The Freeze Response At The Root Of "learned" Helplessness

[Xisca]

Drareg, this discharge is electric in a way, because the nervous system can be compared to the electric wire, and the discharge is what is done through the EARTH ROD.
the freeze is when the automatics go off, to protect the system from melting with heat.
Flow is when it works smoothly, up and down like sea waves and like all waves. Even sounds and colors are waves.

I can say that the work in somatic experiencing is helping to connect the earth rod, and helping to discharge little by little what would be too much to discharge in one time. reliving and cathartic discharge are too strong and the risk is too high that instead of resolving, the person freezes again.

 

[Drareg]

Drareg, this discharge is electric in a way, because the nervous system can be compared to the electric wire, and the discharge is what is done through the EARTH ROD.
the freeze is when the automatics go off, to protect the system from melting with heat.
Flow is when it works smoothly, up and down like sea waves and like all waves. Even sounds and colors are waves.

I can say that the work in somatic experiencing is helping to connect the earth rod, and helping to discharge little by little what would be too much to discharge in one time. reliving and cathartic discharge are too strong and the risk is too high that instead of resolving, the person freezes again.

A better structure will allow for more flow, electric wire and electricity practices are not as good or efficient as they could be. If they had better structure we would get more from them.
Water in biological cells attached to protein is highly coherent and efficient for electricty to travel,they also can adapt to take more ,with this they can adapt to take less.

A highly intelligent person will have no issue comprehend new truths/ideas/information whereas a less intelligent person could freeze with similar information,they can't adapt.

 

[Xisca]

An intelligent person will freeze the same in danger.
If you talk about taking new ideas, then there can be a freeze reaction when it is too much. But then it is only one situation.

i know someone who recovered from some difficult issues, until i found him in a situation that he froze again.
He was still frozen for PART of the situation.
And he is very strong for the parts he recovered from. Which does not make him more aware of the part that is frozen...
It is possible to freeze in SOME situations, and the dissociation is BETWEEN something and something.

 

[mangoes]

This is all fascinating but what do I actually have to do to actually discharge the negative energy?

 

[Xisca]

This is all what we learn in the course, and Levine explains part of it in his books, and I have just seen in the topic I started about SE that there are some videos. When it has been frozen, you need to activate it a little before you can discharge anything.

Then, maybe my best answer would be that you do not have to do more than let your body do it, by the felt sense, and do not disrupt it with your mind.

At the beginning, I think that SE is great for understanding how it works, so that we can let ourselves complete the cicle after any arousal. The discharge is what happens when you have to stop driving to relax the tension and you are shaking it.

But i would not say that it is negative energy. It was very useful but has just become useless to keep activated.

 

[Makrosky]

2) Trembling is not the only way to discharged unused energy after a stressing moment.

Hi Xisca,

Care to share other methods you've tried and think are effective ?

Cheers

 

[Xisca]

Hi Makrosky,
Well, I know SE, and know a little TRE, and they share the trembling, but you can discharge without trembling. For example laughing, which is a sort of trembling after all... Then the soft discharge can happen through sighs and yawns.

The difference between TRE and SE is in the way to provoque the trembling. TRE use exercises that are the same for all, and SE uses the personal situation, knowing that the activation is already in the body, you just have to reactivate it a little, just enough, and surely not too much
...or else you go back to freeze.
It is like ice melting on earth, better if it happens not to quickly.

TRE is cheeper, good on self use, good for groups, easy, but less focussed or specific, and IMO not enough, according to the trauma.
I also know some people who got trembling discharge with shia-tsu, the problem being that it was feeling strange for the person because they do not say that it can happen, and do not explain what it is. They just told her to let it happen and that it was fine.

 

[Ahanu]

I found TRE a very easy way to discharge. You dont even have to do the exercises after the first time. Just have the intention to let your body tremble and off it goes :)

 

[Ledo]

Thanks @Xisca ,

Do you know if freezing or helplessness in humans can be dealt with using these methods if the "threat " or activation event is not totally over, for instance in a case of on going trauma such as long court battle or other trying psychological pressure. Must all the trauma event be over or is it possible to reframe the event and get a release anyway and move on?

