox, etc. Then 4 months ago I found Ray Peat's eating/living method and I figured out (at least part of the issue) is I wrecked my metabolism and my digestion by trying all the various diets, even "healthy" ones. Peat's method of eating makes sense and I love it, I like not counting calories or stressing (hello Cortisol) over logging every piece of food for macros. No more cravings, I don't eat as much (snacking isn't as prevalent), etc. What is making me want to cry is the fact that I am bloating up in my stomach and hips more, I can barely fit in my pants - I've gotten to a point where I'm going to have to go buy bigger pants, and that I find is unacceptable. Yes, there are positive's in how I'm feeling and sleeping (and the breath of fresh-air on eating intuitively with no cravings or feelings of deprivation for once), but if I have to go buy bigger pants - that's where I draw the line. But I dont want to give up, especially since I've read many Posts throughout this Forum about stomach weight gain / bloating when beginning to eat Peat-style. Ever since I started Peating, I oddly have lost my passion to workout, it's odd. Perhaps it's my body healing, perhaps getting used to this way of eating, maybe both. I will force myself to workout here and there, but mainly I walk, stretch, do trigger point release, and do resistance training a few times a week. Last week I started reducing my fat intake, so I went from whole milk to 2% milk. I drink only A2 grassfed milk and eat raw grassfed cheese, grassfed unpasturized non-homogenic cottage cheese with mangos. I drink organic flash pasturized pulp-free not-from-concentrate OJ (always drank with collagen). On a rare occasion I'll eat some organic peppermint ice-cream (with only basic ingredients). I always eat my protein's with fruit, although lately I rarely eat muscle meat, but when I do it's a small portion of steak without the fat, or grassfed ground beef, or shredded chicken breast...sometimes potatoes, rice, or squash. Rarely homemade sourdough bread with a dash of olive oil and salt/pepper. Last week I had a hankering for mozzarella with tomatoes and olive oil. I also drink a shake before bed of basic ingredient grassfed casein with cacao and honey with fresh carrots, MCT/coconut oil, and honey. I take liver via capsules daily, along with other vitamins to fill any gaps. By and large I've lost my appetite, it's weird.

Back to my ponderings: I've been racking my brain this week trying to figure out the key or secret to how some people (including myself, once-upon-a-time) can literally eat what they want, even exercise only here and there - and still remain thin, skinny, low body-fat, etc..?!

Why is it so stinkin' hard to lose mid-section/hip bodyfat?! At this point since I've tried EVERYTHING it's driving me nuts trying to figure out! I mean, I know I'm now over 40 (although I know plenty of thin people over 40); but my hormone therapy that has been keeping my hormones in balance (supposedly), healthy eating (even Peat-style), and taking cortisol-reducing herbs along with breathing techniques and stretching, I sleep like a baby, even take digestive enzymes incase my body isn't liking all of the dairy. I also take supplements such as DIM (and Calcium D-Glucarate, which is surprisingly Peat-approved via a Podcast interview) to help block/detox estrogen, methylated B-complex, D3 & K2 with olive oil base, Vitamin E, Lysine, Butyrate (instead of what I used to take of probiotics), Cranberry extract, Vitamin C & citrus-peel extract, magnesium, potassium, and as I said the liver capsules. (I take the magnesium and potassium mainly because I'm on HTZ diuretic pill due to my hypertension I've had since I was 25 for no reason, it drains my potassium/mag levels) I drink electrolyte water to flush any toxins out, and I drink several coffee lattes with sugar/honey daily, of course OJ with collagen. So, a month ago I started taking liver detox pills due to thinking my liver was sluggish and packing on the pounds in my mid-section. Then I started taking my morning temp which is low @ 96.04-70, so I ordered dessicated thyroid to try. I also use a muscle roller on my "fat areas" to try and push the toxins/estrogen/PUFA out; I went for 2 sessions of manual lymphatic drainage massage over the last few weeks...which helped drain some water weight, God-willing some toxins/estrogen/PUFA stuck in my tissues. Now I've scheduled a colonic hydrotherapy session for Monday to see if I need to flush some endotoxins, better my digestion, and increase my nutrient absorption.

I know according to Peat (and others) it can take years to fix your metabolism, and some time to flush endotoxins and heal your liver/digestion to then lose this fat / bloating / water weight build-up, but I don't have that kind of time right now. I am patient (heck, I've been trying everything under the sun for 8 years now to find what works for my specific body), but as I said - I draw the line at having to buy new bigger pants! Any thoughts on my "pondering" about the habits/secrets/keys to those who can stay thin without even trying? And any help or ideas on how I can quickly shed some of this "Peat weight"?

 

[Geronimo]

High fruit/medium protein/low fat diet and weight training.
For fruit, I go to Costco and get the frozen stuff and blend it up alone or with green Peas. About 10 cups a day in a big thermos, when water is added.

 

[milkboi]

You eat a high fat, high carb diet right now. I ate that way when I first discovered Peat and I got fat eating that way. I see mainly 2 problems with it: 1) too appetizing, especially after eating a restricted diet, which will lead to overeating and 2) insulin resistance induced by the randle cycle.

So I'd go for a high protein (low/non fat dairy, lean meat, gelatin] and high carb [fruits and starches, doesn't really matter as long as you digest both of those well]. In the end it comes down to a calorie deficit if you want to lose weight, but cutting out fat will also make that easier because it's so calorie dense.

Thyroid could potentially also help you out, your low temps point to that. I'm not convinced desiccated thyroid is reliable (although there might be some effective products out there), I'd rather go straight for either synthetic T3 or a T3/T4 combo. You could probably get it prescribed by a doctor instead of getting it somewhere from the grey market.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Constant PPAR-delta activation by Retinoic acid might be worth a try. Supplementing Vit A to achieve it

 

[Recoen]

I am fairly new to Peating (started appx 4 months ago). Even prior, I have been off/on trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together to figure out "what is the key to low body-fat in people, regardless of diet or exercise - or even trying?" I know it isn't just one thing. Some factors are: gender, body type, metabolism, age, hormones, how well your body handles stress, etc. I'm even convinced it's personality type - naturally energetic folks seem to keep busy, keep moving, to where they naturally keep a higher metabolism.

