The Key To Controlling Bacterial Growth Is Nitrogen

somuch4food

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Low carb is not the way to go for a healthy gut flora... Eating just enough and not overdoing proteins seem to be key for a healthy gut microbiome.

Besides proteins what can drive Nitrogen up during digestion?

Eating less protein may help curb gut bacteria’s growth


"Humans and other animals may have a way to control the growth of gut microbes: Eat less protein.

That’s because protein contains nitrogen. And, it turns out, the amount of nitrogen in the diet of mice governed the growth of bacteria in the animals’ large intestine, researchers report October 29 in Nature Microbiology. The finding may help researchers learn how to manipulate the types and amounts of people’s gut bacteria, which can contribute to health and disease."

"A separate set of experiments revealed how bacteria were getting nitrogen if not directly from food. Some bacteria in the gut (particularly ones belonging to the Bacteroidetes phylum) ate mucus secreted by the mice’s intestines to get nitrogen. In turn, those bacteria converted the mucus into other nitrogen-containing chemicals other gut bacteria could eat. The result suggests that hosts may be able to control which microbes grow in the gut by regulating the amount of nitrogen in mucus. Eating foods with low protein content is one way to do that.

What’s more, antibiotics that lowered the amount of bacteria in the gut led mice to secrete less mucus. The animals seemed to keep the extra nitrogen that wasn’t going to feed gut microbes for themselves, allowing the rodents to grow bigger. That finding could help explain why antibiotics promote growth in farm animals."

Nitrogen holds the key to healthy gut bacteria

“What we have seen is that basically when you eat too much, in particular when you eat too much of protein, what happens is that you encourage ‘weeds’.

[...] a high carbohydrate and low protein diet promoted a healthy relationship between the bacteria in the gut and the host animal."
 

Ableton

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eating just enough is good for my gut and gets rid of white tongue. but it's not good for my thyroid lol.
This has been the ongoing battle for me. Eating a lot = problems. Not eating a lot = problems.
I feel the best after a phase of eating a lot and then fasting, but that does not last ofc. Judging from my tongue bacteria and endotoxin play a big role there.
High protein is a problem for my gut, but I cannot definitely make the link to bacteria here...
 
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somuch4food

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@Amazoniac Thanks for this interesting paper and for reminding me that I posted this!

I'm currently experimenting with different fibers to try to increase butyrate producing bacteria as per what Nathan Hatch mentions in his book. I'm upping apples and potatoes since pectin and tubers promote butyrate according to him.

Phenolic compounds are mentioned as a bacteria byproduct and I recently identified Phenols as problematic for me.
 
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somuch4food

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From Vegetables, etc.—Who Defines Food?:

The toxins of plants include phenols, tannins, lectins/agglutinins, and trypsin-inhibitors, besides innumerable more specific metabolic inhibitors, including “anti-vitamins.”

I seem to have a hard time especially with the bolded ones, as well as salicylic acid and oxalic acid.

In fact, the protein value of grain is negligible, mainly because seeds contain their protein in a storage form, that is extremely rich in nitrogen, but poor in essential amino acids. Special preparation is needed to reduce the toxicity of seeds, and in the case of beans, these methods are never very satisfactory.

No wonder the grain-based guidance from government is failing.

:rightagain2
 
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Ray might be right on plant protein but he still pushes numbers that are too high, 100-150g as a blanket statement.

the RDA is very solid and evidence of “higher than RDA for athletes” is severely limited by the poor quality of material and methods used in those studies, plus a strong pro-protein bias of course.

not a single supplement company wants to spend money on a study only to hear that 10% of macros is good enough for anabolism (micros matter much more)
 
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From Vegetables, etc.—Who Defines Food?:



I seem to have a hard time especially with the bolded ones, as well as salicylic acid and oxalic acid.



No wonder the grain-based guidance from government is failing.

:rightagain2

You would lump salicylic acid together with lectins, trypsin inhibitors, and oxalates? Consider that the intake of salicylate from food is anywhere from 10 times to 1000 times less than what people on this forum get from aspirin.

Salicylic acid: a link between aspirin, diet and the prevention of colorectal cancer
 
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somuch4food

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You would lump salicylic acid together with lectins, trypsin inhibitors, and oxalates? Consider that the intake of salicylate from food is anywhere from 10 times to 1000 times less than what people on this forum get from aspirin.

Salicylic acid: a link between aspirin, diet and the prevention of colorectal cancer

Unfortunately, I have to. It has been linked to behavorial issues in children and seems to affect my child. From what I've read, it stems from faulty enzymes in the liver. I'm trying to find ways around it, but I have to limit high salicylates food at the moment.

