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The Gorilla Theory Of Ketogenic Advocators Is Debunked

paymanz

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Short chain fatty acids are different than what keto people eat on a keto diet.

Ruminant animals and gorilla ,none of them get into ketosis or hypoglycemia state, propionate readily converts into glucose, that is how these animals gluconeogenesis works. Human also converts this SCF to glucose but people on keto diet mostly eat medium and long chain fatty acids.

those animals burn lots of sugar.

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also carbohydrate aside, gorilla's protein intake must be higher than what keto and vegan people mention in their arguments.
 
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bistecca

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Butyric acid is a SCFA and was first isolated from butter.. Animal fats can contain SCFA's.

I'm pretty indifferent about Keto, so don't think i'm arguing with you.
 

yerrag

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But propionates (or propionic acid) are not contained in lipids. Is it broken down by enzymatic action from SCFAs?
 
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paymanz

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Butyric acid is a SCFA and was first isolated from butter.. Animal fats can contain SCFA's.

I'm pretty indifferent about Keto, so don't think i'm arguing with you.
that is very tiny amount, and it is mostly propionate that feeds gluconeogenesis. im not sure about Butyric acid.
 

yerrag

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propionate is a scfa itself.

Yes, technically, but so is acetic acid, but they're not lipids in that they don't get to be oily. Notwithstanding, where are the gorillas getting propionates? What food sources?
 

paymanz

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Yes, technically, but so is acetic acid, but they're not lipids in that they don't get to be oily. Notwithstanding, where are the gorillas getting propionates? What food sources?
fiber, mostly cellulose i believe. it gets fermented in their colon into SCFAs.
 

paymanz

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it is interesting that this gluconeogenesis process in ruminant(probably gorillas too) is a continious process that even insulin doesnt suppress it. unlike gluconeogenesis from amino acids in human which is turned on by stress hormones and inhibited by insulin.

idk , probably human also produce glucose with that pattern if you feed them propionate.

@Mito posted a new study showing gluconeogenesis happens in intestines from fructose , that proccess also is unaffected by insulin , according to that study.
 

paymanz

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Gluconeogenesis in Dairy Cows: The Secret of Making Sweet Milk
from Sour Dough
The rate of total glucose entry increases markedly following
parturition by 200–400 mmol/h, reaching 700 mmol/h
( 3 kg/day) during peak lactation at a milk yield level of 40
kg/day (29, 30; Table 1 and Fig. 1). The glucose entry in top-
performing cows producing 90 kg milk per day has been esti-
mated at 7.4 kg/day of which 4.4 kg will end up as lactose in
milk (17). This large increase in glucose entry cannot be
accounted for by an increase in the absorption of glucose across
the PDV (30). Although starch passing from the rumen into the
intestine may reach up to 5 kg/day with extreme feeding strat-
egies (27), limitations of intestinal starch hydrolysis and glucose
absorption, as well as splanchnic metabolism, decrease the contri-
bution of absorbed glucose to less than 5% of the net splanchnic
glucose supply in most studies (14, 30). These data clearly show
that ruminants have a large reliance on gluconeogenesis in terms
of meeting the glucose requirement.
Formation of short chain fatty acids by the gut microbiota and their impact on human metabolism
daily propionate production, estimated to be 29.5 mg/kg/day for an average 85 kg human, is likely to make only a relatively small contribution to endogenous glucose production (2.2 mg/kg/min43) of which approximately 50% may be attributable to gluconeogenesis.
 
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yerrag

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idk , probably human also produce glucose with that pattern if you feed them propionate.

Never tried drinking rubbing alcohol, but have wondered about it. It's made with propyl alcohol and ethyl alcohol. Perhaps in moderation, or in survival situations, I could reach for it :D

Mito posted a new study showing gluconeogenesis happens in intestines from fructose , that proccess also is unaffected by insulin , according to that study.
Wasn't there something about fructose feeding intestinal bacteria, and caution needed to not take excess fructose?
 

paymanz

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Never tried drinking rubbing alcohol, but have wondered about it. It's made with propyl alcohol and ethyl alcohol. Perhaps in moderation, or in survival situations, I could reach for it :D
Haha you must have miss read my post, thats not about alcohol at all!

Wasn't there something about fructose feeding intestinal bacteria, and caution needed to not take excess fructose
I used to think like that.
if you eat lots of fructose , especially alone and without glucose some of it may feed bacteria. But your body also getting better at fructose absorption as you start eating it for few days, i think i read it in full paper of that study i mentioned.

And fructose naturally is accompanied by glucose which helps absorption.

I personally only get fructose from sucrose or fruits.
 

yerrag

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Haha you must have miss read my post, thats not about alcohol at all
But the propyl alcohol will metabolize to propionate, at least that's what I was thinking.

Like taking sterol alcohol to get stearate, or stearic acid. I read this from @nwo2012.
I personally only get fructose from sucrose or fruits.
When I was looking for pure fructose, the only pure fructose I can find was corn fructose, which Peat says is allergenic. So yes, with fruits or with sucrose or with honey. Agave syrup has 80%, and pears have 70% fructose. So when it comes time for me to get fructose, I'll get it from fruits as well as agave.
 

paymanz

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But the propyl alcohol will metabolize to propionate, at least that's what I was thinking.
Idk, that doesn't sound like something that naturally happens.
When I was looking for pure fructose, the only pure fructose I can find was corn fructose, which Peat says is allergenic. So yes, with fruits or with sucrose or with honey. Agave syrup has 80%, and pears have 70% fructose. So when it comes time for me to get fructose, I'll get it from fruits as well as agave.
Yes to my knowledge ray also gets fructose from sucrose and fruit.
 

haidut

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gorilla's protein intake must be higher than what keto and vegan people mention in their arguments.

I concur with this. Peat said several times that leaves have a very high amount of keto acids in them, which combine with ammonia when ingested and become protein. Similar to his potato protein soup recipe. AFAIK, gorillas eat mostly leaves.
He even said he thought leaves could be a viable food source for humans but before he started advocating them he wanted to do a study and find out the approximate keto-acid content of several types of leaves commonly consumed by people.
 

Momado965

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I concur with this. Peat said several times that leaves have a very high amount of keto acids in them, which combine with ammonia when ingested and become protein. Similar to his potato protein soup recipe. AFAIK, gorillas eat mostly leaves.
He even said he thought leaves could be a viable food source for humans but before he started advocating them he wanted to do a study and find out the approximate keto-acid content of several types of leaves commonly consumed by people.

Leaves such as lettuce, coriander, parsley, leeke etc are what you guys are reffering to right?
 

yerrag

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Leaves such as lettuce, coriander, parsley, leeke etc are what you guys are reffering to right?
I would think gorillas can find other types of leaves more easily - from trees (such as moringa) and tubers ( such as sweet potato leaves).
 

yerrag

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I get that. I meant for human consumption.
Those leaves I mentioned I mentioned are eaten by humans. I don't know if gorillas eat them, but I imagine they would. They grow more easily in the wild, untended.

But if it's the keto acid content that would make them more suitable to take to form into protein in our body, it would be interesting to find out what type of leaves are superior.
 

Momado965

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Those leaves I mentioned I mentioned are eaten by humans. I don't know if gorillas eat them, but I imagine they would. They grow more easily in the wild, untended.

But if it's the keto acid content that would make them more suitable to take to form into protein in our body, it would be interesting to find out what type of leaves are superior.

Wow! I wonder if this will render protein obselete in way. But still I wont let go of my lamb chops and totters haha..!
 

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