The Health Cost Of Lockdowns- Death Tolls From Increased Suicide, Blood Shortages, And Other Effects

[milkboi]

People who want lockdown are just sheep who would do anything the news say.

Yeah, or people that need a vacation.

 

[InChristAlone]

People are really scared about the virus still. Like really scared. The most fearful I've EVER seen very sane respectful people. And I've been through the shock of 9/11, this is no where near the level of that attack. They are freaking out about people hiking and walking on trails or traveling by car. Videos of NYC streets show extremely stressed panicked people yelling and screaming for people to go home. They are asking the governor's to lock their states up. That didn't even happen during 9/11. People are avoiding their own family members!!! Their own healthy family members!!!!

 

[Jing]

People are really scared about the virus still. Like really scared. The most fearful I've EVER seen very sane respectful people. And I've been through the shock of 9/11, this is no where near the level of that attack. They are freaking out about people hiking and walking on trails or traveling by car. Videos of NYC streets show extremely stressed panicked people yelling and screaming for people to go home. They are asking the governor's to lock their states up. That didn't even happen during 9/11. People are avoiding their own family members!!! Their own healthy family members!!!!

It's crazy, walking down the street people walking towards me will move so far out the way lol

 

[MetabolicTrash]

What I don't appreciate is the constant reminding of all of the "facts" or info news, media, health "experts" and etc. need to tell everyone. It is like the media and those in "authority" need to make sure to constantly tell everyone what they need or don't need to do/what's best for them overall/etc. Why can't info be provided in a normal way and then let people come to more conclusions on their own? Let people decide what's best for their communities and so on? Forcing the narrative seems to just make few people in "power" come across as the parent and the majority of society as the children that "have to" listen or "should listen" (as if they were to be punished or something if otherwise) whether or not the kid agrees -- or if it even makes complete sense to them. "It's for your own good and the good of others," says 0.05% of people initially with the intent of social isolation/economic crashing/fear mongering/etc. I wonder if no one even mentioned this on TV/media/internet/etc., what would the result be? Many would say "people would be dying" but don't people normally die anyways? Letting everyone know what's killing everyone and why on a specific cause basis seems odd, namely because it's being ignorant to every other cause of death and just choosing to focus on one as if it's worse than all of the others. Not many seem to bat an eye at overall death rates, but when you ascribe a certain portion of deaths to one "virulent/epidemic/pandemic/disease-like" cause it suddenly becomes dramatized (both in the way the info is presented and in how people might personally view it). A virus becomes the "devil" even if more people are dying more deliberately themselves (suicide).

People talk about how sad it is that many commit suicide every day, but I don't hear much on the news about a depression pandemic. Many other diseases exist -- in fact, as I've read here, even aging itself is considered deterioration and/or change/evolving of a system at least, AKA a sort of disease you could argue at some points if it is more of a burden than a benefit. It's more okay when people die of "natural causes" such as old age and various (likely) improvable or treatable conditions in theory just because "it just happens and you must accept it -- can't do much/anything about it." Couldn't one just take the same viewpoint on the virus? Even despite all the "precautions" and etc. people still seem to keep dying from it. If we look at life and death in a deterministic way to argue that no one should put special importance on overall death rates in general, what then justifies the hyper-focusing on one? Why see death/cancer/diseases/aging/etc. overall as inevitable in a sense, but then panic over a new and possible source of death brought to our attention, as if there aren't an endless numbers of those anyways? Also, in normal cold/flu seasons and such, most don't normally mask up and become more hysteric, but these things can and do lead to deaths too + are known to supposedly be contagious too.

 

[InChristAlone]

What I don't appreciate is the constant reminding of all of the "facts" or info news, media, health "experts" and etc. need to tell everyone. It is like the media and those in "authority" need to make sure to constantly tell everyone what they need or don't need to do/what's best for them overall/etc. Why can't info be provided in a normal way and then let people come to more conclusions on their own? Let people decide what's best for their communities and so on? Forcing the narrative seems to just make few people in "power" come across as the parent and the majority of society as the children that "have to" listen or "should listen" (as if they were to be punished or something if otherwise) whether or not the kid agrees -- or if it even makes complete sense to them. "It's for your own good and the good of others," says 0.05% of people initially with the intent of social isolation/economic crashing/fear mongering/etc. I wonder if no one even mentioned this on TV/media/internet/etc., what would the result be? Many would say "people would be dying" but don't people normally die anyways? Letting everyone know what's killing everyone and why on a specific cause basis seems odd, namely because it's being ignorant to every other cause of death and just choosing to focus on one as if it's worse than all of the others. Not many seem to bat an eye at overall death rates, but when you ascribe a certain portion of deaths to one "virulent/epidemic/pandemic/disease-like" cause it suddenly becomes dramatized (both in the way the info is presented and in how people might personally view it). A virus becomes the "devil" even if more people are dying more deliberately themselves (suicide).

