The Fire Rises

[Kyle M]

Stalin was Jesuit trained as well. They control all sides.

“It is my opinion that if the liberties of this country – the United States of America – are destroyed, it will be by the subtlety of the Roman Catholic Jesuit priests, for they are the most crafty, dangerous enemies to civil and religious liberty. They have instigated MOST of the wars of Europe.” Marquis de LaFayette
FAMOUS QUOTES ABOUT THE JESUIT ORDER

The stuff you post seems to me, and if other's reactions are an indication, impenetrable. That is to say that there is no point of discussion to be had. The amount of unexamined and evidence free (outside of "articles") premise that you bring into these arguments makes them impossible to have. Even to the point of surrealism. I might say "the petro dollar allows the US to maintain value of their fiat currency" and your response is "muh Jesuits, Papal families, European elites." As if those two things are mutually exclusive. It's like any sentence that doesn't start with "Jesuits" triggers you to respond with a sentence that does.

You know, even if the Jesuits run everything, they still have to follow the laws of economics. Supply and demand. If they didn't, then why would they bother dominating the world, they could just magically conjure the things they want and not have to obtain an accepted currency to get them.

 

[x-ray peat]

Printed money means nothing if there isn't demand for it. Controlling petroleum reserves, making the largest reserves tradable only in USD, provides that demand.

You are completely missing the point. Of course maintenance of the Petrodollar regime and the propping up of the dollar is one of their tactics but it is not the end goal in itself. If you think these people are driven solely by money then you really don’t have a clue what their goal is and will continue to be baffled when they do things that actually lose them money, like giving billions away to Iran.

 

[x-ray peat]

The stuff you post seems to me, and if other's reactions are an indication, impenetrable. That is to say that there is no point of discussion to be had. The amount of unexamined and evidence free (outside of "articles") premise that you bring into these arguments makes them impossible to have. Even to the point of surrealism. I might say "the petro dollar allows the US to maintain value of their fiat currency" and your response is "muh Jesuits, Papal families, European elites." As if those two things are mutually exclusive. It's like any sentence that doesn't start with "Jesuits" triggers you to respond with a sentence that does.

You know, even if the Jesuits run everything, they still have to follow the laws of economics. Supply and demand. If they didn't, then why would they bother dominating the world, they could just magically conjure the things they want and not have to obtain an accepted currency to get them.

Like the proverbial drunk man looking for his keys under the streetlight, you refuse to look outside of you knowledge base and comfort zone because it's too difficult. Again no one is arguing that economics don’t apply but of course continually bringing up petrodollars and “muh” Jews is a lot easier than actually trying to learn something new.

 

[Kyle M]

You are completely missing the point. Of course maintenance of the Petrodollar regime and the propping up of the dollar is one of their tactics but it is not the end goal in itself. If you think these people are driven solely by money then you really don’t have a clue what their goal is and will continue to be baffled when they do things that actually lose them money, like giving billions away to Iran.

I didn't say it was the end goal, it's the means. The end goal is to be able to do what they want, just like anyone. People don't go to work to go to work, they go to work to make money to use how they wish. Giving money to other nations isn't losing money, it's buying something. Iran is not getting much money from the USA lol, they are an oil-exporter. Gamblers lose money, but it's not really a loss when the point is the thrill of the gamble and the chance at making more if your gamble pays off.

 

[Kyle M]

Like the proverbial drunk man looking for his keys under the streetlight, you refuse to look outside of you knowledge base and comfort zone because it's too difficult. Again no one is arguing that economics don’t apply but of course continually bringing up petrodollars and “muh” Jews is a lot easier than actually trying to learn something new.

How do you think I came to Ray Peat's ideas (while doing a PhD in biomedical science, give that a try and see what your peers think of you reading his stuff), anarcho-capitalism, and other philosophies if I am not looking outside of my knowledge base and comfort zone? Do you think I was born with these beliefs and ideas? I was a communist in high school, and a vegan in college. I think I come across much more open than you do vis a vis ideas. And I don't come across very open lol, but you're shut up tight like you're trying to make a pearl in there.

 

[Kyle M]

Is any of this untrue?

 

[x-ray peat]

I didn't say it was the end goal, it's the means. The end goal is to be able to do what they want, just like anyone. People don't go to work to go to work, they go to work to make money to use how they wish. Giving money to other nations isn't losing money, it's buying something. Iran is not getting much money from the USA lol, they are an oil-exporter. Gamblers lose money, but it's not really a loss when the point is the thrill of the gamble and the chance at making more if your gamble pays off.

