The High Serotonin Personality

[TheBeard]

Just one cup in the morning can prevent your restful sleep 12.5+ hours later? Is liver function OK? It should have been fully metabolized and excreted by then.

Yes it's that bad.
Liver is not ok.

 

[james2388]

I don't think the question of high or low serotonin is relevant. Serotonin is just the conversion of tryptophan which most likely happens as part of a circadian rhythm cycle to convert to melatonin.
I think the question of how and why does tryptophan bind to serum albumin is more important.
Being that the liver produces albumin. How important is albumin levels in the body? Extremely important. Life or death important.
Is this tryptophan problem, really an albumin problem? Potentially, especially metabolically.
Search " Low albumin depression " - remarkably these ' high serotonin psychiatric states', are actually low albumin states.
What also binds to Albumin? Other catecholamines. BINDING OF CATECHOLAMINES TO HUMAN SERUM ALBUMIN
How to support the production and regulation of albumin?
How does Albumin connect to the worst health population? Diabetics? High Hb1ac inversely associated with Albumin levels.
How does Albumin connect to other 'wasting diseases'.
Zinc seems to effect transport proteins and is also inside the transport proteins. Negative feedback loop. ]The effect of severe zinc deficiency on serum levels of albumin, transferrin, and prealbumin in man - PubMed
Searching zinc deficiency with any of these 'High serotonin or Low Serotonin states' you get some positive feedback. Measuring serotonin is all too ambiguous. Blood brain barrier is a different realm compared to circulating blood.
Okay so what else about Albumin? Albumin stabilizes blood volume.
So what about salt? Sodium increases with albumin infusion. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3927194/
Zinc and Salt? Very Peaty for combating 'serotonin', when the problem may very well be in an albumin deficiency.
Hypoalbuminemia even causes edema... Very similar to Peat high serotonin states.
Hypoalbuminemia is seen in up to 50% of internal medicine patients and 65% of adults in intensive care units. Seems like hypoalbuminemia is the real boogeyman.

Psychiatric and poor metabolic states all begin with hypoalbuminemia. We've see this time and time again. The vegans get absolutely rekt. They start feeling awesome when they get back on meat. Feel sane, stronger etc. It's protein /albumin not serotonin or tryptophan. All the people going carnivore initially feel great when albumin levels get restored, and then their needs for glucose, and calcium become undeniable cravings.

To many people in these forums are fearful of muscle meat for various reasons and their only protein sources are gelatin, milk, yogurt, and maybe shellfish, while they load up on sugars. These same people are most likely taking thyroid meds as well. The thyroid can produce hormones just fine with the vitamins and minerals provided in Ray Peat diets and The Vertical Diet. What these people are missing is the albumin factor, the protein which transports thyroid hormones. Of which binds very well to retinol, which is also a cofactor in thyroid hormone production. The ray peat community tends to be anti exercise as well, Where exercise raises albumin levels. In nature, you can't eat without hunting or finding food first!
Exercise also tends to help these ' high serotonin psychiatric conditions'

Albumin: Function & Associated Diseases - SelfHacked

 

[success23]

Keep dopamine high and keep stress low.

 

[Uselis]

I don't think the question of high or low serotonin is relevant. Serotonin is just the conversion of tryptophan which most likely happens as part of a circadian rhythm cycle to convert to melatonin.
I think the question of how and why does tryptophan bind to serum albumin is more important.
Being that the liver produces albumin. How important is albumin levels in the body? Extremely important. Life or death important.
Is this tryptophan problem, really an albumin problem? Potentially, especially metabolically.
Search " Low albumin depression " - remarkably these ' high serotonin psychiatric states', are actually low albumin states.
What also binds to Albumin? Other catecholamines. BINDING OF CATECHOLAMINES TO HUMAN SERUM ALBUMIN
How to support the production and regulation of albumin?
How does Albumin connect to the worst health population? Diabetics? High Hb1ac inversely associated with Albumin levels.
How does Albumin connect to other 'wasting diseases'.
Zinc seems to effect transport proteins and is also inside the transport proteins. Negative feedback loop. ]The effect of severe zinc deficiency on serum levels of albumin, transferrin, and prealbumin in man - PubMed
Searching zinc deficiency with any of these 'High serotonin or Low Serotonin states' you get some positive feedback. Measuring serotonin is all too ambiguous. Blood brain barrier is a different realm compared to circulating blood.
Okay so what else about Albumin? Albumin stabilizes blood volume.
So what about salt? Sodium increases with albumin infusion. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3927194/
Zinc and Salt? Very Peaty for combating 'serotonin', when the problem may very well be in an albumin deficiency.
Hypoalbuminemia even causes edema... Very similar to Peat high serotonin states.
Hypoalbuminemia is seen in up to 50% of internal medicine patients and 65% of adults in intensive care units. Seems like hypoalbuminemia is the real boogeyman.

