The "incel" phenomenon is likely a deliberate government policy/psyop

mt_dreams

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a easy way to group both the incel phenomenon, as well as all the gender & sexuality fluidity is to consider 'the beautiful ones' outlook that seems to come about from easy times. from the experiments from half a century ago, when u take care of food & shelter etc, as well as remove predators, this just seems to develop. it's not a personal choice per say, but a macro percentage of the population that end up falling into these spectrums. You can theoretically force yourself out of any of these paths assuming you believe in free will & choice.
 

tankasnowgod

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a easy way to group both the incel phenomenon, as well as all the gender & sexuality fluidity is to consider 'the beautiful ones' outlook that seems to come about from easy times. from the experiments from half a century ago, when u take care of food & shelter etc, as well as remove predators, this just seems to develop. it's not a personal choice per say, but a macro percentage of the population that end up falling into these spectrums. You can theoretically force yourself out of any of these paths assuming you believe in free will & choice.
Easy times? What rubbish.

Times aren't "easy," and haven't been for decades (maybe centuries). Every country is in massive debt, every state in the US is also in massive debt, as are pretty much all companies, and most people. No one "owns" a house, they either rent or own a mortgage. Most people don't have real assets, and don't keep any savings in "real" money, that being gold and silver (or some other equivalent). They instead confuse debt or money of account as "money," and keep what little they have in that (usually relying on third parties). Predators haven't been "removed," they have just become more sophisticated and hidden.

And who designed these "mouse uptopias" anyway? I'll give you a hint..... it wasn't a mouse.


What does utopia look like for mice? According to a researcher who did most of his work in the 1950s through1970s, it might include limitless food (of course!), multiple levels and secluded little rodent condos. These were all part of John Calhoun’s experiments to study the effects of population density on behavior. But what looked like rat utopias [looked to who?] and mouse paradises at first quickly spiraled into out-of-control overcrowding, eventual population collapse and seemingly sinister behavior patterns.

Hmmm. Even the last line of that intro paragraph, it doesn't sound like much of a "utopia." Sounds more like a horror movie. One conclusion could be that "easy times" lead to hard times. Another conclusion could be that either humans in general, or John Calhoun in particular, absolutely suck at designing a good environment for mice and rats to live in. Or, that rats and mice prefer real world freedom over human designed captivity and forced benefits (after all, if they didn't like the food and shelter, how could the rats or mice opt out of the experiment?)

I tend to think the later two conclusions are more accurate than the first.
 

tankasnowgod

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The traditional reason why Prostitution is illegal is that whoring destroys nations.

A more technical answer is that everything has been converted to "commercial crimes" in the US, and that congress has the right to regulate "interstate commerce" under Article 1 Section 8 Clause 3 of the Constitution. They have no authority to regulate individual sexual practices in the private, but as soon as you bring money (more specifically, Federal Reserve Notes) into it, it becomes commercial in nature. Your body is your temple, and you aren't supposed to conduct commerce within the temple, anyway.

There is also the very real problem of human trafficking/rape/torture/kidnapping/slavery that goes along with sex work.
 

Energizer

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The traditional reason why Prostitution is illegal is that whoring destroys nations.

A more technical answer is that everything has been converted to "commercial crimes" in the US, and that congress has the right to regulate "interstate commerce" under Article 1 Section 8 Clause 3 of the Constitution. They have no authority to regulate individual sexual practices in the private, but as soon as you bring money (more specifically, Federal Reserve Notes) into it, it becomes commercial in nature. Your body is your temple, and you aren't supposed to conduct commerce within the temple, anyway.

There is also the very real problem of human trafficking/rape/torture/kidnapping/slavery that goes along with sex work.
None of those reasons you listed make any sense.
1) "Prostitution destroys nations" - Not following you there. It's legal in some countries and they do just fine.

2) Yeah, that all sounds nice in theory, except the gov't doesn't have any interest in protecting our bodily temples in general, so I don't really think that's why. I think if the government found a way to make some coin off of it and control the process, they might be more open to the idea. That's really what it seems to be about, as opposed to some idea of morality. If it was about morality then I would think the CIA would be held accountable for using sexual blackmail as a political weapon.