No you said, "The petro-dollar thesis explains foreign policy decisions better than any other explanation." Sorry it doesn't. For example it doesn't explain why Obama loosened sanctions against Iran, gave them a pathway to the bomb and sent them almost 30 billion dollars since Iran has been trying to subvert the Petrodollar for the last 20 years. It also doesn’t explain why Obama abandoned Iraq, left all our equipment there to supply ISIS and then basically ignored them while they rampaged through the area. If you understood the end goal and who is driving the agenda you would not think petrodollars is still the determinant factor in any of this. BTW the petrodollar game is coming to an end by design.​

 

[x-ray peat]

How do you think I came to Ray Peat's ideas (while doing a PhD in biomedical science, give that a try and see what your peers think of you reading his stuff), anarcho-capitalism, and other philosophies if I am not looking outside of my knowledge base and comfort zone? Do you think I was born with these beliefs and ideas? I was a communist in high school, and a vegan in college. I think I come across much more open than you do vis a vis ideas. And I don't come across very open lol, but you're shut up tight like you're trying to make a pearl in there.

Your public self-soothing is quite touching.

 

[x-ray peat]

Is any of this untrue?

Seriously? This uninformed and under-educated RT propagandist is your source for Middle East understanding? She openly admits she didn’t know anything about the situation until going there. So what she is reporting is basically the lies that her Palestinian handlers fed her and nothing more. You ask what is untrue; well in the first minute alone I couldn't find anything that was true.
- Nobody arrests you for holding a Palestinian Flag . This is pure idiocy
- Showing pictures of martyrs is not illegal and they don't arrest you for that. The PA names streets after terrorists and pays bonuses and lifetime salaries to their families
- Israel doesn’t torture children though the PA may as they are known to be vicious to anyone they suspect of collaborating with Israel.

Listening to her on the Middle East is like listening to an economics lecture from an Occupy Wall Street marcher. Its no wonder your beliefs are so fickle if she is typical of your sources.​

 

[Kyle M]

No you said, "The petro-dollar thesis explains foreign policy decisions better than any other explanation." Sorry it doesn't. For example it doesn't explain why Obama loosened sanctions against Iran, gave them a pathway to the bomb and sent them almost 30 billion dollars since Iran has been trying to subvert the Petrodollar for the last 20 years. It also doesn’t explain why Obama abandoned Iraq, left all our equipment there to supply ISIS and then basically ignored them while they rampaged through the area. If you understood the end goal and who is driving the agenda you would not think petrodollars is still the determinant factor in any of this. BTW the petrodollar game is coming to an end by design.

If you think about it actually it can. The state isn't a monolithic institution, and Obama may very well have been less of a petro-dollar guy than, say, Hillary Clinton.

As far as Iran, they weren't "given 30 billion dollars." That is an extremely dishonest statement that you should be ashamed to make. That was their money that was being held in an act of war by the US, and was simply unfrozen and allowed to be taken back. If I walk up and beat you up and take your wallet, and then 5 years later give it back, I didn't "give you" your wallet. Spin like this makes you very hard to take seriously, you are destroying your credibility as sincere and honest. I say that not as an insult, but almost as advice, people aren't going to listen to you if you lie like that.

Iran and the bomb - neoconservatives and Israel sycophants like yourself have been saying they were 5 years away from the bomb for 2 or 3 decades now. I put that kind of nonsense in the same category as climate catastrophe predictions, both in their obvious incorrectness but also in their political expediency for the people making the claim. In this case, pro-Israel people can try to justify actions against Iran with this specter of nuclear weapons, just like they used WMDs to justify invading Iraq, 9/11 to justify invading Afghanistan, etc.

The US left stuff for ISIS because they want ISIS to use it. ISIS is the CIA in the Middle East. Why would you believe that the people who lied the nation into invading Iraq are telling the truth about their intentions with that war? Again, you seem to only see what you want to see, believing leaders when it fits your narrative and not believing those same leaders when it doesn't. You need some other information for these assessments other than your love of Israel.

Your stuff is so vague and mysterious at this point I can only see it as shitposting. Ok fine, Jesuits set up the petro-dollar to go after the kikes in Israel and then have a predetermined end to that system that you know what it is and when it's coming but won't say it here to put your information and predictions to the test. Sounds about right.

 

[Kyle M]

Seriously? This uninformed and under-educated RT propagandist is your source for Middle East understanding? She openly admits she didn’t know anything about the situation until going there. So what she is reporting is basically the lies that her Palestinian handlers fed her and nothing more. You ask what is untrue; well in the first minute alone I couldn't find anything that was true.
- Nobody arrests you for holding a Palestinian Flag . This is pure idiocy
- Showing pictures of martyrs is not illegal and they don't arrest you for that. The PA names streets after terrorists and pays bonuses and lifetime salaries to their families
- Israel doesn’t torture children though the PA may as they are known to be vicious to anyone they suspect of collaborating with Israel.

