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The DHT Thread - Principles For Raising DHT (Supps, Foods, Etc.)

  1. From reading Peat and other forum members, and applying some principles myself to try and increase it, I gotta say I LOVE DHT! Googling DHT, all you find is ideas on how to block it!

    My hairline seems fine, so I'd like to go about continuing to try and increase it. I'm not yet willing to take the hormone directly, but rather I'd like to get a good checklist of supplements, foods, and lifestyle factors that will help my body make as much as possible on its own.

    Why DHT is Awesome

    - Great confidence
    - Great erections
    - Fantastic sex drive
    - Deeper Voice
    - Better workouts

    Some Principles that I've picked up from reading the forum (please feel free to correct, add onto, etc):

    - More testosterone is good, because T converts to DHT via 5AR enzyme
    - So I guess we want all the things that can increase 5AR
    - Thyroid function is somehow important (well it's good in general) but in particular it's involved in making DHT. I read this somewhere, would like to confirm/dis-confirm, and understand the mechanism why.

    Known DHT Enhancers (please feel free to correct, add onto, etc):

    - Creatine
    - Fat Soluble Vitamins (A, D, E, K2)
    - Niacinamide (Vitamin B3)
    - Vitamin B6
    - Glycine
    - Taurine
    - Androsterone (* I'll put a star next to items that are hormones)
    - Caffeine
    - T3 (*)

    Possible DHT Enhancers

    - Calcium (known to help increase T levels)
    - Magnesium (known to help increase T levels)
    - Zinc (helps with T but some sources say is dose-dependent effect)
    - Sugar (seems to help with energy and thyroid, but online sources say sugar lowers T levels? Not my experience)
    - Ginseng (pops up on Google)
    - "Tribulus but the right concentration" (should find a source)
    - "Nicotine to inhibit breakdown to weaker metabolites"

    Food and Diet

    - Not entirely sure for anything specific. Definitely avoiding PUFA and the usual suspects.
    - But should we focus on higher carbs? Saturated fats?
    - How important is protein as a proportion of total calories?

    - Raw Milk
    - Cholesterol (what are good food sources?)

    Lifestyle Factors

    - Being calm and in control
    - Moving into managerial positions and having subordinates; increases social status and thus probably hormones
    - Lots of sex
    - High quality deep sleep
    - "Winning", i.e. getting positive outcomes you want, and not feeling constrained and held down somehow

    ---

    Help me add onto and clarify some of these topics, preferably with studies, Peat clips/readings, etc, and I'll update the OP so hopefully others can find useful as well :) Cheers
     
  2. Have you performed bloodtests on DHT before and after trying to increase it?
    It rose?
     
  3. Sugar does not decrease androgens they said when you eat sugar it lowers test by 40% well thats anytime you eat food not sugars fault that it lowers blood androgens in the day

    Id add b6
    Glycine
    Taurine
    Androsterone
    Tribulus but the right concentration
    Coffee lots
    Nicotine to inhibit breakdown to weaker metabolites
    Sugar and cholesterol vitamin A and t3
    Raw a2 milk up to a gallon a day
     
  4. Following.
    I have had some great reactions to DHT from females. However, DHT does increase aldosterone , and I always feel some type of volume expansion, or a fuller appearance.
    After some new finding this week, I feel that a DHT Metabolite or a DHEA metabolite as haidut stated in a thread , is responsible for MPB. I'm very interested in finding ways to keep DHT as DHT and not 3adiol.
     
  5. Unfortunately haven't before/after tested my DHT, it was hard enough to get T. That has risen over a multi-year span period (from 500ish range to 900ish range), the last year or so where I started incorporating Peat, but also being smart about burning out less at the gym.

    Nice, I'll put in some thread edits. Would also appreciate studies/sources, especially for suspect or debatable ones.
     
  6. Nicotine stops dht breakdown to 3adiol
     
  7. I would love to learn about more powerful compounds however not much research goes into dht boosters I think tribulus andro and dhea are the best and safest options with positive feedback loops
     
  8. Are they all Over The Counter? Or accessible enough online?

    What do you mean by positive feedback loops?
     
  9. All are yes and they do not supress hpta axis when used in logical doses so they do not create I'm balances in stress or reproductive hormones in studies
     
  10. Does anyone have information on sorghum and dht other than vitro studies @haidut are you fimiliar with sorghum extracts mechanism on 5ar?
     
