The Fall of Man

[TheSir]

so you consider that power and freedom are something feel you can feel independently of the context and your ressources,

Insofar as we are talking about material resources, I do.

do you consider it just a conscious choice?

Yes, though not merely. Ultimately feelings of freedom and power are a result of conscious action. It is not enough to choose to be free or powerful, one needs to be free and powerful -- not in the sense that they need to gain freedom or power, but that they need to live their freedom and power true in their thoughts and actions.

do you consider that a human being can not eat anything in his entire life and feel a high degree of power and freedom?

Though I don't think the decision to eat or starve bears inherent relevance to one's sense of freedom or power, for some refraining from eating may be a way to express of these qualities. Fasting is a popular way in most religions to gain freedom from the world. Some Buddhists take this even further by considering self-mummification as the final act of liberation, i.e. they curb all bodily functions until they simply stop living. If this act does not speak of power and freedom, the subsequent result of achieving nirvana certainly will.

 

[Morgan]

@Morgan
have you seen the anime attack on titans? one of the main characters, Sieg Jäger has for goal a soft eradication, by making all his people sterile. why do you assume the majority of beings suffer most of their life? You can make inferences if you are in the presence of a human being who manifests things that you associate with suffering, because from experiences you yourself have characterized these things when you were suffering, but why do you project it on all living beings considering that not all living beings show reactions similar to yours in a certain context that could cause you suffering, and that all living beings do not have the same sensitivity, so a event, phenomenon that could cause you suffering, would cause amusement, or stoicism to another living being?

Why do you need to have an end, how do you determine what right end is ? you suffer, and you project your suffering on all other living beings, or you feel empathy, which once again is experienced inside you, it does not mean that the living being you observ is feeling something similar to what you feel by empathy. And because you feel these things you wish living beings a soft extinction, you wish that there are no more new lives, and that no new living being has the possibility of experiencing life, and to exclude him from the possibility of feeling positive emotions, or mostly positive emotions because according to you life is mostly suffering.

I respect your sensitivity, the perspective you share is disgusting, and your sensitivity and affinity to this pessimistic perspective is based on your biological state and your own lack of well-being, you probably think you feel fine, and that this perspective is partly rational and unbiased but it is not, and it is not a blame, all people's sensitivity and affinity to certain ideas and perspectives are greatly influenced by how they feel , their biological state.

for your own good, that of peoples on this forum, and that of life,find foods that increase your well being,plenitude,optimisme enough and have the agility of mind to realize that exept some of the human beings you have known enough about, and who show reactions very similar to yours in of the situations that would cause you suffering, and which seem to manifest suffering most of the times, ,your perspective of life being mainly suffering for the majority of living beings is an inference that is poorly founded, and it is mainly cause by your own suffering, or you lack of personal well-being that makes you sensitive to this perspective..as i said i respect your sensitivity,i only despise the pessimistic perspective you shared.i am curious,are you a man or a woman?

I'm not assuming that the majority of beings suffer most of their life, I'm saying that suffering is inevitable for all of them. There is an immense disparity of which beings suffer, and the intensity or duration of said suffering. I'm actually not projecting my personal suffering on other beings, I am completely taking in their projected state via mental placement or empathy. So, what I do is place myself in their position as cleanly as I can, as in removed of my dispositions, removed of my knowledge. I do this for both the victim and "perpetrator", as in the case of the short video above of the lion cubs and the adult lion. Placing oneself into one of the cubs, shaking like a scared kitten does because it doesn't understand why its mother is upset, it can't properly process the incoming violence it will experience.. and so it shakes and tries to defend itself instinctually or reactively.. and then, immense pain. A rolling of the dice to have a chance at life only to end up starving as a defeated alpha male in the future.

This process is done with people of course.. and it can be difficult for me to personally not develop a misanthropic view point, it is genuinely uncomfortable to truly empathize with awful people, to play out their thought process or the potential dynamics of their life; but they are often just another victim as well.. in one way or another. You could say that it is just an isolated experience within me, but when it turns out to be accurate time and time again I'm lead to trust my intuition.

We have studied the biology of animals, we can logically deduce what kind of experiences they are having, the stress they are under hormonally, the process which creates learned helplessness, the relative sensations of pain.. and its clear that they don't have the luxury of amusement or stoicism in the face of that, that is a human phenomenon. This supposed subjectively of well understand biochemical processes and sensations is deflection.

Please, you have no need to assume what my biological state or well being is, you do not know. I can be a relatively content person in my personal life and still come to this understanding. Regardless of how healthy one is there is a tendency for life to come along and disrupt, through death and loss.

Let me make it clear, I haven't stated some hedonistic calculation of positive or negative emotions or sensations, it doesn't matter to me.. It only takes the suffering or torture of one innocent child for me to conclude that this existence is a joke. As we speak it is happening to some being and I don't believe the "positive" emotions justify that suffering. To exclude someone from the CHANCE(its just a chance) of positive emotions is nothing compared to sparing them from the endless well of potential suffering.

