The gut is full of DHT! Whats the connection to hair?

GorillaHead

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This study says that the gut has high levels of the androgen dht. Knowing this how does this connect with parkinsons and androgenic alopecia?

haidut posted studies that low level androgens cause parkinsons. He also posted studies that Parkinson's is caused by gut issues.

both aga and Parkinson's susceptibility share similar genes.

the answer is close. We are circling it

reading the study my understanding is that if the microbiome travels to the skin or brain dht will rise to protect the body.
Studies have shown that dht is antifungi.

i wonder if drugs like finasteride increase your chances of parkinsons. I remember when i was on finasteride my strength was demolished. Gone. So weak
 
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haidut

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i wonder if drugs like finasteride increase your chances of parkinsons

There is some evidence to suggest that may indeed cause that condition. The downregulation of tyrosine hydroxylase is especially concerning. Even if it does not cause Parkinson (which I am pretty sure it would do if used long enough), the massive drop in dopamine would probably make you feel like a zombie and destroy your sex life, mood, and cognitive function - i.e. basically the signs/symptoms every person with PFS reports.
"...It was found that in adolescent male rats, administration of finasteride at doses of 25 and 50 mg/kg for 14 days dose dependently inhibited open‐field behaviors, reduced contents of dopamine and its metabolites in frontal cortex, hippocampus, caudate putamen, nucleus accumbens, and down‐regulated tyrosine hydroxylase mRNA and protein expressions in substantia nigra and ventral tegmental area. However, there was no significant change of these parameters in early developmental rats after finasteride treatment."
 

Iceman2016

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It would be interesting to see the effects of low dose DHT in a liquid medium ingested orally for individuals who are experiencing gut (dopamine?) issues as part of their PFS symptoms.

Assuming there isn't a lot of intestinal absorbtion, the local effects could maybe provide some benefits?
 

cupofcoffee

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There is some evidence to suggest that may indeed cause that condition. The downregulation of tyrosine hydroxylase is especially concerning. Even if it does not cause Parkinson (which I am pretty sure it would do if used long enough), the massive drop in dopamine would probably make you feel like a zombie and destroy your sex life, mood, and cognitive function - i.e. basically the signs/symptoms every person with PFS reports.
"...It was found that in adolescent male rats, administration of finasteride at doses of 25 and 50 mg/kg for 14 days dose dependently inhibited open‐field behaviors, reduced contents of dopamine and its metabolites in frontal cortex, hippocampus, caudate putamen, nucleus accumbens, and down‐regulated tyrosine hydroxylase mRNA and protein expressions in substantia nigra and ventral tegmental area. However, there was no significant change of these parameters in early developmental rats after finasteride treatment."
From the conclusion of the article
imply finasteride as a potential therapeutic option for neuropsychiatric disorders associated with hyperactivities of dopaminergic system and androgen.
They always try to find a positive🤦‍♂️
 

haidut

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It would be interesting to see the effects of low dose DHT in a liquid medium ingested orally for individuals who are experiencing gut (dopamine?) issues as part of their PFS symptoms.

Assuming there isn't a lot of intestinal absorbtion, the local effects could maybe provide some benefits?

Most of that can be achieved by dissolving the steroid in tocopherols and ingesting. Multiple studies have shown that tocopherols do not absorb at once but stay in the gut for up to 2 days (within the intestinal wall) and a portion of the wall-attached amount absorbs into the systemic/portal circulation every time the person ingest a meal with some fat in it. To make it fully gut specific, you can take the steroid with some charcoal, so the steroid will adsorb onto it, and that way the steroid will pass through the entire digestive track mostly unabsorbed.
 

haidut

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From the conclusion of the article

They always try to find a positive🤦‍♂️

Reminds me of a that story of a pharma executive where he was told the new drug the company was working on was effective but as a side effect it was giving cancer to most patients and they quickly died. The pharma CEO said something along the lines of "Perfect, submit it to FDA for approval! Instead telling FDA it causes cancer, submit a document that says it makes people appreciate the fragility of life".
 

GorillaHead

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Do any of you yall know how the gut influences the skin? Is it bacterial migration? Or immune response built up in the skin.

think about this if dht is high in the gut. How does dht get high in the skin?
 