What made me research to answer my ponderings are 2 things: 1st, I was skinny - too skinny (size 0-2) 5'1", 105-110 lbs, without ANY effort see my 6-pack abs, definition of my back muscle, etc...I would even go thru spurts of working out, then not...and I could eat ANYTHING I wanted to, although I had a reasonably healthy diet. All this until until I got pregnant @ age 30. Then my diet and cravings went to hell in a handbasket - I was hungry constantly and made the mistake of eating whatever I wanted. About a year after baby, I then put-forth effort, I was able to lose weight with a healthy diet and regular exercise. Then, I got pregnant again @ age 35, after which I havent been able to successfully keep the body-fat off. I was able to put on good muscle from working out, even more-so recently (I'm now 43 years old), but there's a stubborn layer of fat covering my abs and my hips/butt...it's so frustrating.

2nd form of thought I've been pondering is my husband. He has always eaten literally anything and loads of it (not even healthy) - pizza, pasta, breads, candies, ice-cream, cakes, fast-food, etc - does not gain an ounce of bodyfat. And he 41, stays muscular without even formally going to a gym - he just has lots of energy, has big biceps and 6-pack abs - I want to strangle him. haha I attributed it to him being a mesomorph with lots of testosterone. So, 3 years ago I went to a hormone doctor and started on testosterone and progesterone (since both according to my bloodwork levels were in the toilet). It helped my estrogen dominance, but I still struggle with shedding my bodyfat around my waist and hips/butt (everywhere else I'm skinny - my face, arms, legs). I even resorted to abdominal liposuction 2 years ago (after I tried HRT with no miracle success)...still didnt help.

I tried every diet, every exercise method, detox, etc. Then 4 months ago I found Ray Peat's eating/living method and I figured out (at least part of the issue) is I wrecked my metabolism and my digestion by trying all the various diets, even "healthy" ones. Peat's method of eating makes sense and I love it, I like not counting calories or stressing (hello Cortisol) over logging every piece of food for macros. No more cravings, I don't eat as much (snacking isn't as prevalent), etc. What is making me want to cry is the fact that I am bloating up in my stomach and hips more, I can barely fit in my pants - I've gotten to a point where I'm going to have to go buy bigger pants, and that I find is unacceptable. Yes, there are positive's in how I'm feeling and sleeping (and the breath of fresh-air on eating intuitively with no cravings or feelings of deprivation for once), but if I have to go buy bigger pants - that's where I draw the line. But I dont want to give up, especially since I've read many Posts throughout this Forum about stomach weight gain / bloating when beginning to eat Peat-style. Ever since I started Peating, I oddly have lost my passion to workout, it's odd. Perhaps it's my body healing, perhaps getting used to this way of eating, maybe both. I will force myself to workout here and there, but mainly I walk, stretch, do trigger point release, and do resistance training a few times a week. Last week I started reducing my fat intake, so I went from whole milk to 2% milk. I drink only A2 grassfed milk and eat raw grassfed cheese, grassfed unpasturized non-homogenic cottage cheese with mangos. I drink organic flash pasturized pulp-free not-from-concentrate OJ (always drank with collagen). On a rare occasion I'll eat some organic peppermint ice-cream (with only basic ingredients). I always eat my protein's with fruit, although lately I rarely eat muscle meat, but when I do it's a small portion of steak without the fat, or grassfed ground beef, or shredded chicken breast...sometimes potatoes, rice, or squash. Rarely homemade sourdough bread with a dash of olive oil and salt/pepper. Last week I had a hankering for mozzarella with tomatoes and olive oil. I also drink a shake before bed of basic ingredient grassfed casein with cacao and honey with fresh carrots, MCT/coconut oil, and honey. I take liver via capsules daily, along with other vitamins to fill any gaps. By and large I've lost my appetite, it's weird.

Back to my ponderings: I've been racking my brain this week trying to figure out the key or secret to how some people (including myself, once-upon-a-time) can literally eat what they want, even exercise only here and there - and still remain thin, skinny, low body-fat, etc..?!

Why is it so stinkin' hard to lose mid-section/hip bodyfat?! At this point since I've tried EVERYTHING it's driving me nuts trying to figure out! I mean, I know I'm now over 40 (although I know plenty of thin people over 40); but my hormone therapy that has been keeping my hormones in balance (supposedly), healthy eating (even Peat-style), and taking cortisol-reducing herbs along with breathing techniques and stretching, I sleep like a baby, even take digestive enzymes incase my body isn't liking all of the dairy. I also take supplements such as DIM (and Calcium D-Glucarate, which is surprisingly Peat-approved via a Podcast interview) to help block/detox estrogen, methylated B-complex, D3 & K2 with olive oil base, Vitamin E, Lysine, Butyrate (instead of what I used to take of probiotics), Cranberry extract, Vitamin C & citrus-peel extract, magnesium, potassium, and as I said the liver capsules. (I take the magnesium and potassium mainly because I'm on HTZ diuretic pill due to my hypertension I've had since I was 25 for no reason, it drains my potassium/mag levels) I drink electrolyte water to flush any toxins out, and I drink several coffee lattes with sugar/honey daily, of course OJ with collagen. So, a month ago I started taking liver detox pills due to thinking my liver was sluggish and packing on the pounds in my mid-section. Then I started taking my morning temp which is low @ 96.04-70, so I ordered dessicated thyroid to try. I also use a muscle roller on my "fat areas" to try and push the toxins/estrogen/PUFA out; I went for 2 sessions of manual lymphatic drainage massage over the last few weeks...which helped drain some water weight, God-willing some toxins/estrogen/PUFA stuck in my tissues. Now I've scheduled a colonic hydrotherapy session for Monday to see if I need to flush some endotoxins, better my digestion, and increase my nutrient absorption.