People talk about how sad it is that many commit suicide every day, but I don't hear much on the news about a depression pandemic. Many other diseases exist -- in fact, as I've read here, even aging itself is considered deterioration and/or change/evolving of a system at least, AKA a sort of disease you could argue at some points if it is more of a burden than a benefit. It's more okay when people die of "natural causes" such as old age and various (likely) improvable or treatable conditions in theory just because "it just happens and you must accept it -- can't do much/anything about it." Couldn't one just take the same viewpoint on the virus? Even despite all the "precautions" and etc. people still seem to keep dying from it. If we look at life and death in a deterministic way to argue that no one should put special importance on overall death rates in general, what then justifies the hyper-focusing on one? Why see death/cancer/diseases/aging/etc. overall as inevitable in a sense, but then panic over a new "possible" source of death, as if there isn't an endless numbers of those anyways?

I was told that the fear is justified because the virus is so contagious. Heart disease isn't contagious so no one talks about those deaths. So now we have millions of people becoming germophobes. Wonderful. Where is @Amazoniac when we need him to discuss germ theory!

 

[Hugh Johnson]

It's crazy, walking down the street people walking towards me will move so far out the way lol

I'm not afraid of the virus at all, but I feel really messed up psychologically. I figured it was loneliness and boredom, but now I feel like there is this really nasty energy about. I know, it's woo woo, but I still feel it.

 

[Jing]

I'm not afraid of the virus at all, but I feel really messed up psychologically. I figured it was loneliness and boredom, but now I feel like there is this really nasty energy about. I know, it's woo woo, but I still feel it.

Yh I get what you mean, walking down the street feel kind off awkward like people think I'm dirty or something , I'm not scared of the virus at all either.

 

[Waremu]

I thought a lot about the economic impacts of the virus causing increased suicide rates as well. And certainly, government officials and the wealthy are not immune from this either. From an article I just saw today, it appears that it may be the case that the German financial minister. Perhaps the officials in power see the economic impacts as being worse than many are expecting and the virus itself. Europe is already in bad shape economically and this virus is likely the straw that broke the Camels back --- especially if this goes on for months, as it appears it will, let alone there being a second wave.

From a recent news article:

A German finance minister is believed to have killed himself amid concerns about the coronavirus’ effect on his state’s economy.

The body of Thomas Schäfer, from the central German state Hesse, was found on railroad tracks near Frankfurt over the weekend, according to DW News.

Police reportedly believe suicide was to blame for the 54-year-old finance expert’s death. German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung claims a suicide note was left behind.

The state’s premier Volker Bouffier said Schäfer, who had been the finance minister for nearly a decade, was worried about Hesse’s ability to react to the economic devastation felt from the coronavirus.


“His main concern was whether he could manage to fulfill the huge expectations of the population, especially in terms of financial aid," Bouffier said on Sunday. "For him, there was clearly no way out. He was disappointed and so he had to leave us. That has shocked us, has shocked me.”


German finance minister commits suicide as coronavirus blitzes economy

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I'm not afraid of the virus at all, but I feel really messed up psychologically. I figured it was loneliness and boredom, but now I feel like there is this really nasty energy about. I know, it's woo woo, but I still feel it.

I just looked up a prediction for the year. Fear, inflammation, loneliness, earthquakes, floods (haven't had that yet, I think), opposition and conflict. Opioid and suicide crises getting worse. Spot on:

 

[catan]

I'm not afraid of the virus at all, but I feel really messed up psychologically. I figured it was loneliness and boredom, but now I feel like there is this really nasty energy about. I know, it's woo woo, but I still feel it.

Yeah I’m not afraid of the virus as well but this whole thing is having a negative effect on me.