3) Human trafficking and shady characters thrive in the black market. This idea that prostitution is somehow safer because it's illegal is an erroneous assumption. It is safer when things are done above-board, not when you're treated like a criminal for doing your job. I'm not here to be an activist for prostitution, I don't really care. I just think it doesn't make any sense.
 

tankasnowgod

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None of those reasons you listed make any sense.
1) "Prostitution destroys nations" - Not following you there. It's legal in some countries and they do just fine.
Which countries, and "Just fine" by who's definition? And I didn't say just prostitution, but whoring in general. It's promiscuity and sleeping around, too. That absolutely destroys families, which is the foundation for any strong nation. Both illegitimacy and divorce have been skyrocketing in the US, ever since the sexual revolution in the 60s. I think it has become worse with the advent of constant internet porn, and hookup apps.
2) Yeah, that all sounds nice in theory, except the gov't doesn't have any interest in protecting our bodily temples in general, so I don't really think that's why. I think if the government found a way to make some coin off of it and control the process, they might be more open to the idea. That's really what it seems to be about, as opposed to some idea of morality. If it was about morality then I would think the CIA would be held accountable for using sexual blackmail as a political weapon.
Why did you focus on the last part of my statement, while ignoring the part about why the government regulates it in the first place? I'll reprint it without that last part-

"A more technical answer is that everything has been converted to "commercial crimes" in the US, and that congress has the right to regulate "interstate commerce" under Article 1 Section 8 Clause 3 of the Constitution. They have no authority to regulate individual sexual practices in the private, but as soon as you bring money (more specifically, Federal Reserve Notes) into it, it becomes commercial in nature."
3) Human trafficking and shady characters thrive in the black market. This idea that prostitution is somehow safer because it's illegal is an erroneous assumption. It is safer when things are done above-board, not when you're treated like a criminal for doing your job. I'm not here to be an activist for prostitution,
While shady characters may thrive in a black market, it's clear that they thrive in legal sex work, too. Pornography is legal, for example, but it's still dominated by those same shady characters, and plagued with the exact same problems as prostitution. I didn't imply that prostitution is "safer" because it's illegal (specifically, a commercial crime), but it's really a disgusting industry in general, and will bring with it true human rights violations, like all the ones I mentioned above, whether it's legal or illegal. You can see this in both legal pornography, and illegal prostitution.

I don't really care. I just think it doesn't make any sense.
Maybe that's the problem, you just don't care. I don't truly buy that, though. Would you want to live right next door to a brothel?

But, it actually does make sense, in an answer to Carlin's question.

Regular sex takes place in the Private, where the government has no authority. That is where people are supposed to govern themselves. Once commerce comes into the equation, suddenly, the Federal Government does have jurisdiction to regulate it, according to the commerce clause, and once they had jurisdiction to regulate sexual acts, they took action. It's really not different than why the Federal Government built a freeway system in the several states, but didn't build one in Mexico or Brazil. They simply built a freeway system where they had jurisdiction to do so.
 

