The Freeze Response At The Root Of "learned" Helplessness

[Xisca]

Wow, thanks mate!!! What is it in practical terms though ? Like how does a typical AT exercise look like ???

That would be soooo useful to open a knew threat to tell about it, so that it become also easier for future searches on the forum.

 

[Xisca]

I found TRE a very easy way to discharge. You dont even have to do the exercises after the first time. Just have the intention to let your body tremble and off it goes :)

I also found out that there is a possibility of addiction to discharge, that can go on for ever, and just discharge is not enough.

 

[Ahanu]

I also found out that there is a possibility of addiction to discharge, that can go on for ever, and just discharge is not enough.

Yes, it is maybe similar to becoming attached to the peacefull states in meditation were one can get stuck for years. And you are right of course, discharge is just discharge, a release. it doesnt change the mechanisms that made you stuck in the first place.

 

[Ahanu]

What is it in practical terms though ? Like how does a typical AT exercise look like ??

there are 2 main techniques that one will learn in the alexander technique: inhibition and direction: '"You come to learn to inhibit and to direct your activity. You learn, first, to inhibit´the habitual reaction to certain classes of stimuli, and second, to direct yourself consciously in such a way as to affect certain muscular pulls, which processes bring about a new reaction to these stimuli. Boiled down, it all comes to inhibiting a particular reaction to a given stimulus."

it is important to know that inhibition doesnt mean suppression in this context. it is far away from something like "freezing" where a lot of muscular activity is happening inside just the output looks like nothing. if you are able to inhibit an unwanted response that means that you dont loose the efficiently organisation of your energy while you deside to do nothing.
directions are mental orders that help to stabilize the good organization and that are use while moving (thinking in activity)

These techniques, unfortunately, are best learned in one to one lessons and once you are familiar with the techniques and their applications any act you choose can be an "exercise". in a lesson they are normaly thaught in the process of sitting, standing, sitting down and standing up but one is encouraged to apply the technique in all activities throughout the day.

so in practical terms: You take a stimulus (say sitting down) > inhibit (stopping the immediate response to this thought of sitting down) > direct (preferable organization of the muscular system according to the structure of your body ) > think in activity (moving while continuing the new directions)

after a while one start to recognize a lot of automatic responses. In breathing, walking, speaking, sleeping even in thinking and feeling! it is if one was blind before (in that specific area) then it becomes clear why one for example gets pain after certain activities. not because of the activity itself but because of the bad "use" while doing the activity.
when one is stressed, angry, depressed there is nearly always something that one "does" to support that state. if one learn to stop these things then these states will vanish like we were childs. one second dead sad and a few minutes later the happiest human alive :)

 

[MB50]

This video is a good example of how wild animals are able to discharge excessive nervous system activation naturally.



This is way different from how many of us operate on a daily basis. Signs of discharge and re-regulation like trembling and a desire to openly display emotions are often seen as "weakness" or "abnormal", causing us to actively intervene and consciously stop these subtle attempts at our body's re-regulation. Aside from avoiding all of the stressors that bombard us everyday, it seems like a lot of people benefit from activities like mindful meditation. It can be really helpful to stop and be aware of how you are feeling or what you are doing, which forces you to break the habit of constant movement and expectations. I think by stopping our never-ending thoughts about future expectations is a great start to recognizing our nervous systems level of activation and becoming more aware of those activities/substances that up regulate or down-regulate your system too much.

This type of mindfulness also doesn't need to include meditation. Simply walking and noticing how your feet make contact with the ground, or really being present while doing every day chores can go a long way in providing the presence of mind one needs to begin nervous system re-regulation. I think mindfulness meditation helps because people are able to build a foundation for a calm state during their practice, and then by focusing on these same feelings during a stressful event your nervous system can hopefully recall the same calm state of mind. For example, by sitting in a quiet, peaceful room and focusing on my contact with the floor or my breath, I am constructing a focal point that my nervous system is associating with tranquility and safety. If I do this enough, I should be able to go to this focal point at various times during the day and trigger a similar reaction from my nervous system. Just some thoughts, interesting thread though.

 

[Xisca]

Ahanu, I would love to talk more about this, if you open a topic to talk about this technique; I would like to stay focussed on the freeze response, as I even separate myself from my original general topic about SE.

Yes, it is maybe similar to becoming attached to the peacefull states in meditation were one can get stuck for years. And you are right of course, discharge is just discharge, a release. it doesnt change the mechanisms that made you stuck in the first place.

That needs to be even more precise than this!

Discharge takes place to release excess energy, and this release is what is needed by the ANS to considere an event is over!
Super important.
We are stuck because if this unused energy. We have mecanism when we stay in there because our body is going to use some mecanism even out of place, when another would be better.
We are not really stuck because of the mecanism, but because the cycle does not go to an end.

I meant more that it is not enough. 1st, is all discharged, and all aspects? Often no.
Also, can we stand the release and the relaxed state? Sometimes not, so we do not go there fully.
And, after a discharge, you must integrate and stabilize somehow a new state for the organism. It had not felt like this for long!

The attachment to peacefull states in meditation comes from another reason, which is that it maintains the dissociation.
Remember that dissociation is a useful anaesthesia of something that is to intense to stand.
This is NOT bad at all. What is bad is not to be able to go out of it fully. Enter and go out, enter and go out, like animals, like other animals.

It is also possible to practise meditation in a sensory way, that makes you more present instead of going away.

 

[Xisca]

Thanks for this video and thoughts MBoyd.
You can also see the more general threat, this one being more focussed on freeze.

