The Fire Rises

[Energizer]

Nothing close to the majority of the intellectual movement of a group (blacks included) had a secessionist program. Frederick Douglas and a few others seemed to say things towards that end, but without a fundamental grasp of what the state is and how it works, the idea did not grab hold in a meaningful way. Instead blacks took the now obviously destructive path of getting handouts from the state, entrenching them in poverty and social degeneration for generations.

Has less to do with welfare and more to do with being in generation after generation of extreme poverty. The incentive to work also has to be there... Most jobs are not generative or meaningful so they merely exist to exploit the labor of the working class to make business owners wealthier. Out in the Midwest, northeast, and south, where most poor minorities live, the Kind of jobs available are not very good from what I've seen... Things like 11 hours of factory work a day. I don't think there's much hope in those kind of areas. Even recently for example flint Michigans mayor denied there was lead in the water even though children were being poisoned by it. How can you have a thriving city when there's toxic amounts of lead poisoning your citizens? Hard for me to imagine any city doing well if it's own city government is ruled by people that incompetent. Capitalism and greed are also to blame for extreme income inequality.

 

[Kyle M]

Has less to do with welfare and more to do with being in generation after generation of extreme poverty. The incentive to work also has to be there... Most jobs are not generative or meaningful so they merely exist to exploit the labor of the working class to make business owners wealthier. Out in the Midwest, northeast, and south, where most poor minorities live, the Kind of jobs available are not very good from what I've seen... Things like 11 hours of factory work a day. I don't think there's much hope in those kind of areas. Even recently for example flint Michigans mayor denied there was lead in the water even though children were being poisoned by it. How can you have a thriving city when there's toxic amounts of lead poisoning your citizens?

Do you not see the link between welfare and poverty? Black poverty rates were falling drastically until the Great Society programs kicked in, in the late 1960s, and since then black poverty has stagnated (see chart below). If you were paid a little bit not to work, wouldn't that entrench your poverty too? You never progress to the next level of income and wealth that way. Most of the middle class and upper class families of today had ancestors working those long hard days in poor conditions. That's how an economy, at the micro and macro scale, is built, by production.

About Flint Michigan, Michigan is a lefty state, especially Detroit, and the toxic water was being provided by the state. When it came out that it was toxic, who sent in bottled water? Walmart, a private corporation. So yes, the lefty mayor and state legislature of Michigan certainly ruined that state and are responsible for lying to their citizens about the toxic water they were providing. How does that disprove my point about poverty and welfare?

 

[Energizer]

i don't think the problem is necessarily government handouts, taking away money from people is not going to magically enable them to have a higher quality of life. It could force more people to work to survive but that work may not necessarily be legal work. It could also force more people into homelessness. Either way, I don't think it's a compassionate solution and it doesn't fix the problem in any case which is a lack of meaningful Incentive to work. Just look at most jobs, most modern jobs are a complete waste of time. Our labor is divorced from our means of survival which was once meaningful work, hunting for food and shelter was purposeful and gave people a clear sense of their role and purpose of doing such labor. Not sitting in an office all day. The government enables a system which allows a few people to prosper and the rest to suffer. There's really no excuse for the hard work ethic anymore since technologically it is easy to mass produce food and shelter isn't too hard to build either. People should be working if they want to and if their work is generative and meaningful work... Not if they're forced into slugging away all day to turn a profit for someone else. Capitalism allows people to go homeless and it requires continuously going to war because it is not sustainable system. recently in an Indian hospital several dozen people were killed because the owner couldn't pay the utility bill, so they cut off the oxygen for people on life support.

 

[Energizer]

The owners of this country want the black and white working classes and minorities in general who share the same problems divided so we can ignore the horrible realities of capitalism and be complacent passive participants fighting amongst each other and divided instead of active responsible citizens fighting against the economic system which is enslaving all of us.

 

[DaveFoster]

There was a federal court order to disperse the Alt Right protesters at Charlottesville, denoting the event as an "unlawful assembly." Here's a video from white nationalist Richard Spencer confronting riot police in Charlottesville.