(I haven't seen Attack on Titan, sorry~)

 

[Morgan]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3_1gjbnYuE

 

[LUH 3417]

Natural selection selects for consciousness and conscience


View: https://mobile.twitter.com/AnimalBeingBro5/status/1513740870079582212

 

[johnwester130]

Within science fiction there is a recurring theme - a man breaks free from the physical world and becomes a light being.

He does this by breaking free from his desires to make money, seek fame and attention, arguing with others, trying to prove things,

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3_1gjbnYuE

The purpose of man is to turn into light form

We must pass through physical form before we get there

​

Antinatalism Is a consumerist idea based upon the false financial system, resources and running out of resources and therefore we should have less children or none at all because we don't have enough money or resources..
It is an idea that does not believe we have unlimited free energy, ancient technologies and suppressed modern technologies that make life better because the human race is damaging to the environment. It is if we live in the consumerist system of Biden and the Satanists, but there is an alternative.
Humanity is capable of creating something like Atlantis or Ancient Egypt, but people who believe in the five sense reality of going to work, paying taxes and shopping cannot expand their minds enough to realise it.
The answers to our problems are being hidden - as late as 1870 a massive empire existed with advanced technology and free energy.

SH Archive - Tartary - an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once...

pulls the strings Answering who pulled the strings of previous civilisations gets increasingly more difficult the more 'lost' territories we discover. The Muslim control over Tartaria might be either later in the timeline or be restricted to those near-east/eastern Europe territories. The name...

stolenhistory.net

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDy6h2QumM0&ab_channel=UAMNTV

 

[FoodForeal]

If you don't reproduce, the world will be less like you. If you prevent other people from reproducing if they don't share your mindset, you make the world more like you. Convincing people to be antinatalist or antisuffering is impossible. They either are or they aren't.

For example let's say someone eats factory farmed animal products without knowing anything about where it comes from, they just eat it because they need it. This person may be convinced that they should stop eating factory farmed animal products if they knew the factory conditions and the effects they have on the animals as well as the stress (to say the least) of slaughterhouses and how it all affects the taste and nutritional value of the meat. But what if the person does not believe they should stop eating factory farmed meat at that point? Either the person knows what factory farmed animal products are and what they mean for the progression of the world into the future and rejects them outright or they believe paying the price of lower quality food in exchange for lower monetary price is worth it (in which case they show they will debase the sanctity of all life on earth for money) or they just cannot see, they are unreachable.

 

[johnwester130]

If you don't reproduce, the world will be less like you. If you prevent other people from reproducing if they don't share your mindset, you make the world more like you. Convincing people to be antinatalist or antisuffering is impossible. They either are or they aren't.

For example let's say someone eats factory farmed animal products without knowing anything about where it comes from, they just eat it because they need it. This person may be convinced that they should stop eating factory farmed animal products if they knew the factory conditions and the effects they have on the animals as well as the stress (to say the least) of slaughterhouses and how it all affects the taste and nutritional value of the meat. But what if the person does not believe they should stop eating factory farmed meat at that point and therefore follow through with their actions? Either the person knows what factory farmed animal products are and what they mean for the progression of the world into the future and rejects them outright or they believe paying the price of lower quality food in exchange for lower monetary price is worth it (in which case they show they will debase the sanctity of all life on earth for money) or they just cannot see, they are unreachable.

That is a "normal" view of reality. You are stuck in the normal rational world, and so are your beliefs.

There is overwhelming evidence that ancient cultures were more advanced than us, empires were removed from the history books and that the world once existed on a different electromagnetic spectrum.

We are logial, rational thinkers but the world was once full of magic and free energy.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tLXPo5wll0&ab_channel=blackmagik363

SH Archive - Tartary - an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once...

TARTARY"Tartary, a vast country in the northern parts of Asia, bounded by Siberia on the north and west: this is called Great Tartary. The Tartars who lie south of Muscovy and Siberia, are those of Astracan, Circassia, and Dagistan, situated north-west of the Caspian-sea; the Calmuc Tartars...

stolenhistory.net

 

[johnwester130]

John 8:45
45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!

Jesus was literally teling people that working, fighting and arguing over money were the old ways.
He knew that the truth was suppressed, whether it be aliens, technology or advanced human abilities such as telepathy and immortality but they cannot believe this, even though it frees them from the physical prison.

 

[LUH 3417]

John 8:45
45 But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me!

Jesus was literally teling people that working, fighting and arguing over money were the old ways.
He knew that the truth was suppressed, whether it be aliens, technology or advanced human abilities such as telepathy and immortality but they cannot believe this, even though it frees them from the physical prison.