I know according to Peat (and others) it can take years to fix your metabolism, and some time to flush endotoxins and heal your liver/digestion to then lose this fat / bloating / water weight build-up, but I don't have that kind of time right now. I am patient (heck, I've been trying everything under the sun for 8 years now to find what works for my specific body), but as I said - I draw the line at having to buy new bigger pants! Any thoughts on my "pondering" about the habits/secrets/keys to those who can stay thin without even trying? And any help or ideas on how I can quickly shed some of this "Peat weight"?

There’s a chance you weren’t really healthy when you were younger. Do you remember what your temps were then? Even the sporadic ones when you had a check up? There seem to be two forms of hypothyroid- those who run on stress hormones and urinate out most of their organic acids (Krebs cycle) and those who put on a lot of weight (fat and water).
Are you on progesterone or a progestin?
I second looking at your thyroid more.

 

[strawberry6977]

High fruit/medium protein/low fat diet and weight training.
For fruit, I go to Costco and get the frozen stuff and blend it up alone or with green Peas. About 10 cups a day in a big thermos, when water is added.

Thanks. Are you suggesting I "up" my fruit intake significantly (like I feel like I'm constantly drinking fruit shakes or eating fruit), add protein with each serving of fruit, then make sure my dairy (milk, cottage cheese, slice of cheese) is low or non-fat?

You eat a high fat, high carb diet right now. I ate that way when I first discovered Peat and I got fat eating that way. I see mainly 2 problems with it: 1) too appetizing, especially after eating a restricted diet, which will lead to overeating and 2) insulin resistance induced by the randle cycle.

So I'd go for a high protein (low/non fat dairy, lean meat, gelatin] and high carb [fruits and starches, doesn't really matter as long as you digest both of those well]. In the end it comes down to a calorie deficit if you want to lose weight, but cutting out fat will also make that easier because it's so calorie dense.

Thyroid could potentially also help you out, your low temps point to that. I'm not convinced desiccated thyroid is reliable (although there might be some effective products out there), I'd rather go straight for either synthetic T3 or a T3/T4 combo. You could probably get it prescribed by a doctor instead of getting it somewhere from the grey market.

Since I already purchased the dessicated thyroid, I'll probably give that a try for a bottle (month) and see where my temps go. I see my hormone doctor next week (after my bloodwork I do on Monday), and I'll see if she will be on-board with prescribing me synthetic thyroid if the more natural route doesnt work. Sounds like as for diet, your suggestions are similar to Geronimo. I still am trying to wrap my brain around eating so much fruit (aka: sugar) to drop body-fat! haha I'm guessing fruit is more preferable over starches, as for trying to drop mid-section bloat/fat quickly?

There’s a chance you weren’t really healthy when you were younger. Do you remember what your temps were then? Even the sporadic ones when you had a check up? There seem to be two forms of hypothyroid- those who run on stress hormones and urinate out most of their organic acids (Krebs cycle) and those who put on a lot of weight (fat and water).
Are you on progesterone or a progestin?
I second looking at your thyroid more.

I am taking progesterone oil, 2x/day (morning & evening) 4 drops each time, 8 total daily. I wouldnt be surprised if I wasnt healthy when I was younger, regardless of being lean. There were spurts here and there where I got involved with a nutritionist and naturopath, mainly for detoxing and eating healthier, but it wasnt an on-going thing. Sadly I dont recall ever taking my temps regularly until I got into Peating. I do recall being self-diagnosed hypoglycemic (low blood sugar dips with shakes, irritability, brain-fog if I didnt eat regularly). Perhaps I was hypothyroid this whole time and manifested it differently throughout the years (like you said). Years ago, before I got on HRT, I saw an Endocrinologist to look at my bloodwork, my thyroid levels were "normal" and she dismissed me. I understand sadly many doctor's merely look at bloodwork and that's it. I'd love to know more about details on hypothyroid stuff...

 

[strawberry6977]

FWIW: As for thyroid, I will have to do more research. This Forum has opened my eyes on that subject where I formerly dismissed thyroid due to me not having textbook "symptoms". However, being pre-menopausal, and on HRT, I can imagine I wouldnt be textbook (that some symptoms are surprised due to these factors). I normally am not cold by nature (hands/feet freezing) nor overly fatigued, I normally run normal to warm (externally, anyway)...if that makes sense. So, that may be due to pseudo-hot flashes. It makes sense to take internal temps for this reason. It might be well of me to note that I have taken thyroid supplements before (even recently), but didnt seem to do anything, however, I'm guessing that's like putting a bandaid on the situation instead of doing something more pronounced to fix the root in a more detailed manner (dessicated thyroid or prescribed thyroid meds)... Thanks for your insight, help, advice. :)

 

[Recoen]

Thanks. Are you suggesting I "up" my fruit intake significantly (like I feel like I'm constantly drinking fruit shakes or eating fruit), add protein with each serving of fruit, then make sure my dairy (milk, cottage cheese, slice of cheese) is low or non-fat?


Since I already purchased the dessicated thyroid, I'll probably give that a try for a bottle (month) and see where my temps go. I see my hormone doctor next week (after my bloodwork I do on Monday), and I'll see if she will be on-board with prescribing me synthetic thyroid if the more natural route doesnt work. Sounds like as for diet, your suggestions are similar to Geronimo. I still am trying to wrap my brain around eating so much fruit (aka: sugar) to drop body-fat! haha I'm guessing fruit is more preferable over starches, as for trying to drop mid-section bloat/fat quickly?


I am taking progesterone oil, 2x/day (morning & evening) 4 drops each time, 8 total daily. I wouldnt be surprised if I wasnt healthy when I was younger, regardless of being lean. There were spurts here and there where I got involved with a nutritionist and naturopath, mainly for detoxing and eating healthier, but it wasnt an on-going thing. Sadly I dont recall ever taking my temps regularly until I got into Peating. I do recall being self-diagnosed hypoglycemic (low blood sugar dips with shakes, irritability, brain-fog if I didnt eat regularly). Perhaps I was hypothyroid this whole time and manifested it differently throughout the years (like you said). Years ago, before I got on HRT, I saw an Endocrinologist to look at my bloodwork, my thyroid levels were "normal" and she dismissed me. I understand sadly many doctor's merely look at bloodwork and that's it. I'd love to know more about details on hypothyroid stuff...