 

[Energizer]

i don't like the guy but he deserves a peaceful protest

 

[dbh25]

1st Amendment: Freedom of Speech

Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment and is re-established in the majority of state and federal laws. This particular clause typically protects and individual’s right to partake in even distasteful rhetoric, such as racist or sexist comments and distasteful remarks towards public policy.

 

[Badger]

There are lots of liberals who passionately believe or think this only applies to their ideas alone.

1st Amendment: Freedom of Speech

Freedom of speech in the United States is protected by the First Amendment and is re-established in the majority of state and federal laws. This particular clause typically protects and individual’s right to partake in even distasteful rhetoric, such as racist or sexist comments and distasteful remarks towards public policy.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

what is Nazi about saying "you will not replace us?

They said "jews will not replace us," not "you will not replace us." This is where is I split from that part of the right because I'm pro-Israel. Israel is the west and the west is under attack from leftists and Islam. That is why you see antifa weirdos holding up pictures of isis flags on their phones. Leftists, antifa, blm, feminists, socialists., etc are all united in their hatred for western culture and freedom. I don't care about "white identity." I care about western culture and freedom.

 

[DaveFoster]

They said "jews will not replace us," not "you will not replace us." This is where is I split from that part of the right because I'm pro-Israel. Israel is the west and the west is under attack from leftists and Islam. That is why you see antifa weirdos holding up pictures of isis flags on their phones. Leftists, antifa, blm, feminists, socialists., etc are all united in their hatred for western culture and freedom. I don't care about "white identity." I care about western culture and freedom.


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Are you familiar with the term, "religion of creed?"

 

[Kyle M]

They said "jews will not replace us," not "you will not replace us." This is where is I split from that part of the right because I'm pro-Israel. Israel is the west and the west is under attack from leftists and Islam. That is why you see antifa weirdos holding up pictures of isis flags on their phones. Leftists, antifa, blm, feminists, socialists., etc are all united in their hatred for western culture and freedom. I don't care about "white identity." I care about western culture and freedom.


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Upon further viewing different people were saying both. If Israel wants to exist, they can do it on their own without receiving my money and having an implicit military defense from my nation's military, putting me at risk for Islamic blow-back. They can also stop being the largest political lobby in the country and calling everyone who questions aid to Israel an anti-semite or now even a Nazi. And then can stop producing ten films about "The Holocaust" every year to maintain white guilt. If all of those conditions are met, then sure Israel is fine by me.

Edit: Paul Joseph is right, there are two alt rights. One has an ideology, and is principled, even if I don't agree with them on all of it. The other is a fence sitting nothing group that monetizes people's suffering with supplements lines and everything they do and say is for the clicks.

 

[charlie]

I have not yet bought into this myself, but am still ruminating over it.

In the future you will be thoroughly convinced.

 

[x-ray peat]

Upon further viewing different people were saying both. If Israel wants to exist, they can do it on their own without receiving my money and having an implicit military defense from my nation's military, putting me at risk for Islamic blow-back. They can also stop being the largest political lobby in the country and calling everyone who questions aid to Israel an anti-semite or now even a Nazi. And then can stop producing ten films about "The Holocaust" every year to maintain white guilt. If all of those conditions are met, then sure Israel is fine by me.

Edit: Paul Joseph is right, there are two alt rights. One has an ideology, and is principled, even if I don't agree with them on all of it. The other is a fence sitting nothing group that monetizes people's suffering with supplements lines and everything they do and say is for the clicks.

Almost everything you said is just plain wrong and demonstrates the ignorance of most who have fallen for the anti-Israeli propaganda.

1) The Israel Lobby is far from the largest US lobby and is not even in the top 50. If AIPAC was so powerful Obama would never have been able to sign the farce of a nuclear deal with Iran and then give them anywhere from 10-50 billion so that they can better continue their quest for a nuclear weapon and fund more anti-Israel terrorism. Lobbying’s top 50: Who’s spending big

2) Israel’s direct military aid is a drop in the bucket compared to what we spend maintaining troops in Japan, Europe, South Korea, and elsewhere. We also give a ton of money to Egypt but I don't hear you or anyone else ever complaining about Egyptian aid. The Israel double standard is taken as normal and no one asks why. Myth: Israel Is the Largest Beneficiary of US Military Aid

3) The fact that you use the term “The Holocaust” in quotes barely hides your true beliefs about whether or not it happened and further shows how ill-informed you are on the subject.

