The Dope On Blocking Fatty Acid Oxidation

jamies33

Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2017
Messages
1,497
Location
Canada
There is often a misunderstanding of what it means when it comes to blocking fatty acid oxidation, so I wrote an article to hopefully clarify some of the confusion around the topic.

The dope on blocking fatty acid oxidation » MENELITE

Let me know if it answered some of your questions, or if you have questions that I didn't cover.
Are FAO inhibitors and stearic acid (or long chain fats) the only way to increase or fix mitochondria?
 

Jessie

Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
534
Great stuff Hans! So it's kind of counterintuitive for keto people to be supplementing carnitine, despite the fact I've seen many of them recommend it before? From what I gathered here, it's actually inhibiting FAO by removing acetylcarnitine from the mitochondria?
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,004
Location
Manila
There is a lot to fatty oxidation, not just beta oxidation but also peroxisomal oxidation. And I didn't know that lcfa's can be broken down in mcfa's and scfa's in case the pathway to burning lcfa's is blocked.

The protocol for using FAO inhibitors together with stearic acid sounds very interesting in increasing mitochondria. Is this something that could help people like for example people who used to be long distance runners and have very low heart rate to possibly increase their heart rate by increasing their mitochondria?

Thanks for the very informative article, and explaining it very clearly Hans.

I have a few additional questions as I read your article:

Why does the heart have a preference for fatty acid oxidation? Is it just the characteristic of it being composed of muscles and therefore, being so, it burns fat at rest? Will it resort to burning glucose then when active, and to burning glycogen when subject to intense loads?

As for taking an FAO inhibitor such as meldonium, is it helpful for everyone or is it for people with heart issues that suffer from poor mix of metabolic pathways in their metabolism, where they have been relying on fatty oxidation for their metabolism too much at the expense of reducing their reliance on glucose metabolism?

Also, if one already has an optimal sugar metabolism, what benefit do you see in taking FAO inhibitors, if there is such a benefit?
 

S-VV

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2018
Messages
461
@yerrag
I tried meldonium 500mg x2 per day. Positive effects were more energy and a feeling of being “lighter”. I ran out of breath less.

However, I started gaining a bit of fat and craved fatty foods a lot more, much more than before taking meldonium.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
7,004
Location
Manila
@yerrag
I tried meldonium 500mg x2 per day. Positive effects were more energy and a feeling of being “lighter”. I ran out of breath less.

However, I started gaining a bit of fat and craved fatty foods a lot more, much more than before taking meldonium.
Thanks. Why were you taking it?
 

Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
3,242
Are FAO inhibitors and stearic acid (or long chain fats) the only way to increase or fix mitochondria?
No, there are other ways of doing it as well, such as exercise, fasting, lowering inflammation and endotoxins, promoting AMPK and PGC1a, etc.
I just think that this might be one of the better strategies of doing it.
 

Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
3,242
Great stuff Hans! So it's kind of counterintuitive for keto people to be supplementing carnitine, despite the fact I've seen many of them recommend it before? From what I gathered here, it's actually inhibiting FAO by removing acetylcarnitine from the mitochondria?
Thanks for reading. I wouldn't exactly say that it's counterintuitive (although carnitine is anti-thyroid). Carnitine does increase the total amount of fat burned; which is most likely due to it improving mitochondrial function by restoring glucose oxidation. This then allows for more fatty acid oxidation. So the increase in fat oxidation is due to more and better functioning mitochondria, and not necessarily due to a higher rate of beta-oxidation per mitochondria.
So in other words, carnitine helps to lower excessive pathological fatty acid oxidation, but in the long term (by increasing total mitochondria), it can allow for more "healthy" fat oxidation.
But just because carnitine has a "good" aspect, such as promoting glucose oxidation, doesn't mean it should be used for that reason, because carnitine has its own side effects and there are better and smarter ways to restore glucose oxidation.
 

Mito

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Messages
1,898
There is often a misunderstanding of what it means when it comes to blocking fatty acid oxidation, so I wrote an article to hopefully clarify some of the confusion around the topic.

The dope on blocking fatty acid oxidation » MENELITE

Let me know if it answered some of your questions, or if you have questions that I didn't cover.
Do you have any thoughts on timing of FAO inhibitor supplementation? For example, once per day in the morning or evening, or before or after each meal?
 