How many mg progesterone is 8 drops?

 

[strawberry6977]

How many mg progesterone is 8 drops?

According to the bottle, it says to take 3 drops up to 3 times per day, or whatever is recommended by a practitioner. 3mg per drop @ 8 drops per day = 24mg

 

[strawberry6977]

MIND BLOWN. Per the Thyroid conversation, it stimulated research today for me. Normally I am a research hound, so I'm frustrated it's taken until now for me to have this "ah ha" moment. Wilson's Syndrome (aka: Wilson's Temperature Syndrome)...it's often undiagnosed or misdiagnosed, mainly due to normal thyroid blood tests that come back, but also because of uneducated doctors that don't bother to dig further after that point. This might even help someone else... I will cut/paste excerpts from the educational website on this syndrome, but the treatment is "sustained release T3" taken every 12-hours starting with lower dose and working it's way up every few weeks to see what dosage works best, and it's a compounded prescription so you don't have to take "old school" T3 Cytomel every 3 hours. Wow.

What are the symptoms of WTS?
People with Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome (WTS) often struggle with symptoms of fatigue, depression, fluid retention, easy weight gain, headaches, dry skin, dry hair, PMS, irritability, low libido, insomnia, anxiety and many others. Their symptoms often come on or worsen under conditions of severe physical, mental, or emotional stress. Since the symptoms are classic for slow metabolism, their doctors sometimes order thyroid blood tests. When the tests come back normal their doctors might tell them that their thyroid is fine and the symptoms are all in their head, or that they’re just getting older, or need to learn to live with them. Unfortunately, these symptoms and the overwhelmed feeling of being at the end of your rope are hard to live with. In fact, some people say they’d rather be dead than go on feeling the way they do. Fortunately, WTS can be simple to correct and is often completely reversible. Here are a few patient success stories.

What causes WTS?
Under conditions of severe stress, (like childbirth, divorce, or the death of a loved one) the metabolism can slow down and the body temperature drops as a coping mechanism. After the stress has passed the metabolism and body temperature are supposed to come back up to normal, but sometimes they don’t and the body can get stuck in “conservation mode” and the debilitating symptoms can persist indefinitely (often worsening under subsequent stress).

The thyroid system is responsible for maintaining normal body temperature (normal metabolic rate). The whole purpose of the active thyroid hormone (T3) is to go into the nucleus of every cell of the body (except the few cells that don’t have DNA) and stimulate the rate at which DNA, the code of life, is transcribed. Literally, T3 determines how fast we live (our metabolic rate/body temperature).

Under conditions of stress, the cells of the body convert less T4 (the less active hormone supplied by the thyroid gland) into the active thyroid hormone, T3. Consequently, the metabolism slows and the body temperature drops and the symptoms appear.

How does WTS differ from Hypothyroidism?
There are many steps that lead from T4 being supplied by the thyroid gland (or thyroid medicine) and T3 having its effect in the nucleus of the cell. T4 is supplied by the thyroid gland, travels through the bloodstream, is transported into the cells, and is converted into T3. T3 is then transported into the nucleus and does its job. This is like a garden path with several gates along the way. Just because the first gate is unlocked doesn’t mean you will have no problem making it through the others.

Hypothyroidism is like the first gate on the path is locked. In hypothyroidism, not enough T4 is being supplied by the thyroid gland or thyroid medicine (TSH test is high). Consequently, there is no way for there to be adequate T3 stimulation in the nucleus. In Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome there is an adequate supply of thyroid hormone from the thyroid gland or medicine (THS test is normal) but there is some other problem along the path that is preventing adequate T3 stimulation in the nucleus. The result is the same in both cases: same slow metabolism, same low body temperature, same symptoms. And, the symptoms of severe WTS can be worse than the symptoms of mild hypothyroidism. You can order your own TSH test to see what yours is running.

WTS is roughly 10 times more common than hypothyroidism, even though most doctors were never taught about it in medical school. WTS is treated differently than hypothyroidism. Whereas hypothyroidism is often a life-long disorder, WTS is often completely reversible within a matter of months.

In 1920, Band-Aids were introduced. Back then, and even today, many people refer to all adhesive bandages as Band-Aids. But the makers of Band-Aids always refer to them as Band-Aid BRAND adhesive bandages because now there are other brands as well. Similarly, many people today refer to all symptoms of slow metabolism or low body temperature as “hypothyroid symptoms” because hypothyroidism was the only known cause of persistently low temperatures and slow metabolism. Today, we know there is a reversible cause, Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome.

Who’s at risk for WTS?
Like many other thyroid system conditions, WTS affects 4 times as many women than men. It seems to be more common in patients whose ancestors survived famine (Irish, American Indian, Scot, Welsh, Russian)(people that are part Irish and part American Indian seem especially susceptible).

How is WTS treated?
Sometimes people can recover on their own with healthy lifestyle changes such as good nutrition, diet, exercise, sleep, and stress reduction. Indeed, any measure that improves health in general, may help the body recover from WTS. Sometimes, a special T3 therapy protocol developed by Dr. Wilson is necessary to restore the body temperature to normal and eliminate the symptoms.

Sited: www.wilsonssyndrome.com/meet-dr-wilson​

 

[kYgirl]

MIND BLOWN. Per the Thyroid conversation, it stimulated research today for me. Normally I am a research hound, so I'm frustrated it's taken until now for me to have this "ah ha" moment. Wilson's Syndrome (aka: Wilson's Temperature Syndrome)...it's often undiagnosed or misdiagnosed, mainly due to normal thyroid blood tests that come back, but also because of uneducated doctors that don't bother to dig further after that point. This might even help someone else... I will cut/paste excerpts from the educational website on this syndrome, but the treatment is "sustained release T3" taken every 12-hours starting with lower dose and working it's way up every few weeks to see what dosage works best, and it's a compounded prescription so you don't have to take "old school" T3 Cytomel every 3 hours. Wow.