“Jesus” wanted free time for everyone and a de-structured society where no one was better than anyone else. Advanced human abilities would be something like egalitarian societies where no ones toil fattens the pockets of someone else. It’s not that esoteric or mysterious, but history, philosophy, religion and academia love to make it so. The history of the world is the history of one group of people enslaving and exploiting another group of people by mystifying nature and reality. If you were an Egyptian slave you’d think an eclipse was punishment for stealing too much rye. Having enough food to be able to develop reason through empirical observation of the world is something most people on this planet still don’t have access to, because of starvation, disease and constant warfare where they live, so in context just getting people fed and literate and with a high enough IQ to be able to perceive think and act would certainly appear “magical”.

 

[Morgan]

Within science fiction there is a recurring theme - a man breaks free from the physical world and becomes a light being.

He does this by breaking free from his desires to make money, seek fame and attention, arguing with others, trying to prove things,


The purpose of man is to turn into light form

We must pass through physical form before we get there

​

Antinatalism Is a consumerist idea based upon the false financial system, resources and running out of resources and therefore we should have less children or none at all because we don't have enough money or resources..
It is an idea that does not believe we have unlimited free energy, ancient technologies and suppressed modern technologies that make life better because the human race is damaging to the environment. It is if we live in the consumerist system of Biden and the Satanists, but there is an alternative.
Humanity is capable of creating something like Atlantis or Ancient Egypt, but people who believe in the five sense reality of going to work, paying taxes and shopping cannot expand their minds enough to realise it.
The answers to our problems are being hidden - as late as 1870 a massive empire existed with advanced technology and free energy.

SH Archive - Tartary - an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once...

pulls the strings Answering who pulled the strings of previous civilisations gets increasingly more difficult the more 'lost' territories we discover. The Muslim control over Tartaria might be either later in the timeline or be restricted to those near-east/eastern Europe territories. The name...

stolenhistory.net

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDy6h2QumM0&ab_channel=UAMNTV

Antinatalism has nothing to do with some "consumerist" idea, it is a concept as old as language, and it is simple.. being born is a sorrowful thing, and more importantly imposing life on someone else is morally questionable. It has nothing to do with resources, or attempting to reduce population to meet some goal in order to hypothetically improve our quality of life. The world is and will always be finite, even our "creative" potential is finite. The system that you propose as being imposed upon us is no different than how life is imposed upon sentient consciousness.

Would you define this light form as being perfection? Were we once in a state of perfection? Was all of creation in this state of perfection?

Perfection can't falter, it can not degrade into what is now, it is flawless and stable without being able to be disrupted in any regard... Yet here we are?

 

[johnwester130]

Antinatalism has nothing to do with some "consumerist" idea, it is a concept as old as language, and it is simple.. being born is a sorrowful thing, and more importantly imposing life on someone else is morally questionable. It has nothing to do with resources, or attempting to reduce population to meet some goal in order to hypothetically improve our quality of life. The world is and will always be finite, even our "creative" potential is finite. The system that you propose as being imposed upon us is no different than how life is imposed upon sentient consciousness.

Would you define this light form as being perfection? Were we once in a state of perfection? Was all of creation in this state of perfection?

Perfection can't falter, it can not degrade into what is now, it is flawless and stable without being able to be disrupted in any regard... Yet here we are?

Life was not always painful. It wasn't always sorrowful.

Life was once perfect and there is evidence to show that.
Human beings once co existed with aliens and shared their technology with them and that included healing technology and technology that created bliss on Earth.
In the current state of humanity, things are bad.
Most technology and history has been removed from history books and kept away from people to keep them in the negative state of pain, sorrow and anxiety and fear.
There was no sorrow or pain for many thousands of years on Earth.

I still stand by the fact anti natalists are only reacting to their environment and world they lived in and forgot the past when wonder and magic had replaced the logical rational man. If we expand our awareness - which means the information that is hidden from us - our opinions of the world and what is possible will change.
Stolenhistory.net is the best example of that.

 

[TheSir]

Life was not always painful. It wasn't always sorrowful.

Life was once perfect and there is evidence to show that.
Human beings once co existed with aliens and shared their technology with them and that included healing technology and technology that created bliss on Earth.
In the current state of humanity, things are bad.
Most technology and history has been removed from history books and kept away from people to keep them in the negative state of pain, sorrow and anxiety and fear.
There was no sorrow or pain for many thousands of years on Earth.

Do you think us humans have only degenerated since adamite times? Especially when comparing the past few generations to each other, it is easy to see how much inferior the younger generations are to the older ones. I've been wondering if a similar contrast was observable by all generations of history? The Noahite generations were claimed to have lived hundreds of years, for example. Could it be that the whole history of humanity reflects this sentiment of how our grandfathers were so much manlier than us? Will future generations look at us and think "wow, there are no people like that nowadays"?