Energizer

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Which countries, and "Just fine" by who's definition? And I didn't say just prostitution, but whoring in general. It's promiscuity and sleeping around, too. That absolutely destroys families, which is the foundation for any strong nation. Both illegitimacy and divorce have been skyrocketing in the US, ever since the sexual revolution in the 60s. I think it has become worse with the advent of constant internet porn, and hookup apps.
Well, Netherlands comes to mind as far as legal prostitution. Promiscuity being an inherent wrong here is debatable. I don't agree with infidelity in monogmous relationships, of course that can be destructive I would agree there. However, with regards to promiscuity in general, I have little issue with it for single people. What's more my issue is people treating each other poorly and using sex as the excuse to be a douche. People should be kind to each other.
. Both illegitimacy and divorce have been skyrocketing in the US, ever since the sexual revolution in the 60s. I think it has become worse with the advent of constant internet porn, and hookup apps.
Maybe. I think people are quick to reach for something to blame whenever seeing trends like this. Personally I am of the camp that how the child is raised is most critical to how they act as an adult and conduct themselves. People cheated before the Internet too. It might make it easier, but people still had a way before the Internet.
They have no authority to regulate individual sexual practices in the private, but as soon as you bring money (more specifically, Federal Reserve Notes) into it, it becomes commercial in nature."
Yes, I got that.
it's really a disgusting industry in general, and will bring with it true human rights violations, like all the ones I mentioned above, whether it's legal or illegal. You can see this in both legal pornography, and illegal prostitution.
Well, I think it's disgusting when people are forced into it, but otherwise I don't have an issue with women choosing to do it. They provide a service. Yes but human violations are much more prevalent when you criminalize all parties involved and stigmatize them than have everything done above-board. Do you know how much worse the porn industry would be if it was all illegal? Much worse. Sure, it's already scummy, I agree there.

Regular sex takes place in the Private, where the government has no authority. That is where people are supposed to govern themselves. Once commerce comes into the equation, suddenly, the Federal Government does have jurisdiction to regulate it, according to the commerce clause, and once they had jurisdiction to regulate sexual acts, they took action. It's really not different than why the Federal Government built a freeway system in the several states, but didn't build one in Mexico or Brazil. They simply built a freeway system where they had jurisdiction to do so.
Generally, people do have sex in private, but sometimes they might be on a hike or somewhere semi-secluded and nature calls. People have a right to disobey unjust laws.
 

tankasnowgod

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Maybe. I think people are quick to reach for something to blame whenever seeing trends like this. Personally I am of the camp that how the child is raised is most critical to how they act as an adult and conduct themselves. People cheated before the Internet too. It might make it easier, but people still had a way before the Internet.
Well, my thinking in this area has evolved over a decade plus of thinking about it and mulling it over. I used to have very libertarian views on prostitution myself, but they have evolved over time.

And yeah, prostitution (aka "The oldest profession") and infidelity have existed for a long time. Thousands of years, at least. There are many stories in the Old Testament about these issues, so clearly, they have been around a long time.
Well, I think it's disgusting when people are forced into it, but otherwise I don't have an issue with women choosing to do it. They provide a service. Yes but human violations are much more prevalent when you criminalize all parties involved and stigmatize them than have everything done above-board.
But really, how much did they really "choose" to do so? Back when I lived in Hollywood (in what feels like another lifetime at this point), I knew a few women who had engaged in stripping and/or pornography. I don't think any of them hooked, but I can't be sure. The one commonality between them was that they were all broke. Some were very financially desperate, being virtually homeless, and couch surfing with friends to survive. A couple used heavy drugs, sometimes frequently, all drank alcohol. A couple of them committed self harm, like cutting and suicide attempts. I know one friend was trafficked and kept as a slave for 4 months, and I'm starting to suspect she may have been under MK Ultra type mind control. None of them did it for the "art," or because they "loved their job."

So, how much "choice" did they have, really?
Do you know how much worse the porn industry would be if it was all illegal? Much worse. Sure, it's already scummy, I agree there.
The idea that it would be "much worse" is pure speculation. There are millions of pornographic films and websites and such out there, easily accessed by anyone with an internet connection. If it were truly made illegal (and a government entity didn't try to monopolize the industry), then the number of productions and people working in that industry and such would fall dramatically, maybe to something like 1% of what it currently is. Even if the percentage of shady characters increased in that industry, the sheer number of shady people in that industry would decrease, as there would be so much less production and distribution of pornographic content.
Generally, people do have sex in private, but sometimes they might be on a hike or somewhere semi-secluded and nature calls. People have a right to disobey unjust laws.
If you are somewhere secluded, you're basically in the private, anyway. I'd agree with your final statement, but I don't think most of the laws against prostitution are "unjust."
 
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None of those reasons you listed make any sense.
1) "Prostitution destroys nations" - Not following you there. It's legal in some countries and they do just fine.