Psychiatric and poor metabolic states all begin with hypoalbuminemia. We've see this time and time again. The vegans get absolutely rekt. They start feeling awesome when they get back on meat. Feel sane, stronger etc. It's protein /albumin not serotonin or tryptophan. All the people going carnivore initially feel great when albumin levels get restored, and then their needs for glucose, and calcium become undeniable cravings.

To many people in these forums are fearful of muscle meat for various reasons and their only protein sources are gelatin, milk, yogurt, and maybe shellfish, while they load up on sugars. These same people are most likely taking thyroid meds as well. The thyroid can produce hormones just fine with the vitamins and minerals provided in Ray Peat diets and The Vertical Diet. What these people are missing is the albumin factor, the protein which transports thyroid hormones. Of which binds very well to retinol, which is also a cofactor in thyroid hormone production. The ray peat community tends to be anti exercise as well, Where exercise raises albumin levels. In nature, you can't eat without hunting or finding food first!
Exercise also tends to help these ' high serotonin psychiatric conditions'

Albumin: Function & Associated Diseases - SelfHacked

Hey man,

very interesting, thanks for sharing duch info! When you say exercise does it mean something specific, some heart beating zone, sweating, etc or it simply means that light movement sufficient? When I think about exercise I always imagine running/cycling/lifting weights etc but is what I call "movement by neccesity" (walking everywhere and having physical job) has the same effect on raising albumin?

 

[Mike wolff]

curious I was eating a ketosis type diet and though energy levels and blood work was good I always felt that my stress hormones were elevate as well as my blood pressure . Once I started eating carbohydrates I immediately noticed a difference in my calmness and anxiety . my question is don't carbs raise serotonin levels and what are the symptoms of having low levels or am I experiencing symptoms of high serotonin and need to lower it even more .

 

[Hans]

curious I was eating a ketosis type diet and though energy levels and blood work was good I always felt that my stress hormones were elevate as well as my blood pressure . Once I started eating carbohydrates I immediately noticed a difference in my calmness and anxiety . my question is don't carbs raise serotonin levels and what are the symptoms of having low levels or am I experiencing symptoms of high serotonin and need to lower it even more .

Looking at the effects of one neurotransitter is almost impossible as all neurotransmitters influence others. So if you lower or increase serotonin, it will have an effect on dopamine, oxytocin, prolactin, etc.
But regardless, carbs that spike insulin has been shown to enhance uptake of tryptophan into the brain. Eating a big bolus of insulinogenic carbs on its own can most likely give you serotonergic symptoms, depending on how high your serotonin is in comparison to dopamine and how rapidly it's broken down. In a fasted state, more tryptophan is available for serotonin synthesis, and if you fast long enough and then eat insulinogenic carbs, then you can get very high serotonin symptoms. This is what buddha is said to have done to gain "enlightenment".
However, this serotonergic effect can be offset by eating protein with the carbs, since there will be other large neutral amino acids in the blood as well that will compete with the tryptophan.

Free fatty acids on the other hand release tryptophan from albumin this enhancing their uptake into the brain and promoting serotonin synthesis.
So carbs are not worse than fats, but I'd say the worse is to eat something like white rice on its own after a couple of hours (e.g. overnight fast) without food. If your serotonin is very low, then this might make you feel normal perhaps.
But the safest bet would be to have protein (such as beef) with honey or fruit as that will provide you with a low Fernstrom ratio and low GI foods, and this will lead to low serotonin synthesis and more dopamine synthesis.

 

[andrewlee224]

Do you find that high serotonin people want to 'convert' (perhaps subconsciously) low serotonin people to high serotonin? Because that definitely has been my experience. If you are a happy, free person and find yourself in an environment full of HS people it's kind of difficult to maintain that (unless you know Peat and his principles, have a good diet, etc., or have a proper support from other people). In fact that's how my health issues started.. I think I was a high dopamine person, but had crappy diet (by Peat standards, I don't mean a SAD diet, just without enough nutritionally rich foods - I ate avocados and stuff like that lol) so I guess I didn't have enough resources to withstand stress like that.
On the other hand perhaps dropping a single HS person into an environment of high dopamine/low serotonin people would make them change? Or at least hasten the process if the diet and other things are in place. It's interesting.

 

[Hans]

Do you find that high serotonin people want to 'convert' (perhaps subconsciously) low serotonin people to high serotonin? Because that definitely has been my experience. If you are a happy, free person and find yourself in an environment full of HS people it's kind of difficult to maintain that (unless you know Peat and his principles, have a good diet, etc., or have a proper support from other people). In fact that's how my health issues started.. I think I was a high dopamine person, but had crappy diet (by Peat standards, I don't mean a SAD diet, just without enough nutritionally rich foods - I ate avocados and stuff like that lol) so I guess I didn't have enough resources to withstand stress like that.
On the other hand perhaps dropping a single HS person into an environment of high dopamine/low serotonin people would make them change? Or at least hasten the process if the diet and other things are in place. It's interesting.