  11. @Cameron, cool thanks for info on nicotine. I wonder what the safest , healthiest way to get it. would be nice if idealabs had a nicotine sup.
     
  12. Nicorette gums?
     
  13. I'm working on one :) nicotine gums out there have many toxic additives
     
  14. The best nicotine route I have found is the patches. I got them from the doctor 1 month ago and they are discrete and for peace of mind as it requires no effort on my part. The patch is constantly releasing steady supply of nicotine, mine are from the doctor and have 114 mg of nicotine in each patch but I think 21 mg makes it into the body over 24 hours, but I take it off before bed.

    I did use the gum which some people may find useful because of the xylitol and nicotine in the gum but what happened was I damaged the skin on my lips and septum from chewing all day long.
     
  15. Following this thread. Add butea superba to the possible DHT boosting effects. I've used it almost daily since early August. I don't have any conclusive evidence asides from anecdotal feelings (which can be fickle at best), but there's a study mentioned over on the Anabolic Men site (edited this post to say that I have no stake whatsoever in that site; just stating where I found the upcoming info -- that site is how I found out about Ray Peat) about a guy in Thailand using a big dose of it and his DHT levels becoming sky high. I also like using 5 grams of creatine per day and 4-8mg of nicotine gum per day. I'm a big time believer in using chelated magnesium (glycinate). I had a headache every single day of the year in 2014 (no joke) and they didn't subside until I began taking magnesium. No matter what, I take 500mg per day. Asides from that, I feel wonderful being out in the sunshine during the summer, but where I live (eastern U.S.), it is now dark and dreary... cold... with hardly any sunshine, so I'm supplementing with 5,000-10,000 IU of vitamin D a few times a week along with some K2. I'm a big time caffeine guy, as well.

    I also supplement with vitamin E (natural with mixed tocopherols), boron and cistanche deserticola. I try to use sorghum in recipes when I can and have some sorghum syrup I consume a couple times a week as well in addition to taking a supplement that contains some sorghum. Just thinking off the top of my head here about what I use.

    I've felt quite great, all things considered. My life has been a hectic pit of stress lately. My mother had a stroke last week. Between that, trying to make the final push to getting my degree and working my ass off, I feel fairly calm and in control of my life even though from the outside looking in, things are spiraling. Not sure if my diet and supplements are assisting in that, but I suppose they are. I'd like to go get my levels checked, since all of this is anecdotal experiences.
     
  16. To get the maximum output you'll need to eat as little fat as possible while keeping saturated:unsaturated fat ratio high. That doesn't mean to eat lots of saturated fat but to eat enough sugar to create the necessary saturated fats(palmitic and stearic acid) for you. Those fatty acids won't interfere with the enzymes needed for steroid metabolism and are very pro thyroid in general.
    My personal experience with nicotine(from cigarettes) hasn't been very positive. Whenever i smoke for more than a week, i get constant cold feet and almost non existent libido whereas without i'm able to ejaculate even 7 times per day without any brain fog or tiredness afterwards. It could be the chemicals and the estrogenic smoke that are responsible for that, who knows.
     
  17. Green tea lowers or raises dht, research is conflicting. When I drink a cup, I get a bit more hairloss, more itchiness on the scalp.
     
  18. ı wouldn't increase DHT too much it is hpta supressive it is always thought that estrogen is hpta supressive which is true but dht is also eats your testosterone via negative feedback even it is body's own dht
     
  19. Niacinamide, Glycine and low dose topical DHEA are very Pro-androgenic and boost DHT.
    Zinc sometimes feels very androgenic, sometimes doesn't. Too much zinc isn't good because it antagonizes copper.
     
  20. Dht eats testosterone via negative feedback?

    I've heard DHT promotes its own synthesis via positive feedback.

    I get that DHT is converted from Testosterone via 5AR.

    What are the characteristics of someone who might be high DHT:T ratio vs a low ratio? All other things being constant. Interesting thought experiment.
     
  21. The only thing I've seen that can supress is high dose dht derivative steroids not any evidence natural increase supress test however more 5ar will convert more test to dht so less blood levels of test
     
  22. And dht does increase 5ar so it's not really a suppression as it is a more potent conversion of androgens
     
  23. Eh ermmm 7 days a day, did I read that correct ?
     
  24. check this.
     