2) Yeah, that all sounds nice in theory, except the gov't doesn't have any interest in protecting our bodily temples in general, so I don't really think that's why. I think if the government found a way to make some coin off of it and control the process, they might be more open to the idea. That's really what it seems to be about, as opposed to some idea of morality. If it was about morality then I would think the CIA would be held accountable for using sexual blackmail as a political weapon.

3) Human trafficking and shady characters thrive in the black market. This idea that prostitution is somehow safer because it's illegal is an erroneous assumption. It is safer when things are done above-board, not when you're treated like a criminal for doing your job. I'm not here to be an activist for prostitution, I don't really care. I just think it doesn't make any sense.

It is YOU who makes no sense whatsoever. Seems like it is you who has issues with sex because you were ranting on about the subject in one of my threads too.

Why not get married, settle down and have all the hot and juicy sex you want, till your hearts content? And you can even go outside if you have a private setting. Just you, your partner and nature. What could be better? You can have a great emotional relationship with someone as well-something that you’re not going to get with multiple partners. You just don’t get that emotional intimacy with a multitude. So problem solved. It’s legal. You can do what ever you want in the confines of your home, in private.

Your arguments hold no water.
 
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None of those reasons you listed make any sense.
1) "Prostitution destroys nations" - Not following you there. It's legal in some countries and they do just fine.

2) Yeah, that all sounds nice in theory, except the gov't doesn't have any interest in protecting our bodily temples in general, so I don't really think that's why. I think if the government found a way to make some coin off of it and control the process, they might be more open to the idea. That's really what it seems to be about, as opposed to some idea of morality. If it was about morality then I would think the CIA would be held accountable for using sexual blackmail as a political weapon.

3) Human trafficking and shady characters thrive in the black market. This idea that prostitution is somehow safer because it's illegal is an erroneous assumption. It is safer when things are done above-board, not when you're treated like a criminal for doing your job. I'm not here to be an activist for prostitution, I don't really care. I just think it doesn't make any sense.
You DO care or else you wouldn’t be harping on about it continually.
 
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Uh, you really don’t understand what having a relationship with Jesus the Christ is all about. Notice I didn’t say “christianity”. Christianity is a religion. Jesus didn’t come to start a new religion. He came to reconcile humanity back into having a relationship with the Father, our Creator-humanity which became separated from Him because of sin and sinful patterns.

And I don’t know where you get that idea that being a follower of Jesus makes someone weak. Quite the contrary. Read Jesus words. He
gives you strength, His strength, thru the power of the Holy Spirit living inside of you- that is, IF you’ve had a spiritual experience of being born again from above. IF you’ve had a genuine spiritual transformation. That’s being truly “Christ-like.”

It’s not about some lame religion that was created by man, that makes you do all sorts of religious works or religious gymnastics in order to earn God’s approval. No, Christ died for individuals by offering Himself as a sacrifice to our Father who is Holy. Holy means “separate”. Jesus, being sin-less, offered Himself for us sin-ful, messed up, destructive humans. Whom, sometimes we get it right but most of the times we mess up, and a lot of times, mess up real bad.

So by surrending your life to Him, in other words, humbling yourself, and choosing to become a follower of Him, acknowledging that you are a sin prone individual, you also can have a relationship with the Father in heaven, our Creator.

Because God looks at a person’s heart. He knows what motivates a person to do what they do. I said all that to explain it ain’t a religion. It’s a way of living your life, walking in light, accessing the power of God, and not in walking in darkness.

And it also isn’t weak. So in regards to your ”weakness” comment, you may be referring to Jesus saying “turn the other cheek” stuff like that. It really means you don’t argue back with fools. You don’t fight violence with violence, for example. You be different. Ya. turn. the. other. cheek. Ie. have restraint with someone who’s a beast. Got it?
Oh, hi :)
Uh, you really don’t understand what having a relationship with Jesus the Christ is all about. Notice I didn’t say “christianity”. Christianity is a religion. Jesus didn’t come to start a new religion. He came to reconcile humanity back into having a relationship with the Father, our Creator-humanity which became separated from Him because of sin and sinful patterns.