What are the symptoms of WTS?
People with Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome (WTS) often struggle with symptoms of fatigue, depression, fluid retention, easy weight gain, headaches, dry skin, dry hair, PMS, irritability, low libido, insomnia, anxiety and many others. Their symptoms often come on or worsen under conditions of severe physical, mental, or emotional stress. Since the symptoms are classic for slow metabolism, their doctors sometimes order thyroid blood tests. When the tests come back normal their doctors might tell them that their thyroid is fine and the symptoms are all in their head, or that they’re just getting older, or need to learn to live with them. Unfortunately, these symptoms and the overwhelmed feeling of being at the end of your rope are hard to live with. In fact, some people say they’d rather be dead than go on feeling the way they do. Fortunately, WTS can be simple to correct and is often completely reversible. Here are a few patient success stories.

What causes WTS?
Under conditions of severe stress, (like childbirth, divorce, or the death of a loved one) the metabolism can slow down and the body temperature drops as a coping mechanism. After the stress has passed the metabolism and body temperature are supposed to come back up to normal, but sometimes they don’t and the body can get stuck in “conservation mode” and the debilitating symptoms can persist indefinitely (often worsening under subsequent stress).

The thyroid system is responsible for maintaining normal body temperature (normal metabolic rate). The whole purpose of the active thyroid hormone (T3) is to go into the nucleus of every cell of the body (except the few cells that don’t have DNA) and stimulate the rate at which DNA, the code of life, is transcribed. Literally, T3 determines how fast we live (our metabolic rate/body temperature).

Under conditions of stress, the cells of the body convert less T4 (the less active hormone supplied by the thyroid gland) into the active thyroid hormone, T3. Consequently, the metabolism slows and the body temperature drops and the symptoms appear.

How does WTS differ from Hypothyroidism?
There are many steps that lead from T4 being supplied by the thyroid gland (or thyroid medicine) and T3 having its effect in the nucleus of the cell. T4 is supplied by the thyroid gland, travels through the bloodstream, is transported into the cells, and is converted into T3. T3 is then transported into the nucleus and does its job. This is like a garden path with several gates along the way. Just because the first gate is unlocked doesn’t mean you will have no problem making it through the others.

Hypothyroidism is like the first gate on the path is locked. In hypothyroidism, not enough T4 is being supplied by the thyroid gland or thyroid medicine (TSH test is high). Consequently, there is no way for there to be adequate T3 stimulation in the nucleus. In Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome there is an adequate supply of thyroid hormone from the thyroid gland or medicine (THS test is normal) but there is some other problem along the path that is preventing adequate T3 stimulation in the nucleus. The result is the same in both cases: same slow metabolism, same low body temperature, same symptoms. And, the symptoms of severe WTS can be worse than the symptoms of mild hypothyroidism. You can order your own TSH test to see what yours is running.

WTS is roughly 10 times more common than hypothyroidism, even though most doctors were never taught about it in medical school. WTS is treated differently than hypothyroidism. Whereas hypothyroidism is often a life-long disorder, WTS is often completely reversible within a matter of months.

In 1920, Band-Aids were introduced. Back then, and even today, many people refer to all adhesive bandages as Band-Aids. But the makers of Band-Aids always refer to them as Band-Aid BRAND adhesive bandages because now there are other brands as well. Similarly, many people today refer to all symptoms of slow metabolism or low body temperature as “hypothyroid symptoms” because hypothyroidism was the only known cause of persistently low temperatures and slow metabolism. Today, we know there is a reversible cause, Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome.

Who’s at risk for WTS?
Like many other thyroid system conditions, WTS affects 4 times as many women than men. It seems to be more common in patients whose ancestors survived famine (Irish, American Indian, Scot, Welsh, Russian)(people that are part Irish and part American Indian seem especially susceptible).

How is WTS treated?
Sometimes people can recover on their own with healthy lifestyle changes such as good nutrition, diet, exercise, sleep, and stress reduction. Indeed, any measure that improves health in general, may help the body recover from WTS. Sometimes, a special T3 therapy protocol developed by Dr. Wilson is necessary to restore the body temperature to normal and eliminate the symptoms.

Sited: www.wilsonssyndrome.com/meet-dr-wilson​

 

[kYgirl]

FWIW - over the years every time I upped my intake of fruits I would put on weight. Tried to go frutarian once but put on weight. Same thing happened with peating. I pretty much have given up fruit and oj except a pretty small amount daily, and started losing weight.

 

[strawberry6977]

FWIW - over the years every time I upped my intake of fruits I would put on weight. Tried to go frutarian once but put on weight. Same thing happened with peating. I pretty much have given up fruit and oj except a pretty small amount daily, and started losing weight.

Thanks, kYgirl! :) I was feeling the same way especially since Peating is new to me (I didnt want to go full-on with tons of sugar, even fructose/fruit). I have some mangos and a huge cup of OJ daily, some honey in my coffee and casein shake - and that's it - sometimes (rarely) some ice-cream. So, I dont believe this is due to fruit (at least I hope not, since I'm fairly conservative with it),

 

[mostlylurking]

MIND BLOWN. Per the Thyroid conversation, it stimulated research today for me. Normally I am a research hound, so I'm frustrated it's taken until now for me to have this "ah ha" moment. Wilson's Syndrome (aka: Wilson's Temperature Syndrome)...it's often undiagnosed or misdiagnosed, mainly due to normal thyroid blood tests that come back, but also because of uneducated doctors that don't bother to dig further after that point. This might even help someone else... I will cut/paste excerpts from the educational website on this syndrome, but the treatment is "sustained release T3" taken every 12-hours starting with lower dose and working it's way up every few weeks to see what dosage works best, and it's a compounded prescription so you don't have to take "old school" T3 Cytomel every 3 hours. Wow.