I still stand by the fact anti natalists are only reacting to their environment and world they lived in and forgot the past when wonder and magic had replaced the logical rational man.

I agree. I used to be a huge anti-natalist in my early twenties. The healthier I've become, the less intense my anti-natalist sentiments have become. I'm not necessarily pro-natalist, but more like 'if God wills it then it shall happen' in regard to reproduction. In other words, I still see not breeding as the default premise, but I'm no longer intellectually nor emotionally opposed to the idea of having children.

 

[johnwester130]

Do you think us humans have only degenerated since adamite times? Especially when comparing the past few generations to each other, it is easy to see how much inferior the younger generations are to the older ones. I've been wondering if a similar contrast was observable by all generations of history? The Noahite generations were claimed to have lived hundreds of years, for example. Could it be that the whole history of humanity reflects this sentiment of how our grandfathers were so much manlier than us? Will future generations look at us and think "wow, there are no people like that nowadays"?

I agree. I used to be a huge anti-natalist in my early twenties. The healthier I've become, the less intense my anti-natalist sentiments have become. I'm not necessarily pro-natalist, but more like 'if God wills it then it shall happen' in regard to reproduction. In other words, I still see not breeding as the default premise, but I'm no longer intellectually nor emotionally opposed to the idea of having children.

I think there has been a force on Earth that wanted to enslave and degenerate humans so they could control them.
They do this by restricting knowledge, technology and history so that you think the meaning of life is working 9-5, netflix and shopping.
Some would call it demons, Archons or Wetiko.

However they are getting desperate to make their moves - this is why we have forced vaccinations and upcoming world war 3.

Aliens have interfered with human DNA in the past and they may do this again in the future.

 

[Nomane Euger]

I think there has been a force on Earth that wanted to enslave and degenerate humans so they could control them.
They do this by restricting knowledge, technology and history so that you think the meaning of life is working 9-5, netflix and shopping.
Some would call it demons, Archons or Wetiko.

However they are getting desperate to make their moves - this is why we have forced vaccinations and upcoming world war 3.

Aliens have interfered with human DNA in the past and they may do this again in the future.

hi,how do you know with certainty or a high degree of credibility what happened before you were born,specifically over 100 years ago?

 

[FoodForeal]

Aliens are not needed for us to live good lives. Everybody has to go back to homesteading. How we get there, draw your own conclusions.

Do you want heaven on earth? Do you think it's possible? If you are Christian or antinatalist the answer should be no.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZfUqbpx28U&t=2361s

 

[LUH 3417]

Aliens are not needed for us to live good lives. Everybody has to go back to homesteading. How we get there, draw your own conclusions.

Do you want heaven on earth? Do you think it's possible? If you are Christian or antinatalist the answer should be no.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZfUqbpx28U&t=2361s

Lol go back to home steading and then what, black rock rolls up and tells you your property is no longer yours and to surrender? What are you going to do? i know it’s a cute twitter trad fantasy but there is no escaping, and it’s pathetic to just scurry away from cities because you feel threatened and powerless. Cities have a lot of incredible potential, if they were taken back into the hands of the people who live in them

 

[FoodForeal]

Lol go back to home steading and then what, black rock rolls up and tells you your property is no longer yours and to surrender? What are you going to do? i know it’s a cute twitter trad fantasy but there is no escaping, and it’s pathetic to just scurry away from cities because you feel threatened and powerless. Cities have a lot of incredible potential, if they were taken back into the hands of the people who live in them

I described the ends, I said to draw your own conclusions about the means. Btw, what is described in the video is not a "twitter trad fantasy". Life is easy if you just have land and cultivate it.

 

[LUH 3417]

I described the ends, I said to draw your own conclusions about the means. Btw, what is described in the video is not a "twitter trad fantasy". Life is easy if you just have land and cultivate it.

I don’t know that it’s easy once you just have land and cultivate it, and even if it was, getting to the place of “just have land and cultivate it” is basically what everyone is fighting over anyway.

 

[FoodForeal]

I don’t know that it’s easy once you just have land and cultivate it

It is pretty easy to get what you need. You can easily get food, water, and shelter. Animals manage the first two and often the third. Keep adding after that if you want.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJp-R0NF19k


View: https://youtu.be/b2eoQyYoUww

“just have land and cultivate it” is basically what everyone is fighting over anyway.

Basically, yeah. Everything comes from the land so if everybody had as much land as they needed to be self sufficient...

 

[LUH 3417]

It is pretty easy to get what you need. You can easily get food, water, and shelter. Animals manage the first two and often the third. Keep adding after that if you want.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJp-R0NF19k


View: https://youtu.be/b2eoQyYoUww



Basically, yeah. Everything comes from the land so if everybody had as much land as they needed to be self sufficient..

Looks cool. Guess I have to move to the tropics