Its a good thing Israel's existence and everything else in the world doesn't depend on your approval. What a sad world it would be.

 

[Kyle M]

Almost everything you said is just plain wrong and demonstrates the ignorance of most who have fallen for the anti-Israeli propaganda.

1) The Israel Lobby is far from the largest US lobby and is not even in the top 50. If AIPAC was so powerful Obama would never have been able to sign the farce of a nuclear deal with Iran and then give them anywhere from 10-50 billion so that they can better continue their quest for a nuclear weapon and fund more anti-Israel terrorism. Lobbying’s top 50: Who’s spending big

2) Israel’s direct military aid is a drop in the bucket compared to what we spend maintaining troops in Japan, Europe, South Korea, and elsewhere. We also give a ton of money to Egypt but I don't hear you or anyone else ever complaining about Egyptian aid. The Israel double standard is taken as normal and no one asks why. Myth: Israel Is the Largest Beneficiary of US Military Aid

3) The fact that you use the term “The Holocaust” in quotes barely hides your true beliefs about whether or not it happened and further shows how ill-informed you are on the subject.

Its a good thing Israel's existence and everything else in the world doesn't depend on your approval. What a sad world it would be.

1) AIPAC isn't the only Israel lobby, there's J Street, and individuals that give out huge sums.

2) Israel gets more foreign aid from USA than any other nation. They are a first world country, why do they need it? Also, the implicit military defense is priceless, there is no other nation (outside of Saudi Arabia) that relies as heavily on the implicit military aid of USA if they got into trouble. This allows them to do things aggressively they would never be able to do without that "put." I do complain about Egypt aid in political circles, I hate all foreign aid. The difference is that idiots on the internet don't talk about Egypt being our "greatest ally" like they do about Israel, which has never helped me nor anyone I know at all and has only drained our finances and made us larger targets for terrorist blowback

3) I use the term because there have been several genocides with as large or larger body counts, in direct numbers and as a proportion of the relevant population. In Russia, The Ukraine, and Armenia there have been horrible genocides, but only "The Holocaust" gets taught over and over and over and over in schools. History class in USA is WWII/Holocaust studies, and it's full of bs. There's no way 6 million people were killed, there's no way they have accurate figures for that. If this wasn't at least partially propaganda, why so many films? Where are the films about the Armenian genocide, or the millions of Ukrainians Lenin killed?

Edit: I would like you to address the fact that only speaking out against Israeli policy and aid will get you shouted down as a Nazi, you can say anything on television about other nations. Israel is in a very privileged position vis a vis the narrative molded by mainstream news and nearly all politicians, no one speaks out against it for fear of the tidal wave of money that would flow in to their opposition if they did. This doesn't exist for speaking against the leadership or policies of Egypt, Sri Lanka, China, etc., just Israel, and Saudi Arabia I guess.

 

[Badger]

"...a group of 43 Senators – 29 Republicans and 14 Democrats – want to implement a law that would make it a felony for Americans to support the international boycott against Israel, which was launched in protest of that country’s decades-old occupation of Palestine. The two primary sponsors of the bill are Democrat Ben Cardin of Maryland and Republican Rob Portman of Ohio. Perhaps the most shocking aspect is the punishment: anyone guilty of violating its prohibitions will face a minimum civil penalty of $250,000, and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison. The proposed measure, called the Israel Anti-Boycott Act (S. 720), was introduced by Cardin on March 23. The Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports that the bill “was drafted with the assistance of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee [AIPAC]” … The bill’s co-sponsors include the senior Democrat in Washington, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, his New York colleague Kirsten Gillibrand, and several of the Senate’s more liberal members, such as Ron Wyden of Oregon, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut and Maria Cantwell of Washington. Illustrating the bipartisanship that AIPAC typically summons, it also includes several of the most right-wing Senators such as Ted Cruz of Texas, Ben Sasse of Nebraska, and Marco Rubio of Florida. A similar bill has already attracted 234 co-sponsors in the House."
43 Senators Want to Make It a Federal Crime to Boycott Israeli Settlements