What are the symptoms of WTS?
People with Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome (WTS) often struggle with symptoms of fatigue, depression, fluid retention, easy weight gain, headaches, dry skin, dry hair, PMS, irritability, low libido, insomnia, anxiety and many others. Their symptoms often come on or worsen under conditions of severe physical, mental, or emotional stress. Since the symptoms are classic for slow metabolism, their doctors sometimes order thyroid blood tests. When the tests come back normal their doctors might tell them that their thyroid is fine and the symptoms are all in their head, or that they’re just getting older, or need to learn to live with them. Unfortunately, these symptoms and the overwhelmed feeling of being at the end of your rope are hard to live with. In fact, some people say they’d rather be dead than go on feeling the way they do. Fortunately, WTS can be simple to correct and is often completely reversible. Here are a few patient success stories.

What causes WTS?
Under conditions of severe stress, (like childbirth, divorce, or the death of a loved one) the metabolism can slow down and the body temperature drops as a coping mechanism. After the stress has passed the metabolism and body temperature are supposed to come back up to normal, but sometimes they don’t and the body can get stuck in “conservation mode” and the debilitating symptoms can persist indefinitely (often worsening under subsequent stress).

The thyroid system is responsible for maintaining normal body temperature (normal metabolic rate). The whole purpose of the active thyroid hormone (T3) is to go into the nucleus of every cell of the body (except the few cells that don’t have DNA) and stimulate the rate at which DNA, the code of life, is transcribed. Literally, T3 determines how fast we live (our metabolic rate/body temperature).

Under conditions of stress, the cells of the body convert less T4 (the less active hormone supplied by the thyroid gland) into the active thyroid hormone, T3. Consequently, the metabolism slows and the body temperature drops and the symptoms appear.

How does WTS differ from Hypothyroidism?
There are many steps that lead from T4 being supplied by the thyroid gland (or thyroid medicine) and T3 having its effect in the nucleus of the cell. T4 is supplied by the thyroid gland, travels through the bloodstream, is transported into the cells, and is converted into T3. T3 is then transported into the nucleus and does its job. This is like a garden path with several gates along the way. Just because the first gate is unlocked doesn’t mean you will have no problem making it through the others.

Hypothyroidism is like the first gate on the path is locked. In hypothyroidism, not enough T4 is being supplied by the thyroid gland or thyroid medicine (TSH test is high). Consequently, there is no way for there to be adequate T3 stimulation in the nucleus. In Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome there is an adequate supply of thyroid hormone from the thyroid gland or medicine (THS test is normal) but there is some other problem along the path that is preventing adequate T3 stimulation in the nucleus. The result is the same in both cases: same slow metabolism, same low body temperature, same symptoms. And, the symptoms of severe WTS can be worse than the symptoms of mild hypothyroidism. You can order your own TSH test to see what yours is running.

WTS is roughly 10 times more common than hypothyroidism, even though most doctors were never taught about it in medical school. WTS is treated differently than hypothyroidism. Whereas hypothyroidism is often a life-long disorder, WTS is often completely reversible within a matter of months.

In 1920, Band-Aids were introduced. Back then, and even today, many people refer to all adhesive bandages as Band-Aids. But the makers of Band-Aids always refer to them as Band-Aid BRAND adhesive bandages because now there are other brands as well. Similarly, many people today refer to all symptoms of slow metabolism or low body temperature as “hypothyroid symptoms” because hypothyroidism was the only known cause of persistently low temperatures and slow metabolism. Today, we know there is a reversible cause, Wilson’s Temperature Syndrome.

Who’s at risk for WTS?
Like many other thyroid system conditions, WTS affects 4 times as many women than men. It seems to be more common in patients whose ancestors survived famine (Irish, American Indian, Scot, Welsh, Russian)(people that are part Irish and part American Indian seem especially susceptible).

How is WTS treated?
Sometimes people can recover on their own with healthy lifestyle changes such as good nutrition, diet, exercise, sleep, and stress reduction. Indeed, any measure that improves health in general, may help the body recover from WTS. Sometimes, a special T3 therapy protocol developed by Dr. Wilson is necessary to restore the body temperature to normal and eliminate the symptoms.

Sited: www.wilsonssyndrome.com/meet-dr-wilson​

A few thoughts: It appears that Dr. Wilson is trying to reconcile the Medical Industrial Complex's dogma about hypothyroidism with reality. Please note That Dr. Wilson came up with this idea in the mid 1990's. The modern dogma about hypothyroidism is such a mess that it would be better to throw it out entirely and start over using Broda Barnes' books about hypothyroidism and hypoglycemia (here: Bookstore ) and the teachings of Ray Peat (see this link: Programmable Search Engine ).

Spend some time reading Dr. Peat's free papers online; you will learn a lot!

It's important to understand that T4 gets converted to T3 in the liver, not in all the cells per Dr. Wilson. If your liver isn't provided with the protein and sugar it needs to do the work then you will have a conversion problem. If you have estrogen lugging down your liver function you will have a conversion problem. If you consume polyunsaturated fatty acids you will have a conversion problem. A healthy thyroid puts out 4 parts T4 and 1 part T3. This T3 from the thyroid gives the liver metabolic energy so that it can begin to convert T4 to T3. If no T3 is available, the liver can't start making it. The body cannot use T4 for energy unless it is converted to T3.

For a really depressing read, wander over to this site: Endocrine.org | Endocrine Society . A potential new primary care physician I was considering said that he strictly follows only this site's information (the Medical Industrial Complex's dogma, available in 3X5 pocket cards for a fee). In other words, no T3 ever, and he would have never even given me any T4 because my TSH is low (.021 before any treatment). The nurse who took my information sucked in her breath in obvious horror when I told her I take 180 mg (= 3 grains) of desiccated thyroid daily. Judging by her reaction, I may as well have told her I was hooked on heroin and crack cocaine.

I've been on medication for over 40 years, 15 years on T4 alone. It almost finished me off because I am strongly estrogen dominant. A new doctor finally let me have some desiccated thyroid and I got my life back. Unfortunately, this kind soul was noticed by the medical industrial complex gestapo and his license was revoked.