Recoen

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
592
@Hans is this assuming you have proper glucose metabolism first? Or will inhibiting FAO push the body to fix its glucose metabolism? I’m concerned that if someone is having a hard time getting enough ATP from glucose and their body is relying on keotacids, etc that inhibiting the FAO could lead to some major problems.
 

Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
3,242
The protocol for using FAO inhibitors together with stearic acid sounds very interesting in increasing mitochondria. Is this something that could help people like for example people who used to be long distance runners and have very low heart rate to possibly increase their heart rate by increasing their mitochondria?
Not sure if more mitochondria will help the heart beat faster. Acetylcholine slows heart rate, so I think lowering excessive acetylcholine might be a better strategy for that.

Why does the heart have a preference for fatty acid oxidation? Is it just the characteristic of it being composed of muscles and therefore, being so, it burns fat at rest? Will it resort to burning glucose then when active, and to burning glycogen when subject to intense loads?
If the heart were to use only glucose, then the risk of death would have been very high, because if there would be a famine, then everyone would die. So I think it's partly because fat stores are much much larger than glycogen stores so it's a "safer" and more reliable source. Also, the heart would definitely use more glucose as the workload increases because glucose is a much more effective fuel for hard-working muscles.

As for taking an FAO inhibitor such as meldonium, is it helpful for everyone or is it for people with heart issues that suffer from poor mix of metabolic pathways in their metabolism, where they have been relying on fatty oxidation for their metabolism too much at the expense of reducing their reliance on glucose metabolism?
Even healthy people can experience benefits from it, that's why it's used as a performance enhancer. Blocking FAO, even if you're healthy, should increase mitochondrial biogenesis and upregulate the beneficial effects of peroxisomal beta-oxidation.

Also, if one already has an optimal sugar metabolism, what benefit do you see in taking FAO inhibitors, if there is such a benefit?
The benefit would most likely be improving energy production even more, limiting the damages of stress, upregulating peroxisomal beta-oxidation, etc.
 

Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
3,242
Do you have any thoughts on timing of FAO inhibitor supplementation? For example, once per day in the morning or evening, or before or after each meal?
It depends on which one you use as they have different half-lives. Meldonium and Pyrucet are best taken twice daily, whereas Haidut is currently working on one with a much longer half-life of 1-2 days IIRC. I think dosing in the morning is a good idea, since then FFAs are highest after an overnight fast. Also, taking it during stress will be helpful to limit the harmful effects of stress.
 

Hans

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
3,242
@Hans is this assuming you have proper glucose metabolism first? Or will inhibiting FAO push the body to fix its glucose metabolism? I’m concerned that if someone is having a hard time getting enough ATP from glucose and their body is relying on keotacids, etc that inhibiting the FAO could lead to some major problems.
The studies show that blocking FAO improves energy production, so I think this strategy is one of the best ways to fix proper energy production. You'll just have to make sure you're consuming enough micros to support proper energy production as well (such as B-vitamins, especially B1 and also magnesium, copper and so on).
 

S-VV

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2018
Messages
461
Thanks. Why were you taking it?
Good question!
I have an unexplained illness, and every so often I throw things at it to get an Idea of what may be going on. You know, perturbing the system to know more about it.

I remember going for a walk a few days after starting meldonium, and I felt incredibly light. Absolutely no oxygen “hunger”. But the fat gain and fat cravings are real. I have gone thru several boxes of meldonium and everytime, they appear.
 

Recoen

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
592
The studies show that blocking FAO improves energy production, so I think this strategy is one of the best ways to fix proper energy production. You'll just have to make sure you're consuming enough micros to support proper energy production as well (such as B-vitamins, especially B1 and also magnesium, copper and so on).
Thank you!

Do you think pyrucet with niacinamide right after waking could help someone who tends towards hypoglycemia? If going that route, how long do you theorize it would take to have sustained improved E metabolism? Do you think someone would need to cycle this throughout the year or do you think its more a one time 6wk process?