1) AIPAC isn't the only Israel lobby, there's J Street, and individuals that give out huge sums.
I would like you to address the fact that only speaking out against Israeli policy and aid will get you shouted down as a Nazi, you can say anything on television about other nations. Israel is in a very privileged position vis a vis the narrative molded by mainstream news and nearly all politicians, no one speaks out against it for fear of the tidal wave of money that would flow in to their opposition if they did. This doesn't exist for speaking against the leadership or policies of Egypt, Sri Lanka, China, etc., just Israel, and Saudi Arabia I guess.

 

[Badger]

"But even apart from limiting the right to boycott by refusing to purchase goods for political reasons, the bill infringes on pure speech. It prohibits even requests for information about whether a person is doing business in Israel in order to support a boycott of Israel, regardless of whether the requester is actually engaged in a boycott. This additional prohibition will chill people from seeking information about companies boycotting Israel or engaged in business dealings in Israel. For example, suppose a consumer wishes to make a decision about whether to purchase a product made by a certain company. She posts a request on Facebook seeking information about that company’s environmental, labor rights, or human rights record. Her request is protected speech. But if the company she is asking about operates in the occupied Palestinian territories, and she is asking about that activity in order to support the U.N.’s resolution and then publicly shares any information she receives, she would have reason to fear prosecution under the law."
How the Israel Anti-Boycott Act Threatens First Amendment Rights

"...a group of 43 Senators – 29 Republicans and 14 Democrats – want to implement a law that would make it a felony for Americans to support the international boycott against Israel, which was launched in protest of that country’s decades-old occupation of Palestine. The two primary sponsors of the bill are Democrat Ben Cardin of Maryland and Republican Rob Portman of Ohio. Perhaps the most shocking aspect is the punishment: anyone guilty of violating its prohibitions will face a minimum civil penalty of $250,000, and a maximum criminal penalty of $1 million and 20 years in prison. The proposed measure, called the Israel Anti-Boycott Act (S. 720), was introduced by Cardin on March 23. The Jewish Telegraphic Agency reports that the bill “was drafted with the assistance of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee [AIPAC]” … The bill’s co-sponsors include the senior Democrat in Washington, Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, his New York colleague Kirsten Gillibrand, and several of the Senate’s more liberal members, such as Ron Wyden of Oregon, Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut and Maria Cantwell of Washington. Illustrating the bipartisanship that AIPAC typically summons, it also includes several of the most right-wing Senators such as Ted Cruz of Texas, Ben Sasse of Nebraska, and Marco Rubio of Florida. A similar bill has already attracted 234 co-sponsors in the House."
43 Senators Want to Make It a Federal Crime to Boycott Israeli Settlements

 

[Kyle M]

Wait a second Badger, are you saying there isn't similar legislation on the docket about boycotting Egypt, Russia, and other countries?

 

[Badger]

Nope. America is the only country whose politicians, as seen in this legislation, are eager to put their fellow countrymen in jail on behalf of Israel. Other countries who want similar legislation generated to benefit themselves will have to pay American politicians the requisite fees to them, as has done Israel.

Wait a second Badger, are you saying there isn't similar legislation on the docket about boycotting Egypt, Russia, and other countries?

 

[x-ray peat]

1) AIPAC isn't the only Israel lobby, there's J Street, and individuals that give out huge sums.