 

[JanW55]

To @strawberry6977, everything @mostlylurking just said, hooray! as far as Broda Barnes and Peat info and I would add in check out STTM Stop the Thyroid Madness website AND Tom Brimeyer Forefront Revolution website and blogs (Brimeyer mentions Peat's work quite a bit and discusses the ways to optimize one's thyroid pathways).

Although I have reservations about it personally, I can't totally categorize the WTS info unfavorably since my husband was literally saved from RT3 meltdown by a very gifted and unusual 'natural health minded' MD / (trained and board certified also as a psychiatrist) that he went to when we first met. This particular MD had just heard about WTS and thought it might apply to my husband's metabolic symptoms and medical history. NOTE: This doctor did NOT take insurance and therefore was NOT beholden to 'guidelines' from any corporate entity or mindset dictated by such.

Compounded T3 was prescribed after daily basal temperature readings were done for awhile revealing morning temps in the 95's Fahrenheit. The T3 was a miracle and jump-started his metabolism, and the MD kept him on it for awhile then said he was good to go on without it.

I have been through a lot of what @strawberry6977 is mentioning, so to spare this comment from going overlong and too much information, just search around on what I've been putting out here since my own T4-Rx-meltdown starting in February 2016.

It's taken 4 and a half years so far to get back to enough energy to walk around the block for 40 minutes at a snail's pace (former jogger 6 miles a day, 6 days a week in my earlier years) and the brain fog is diminishing and so is the cortisol-tummy bloated look, but anyhow I owe it all to Tom Brimeyer really who pointed me to Peat's work, the food to eat, the supplements to pare down to / emphasize, the calming down, the whole thing.

Above all, based on your comments about synthetic T4 above, DON'T DO IT.

I would have been MUCH BETTER OFF NOT GOING TO "Insurance-Taking MD's" or TAKING THEIR Prescribed Medical Solutions!

Best of luck, much success in your quest for finding your own health pathways!

By the way still working at 65.25 years old and job involves helping expose, re-educate, and if necessary prosecute nefarious providers, so it's very rewarding in that aspect!

 

[MitchMitchell]

I hope that one day people realize that the key to good health is doing whatever you want and enjoy, have fun when eating, while being reasonably active so that calories are kept in balance. Instead of force feeding yourself sticking to what some cult deemed to be good healthy foods or safe macros or whatever. It’s always a lot of fun to read neurotic nutrition-wannabe-experts who are baffled that people that DGAF have better hair, mood, libido, energy.... “But they eat all that cholesterol - animal fat - PUFA - starch - sugar - insert low quality studies on the latest fad diet’s bogeyman .....!”.

Time to give less f*cks...

 

[pauljacob]

You drink several Lattes a day. Well:
Some 16-ounce Latte contains 40 grams of sugar. That's 2.84 tablespoons (not teaspoons, but tablespoons), which is on par with eating two Twinkies. That's a lot of sugar to be slurping down, even if you DO consider your latte to be a dessert rather than a drink.
How Much Sugar Is in Your Starbucks Drunk?

Unless you get your honey directly from a beehive, all honey sold anywhere is 50% High Fructose Corn Syrup. I mentioned in another post that the FDA permits honey with up to 50% HFCS to be considered pure honey. Therefore and thereby:
HFCS and sugar have been shown to drive inflammation, which is associated with an increased risk of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. In addition to inflammation, excess fructose may increase harmful substances called advanced glycation end products (AGEs), which may harm your cells.
6 Reasons Why High-Fructose Corn Syrup Is Bad for You

Also HCTZ in your BP med increases blood sugar.
High Blood Sugar? It Could Be a Side Effect of These Medications - GoodRx.

It is possible that hydrochlorothiazide increases the production of glucose from the liver, and because beta-blockers limit the absorption of glucose into cells, the use of these medicines in tandem can raise glucose levels significantly enough to cause diabetes.
What is the Connection Between High Blood Sugar and High Blood Pressure? | Everyday Health

Also research HCTZ's role in high Cortisol, which leads to high blood sugar, among other things.

 

[Recoen]

A few thoughts: It appears that Dr. Wilson is trying to reconcile the Medical Industrial Complex's dogma about hypothyroidism with reality. Please note That Dr. Wilson came up with this idea in the mid 1990's. The modern dogma about hypothyroidism is such a mess that it would be better to throw it out entirely and start over using Broda Barnes' books about hypothyroidism and hypoglycemia (here: Bookstore ) and the teachings of Ray Peat (see this link: Programmable Search Engine ).

Spend some time reading Dr. Peat's free papers online; you will learn a lot!

It's important to understand that T4 gets converted to T3 in the liver, not in all the cells per Dr. Wilson. If your liver isn't provided with the protein and sugar it needs to do the work then you will have a conversion problem. If you have estrogen lugging down your liver function you will have a conversion problem. If you consume polyunsaturated fatty acids you will have a conversion problem. A healthy thyroid puts out 4 parts T4 and 1 part T3. This T3 from the thyroid gives the liver metabolic energy so that it can begin to convert T4 to T3. If no T3 is available, the liver can't start making it. The body cannot use T4 for energy unless it is converted to T3.

For a really depressing read, wander over to this site: Endocrine.org | Endocrine Society . A potential new primary care physician I was considering said that he strictly follows only this site's information (the Medical Industrial Complex's dogma, available in 3X5 pocket cards for a fee). In other words, no T3 ever, and he would have never even given me any T4 because my TSH is low (.021 before any treatment). The nurse who took my information sucked in her breath in obvious horror when I told her I take 180 mg (= 3 grains) of desiccated thyroid daily. Judging by her reaction, I may as well have told her I was hooked on heroin and crack cocaine.

I've been on medication for over 40 years, 15 years on T4 alone. It almost finished me off because I am strongly estrogen dominant. A new doctor finally let me have some desiccated thyroid and I got my life back. Unfortunately, this kind soul was noticed by the medical industrial complex gestapo and his license was revoked.

Great post!

Will you share what you’re doing for your estrogen dominance please?