James b

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Most of that can be achieved by dissolving the steroid in tocopherols and ingesting. Multiple studies have shown that tocopherols do not absorb at once but stay in the gut for up to 2 days (within the intestinal wall) and a portion of the wall-attached amount absorbs into the systemic/portal circulation every time the person ingest a meal with some fat in it. To make it fully gut specific, you can take the steroid with some charcoal, so the steroid will adsorb onto it, and that way the steroid will pass through the entire digestive track mostly unabsorbed.
Love this Haidut. I noticed Peat gave the charcoal idea a very slight nod of approval when you briefly mentioned it with Danny the other day (which is good from a man that doesn’t enthuse very much). Not to derail, but I really want to give the charcoal mixture combination a try. What substances do you think would worthwhile to help heal a once dysbiotic/abused/sluggish intestine? I’m thinking a small amount of tocopherol dissolved: DHT, T, DHEA, Progesterone, DPPC, DSPC. Can you think of anything else that would have a therapeutic effect here? Thank you!
 

Iceman2016

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Most of that can be achieved by dissolving the steroid in tocopherols and ingesting. Multiple studies have shown that tocopherols do not absorb at once but stay in the gut for up to 2 days (within the intestinal wall) and a portion of the wall-attached amount absorbs into the systemic/portal circulation every time the person ingest a meal with some fat in it. To make it fully gut specific, you can take the steroid with some charcoal, so the steroid will adsorb onto it, and that way the steroid will pass through the entire digestive track mostly unabsorbed.

Thanks for the reply to this.

Yes, dissolving in tocopherol seems like a good option. The charcoal idea is also good. I was thinking a somewhat higher volume of liquid (30ml?) to try to get as much contact coverage of the GI tract walls as possible. Maybe it doesn't make much difference.
 

haidut

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Love this Haidut. I noticed Peat gave the charcoal idea a very slight nod of approval when you briefly mentioned it with Danny the other day (which is good from a man that doesn’t enthuse very much). Not to derail, but I really want to give the charcoal mixture combination a try. What substances do you think would worthwhile to help heal a once dysbiotic/abused/sluggish intestine? I’m thinking a small amount of tocopherol dissolved: DHT, T, DHEA, Progesterone, DPPC, DSPC. Can you think of anything else that would have a therapeutic effect here? Thank you!

Well, really anything antiseptic in general. I personally like the MCT oil mixed with charcoal as those fatty acids have strong antibacterial AND antifungal effects and if they can be prevented from absorption so the entire GI tract is exposed to them they should similar to the antibiotic rifaximin.

So, a tablespoon of MCT oil taken with a few grams of charcoal should work quite well to control endotoxemia and the steroids with charcoal (or carrot salad) can be used to heal any damage in the intestinal wall or musculature.
 

haidut

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Thanks for the reply to this.

Yes, dissolving in tocopherol seems like a good option. The charcoal idea is also good. I was thinking a somewhat higher volume of liquid (30ml?) to try to get as much contact coverage of the GI tract walls as possible. Maybe it doesn't make much difference.

The amount of charcoal would depend on the amount of steroid administered. Since most steroids are used in mg amounts there is probably no need to take more than a capsule or two of a charcoal product for a total amount of 500mg-1g. If something like MCT oil is used, which is usually ingested in 10g+ doses, then higher doses of charcoal would be needed for optimal mixture.
 

TheBeard

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The amount of charcoal would depend on the amount of steroid administered. Since most steroids are used in mg amounts there is probably no need to take more than a capsule or two of a charcoal product for a total amount of 500mg-1g. If something like MCT oil is used, which is usually ingested in 10g+ doses, then higher doses of charcoal would be needed for optimal mixture.

Thank you!

You gave me a new experimentation idea: I will mix 15ml coconut oil + 2g of charcoal + 20mg testosterone raw base powder and drink the solution twice a day.

I never took testosterone orally, I'm curious to see how it behaves compared to transdermal.

If I understand correctly, you are saying the oil will act like an ester an slow the absorbtion of the steroid?
 
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