Oh yeah for sure. Sometimes a big enough experience can shock someone out of their state, but sometimes they need repetitive shocks to complete/mostly get out of that state. Serotonin does seem to make someone want to cleave to a certain belief and remain close-minded, but it's often because they have to believe in it because it's their savior/solution so to speak. Meaning, let's say I believe training to failure will give me the best muscle growth, but if someone challenges me, I will not change because I have to believe that training to failure is the answer else I have wasted 5 years of my life training suboptimally (this is all an example ofc). And I can't afford to have lost 5 years of my life, so now I'm going to double down.

A high dopamine personality will realize that 5 years have been wasted, but it's only 5 years of their 100-year lifespan. There is still ample time to do the right thing. The sooner the better, right?

 

[Brandin]

I hate serotonin so much! It's the worst. Many of those boxes I have checked for over 90% of my lifetime. High serotonin is literally all I've ever known. I am ready to be free of serotonin once and for all. I'm more of the less aggressive type usually. My symptoms are less but I still get:

-Tiredness
-Rigid thinking (sometimes, gotten a lot better). Part of this is really hard wired into my personality though, as I'm even more of a facts based person than many, being an engineer and whatnot.
-Reduced cognitive thinking
-Reduced verbal fluence
-Some amount of anticipation anxiety (way less though)

I used to check a lot of the boxes but now I'm down to those 4-5, but I'm still not happy with it.

I have noticed I have a little more creativity when feeling better, even though I tend to be more logical though.

fact based isnt serotonergic if its something undeniably observably true. Its serotonergic to be rigid about things that arent undeniably observably true.

 

[Brandin]

Do you find that high serotonin people want to 'convert' (perhaps subconsciously) low serotonin people to high serotonin? Because that definitely has been my experience. If you are a happy, free person and find yourself in an environment full of HS people it's kind of difficult to maintain that (unless you know Peat and his principles, have a good diet, etc., or have a proper support from other people). In fact that's how my health issues started.. I think I was a high dopamine person, but had crappy diet (by Peat standards, I don't mean a SAD diet, just without enough nutritionally rich foods - I ate avocados and stuff like that lol) so I guess I didn't have enough resources to withstand stress like that.
On the other hand perhaps dropping a single HS person into an environment of high dopamine/low serotonin people would make them change? Or at least hasten the process if the diet and other things are in place. It's interesting.

They dont have the same empathy and valueing system as you. They see some of the dopaminergic behaviors as disgusting if it happened to not be highstatus enough. Considering a large portion of society is high serotonin now this is going to get more and more prellevant

 

[Matestube]

I was inspired to research and write a bit about how serotonin affects the personality and how it would make people behave. Keep in mind that not everyone with high serotonin will have all these traits, but only some of them, and that there are basically two major serotonin personalities, but I'll be discussing it in the article. Enjoy and please leave a comment.

The High Serotonin Personality

Read here on how to lower serotonin and increase dopamine.

Please do me a favour, if you liked the articles and learned something new, please share it on social media, it really helps to get the word out, thanks so much.

I'm in quite a catch 22 situation as I depend on melatonin for my sleep quality at night, but I feel it's increasing my serotonergic traits.
Melatonin helps me:
- sleep deeper
- feel refreshed
- think clearer and quicker
- face less saggy
But it also makes me:
- passive agressive
- less motivated
- more apathetic
All serotonergic traits...
How can I keep my sleep quality without having all the nasty serotonin sides?

 

[Hans]

I'm in quite a catch 22 situation as I depend on melatonin for my sleep quality at night, but I feel it's increasing my serotonergic traits.
Melatonin helps me:
- sleep deeper
- feel refreshed
- think clearer and quicker
- face less saggy
But it also makes me:
- passive agressive
- less motivated
- more apathetic
All serotonergic traits...
How can I keep my sleep quality without having all the nasty serotonin sides?

Melatonin does increase serotonin for sure.
What helped me a lot for sleep is getting my vit D up (lots of sunlight; which also helps with circadian rhythm), magnesium, aspirin, small dose of thyroid and bone broth. Vitamin D and magnesium have a strong synergy, so it's important to optimize both.
Magnolia and valerian root are also very helpful for sleep.

 

[Matestube]

Melatonin does increase serotonin for sure.
What helped me a lot for sleep is getting my vit D up (lots of sunlight; which also helps with circadian rhythm), magnesium, aspirin, small dose of thyroid and bone broth. Vitamin D and magnesium have a strong synergy, so it's important to optimize both.
Magnolia and valerian root are also very helpful for sleep.

Thank you.
I've read recently on threads here that progesterone has a calming effect.
I will try this before bed, must be a lot healthier than melatonin.

 

[Hans]

Thank you.
I've read recently on threads here that progesterone has a calming effect.
I will try this before bed, must be a lot healthier than melatonin.

Yes definitely. It can help you sleep like a rock. For me, 3-6mg sublingual is good, whereas 10mg topical makes me tired and non-motivated the next day.