 

[strawberry6977]

A few thoughts: It appears that Dr. Wilson is trying to reconcile the Medical Industrial Complex's dogma about hypothyroidism with reality. Please note That Dr. Wilson came up with this idea in the mid 1990's. The modern dogma about hypothyroidism is such a mess that it would be better to throw it out entirely and start over using Broda Barnes' books about hypothyroidism and hypoglycemia (here: Bookstore ) and the teachings of Ray Peat (see this link: Programmable Search Engine ).

Spend some time reading Dr. Peat's free papers online; you will learn a lot!

It's important to understand that T4 gets converted to T3 in the liver, not in all the cells per Dr. Wilson. If your liver isn't provided with the protein and sugar it needs to do the work then you will have a conversion problem. If you have estrogen lugging down your liver function you will have a conversion problem. If you consume polyunsaturated fatty acids you will have a conversion problem. A healthy thyroid puts out 4 parts T4 and 1 part T3. This T3 from the thyroid gives the liver metabolic energy so that it can begin to convert T4 to T3. If no T3 is available, the liver can't start making it. The body cannot use T4 for energy unless it is converted to T3.

For a really depressing read, wander over to this site: Endocrine.org | Endocrine Society . A potential new primary care physician I was considering said that he strictly follows only this site's information (the Medical Industrial Complex's dogma, available in 3X5 pocket cards for a fee). In other words, no T3 ever, and he would have never even given me any T4 because my TSH is low (.021 before any treatment). The nurse who took my information sucked in her breath in obvious horror when I told her I take 180 mg (= 3 grains) of desiccated thyroid daily. Judging by her reaction, I may as well have told her I was hooked on heroin and crack cocaine.

I've been on medication for over 40 years, 15 years on T4 alone. It almost finished me off because I am strongly estrogen dominant. A new doctor finally let me have some desiccated thyroid and I got my life back. Unfortunately, this kind soul was noticed by the medical industrial complex gestapo and his license was revoked.

Thank you!!! It is so great having others from different health walks, education, research, etc give me help and feedback! I have spent lots of time reading Dr Peats work, lurked around on this Forum for many months reading various topics as well. I am still wet behind the ears when it comes to Thyroid. As I said, about 7 years ago years ago I went to an Endocrinologist and had "normal labs", so she dismissed me to another doctor to find out what was going on with me - that doctor then ran tons of tests and finally advised me as having Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (aka: psychosomatic = anti-depressants, which I didnt want to take!) From then on, I had moved on to other things because I had "normal labs" and labeled as "nothing is truly wrong with me". A few months ago I started taking thyroid herbs and iodine, just to make sure I had all the proper levels - regardless of blood tests...and nothing really improved. I am happy I found Dr Peat advises for people to take their temperatures, that is a step that has started me to take another look at my Thyroid (regardless of blood-work). I think it's interesting to note Dr Wilson's work as well, since it has help people (oddly I fit the majority of the symptoms as well as of Irish AND American Indian decent - of which survived famines). I figure it can't hurt to try the sustained-release T3 meds to see if it is "eureka" for me. I ordered the Dessicated Bovine Thyroid, I wont start it yet until I get my labs drawn tomorrow (for my annual with my hormone doctor). I'm wondering now (with your appreciated reply) whether or not I should try a bottle of the dessicated thyroid first, then try the T3 (I imagine it'll take some time for my doctor to figure out a compound prescription anyway). Or just wait and go straight for the T3 (we all assume prescriptions tend to be more direct and more powerful, although in some situations it isnt always the case).

 

[strawberry6977]

To @strawberry6977, everything @mostlylurking just said, hooray! as far as Broda Barnes and Peat info and I would add in check out STTM Stop the Thyroid Madness website AND Tom Brimeyer Forefront Revolution website and blogs (Brimeyer mentions Peat's work quite a bit and discusses the ways to optimize one's thyroid pathways).

Although I have reservations about it personally, I can't totally categorize the WTS info unfavorably since my husband was literally saved from RT3 meltdown by a very gifted and unusual 'natural health minded' MD / (trained and board certified also as a psychiatrist) that he went to when we first met. This particular MD had just heard about WTS and thought it might apply to my husband's metabolic symptoms and medical history. NOTE: This doctor did NOT take insurance and therefore was NOT beholden to 'guidelines' from any corporate entity or mindset dictated by such.

Compounded T3 was prescribed after daily basal temperature readings were done for awhile revealing morning temps in the 95's Fahrenheit. The T3 was a miracle and jump-started his metabolism, and the MD kept him on it for awhile then said he was good to go on without it.

I have been through a lot of what @strawberry6977 is mentioning, so to spare this comment from going overlong and too much information, just search around on what I've been putting out here since my own T4-Rx-meltdown starting in February 2016.

It's taken 4 and a half years so far to get back to enough energy to walk around the block for 40 minutes at a snail's pace (former jogger 6 miles a day, 6 days a week in my earlier years) and the brain fog is diminishing and so is the cortisol-tummy bloated look, but anyhow I owe it all to Tom Brimeyer really who pointed me to Peat's work, the food to eat, the supplements to pare down to / emphasize, the calming down, the whole thing.

Above all, based on your comments about synthetic T4 above, DON'T DO IT.

I would have been MUCH BETTER OFF NOT GOING TO "Insurance-Taking MD's" or TAKING THEIR Prescribed Medical Solutions!

Best of luck, much success in your quest for finding your own health pathways!

By the way still working at 65.25 years old and job involves helping expose, re-educate, and if necessary prosecute nefarious providers, so it's very rewarding in that aspect!

Jan, thank you soooo much for your input, advice, and personal stories! It is so wonderful seeing a personal testimony in relation to the WTS! Over the last few days I've skimmed thru STTM website, but will continue to look thru it. After my research this weekend, I will not be taking T4 meds since I dont have (IMO) traditional Hypothyroidism. Even taking dessicated bovine thyroid (according to STTM website) has a mix of T4 and T3 (naturally so, since it's the whole thyroid one is ingesting) - so I'm hoping I'd get enough of the T3 to turn my symptoms around...?