 

[Xisca]

I found TRE a very easy way to discharge. You dont even have to do the exercises after the first time. Just have the intention to let your body tremble and off it goes :)

That is right, and I can do it also thanks to the course of somatic experiencing.
I have to check out the usefulness of this..... How far and the limits.

When there is a real switch, a profound change, I can feel more than discharge, there is a recovery of energy, of most of all, and good and interesting: things that change around without doing anything special!

 

[Xisca]

Thanks @Xisca ,

Do you know if freezing or helplessness in humans can be dealt with using these methods if the "threat " or activation event is not totally over, for instance in a case of on going trauma such as long court battle or other trying psychological pressure. Must all the trauma event be over or is it possible to reframe the event and get a release anyway and move on?

Ledo, your question is challenging to me because I have the same.
I actually live in a stress I have to stand, because of the sort of violence of the people were I live for 5 years now. It is an island and the feeling for me is like we hear about the mafia in Sicilia. You have to pay and keep quiet or they hurt you.
This is a permanent threat people have to surrender to.
Some people also have this when working for non profit organisations, when they have to give part of the money they receive fromdonators to any kind of local mafia....
This topic is in many films because many people live in long term traumatic environment.

Most people stay in balance by seeing the nicest part and freezing the other! So the people in NGO focus on the money left that they can use for their goal. The mafia can bring some advantages, and we all try to see the best of what governments do with the money taxes steal from us!!!!!

When I feel bullied by mason workers, when they abuse in the slow working and doing the least they can, I must focus on the fact that what they do is the important thing..... When it is too much, now I fire them right away. I know that anyway they would go if they feel caught because I tell them I see what they do.

My real answer for the moment is that you can still do something because the real reason for being in a present situation can very probably be from another similar event, I mean a similar back stage.

It is so incredible that I have chosen a place to live, which takes me to what I have to heal in myself.

 

[Xisca]

The strong power of freeze is this one:

The nervous system will never stop to want to discharge, and will find ways to put you in the right situation as long as you do not succeed at discharging.

It looks for similar stress, in the hope to ACT DIFFERENTLY than in the original trauma, or it will just want to ACT, if this was something that could not be completed.

 

[Xisca]

I have another bit of partial answer to Ledo's question: people usually use gathering and sustaining one another during challenging periods.
This is automatic when several persons share the same problem at the same time.

The problem is when you cannot be supported. It can be because you are isolated, or because people do not share the same stress, or think that you do not suffer as much as you actually do.

When things are not automatic, then it is interresting to know how this works, so that it can be established on porpose.
Technically, this is called SOCIAL ENGAGEMENT, and this is the central point of Steven Porges work, that resulted in the polyvagal theory.

Social engagement uses the same vagal system as freeze, which is the root of helplessness.
So, social engagement is what allows to stand a stressfull event longer than alone.

But social engagement capacity is not the same for all persons, because it is damaged especially by early traumas and when the mother was not herself strong in this part of her system (which is not ready to work alone before 6 months of age). This is the idea you can find in the article someone published in the forum about apes not living as long as others when they lost their mother.

 

[Xisca]

I found TRE a very easy way to discharge. You dont even have to do the exercises after the first time. Just have the intention to let your body tremble and off it goes :)

I also have some more bits to share here: shaking is a good release, but there are other parts that act afterward. Chronic activation mobilises some vital energy out of daily life, and after discharging this energy, it needs to be re-integrated into the main stream of life energy. This is called integration and organisation. Then the new state needs to stabilize.

You get the same in osteopathic work: it needs to settle during a few days before you use again fully the treated part. You can spoil the body work if you do not let some time for the system to stabilize.

 

[mangoes]

Thanks @Xisca sorry I only just saw your reply. I'll look into the activation part of SE.

 

[Ahanu]

This is called integration and organisation.

I am sure there are a lot of helpful techniques for that. For all the techniques i have practised i found the Alexander-Technique outstanding in terms of organising the energy our organisms.

 

[Makrosky]

I am sure there are a lot of helpful techniques for that. For all the techniques i have practised i found the Alexander-Technique outstanding in terms of organising the energy our organisms.