And I don’t know where you get that idea that being a follower of Jesus makes someone weak. Quite the contrary. Read Jesus words. He
gives you strength, His strength, thru the power of the Holy Spirit living inside of you- that is, IF you’ve had a spiritual experience of being born again from above. IF you’ve had a genuine spiritual transformation. That’s being truly “Christ-like.”

It’s not about some lame religion that was created by man, that makes you do all sorts of religious works or religious gymnastics in order to earn God’s approval. No, Christ died for individuals by offering Himself as a sacrifice to our Father who is Holy. Holy means “separate”. Jesus, being sin-less, offered Himself for us sin-ful, messed up, destructive humans. Whom, sometimes we get it right but most of the times we mess up, and a lot of times, mess up real bad.

So by surrending your life to Him, in other words, humbling yourself, and choosing to become a follower of Him, acknowledging that you are a sin prone individual, you also can have a relationship with the Father in heaven, our Creator.

Because God looks at a person’s heart. He knows what motivates a person to do what they do. I said all that to explain it ain’t a religion. It’s a way of living your life, walking in light, accessing the power of God, and not in walking in darkness.

And it also isn’t weak. So in regards to your ”weakness” comment, you may be referring to Jesus saying “turn the other cheek” stuff like that. It really means you don’t argue back with fools. You don’t fight violence with violence, for example. You be different. Ya. turn. the. other. cheek. Ie. have restraint with someone who’s a beast. Got it?
You are devoid of logic and reasoning so there's no point in debating this with you but continue relying on a moral code from the Bronze age which justified slavery, killing gays, poor treatment of women, has traces in anti-semitism, etc. and then cherry-pick good things that may have appeared and run with that.
 

Energizer

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It is YOU who makes no sense whatsoever. Seems like it is you who has issues with sex because you were ranting on about the subject in one of my threads too.

Why not get married, settle down and have all the hot and juicy sex you want, till your hearts content? And you can even go outside if you have a private setting. Just you, your partner and nature. What could be better? You can have a great emotional relationship with someone as well-something that you’re not going to get with multiple partners. You just don’t get that emotional intimacy with a multitude. So problem solved. It’s legal. You can do what ever you want in the confines of your home, in private.

Your arguments hold no water.
I had a short relationship earlier this year which I found to be unsatisfying. I'm more focused right now on trying to do other things than I am looking for women. Women will always be around. Other things must come first. Marriage is not for me, but I am open to a relationship.
 

Ritchie

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The way I see it - this victimisation stuff is a bit busted. All this talk about "the elites" and "them" manipulating everyone, and people being victims of "them", and "them" dominating people - while I get the desire for the banter, is a bit pointless and somewhat of a red herring.

At every level of society there are people in "power" positions and those people tend to manipulate others - human nature. Exhibited from the most innocent settings - like in school playgrounds where the popular kid will dominate the narrative and influence what the other kids do and how they perceive their social world - through to religion, government and media controllers. It's nothing new, although granted it's important to be aware of. In other words “Them” and “they” are everywhere, always have been and are, at least for now, part of the way humans socialise and structure.

If one were to be concerned with manipulative forces in society, rather than look at "them" who are doing it to "us", it would probably be better to take a more systemic perspective. Money, for example, is the most manipulative mechanism in all of human history with it's only rival for that top mantel being religion. It is the motivating and driving force in all things when it comes to getting people to do things they otherwise wouldn't.. but money is systemic. To get rid of money, would mean to get rid of society and the world as we know it and I'm sure most people wouldn't want that. But let's be honest, the economic system is set up in such a way that it makes manipulation so easy. If you want something done that someone would never normally do on their own accord (which would be a high percentage of human activities), then just pay them an amount that motivates them. Money, of course, has many positive benefits as well, so in this regard it's taking the good with the bad and just being aware of the situation. In a sense I guess you could say the same of religion, although religion has far less benefits and arguably greatly hinders progress and evolution.