Anaestesia is a chemically induced freeze state, and the body reacts the same as in any freeze response. The new anestesics for animals that do not allow the trembling are bad. They were made to calm pet owners that did not like to see this, as it is frightening and sad to see. Vet can also give back the pet sooner, as the pet wakes up sooner and looking normal! This shaking is useful.
Yes you are right that our mind is able to stop it, though not able to stop the active automatic defense response (Thanks god!).

But it is not the only possible discharge: you can laugh, which shakes. You can also yawn and sigh.

Mindfulness is a good practise because it is about presence and not about feeling a whole connection to "all". Please 1st connect to you and what you can feel near you before wanting more! A journey starts from where you are, so where your body is and through what it feels.

 

[Regina]

Ha, yeah, this website won't load fully on my computer ….. I was going to agree with you. "How you see your personal past is also determined by how your present health is".

Ray's take on overcoming trauma (from a reader):

Q - "So if someone has experienced a child trauma but also had thyroid problems, could the healing of the thyroid heal the emotional trauma all at once? Or would the person still have to do the work of getting in touch with their feelings about it? I do think feelings are like energy, they can't be stuffed. Could the increased energy from the thyroid bypass the need for direct emotional healing and coming to terms with all the fears and blind spots created by the emotional trauma?"

A - "Yes, no, yes. Nothing is stored, it's like the pasts are all present in the same room, and we periodically have a different perspective on them. When the present balance of stuff, toxicants, euphoriants, etc., is good, you can think and feel what you want to about things." —RP

Ray's answer is so great here. sigh

 

[lollipop]

Ray's answer is so great here. sigh

+1

 

[Xisca]

I do not agree that this answer is good.
It will go awry again whenever you touch to an event that disrupt the balance.
It is very easy to feel ok when everything goes well in life...

Disolve the tensión coming from the past, and the body will reorganize itself without taking any pill. As this is dificult, take pills... but try to do something about trauma, so that your automatic reaction during a new difficult event does not get infuenced by the past!

When Peat says "it's like the pasts are all present in the same room, and we periodically have a different perspective on them.", yes this is right, though it is not a perspective but a body reaction that influences thinking as well as emotions. The physiologic part is the chief, it comes 1st! So the reader's questions are not fully correct, because of the general opinión that emotions are the basis, and htey are not. There is an autonomic reaction at the root of the emotion.

What Peat calls a different perspective is what comes from the past. What you live in the present triggers reactions you had in the past. So your perspective comes from your past experiences!

But of course you need to balance hormones etc, because the 1st thing you have to do in any trauma, is to stop it! Then, there is a snake biting its tail, a cycle turning around, and you can enter the circle to change it from many places....

Do not underestimate the power of the autonomic system, it is the chief.

 

[papaya]

I do not agree that this answer is good.
It will go awry again whenever you touch to an event that disrupt the balance.
It is very easy to feel ok when everything goes well in life...

Disolve the tensión coming from the past, and the body will reorganize itself without taking any pill. As this is dificult, take pills... but try to do something about trauma, so that your automatic reaction during a new difficult event does not get infuenced by the past!

When Peat says "it's like the pasts are all present in the same room, and we periodically have a different perspective on them.", yes this is right, though it is not a perspective but a body reaction that influences thinking as well as emotions. The physiologic part is the chief, it comes 1st! So the reader's questions are not fully correct, because of the general opinión that emotions are the basis, and htey are not. There is an autonomic reaction at the root of the emotion.

What Peat calls a different perspective is what comes from the past. What you live in the present triggers reactions you had in the past. So your perspective comes from your past experiences!

But of course you need to balance hormones etc, because the 1st thing you have to do in any trauma, is to stop it! Then, there is a snake biting its tail, a cycle turning around, and you can enter the circle to change it from many places....

Do not underestimate the power of the autonomic system, it is the chief.

i think that peat was answering the question in terms of if our thyroid & other important hormones are at their optimal levels and balanced. in that sense i do think it made sense & was a good answer, unfortunately our hormones fluctuate so much daily that it's hard to stay in an optimal state, especially during pms! i'd love to try to figure out how to keep hormones optimal/balanced throughout the month, & i also really want to learn/practice these techniques that you all have shared, thank you so much for posting about this xisca!

 

[Xisca]

What does our body is under control of the autonomic nervous system, so whatever betters the ANS betters the global functionning of the body! We are designed so that it Works alone. Of course we can get better with supplements, but any somatic work to clean the nervous system will push the body into the right direction....

 

[lexis]

REM sleep is seriously disturbed in people who suffered traumas

 

[Amazoniac]

@Xisca



"If what you see me doing here makes you cringe and feel uncomfortable, you may need this more than anyone."

Ps.: Imagine Phil viewing this video.

 

[Regina]

@Xisca



"If what you see me doing here makes you cringe and feel uncomfortable, you may need this more than anyone."

Ps.: Imagine Phil viewing this video.

 

[Amazoniac]

if you place a hand directly beneath your nose you should not be able to feel your breath

 

[Diokine]

@Amazoniac

Fanstastic, shake your balls...

 

[Regina]

@Amazoniac

Fanstastic, shake your balls...

wouldn't it be comforting knowing this dude is the father of your children.

 

[Amazoniac]

wouldn't it be comforting knowing this dude is the father of your children.

You have to worry about the silent ones..

 

[Regina]

You have to worry about the silent ones..

True that. You can just hide under the bed when Dad is shakng his balls.