The first time I've been concerned about Covid and not being vaccinated

Lee Simeon

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Interesting that the infection rates are 300% higher now than what they were a year ago when there was no vaccine. I know what that says to me.
Infections rate is not that important, its more important to prevent deaths rather than infections
 

Lee Simeon

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Who sponsors you?

Do you also know that many people died shortly after the administration of the vaccine I suppose ?!

It is interesting that this is your first message and you have been on the forum for 3-4 years, the first message in which you encourage people to get vaccinated! Suspicious...
Not everyone who disagrees with you is getting paid
 

Peatogenic

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Your semantics approach is breathtaking. It's like playing tag with a kid who won't sit out because "you never touched him." Even though he's been tagged like 50 times.

I expressed concern about the story of more unvaccinated people dying than vaccinated. And the replies were largely about how the entire pandemic is fraudulent, how testing is fraudulent, how vaccines aren't safe, etc. Sometimes in a condescending tone. All things which I already believe.

What I've gathered is that that story claim can't really be concretely refuted because none of us know what the numbers actually are in the U.S. nevertheless, it's all I seem to encounter lately from multiple media outlets, podcasts, etc....that it's 'abundantly clear' that the unvaccinated are dying more than the vaccinated.

Maybe my systematic approach is confusing to you? It's not as if anyone has demonstrated that in the U.S. the unvaccinated are *not* dying more from hospitalized Covid than the vaccinated. And then this gets interpreted as me trusting the CDC, wanting to get the vaccine, etc. When in reality I'm just trying to be systematic. At least more systematic than our policymakers and media outlets. I thought being systematic was the rule here regarding the pandemic.

For some members it turned into this cult-y and defensive thing of needing to defend a contrarian narrative which I wasn't even questioning.
 
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Inaut

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You need to find out who is being intubated, it’s possible they are not intubating the vaccinated.
Intubation is what causes death spikes, also nursing home neglect of the vulnerable.
This happened to my grandfather in the nursing home. He apparently tested positive for covid during an outbreak in the nursing home he was staying in. Nursing staff declined coming in to work for 3 days and a bunch of eradic measures were taken within the facility. I think that because he wasn’t getting proper care for 3 days and his medications were missed, he died because of neglect and malpractice. Also, they ended up turning off the ventilation because they thought it was spreading through the hvac system.... Nobody was allowed into the nursing home during the outbreak so for all I know they could have been doing much worse to him... Around that time 100 residents passed away. Sounds like the devil to me.
 

Perry Staltic

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Maybe my systematic approach is confusing to you? It's not as if anyone has demonstrated that in the U.S. the unvaccinated are *not* dying more from hospitalized Covid than the vaccinated. And then this gets interpreted as me trusting the CDC, wanting to get the vaccine, etc. When in reality I'm just trying to be systematic. At least more systematic than our policymakers and media outlets. I thought being systematic was the rule here regarding the pandemic.

I understand your need for purity and certainty, but you will never have such when crooks control the data. You have to learn to navigate by other means or you will be in a forever state of uncertainty. That's what they want because that's their power.
 

Peatogenic

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I understand your need for purity and certainty, but you will never have such when crooks control the data. You have to learn to navigate by other means or you will be in a forever state of uncertainty. That's what they want because that's their power.

Not to be rude, but I don't think you have the capacity to understand what I'm saying or my viewpoint. If you think I'm looking for certainty then you just simply don't understand anything I've communicated.

Also not to be rude, but can you please take your authoritarian impulses to a different thread and stop telling me my philosophy/approach/viewpoint is wrong?
 

Perry Staltic

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Not to be rude, but I don't think you have the capacity to understand what I'm saying or my viewpoint. If you think I'm looking for certainty then you just simply don't understand anything I've communicated.

Also not to be rude, but can you please take your authoritarian impulses to a different thread and stop telling me my philosophy/approach/viewpoint is wrong?

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it's unproductive. I think I'm pretty capable of understanding your viewpoint - if you can articulate it coherently. Usually when someone can't they really don't understand well what they think they understand.
 

Peatogenic

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I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm saying it's unproductive. I think I'm pretty capable of understanding your viewpoint - if you can articulate it coherently. Usually when someone can't they really don't understand well what they think they understand.

Saying it's unproductive is also an authoritarian impulse. And just because you've presumed me to be saying something and I haven't preemptively described my approach in full does not mean that I don't have a coherent approach.

It's ok if what I'm doing here doesn't resonate with you or make sense or seem like the right approach. I'm not trying to persuade you to have my approach.
 

Perry Staltic

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Saying it's unproductive is also an authoritarian impulse. And just because you've presumed me to be saying something and I haven't preemptively described my approach in full does not mean that I don't have a coherent approach.

It's ok if what I'm doing here doesn't resonate with you or make sense or seem like the right approach. I'm not trying to persuade you to have my approach.

Truth is authoritative.
 

Perry Staltic

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And it's an authoritarian impulse to extend your belief to saying people must process the world the way you do.

You are free to process the world however you see fit, but it's an act of love to warn people when they are in violation of truth's laws, because the results are never good when you wander off into your own little illusory world.
 

Peatogenic

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You are free to process the world however you see fit, but it's an act of love to warn people when they are in violation of truth's laws, because the results are never good when you wander off into your own little illusory world.