2) Israel gets more foreign aid from USA than any other nation. They are a first world country, why do they need it? Also, the implicit military defense is priceless, there is no other nation (outside of Saudi Arabia) that relies as heavily on the implicit military aid of USA if they got into trouble. This allows them to do things aggressively they would never be able to do without that "put." I do complain about Egypt aid in political circles, I hate all foreign aid. The difference is that idiots on the internet don't talk about Egypt being our "greatest ally" like they do about Israel, which has never helped me nor anyone I know at all and has only drained our finances and made us larger targets for terrorist blowback

3) I use the term because there have been several genocides with as large or larger body counts, in direct numbers and as a proportion of the relevant population. In Russia, The Ukraine, and Armenia there have been horrible genocides, but only "The Holocaust" gets taught over and over and over and over in schools. History class in USA is WWII/Holocaust studies, and it's full of bs. There's no way 6 million people were killed, there's no way they have accurate figures for that. If this wasn't at least partially propaganda, why so many films? Where are the films about the Armenian genocide, or the millions of Ukrainians Lenin killed?

Edit: I would like you to address the fact that only speaking out against Israeli policy and aid will get you shouted down as a Nazi, you can say anything on television about other nations. Israel is in a very privileged position vis a vis the narrative molded by mainstream news and nearly all politicians, no one speaks out against it for fear of the tidal wave of money that would flow in to their opposition if they did. This doesn't exist for speaking against the leadership or policies of Egypt, Sri Lanka, China, etc., just Israel, and Saudi Arabia I guess.

You previously stated that Israel was the largest lobby in the US. In spite of facts to the contrary you are still making the same claim without any proof. AiPAC gives out about 5 million, a pittance compared to the top 50. JStreet gave out 200k and is actually lobbying on the opposite side of AiPAC on most issues. Individual Jews are also on both sides of the Israli/Palestinian issue. The spectre of the all powerful Israel lobby is just more scapegoating propaganda. As a whole non-Jews give far more in lobbying than Jews and the rich Arab oil states give plenty as well.

Again the US spends far more on defending other areas of the world than on Israel. Also there is absolutely no guarantee that the US would send in troops to defend Israel. In fact during the Yom Kippur War and Israel was looking at total destruction, the US delayed any support for Israel until it was almost too late and only grudgingly provided it over the objections of the State and Defense Departments. Now compare that to our explicit guarantee of defense of all NATO countries, Japan, South Korea and Australia. We spend orders of magnitude higher in defending these countries than we do Israel.

As to why we give any money to Israel, it is not as simplistic as you make it out to be. We give it because it is in the US interest to do so. After the Yom Kippur War the US wanted to peel Egypt and other Arab states away from the Soviets with billions in aid. To maintain the status quo we gave Israel about the same amount as its enemies got. It was a pretty cheap price to pay to kick the Soviets out of the Middle East.

The Nazi Holocaust stood out from all other Genocides in that it was the first time that man had created an industrialized killing machine complete with help from IBM to keep track of all the dead. The records kept from who and how many were killed was pretty clear.

As far as speaking out against Israel, that is all the rage now. The biggest rallies on campuses today are all anti-Israel/BDS marches. The Democrats came close to having a BDS measure as part of their plank in 20016. The second in command at the DNC, Congressman Keith Ellison is an open BDS supporter as are many other Democratic politicians. The Democratic Socialists of America which have lots of Jews in it also recently passed a BDS measure. None are being called Nazis.

 

[x-ray peat]

"But even apart from limiting the right to boycott by refusing to purchase goods for political reasons, the bill infringes on pure speech. It prohibits even requests for information about whether a person is doing business in Israel in order to support a boycott of Israel, regardless of whether the requester is actually engaged in a boycott. This additional prohibition will chill people from seeking information about companies boycotting Israel or engaged in business dealings in Israel. For example, suppose a consumer wishes to make a decision about whether to purchase a product made by a certain company. She posts a request on Facebook seeking information about that company’s environmental, labor rights, or human rights record. Her request is protected speech. But if the company she is asking about operates in the occupied Palestinian territories, and she is asking about that activity in order to support the U.N.’s resolution and then publicly shares any information she receives, she would have reason to fear prosecution under the law."
How the Israel Anti-Boycott Act Threatens First Amendment Rights

Read the full article from the ACLU and you will see that the bill is just a small modification of an existing bill that prevents foreign countries or agencies from forcing our companies to join in foreign mandated boycotts of Israel like the Arab states had imposed after the Yom Kippur War. The clearly anti-Constitutional hype that the anti Israel groups have portrayed this proposed law as is just hype.