Do you ever supplement Cu or do you rely on liver, oysters, etc?
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
haidut Blocking cortisol may treat terminal pancreatic cancer Scientific Studies 1
haidut Stress (cortisol) causes pre-term birth by blocking progesterone Scientific Studies 0
haidut Blocking PUFA/prostaglandins restores metabolism and reverses brain aging Scientific Studies 0
R Blocking Covid vaccine Vaccines 38
haidut Blocking Cortisol May Treat Even Terminal Cancers Scientific Studies 9
B Estrogen Blocking Rant or Rave 40
haidut Blocking Serotonin Treats Fatty Liver Disease (NAFLD / NASH) Scientific Studies 2
haidut Blocking Serotonin May Treat Allergies And Inflammatory Diseases Scientific Studies 6
haidut Blocking PUFA Supply Halts Brain Cancer (glioblastoma) Scientific Studies 0
haidut Blocking Serotonin, Adrenaline Treats Anxiety, Brain Damage Due To Alcohol "addiction" Scientific Studies 6
berk Aspirin, Pain Blocking And Sport Articles 6
haidut Arginine / Glutamine Depletion May Treat Cancer By Blocking The Warburg "Effect" Scientific Studies 13
haidut Blocking Cystine, And Thus Glutathione (GSH) Synthesis, Kills Cancer Stem Cells Scientific Studies 11
haidut Blocking Endotoxin (LPS) May Reverse/cure Diabetes Type I Scientific Studies 5
haidut Blocking Stress (adrenaline) Just Once Cures PTSD And Maybe Any Mental Disorder Scientific Studies 82
Lokzo Blocking Estrogen In Men Is Problematic Thyroid and Hormones 10
haidut Blocking Estrogen In Brain Strikingly Anabolic For Female Muscles / Bones Scientific Studies 31
Amazigh Does Blocking Estrogen Cause Spontaneous Expulsion Of Fibroids?/necrotic Tissue Etc Female Issues 21
W Eliminating Vs Blocking Serotonin Cortisol, Serotonin, Histamine 13
haidut PUFA Is Essential For Cancer, Aspirin And/or Blocking Estrogen Therapeutic Scientific Studies 6
P Blocking Human Fear Memory With The Matrix Metalloproteinase Inhibitor Doxycycline Articles & Scientific Studies 6
alywest Blocking Oxytocin For Women Ask For Help or Advice 9
smith Blocking Both Estrogen & Testosterone Experiments 10
S Inactivating/blocking Vaccines And/or Adjuvants? Vaccines 4
ShirtTieFitness Blue‐blocking Glasses As Additive Treatment For Mania (bi-polar) Scientific Studies 2
T Blocking PTSD With Doxycycline Scientific Studies 7
haidut Blocking The Endotoxin (TLR4) Receptor May Protect From Ebola Lethality Scientific Studies 2
haidut Blocking PUFA Metabolism May Reverse Alzheimer Disease (AD) Scientific Studies 11
haidut Systemic Sclerosis (scleroderma) May Be Due To Endotoxin; Blocking TLR4 Can Treat It Scientific Studies 1
haidut Blocking Endotoxin (TLR4) Can Prevent Pre-term Birth Scientific Studies 5
haidut Blocking Blue Light Can Cure Bipolar Disorder Scientific Studies 19
haidut Blocking Adrenaline Activity May Reduce Autism Symptoms Scientific Studies 13
haidut Blocking Cortisol May Treat Alcohol "addiction" Scientific Studies 10
haidut Blocking inflammation from PUFA stops progression of cancer Scientific Studies 11
haidut Blocking Serotonin Extends Lifespan By 40%, Triples Youthspan Articles 20
haidut Blocking Inflammation From PUFA Reverses Brain Aging Scientific Studies 37
haidut Serotonin Causes Autism; Blocking It May Treat Autism Scientific Studies 35
A Can't figure out what is blocking metabolism Ask For Help or Advice 4
haidut Blocking Glycolysis May Be A Treatment For Lupus Health 3
haidut PUFA induce cell swelling by blocking cell uptake of taurine Scientific Studies 0
haidut Delaying/blocking Tryptophan Absorption In Gut Scientific Studies 52
haidut Blocking The Negative Effects Of Electromagnetic Radiation Toxins, Detoxification 19
Bluebell What is blocking the iron, in tea/coffee? Coffee 3
charlie Blue Light/Ultraviolet Blocking Sunglasses, Orange Lens Light 40
charlie Blocking Tissue Destruction Articles & Newsletters 0
bzmazu Do omega-3 fatty acids keep the coronavirus out? Polyunsaturated Fats, Seed Oils 0
J Masterjohn Essential Fatty Acids are Essential Polyunsaturated Fats, Seed Oils 50
J Advice On Labs. Fatty liver ? Blood Work, Labs 11
J Incredible Craving for Fatty Red Meat Diet 16
Mito The efficacy of vitamin E in reducing non-alcoholic fatty liver disease E 0

Similar threads

Top