Oh ok, I didn't realize you've been trying to warn me out of love. Thank you.
 

Mito

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...are the recent reports of the states with the lowest vaccination rates have highest Covid deaths. Has anyone found issues with this data so far? I've not been afraid by a single media story since the start of the pandemic till this one.
The United Kingdom and Israel were hit with the Delta variant earlier than the United States so you will likely get a better picture of Delta’s impact looking at their data. There is no reason to think that data will not eventually look the same in the US.
View: https://twitter.com/chrismasterjohn/status/1436445073193975817?s=21

View: https://twitter.com/chrismasterjohn/status/1436446108549586946?s=21


Look at the data in this chart below (this is in California). You can see that even though the % vaccination is increasing each month, the vaccinated symptomatic workers increased dramatically in July.
36150626-369D-4CC3-97C2-24816DC184D4.jpeg
 

Ben.

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Maybe my systematic approach is confusing to you? It's not as if anyone has demonstrated that in the U.S. the unvaccinated are *not* dying more from hospitalized Covid than the vaccinated.


Could you outline your approach in detail? Checking different media outlets, goverment statistics and podcasts, piecing it together will only bring you so far, might even end up in you running into a deadend and doubting your own eyes/experiences.

Ofcourse unvaccinated are dying, so are vaccinated. By what has to be figured out by individual case basis, which is not done. Knowing this, why take these claims or graphs at face value? People constantly die without ever finding out why or how exactly. The reality is, at the end someone wrote "heartfailure" or "covid" on the death certificate and that ends up in a statistic/graph, shaping medical and political decisions eventho the actual cause that preceeded them needs to be adressed. I think most of us know here that causes of deaths are more complex than what the media or a medication salesmen in a white coat tells you.



I expressed concern about the story of more unvaccinated people dying than vaccinated. And the replies were largely about how the entire pandemic is fraudulent, how testing is fraudulent, how vaccines aren't safe, etc. Sometimes in a condescending tone. All things which I already believe.

What I've gathered is that that story claim can't really be concretely refuted because none of us know what the numbers actually are in the U.S. nevertheless, it's all I seem to encounter lately from multiple media outlets, podcasts, etc....that it's 'abundantly clear' that the unvaccinated are dying more than the vaccinated.


There is no actual data portraying "reality" because theres to many factors, both known and unknown that are involved. You will find data that agrees and disagrees with either narrative. Therefore it cannot be abundantly clear. Hunting graphs, knowing the information displayed is acquired wrongly in the first place sounds like a huge waste of time.

You say you know the information is fraudulent yet need people here for evidence why that is. Kind of a Oxymoron and also almost impossible to do. Tankasnowgod said it right, its just a claim which can be met with a counterclaim. The big issue is that society allowed claims which were accompanied by deceiving data to put the world upside down.

Imo not letting news or numbers get to you is the best course of action. Everything else is just needless arguing while the whole game keeps on rolling.

Not everyone was condecending, but actually trying to help you to calm your mind because thats actually something people can do, dismantling authoritharian made up numbers and narratives in the way you want them to, most of us cannot ...
 

Mito

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what do you have to loose?
I suspect that the majority of people choosing not to get the COVID vaccine are concerned about the longer term risks to their health span because no one knows what they might be. There is a lot of data available on the mortality risk of COVID by age and pre-existing comorbidity so each individual can make some judgement on their risk. If you look at other studies on COVID disease risk such as the Vitamin D correlation, you can refine your individual risk judgement further.
 

Peatogenic

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Could you outline your approach in detail? Checking different media outlets, goverment statistics and podcasts, piecing it together will only bring you so far, might even end up in you running into a deadend and doubting your own eyes/experiences.

Ofcourse unvaccinated are dying, so are vaccinated. By what has to be figured out by individual case basis, which is not done. Knowing this, why take these claims or graphs at face value? People constantly die without ever finding out why or how exactly. The reality is, at the end someone wrote "heartfailure" or "covid" on the death certificate and that ends up in a statistic/graph, shaping medical and political decisions eventho the actual cause that preceeded them needs to be adressed. I think most of us know here that causes of deaths are more complex than what the media or a medication salesmen in a white coat tells you.






There is no actual data portraying "reality" because theres to many factors, both known and unknown that are involved. You will find data that agrees and disagrees with either narrative. Therefore it cannot be abundantly clear. Hunting graphs, knowing the information displayed is acquired wrongly in the first place sounds like a huge waste of time.

You say you know the information is fraudulent yet need people here for evidence why that is. Kind of a Oxymoron and also almost impossible to do. Tankasnowgod said it right, its just a claim which can be met with a counterclaim. The big issue is that society allowed claims which were accompanied by deceiving data to put the world upside down.

Imo not letting news or numbers get to you is the best course of action. Everything else is just needless arguing while the whole game keeps on rolling.

Not everyone was condecending, but actually trying to help you to calm your mind because thats actually something people can do, dismantling authoritharian made up numbers and narratives in the way you want them to, most of us cannot ...

I was never expecting a graph that spelled everything out or was abundantly clear. I've been on this forum since 2017 and came yesterday calmly expressing concern about a specific variable. It turned into a major event. And nothing you say here that I've said is anything I've said anywhere throughout the thread.
 
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