Listening to her on the Middle East is like listening to an economics lecture from an Occupy Wall Street marcher. Its no wonder your beliefs are so fickle if she is typical of your sources.​

She isn't my source, I just saw this video and was curious if you could confirm anything isn't true. If she said she was physically there and witnessing some of the stuff you say isn't true, what is your evidence to the contrary? She is kind of dumb tbh but when someone says they saw something, I need something other than your word (which has lost all credibility to me after you keep repeating Iran was "given" $30 billion).

 

[x-ray peat]

If you think about it actually it can. The state isn't a monolithic institution, and Obama may very well have been less of a petro-dollar guy than, say, Hillary Clinton.

As far as Iran, they weren't "given 30 billion dollars." That is an extremely dishonest statement that you should be ashamed to make. That was their money that was being held in an act of war by the US, and was simply unfrozen and allowed to be taken back. If I walk up and beat you up and take your wallet, and then 5 years later give it back, I didn't "give you" your wallet. Spin like this makes you very hard to take seriously, you are destroying your credibility as sincere and honest. I say that not as an insult, but almost as advice, people aren't going to listen to you if you lie like that.

Iran and the bomb - neoconservatives and Israel sycophants like yourself have been saying they were 5 years away from the bomb for 2 or 3 decades now. I put that kind of nonsense in the same category as climate catastrophe predictions, both in their obvious incorrectness but also in their political expediency for the people making the claim. In this case, pro-Israel people can try to justify actions against Iran with this specter of nuclear weapons, just like they used WMDs to justify invading Iraq, 9/11 to justify invading Afghanistan, etc.

The US left stuff for ISIS because they want ISIS to use it. ISIS is the CIA in the Middle East. Why would you believe that the people who lied the nation into invading Iraq are telling the truth about their intentions with that war? Again, you seem to only see what you want to see, believing leaders when it fits your narrative and not believing those same leaders when it doesn't. You need some other information for these assessments other than your love of Israel.

Your stuff is so vague and mysterious at this point I can only see it as shitposting. Ok fine, Jesuits set up the petro-dollar to go after the kikes in Israel and then have a predetermined end to that system that you know what it is and when it's coming but won't say it here to put your information and predictions to the test. Sounds about right.

You know nothing John Snow. I think I'm done here.

 

[Kyle M]

You know nothing John Snow. I think I'm done here.

Dude you're a liar. Address the Iranian money lie.

 

[x-ray peat]

Dude you're a liar. Address the Iranian money lie.

You really shouldn't take these forums so seriously nor get so nasty all the time.
The Iranian money was not stolen by us nor was it an arbitrary act of war, It was frozen when the Ayatollah overthrew the Iranian government and took our Embassy hostage. That was an act of war. The sanctions continued for so long because Iran has continually engaged in state sponsored terrorism throughout the world. That money was supposed to be kept frozen until Iran stopped supporting terrorism which they clearly have not. Obama sending them cash only further helps Iran support terrorism. So yes Obama gave them 30 Billion dollars without any preconditions that they would stop supporting terrorism. A rogue state like a criminal is not entitled to anything.

 

[Kyle M]

You really shouldn't take these forums so seriously nor get so nasty all the time.
The Iranian money was not stolen by us nor was it an arbitrary act of war, It was frozen when the Ayatollah overthrew the Iranian government and took our Embassy hostage. That was an act of war. The sanctions continued for so long because Iran has continually engaged in state sponsor terrorism throughout the world. That money was supposed to be kept frozen until Iran stopped supporting terrorism which they clearly have not. Obama sending them cash only further helps Iran support terrorism. So yes Obama gave them 30 Billion dollars without any preconditions that they would stop supporting terrorism. A rouge state like a criminal is not entitled to anything.

Yeah ok take the high horse about how above it all you are. Saying someone "gave money" to someone else DOES NOT ever refer to allowing that person to get their money back.

What terrorism does Iran sponsor? If that was the reason for not allowing them to have their money, why doesn't it apply to Saudi Arabia, the #1 state sponsor of terrorism?

Sending them cash...giving them $30 billion...rogue state...you say things that twist the truth on purpose to fit your narrative of hating Iran and loving Israel. You would never use those terms to describe the exact same aspects of Israel if they applied.

 

[x-ray peat]

Yeah ok take the high horse about how above it all you are. Saying someone "gave money" to someone else DOES NOT ever refer to allowing that person to get their money back.

What terrorism does Iran sponsor? If that was the reason for not allowing them to have their money, why doesn't it apply to Saudi Arabia, the #1 state sponsor of terrorism?