Would you care to elaborate a bit more on the Alexander technique ? Why do you say it organises the energy ???

I'm very interested

 

[Ahanu]

Would you care to elaborate a bit more on the Alexander technique ? Why do you say it organises the energy ???

I'm very interested :)

yes, let me try to elaborate:
because it`s main concern is our responses to stimuli and because we respond all the time the alexander technique is closely related to the distribution of our energy and so to the organization of our energy. (Please note that in the AT energy is not part of an esoteric concept. (eg to lift an arm you use energy, the act of thinking uses energy) so i am talking about the energy our body produces through nutrition etz..

So for example: a child sitting perfectly poised uses its energy very efficiently. the muscles are working according to the structure of the whole organism. Not to much, not to less. the tone is adjusted according to the task. for some reasons over time we developed (apart from very usefull habits) also habits that interfere with this efficiently distribution of energy.

Take a chronic slumped posture for example. in such a case we have lost the ability to organize our energy very well and we may suffer because of it. in the alexander technique this is not just a "postural" problem. It is a problem of the whole self. For various reasons:
The kinesthetic sense at that time will also have changed and so one can no longer rely on it. but because we almost ever act and move the way it "feels" right we will never be able to change such a habit. the urge to rely on the felt sense is too big. so to resolve this inefficently organisation there need to be also a change in the senses and very also very important in the way we think. We always think or better say direct energy through what we call thinking.

so after 10 years of meditation and practising also different techniques like buteyko, tai chi, yoga, pyschotherapy, physiotherapy, TRE, and some more the alexander technique has its absolutely unique approach to me. BUT it is far away from a quick fix or a pill for all.
It just deals with a very important aspect of life that till now is a little bit overlooked.

i hope i could explain it a bit

 

[Makrosky]

yes, let me try to elaborate:
because it`s main concern is our responses to stimuli and because we respond all the time the alexander technique is closely related to the distribution of our energy and so to the organization of our energy. (Please note that in the AT energy is not part of an esoteric concept. (eg to lift an arm you use energy, the act of thinking uses energy) so i am talking about the energy our body produces through nutrition etz..

So for example: a child sitting perfectly poised uses its energy very efficiently. the muscles are working according to the structure of the whole organism. Not to much, not to less. the tone is adjusted according to the task. for some reasons over time we developed (apart from very usefull habits) also habits that interfere with this efficiently distribution of energy.

Take a chronic slumped posture for example. in such a case we have lost the ability to organize our energy very well and we may suffer because of it. in the alexander technique this is not just a "postural" problem. It is a problem of the whole self. For various reasons:
The kinesthetic sense at that time will also have changed and so one can no longer rely on it. but because we almost ever act and move the way it "feels" right we will never be able to change such a habit. the urge to rely on the felt sense is too big. so to resolve this inefficently organisation there need to be also a change in the senses and very also very important in the way we think. We always think or better say direct energy through what we call thinking.

so after 10 years of meditation and practising also different techniques like buteyko, tai chi, yoga, pyschotherapy, physiotherapy, TRE, and some more the alexander technique has its absolutely unique approach to me. BUT it is far away from a quick fix or a pill for all.
It just deals with a very important aspect of life that till now is a little bit overlooked.

i hope i could explain it a bit

Wow, thanks mate!!! What is it in practical terms though ? Like how does a typical AT exercise look like ???

 

[Xisca]

Ahanu, integration correspond to what has changed JUST IN THE MOMENT. So it is done just after the change, the sooner the better, and it has to do with the "waves" of activation / relaxation.

When there was a freeze response, the energy of the activation was not gone. When it goes away by discharge, this energy is available again for life, and we have to reintegrate it, or welcome it, in our current of life energy.

I do agree that many techniques do this, but without naming very precisely what is going on at the nervous system level. You can also use ways to explain by the hormones shift etc, more chimically, but then it is complicated, and you do not feel it in your body, it is more a mind understanding.

In terms of eastern ways, it correspond to expansion sensations, and you find this in meditation, tai-chi etc.
When you know and feel, then you know the importance to let it happen fully.