And now comes a little bit of harsh reality, and the recognition of the human condition - If there are people in the world that allow themselves to be that easily manipulated, and are that out of touch with their own nature that they can't navigate and realise when they are straying way off centre, and not self reflect on and grow in order to filter out the crap being fed to them... Then I guess they are just loosing in the game of life, right. It's just the way it works, if animals (humans included) aren't evolving they are getting left by the wayside. So if people are that easily influenced by ridiculous narratives, the media, influencers, religion and of course financial incentives.. then there's not much hope for them either way and they certainly aren't evolving.

The point here is to be more aware of NOT being influenced by forces and persuaded of things that are clearly well out of line with our nature. An innate compass to navigate what those things are is something that is procured over time and requires practice and conscious awareness. It takes patience and a willingness to periodically throughout the day be absent of sensory stimulation and to reflect and be present internally as well as externally. Being a quality human in modern society takes effort, training and discipline. Banging away at keyboards, and being angry at "them" certainly doesn't do that, and probably just plays into the entire viscous cycle.

Who knows, what may arise from all this is a new generation of humans that aren't as easily manipulated and influenced by media, religion, gurus, myths, money and populist opinion. If that happened society as we know it, and the human world in general would certainly change.

I hope not to offend anyone but I do find the comments on Christianity in this thread ironically amusing, since in all likely hood the religion was fabricated to exert power and control over the masses through threats of hell and damnation for disobedience and promises of heaven and glory for conformity.. and fit the "elites" such as kings and queens, the court structure and the law, and of course the church structure etc into the tapestry of the divine hierarchy. Turn the other cheek and accept how life is, even if you feel it is unjust, for it is god's will and in death you will reap all the benefits. Slaves accept your masters and you too will be saved. The message is hilarious. And nothing is private and yours - even god watches and judges your private intimate moments if it is not condoned through the institution of "marriage". Funny stuff.
 

tankasnowgod

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I hope not to offend anyone but I do find the comments on Christianity in this thread ironically amusing, since in all likely hood the religion was fabricated to exert power and control over the masses through threats of hell and damnation for disobedience and promises of heaven and glory for conformity.. and fit the "elites" such as kings and queens, the court structure and the law, and of course the church structure etc into the tapestry of the divine hierarchy. Turn the other cheek and accept how life is, even if you feel it is unjust, for it is god's will and in death you will reap all the benefits. Slaves accept your masters and you too will be saved. The message is hilarious. And nothing is private and yours - even god watches and judges your private intimate moments if it is not condoned through the institution of "marriage". Funny stuff.
Have you ever read any of the gospels, or the other books of the New Testament?
 
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Oh, hi :)

You are devoid of logic and reasoning so there's no point in debating this with you but continue relying on a moral code from the Bronze age which justified slavery, killing gays, poor treatment of women, has traces in anti-semitism, etc. and then cherry-pick good things that may have appeared and run with that.
You completely miss the points of what I was saying. It has nothing to do with some “moral code from the Bronze age”. But your eyes haven’t been opened yet, so yeah, you’re right. There’s no point in debating this…..with you.
 

tankasnowgod

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I went to a Christian school, I’ve got the gist of it… is there something you’re referring to specifically?
You didn't answer my question.

I asked if you had ever read the gospels or other books of the New Testament. Not if you relied on the opinions of others for a summary of what is actually in those books. Claiming you got the gist of it implies that you haven't read them yourself. Which, if true, means you are judging other's beliefs based on something you don't have knowledge of.
 
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You didn't answer my question.

I asked if you had ever read the gospels or other books of the New Testament. Not if you relied on the opinions of others for a summary of what is actually in those books. Claiming you got the gist of it implies that you haven't read them yourself. Which, if true, means you are judging other's beliefs based on something you don't have knowledge of.
My father is the biggest preacher of the Bible, and he has never himself read a word of it. He gets all of his beliefs from tv shows on the Bible. His version is so far off. I think this is where faith comes into play, you can’t possible understand God until you take that leap of faith. Perspective is gonna be different until then.
 

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