I have to be careful with what I say or people get angry. I still have to live in society and maintain relationships with friends and family so feel like I need to restrain myself. When I raise questions I’m accused of being a conspiracy theorist or denialist or not valuing people’s lives. It’s to the point I wonder why I even bother talking about this or try to make sense of it.

It’s insanity how this is unfolding.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Trump mentioned five days ago the possibility of increased suicides-

Trump worries US will see 'suicides by the thousands' if coronavirus devastates economy

"You're going to lose a number of people to the flu, but you're going to lose more people by putting a country into a massive recession or depression," Trump said Tuesday. "You're gonna lose people. You're gonna have suicides by the thousands."

But then Trump yesterday extended "social distancing" rules to April 30th, so, go figure.

As to some of @haidut's points, Buzzfeed talking about the lockdown effect on the Opiod Epidemic- The Coronavirus Pandemic Has Made The Opioid Epidemic Even Worse

 

[Waremu]

I was told that the fear is justified because the virus is so contagious. Heart disease isn't contagious so no one talks about those deaths. So now we have millions of people becoming germophobes. Wonderful. Where is @Amazoniac when we need him to discuss germ theory!

I think it's a little silly and short-cited to call everyone who is talking the virus seriously "germaphobes."

Many people are not afraid of getting it and dying, but they live with elderly loved ones who have poor health and weakened immune systems and therefore, the risk of serious illness or death being spread to them is much higher. So many people are taking precautions, not so that they do not die, but because they do not give it to loved ones who have poor health. Many of us have elderly and sick loved ones and it's not just about us. It's also about how our actions affect others.

The death rate from the virus could easily increase quite a bit if the hospital system collapses, so that is an issue too. It isn't just about the death rate of the virus itself, but the possibility of it increasing if Hospitals become overburdened, which makes it even more deadly to the sick and elderly, etc. Five people in my personal life have already come down with the virus and one is very sick. The others are likely to live, but some of them are in a lot of pain. Even if one doesn't die, it is not a fun virus to get.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah I’m not afraid of the virus as well but this whole thing is having a negative effect on me.

I have to be careful with what I say or people get angry. I still have to live in society and maintain relationships with friends and family so feel like I need to restrain myself. When I raise questions I’m accused of being a conspiracy theorist or denialist or not valuing people’s lives. It’s to the point I wonder why I even bother talking about this or try to make sense of it.

It’s insanity how this is unfolding.

But the writing is everywhere there are strange things occurring during all this. High profile CEOs stepped down before and during the epidemic in China and then the stock market crashed. We are told we are fighting a "war" that people are on the front lines fighting this war. We are reminded of it daily. This is shock trauma. Flattening the curve is just prolonging the viral outbreak not stopping it. We are going to have more and more months of this as we stretch it out. Bill Gates is friends with Fauci and is saying we need a national digital registry of people who are testing positive, maybe an app that will track people! Conspiracies are literally coming true. We are not operating on theory anymore. Germany is talking about letting people out of quarantine if they have antibodies for the virus. How can they even do that? Some people won't show many antibodies if they have plenty of T killer cells. Gates is also funding the VACCINE for this. We are not conspiracy theorists anymore.

 

[Kingpinguin]

Just hope that the US now realize they should provide healthcare on citizens tax money. Its their money and not the goverments. Still they rather spend it on war and military muscle. Should be spent on healthcare and education. What will happen with all americans without health insurance now. So much damage and debt.
I dont know if its an over reaction or not. But the other risk would be that it is serious disease that if not shutdown could cause overwhelm on hospitals. If hospitals do get overcrowded what will happen then. People will panic even further. Dont understand the point of trying to persuade everyone that its not dangerous either it wont work. Situation is out of control. Next great depression could be near in a few months.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Just hope that the US now realize they should provide healthcare on citizens tax money. Its their money and not the goverments. Still they rather spend it on war and military muscle. Should be spent on healthcare and education. What will happen with all americans without health insurance now. So much damage and debt.
I dont know if its an over reaction or not. But the other risk would be that it is serious disease that if not shutdown could cause overwhelm on hospitals. If hospitals do get overcrowded what will happen then. People will panic even further. Dont understand the point of trying to persuade everyone that its not dangerous either it wont work. Situation is out of control. Next great depression could be near in a few months.