Sending them cash...giving them $30 billion...rogue state...you say things that twist the truth on purpose to fit your narrative of hating Iran and loving Israel. You would never use those terms to describe the exact same aspects of Israel if they applied.

It would be nice if you would inform yourself a bit more before you engage in these endless debates. State Department report finds Iran is top state sponsor of terror - CNNPolitics
OK this time I am really done, John Snow.

 

[Kyle M]

It would be nice if you would inform yourself a bit more before you engage in these endless debates. State Department report finds Iran is top state sponsor of terror - CNNPolitics
OK this time I am really done, John Snow.

CNN? State Department? Are those different than the guys who said Iraq WMDs were a slam dunk? That we would be greeted as liberators? That never EVER talk about Saudi terrorism, beheading political opponents, etc.?

If I'm Jon Snow, you're Little Finger, using misinformation and manipulation.

 

[Badger]

The State Dept report accusing Iran as top exporter of terrorism is preposterous. That honor goes to Saudi Arabia, our ally (my emphasis below):

"How do the Saudis promote their religious views?
By investing heavily in building mosques, madrasas, schools, and Sunni cultural centers across the Muslim world. Indian intelligence says that in India alone, from 2011 to 2013, some 25,000 Saudi clerics arrived bearing more than $250 million to build mosques and universities and hold seminars. "We are talking about thousands and thousands of activist organizations and preachers who are in the Saudi sphere of influence," said Usama Hasan, a researcher in Islamic studies. These institutions and clerics preach the specifically Saudi version of Sunni Islam, the extreme fundamentalist strain known as Wahhabism or Salafism.
How Saudi Arabia exports radical Islam
How Saudi Arabia exports radical Islam

A new investigative report reveals that hundreds of Saudi and Kuwaiti nationals residing in the United States -- many of them students with dual citizenship and receiving government scholarships -- have joined ISIS and other terrorist groups in Syria and Iraq during the past three years. Titled "From American Campuses to ISIS Camps: How Hundreds of Saudis Joined ISIS in the U.S.," the report -- released June 1 by the Washington-D.C.-based think tank the Institute for Gulf Affairs (IGA) -- provides details of the flow of students leaving American institutions of higher learning to fight in the Middle East. According to a 2016 working paper produced by the National Bureau of Economic Research, Saudi Arabia is the second largest source of ISIS fighters from Muslim-majority countries, with an estimated 2,500. If the IGA report is accurate, a whopping 16% of these fighters were in the U.S. when they joined ISIS. An equally disturbing finding of the report is that the Saudi government, which has been monitoring its nationals in the U.S., is fully aware of the fact that many of them are joining ISIS and not only has done little to stop it, but has kept information about it from American authorities. This completely contradicts the 2014 State Department assertion that "Saudi Arabia has continued to cooperate with the United States to prevent acts of terrorism ... through information exchange agreements with the United States...The number of Saudi students in the United States in 2016 reached 125,000, the "most in the world," according to a June 14 Arab News report. Those who leave to join a terrorist group and subsequently return -- enabled by their U.S. citizenship, combined with lax monitoring of and leniency with them -- present a clear and present danger to America's home front.
Washington Ignores Saudi "Involvement in Supporting Terrorism and Terrorist Groups"
Washington Ignores Saudi "Involvement in Supporting Terrorism and Terrorist Groups"

"The group estimates that the Saudi government and charities spent an estimated $4 billion exporting Saudi Arabia’s strict interpretation of Islam, known as Wahhabism, worldwide in 2015, up from $2 billion in 2007. In 2015, there were 110 mosques in the U.K. practicing Salafism and Wahhabism compared to 68 in 2007. The money is primarily funneled through mosques and Islamic schools in Britain, according to the report.
Saudi Arabia is the top sponsor of terrorism in U.K., report says
https://news.vice.com/story/saudi-arabia-is-the-top-sponsor-of-terrorism-in-u-k-report-says

 

[x-ray peat]

@Badger I completely agree that Saudi Arabia as well as Pakistan should also be on the list but that doesn't negate the fact that Iran also promotes terrorism and that we should not have given, or released to keep Kyle happy, all that money to Iran without some change in their behavior. They have only gotten worse since the deal.

 

[Kyle M]

@Badger I completely agree that Saudi Arabia as well as Pakistan should also be on the list but that doesn't negate the fact that Iran also promotes terrorism and that we should not have given, or released to keep Kyle happy, all that money to Iran without some change in their behavior. They have only gotten worse since the deal.

Even if they do, Iran has a reason to be supporting terrorism and building up allies and military capacity. Or did you forget that USA overthrew their state a couple of times in the 20th century? Saudi Arabia on the other hand is purely offensive in its actions.