Ray does mention that plant compounds have dose dependent benefits and it could be that some people have lower tolerance for some of them because of deficiencies, genetics or gut issues.
 

Vins7

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[QUOTE = "GreekDemiGod, post: 508963, miembro: 10546"] Hecho.
Imagine ser un ectomorfo, que necesita comer 3.5k -4k calorías al día y tener problemas intestinales [/ CITA]
Solo mi
Fact.
Imagine being an ectomorph, needing to eat 3.5k -4k calories daily and having gut issues
Just my case.
When I have been with good energy and mood is when I eat a lot, more than my hunger, and my bloating and digestión it's not good in that point...
 
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somuch4food

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@somuch4food Any updates? Did you go low protein or increased butyrates to counter excess nitrogen?
I did not commit to lower proteins until recently. I was looking into salicylates, oxalates and histamine. Since I had to cut many plant foods, I tried using more animal products, but that did not go too well.

Cutting out salicylates does wonder to my brain health and reducing meat does seem to help from what I've gathered recently, but it might be the quality of the animal products I get at the supermarket.

I've had recent success with inulin fiber. 1/4 tsp a day helps reduce SIBO according to Nemechek. Oats also work very well for gut motility in my case.
 

skittles

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Am I the only one who feels way worse on low protein + high carb? I've tried a million times to make it work, but I always end up going back to pretty high protein (150g+) and pretty moderate carbs (150-200g maybe), and feeling way better.

I feel like protein is absolutely what my body is asking me for, and I have a bit of sugar to balance it out, the occasional starch if I'm hungry for it. On particularly active days, I crave more carbs, so I eat more carbs. But I really seem to feel best if I keep my protein relatively high.
 

Andy316

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Am I the only one who feels way worse on low protein + high carb? I've tried a million times to make it work, but I always end up going back to pretty high protein (150g+) and pretty moderate carbs (150-200g maybe), and feeling way better.

I feel like protein is absolutely what my body is asking me for, and I have a bit of sugar to balance it out, the occasional starch if I'm hungry for it. On particularly active days, I crave more carbs, so I eat more carbs. But I really seem to feel best if I keep my protein relatively high.
Same, only veggie carb meal never satiates me. But a meal with high carb, high protein, low fat = Heaven.

Meat (especially Beef, Lamb) already has pre-metabolized vitamins for us (VitA, Iron, b12 etc) that can be easily digested.

However too much of a good thing can be bad so wondering if one should limit protein to small portions (2 oz per meal) to avoid nitrogen excess.
 

Andy316

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I did not commit to lower proteins until recently. I was looking into salicylates, oxalates and histamine. Since I had to cut many plant foods, I tried using more animal products, but that did not go too well.

Cutting out salicylates does wonder to my brain health and reducing meat does seem to help from what I've gathered recently, but it might be the quality of the animal products I get at the supermarket.

I've had recent success with inulin fiber. 1/4 tsp a day helps reduce SIBO according to Nemechek. Oats also work very well for gut motility in my case.
@somuch4food how has your experience been with Inulin? Is it ok for someone with high histamine and SIBO to take inulin. I see a brand of stevia contains inulin here so may try that since I have problems with fructose in sugar.
 
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somuch4food

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@somuch4food how has your experience been with Inulin? Is it ok for someone with high histamine and SIBO to take inulin. I see a brand of stevia contains inulin here so may try that since I have problems with fructose in sugar.
It's doing some good honestly and I seem to have histamine issues. My youngest is 20 months old (histamine and digestive issues) and it has helped him the most. I'm following the Nemechek dosage though. You start at 1/8 of a tsp and increase until you notice symptom relief. I'm currently at 1/4 tsp and it's spot on for my youngest. I think I need to increase dosage for myself though.
 

Andy316

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It's doing some good honestly and I seem to have histamine issues. My youngest is 20 months old (histamine and digestive issues) and it has helped him the most. I'm following the Nemechek dosage though. You start at 1/8 of a tsp and increase until you notice symptom relief. I'm currently at 1/4 tsp and it's spot on for my youngest. I think I need to increase dosage for myself though.
Thank you. What improvements do you notice with inulin? I understand Nemechek recommends inulin for Autism (Im mildly autistic myself)
 
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somuch4food

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Thank you. What improvements do you notice with inulin? I understand Nemechek recommends inulin for Autism (Im mildly autistic myself)
Its purpose is to treat SIBO which will reduce propionic acid production in the gut and allow the veil created by propionic acid to be removed. The patient then becomes more aware of its surroundings. One key point on this is better eye contact. He does say it's not effective on adults, but it might mainly apply to the severe cases he's used to see.
 
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals

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