Well, I'm an American myself, and it's convinced me of the exact opposite. The entire disaster here has been the response of governments (city, state, and federal), and I don't want any government having anything to do with healthcare, personally. I avoid most healthcare in general, and especially government funded healthcare. In fact, this thread is about the negative health impact government actions are taking!

Anyways, "overloading hospitals" was a complete shifting of the goal posts. It was supposed to kill tens of millions (supposedly, 2.2 Million in the US alone).

 

[David PS]

Gun shops are now considered essential businesses in N.J., Gov. Murphy says

 

[tankasnowgod]

Gun shops are now considered essential businesses in N.J., Gov. Murphy says

Excellent. Finally, a piece of good news.

"Murphy’s decision to deem firearm dealers an essential business follows guidelines issued by the federal Department of Homeland Security, which added gun dealers, ranges and manufacturers to its essential business guide for its coronavirus response on Saturday."

This certainly hints to a coordinated effort at all levels of government. Theoretically, state and federal are separate, but they are so entwined, they pretty much operate as a single entity. Although under the California orders I've seen, Marijuana shops are considered an "essential" business, and yet, sale of marijuana is prohibited by the DEA, so there is some difference there.

"Murphy’s decision also comes after a federal lawsuit was filed by the New Jersey Second Amendment Society to reopen gun stores, calling Murphy’s initial decision an infringement on a resident’s Second Amendment rights. The head of that group, Alexander Roubian, had condemned the governor’s decision during two press briefings last week."

I hope every deemed "non-essential" business or group of businesses take note. Lawsuits can put an end to this. I have to imagine churches will be the next to file this type of lawsuit, as they also have pretty explicit backing from the Bill of Rights. I think restaurants and bars should still go with the "peaceably assemble" part. While it's a coordinated effort, it's clear that it's being enforced and carried out at the state and local level.

 

[David PS]

I hope every deemed "non-essential" business or group of businesses take note. Lawsuits can put an end to this. I have to imagine churches will be the next to file this type of lawsuit, as they also have pretty explicit backing from the Bill of Rights. I think restaurants and bars should still go with the "peaceably assemble" part. While it's a coordinated effort, it's clear that it's being enforced and carried out at the state and local level.

Trade groups representing car dealerships and auto manufacturers asked President Trump to declare car dealerships "essential" businesses, which therefore should be exempt from potential "shelter in place" rules prompted by the COVID-19 pandemic.
Car Dealerships Want To Be Considered ‘Essential’ So They Can Stay Open During The Pandemic

 

[InChristAlone]

I think it's a little silly and short-cited to call everyone who is talking the virus seriously "germaphobes."

Many people are not afraid of getting it and dying, but they live with elderly loved ones who have poor health and weakened immune systems and therefore, the risk of serious illness or death being spread to them is much higher. So many people are taking precautions, not so that they do not die, but because they do not give it to loved ones who have poor health. Many of us have elderly and sick loved ones and it's not just about us. It's also about how our actions affect others.

The death rate from the virus could easily increase quite a bit if the hospital system collapses, so that is an issue too. It isn't just about the death rate of the virus itself, but the possibility of it increasing if Hospitals become overburdened, which makes it even more deadly to the sick and elderly, etc. Five people in my personal life have already come down with the virus and one is very sick. The others are likely to live, but some of them are in a lot of pain. Even if one doesn't die, it is not a fun virus to get.

You can take precautions sure, even I am. We don't know how this "new" virus is going to act, but acting as though we have to be 6 ft away from everyone including family members is absolutely insane. Absolutely insane. Plus this is not the first time we've had bad flu and cold years and yet here we are "sheltering in place". Flattening the curve just burdens the hospitals for longer period of time thus completely exhausting employees and resources. There is no proof quarantining the entire world will stop this virus. It will be there once you come out of your house again. So good luck being fearful for just right now, you won't be able to go back to your normal life ever again if you really fear these viruses.

 

[foodandtheworld]

@sugarbabe would you mind sharing your criticism of the "flattening the curve" idea? I was extremely skeptical of it once I started hearing it everywhere, was a bit eerie and reminiscent of mass marketing campaigns than anything rational since it's being repeated by everyone who seemingly became epidemiologists overnight.