  25. That is very interesting seems average healthy level is about a 1:1 blood level example 600ng test 600 ng dht for balance good anabolism and androgenic traits
     
  26. Too high blood levels may be showing tissues lacking the androgens @haidut have you seen this chart above? Interesting
     
  27. Wouldove to see a chart Like this with use of Androsterone in males or low dose dht to see changes favor test or dht
     
  28. Yes, good chart indeed. Yet another example of how underestimated DHT is and how dangerous all current therapies for suppressing are. DHT is probably what keeps T from aromatizing in males, so if you have high T but below average DHT then this is more dangerous than either 1:1 ratio or ratio in favor of DHT. Probably why all the bodybuilders injecting massive amount of T are not very healthy, as many of them take finasteride or other 5-AR blockers to keep DHT levels low.
    Btw, DHT is also anabolic, it just gets metabolized quickly into 3a-diol in people with high fat deposits. Highly anabolic chemicals like Anavar are DHT-based. So, in lean people DHT is probably at least as anabolic as T.
     
  29. Crap, my latest labs are testosterone 636 ng and my DHT 27. I had taken one dutasteride , a week before the DHT test. I know , big dumb ass mistake. Now I'm on a mission to regain my DHT back or get to at least 50ng. Liver 5a reductase needs to get restored. Finasteride and Dutasteride don't just lower DHT, they disable the liver 5a enzyme.
     
  30. I would add Safed Musli to the list of enhancers.
     
  31. Where do you get your hands on raw a2 milk?
     
  32. In Tennessee from my amish farm unfortunately illegal to sell in some states
     
  33. I need to look more into this keep hearing about it
     
  34. Thanks. Have a store I can go to as well. Need to get back on it. So delicious.
     
  35. I think I read that Androsterone is very good at raising DHT
     
  36. anybody thinks spinach is pro dht and testosterone?
     
  37. the part you dont understand my point is ım not saying dht is evil hormone its good if you have low-normal testosterone high estrogen(aging men)dht will protect you in this scenario because it has e2 lowering effects and will protect you from getting ***s and might lean you a bit also some mood uplift but at the same time its binds SHBG so strongly that it lowers shbg this is paradoxical because it will lead to higher free t=higher dht higher estrogen(more supression) since dht more dominant than estrogen you become dht dominant low shbg low total testosterone guy.At the end, my point is if one has extremely high dht levels he most likely will have reduced lh levels and lowered testosterone this happens because body wants to protect you from dht and estrogen related diseases.People who have too high dht and low testosterone will only get gains from finasteride providing estrogen in range.Less oily skin less hairloss higher energy levels more muscle mass finasteride is anti aging if dht is too high.


    Luteinizing hormone pulsatility in subjects with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency and decreased dihydrotestosterone production. | Request PDF
    https://thinksteroids.com/steroid-profiles/dht/ last paragraph
    Studies on the Feedback Regulation of Gonadotropin Concentrations in Male Rats (III).
     
  38. Can you provide further info on this?
    This would be great if true for several reasons for underweighted males with low fat (like me):
    1.- High dosages are kinda well tolerated and not so harmful in the long term
    2.- Usually haves positive effect on sexual performance
    3.- You could, theorically, get more muscle without getting more fat or estrogen
     
  39. What u guys think about DHT gels?

    I read about Titan DHT Gel and some people saying they are scam/fake.

    And we have Allsaints but they are expensive and apparently
    out of stock.

    Any other alternatives?
     
  40. That would be really interesting if it was, as it would give credence to Popeye and his spinach.

    I can relay that as a teenager I had cravings for spinach and mushrooms—maybe my body needed them for building up androgens, if I’m wording that properly.
     
  41. I read on anabolicaphex that spinach has androstenedione (http://anabolicapex.com/2016/05/08/how-to-boost-dht/)
     
  42. Provide more info on what? I thought it was pretty descriptive. Most bodybuilders agree with it too and the only reason they do not like using DHT directly is that it gets quickly metabolized by 3a-HSD in muscle. But they love non-metabolizable DHT-type steroids like Anavar, and Drostanolone.
     
  43. Nowhere did I say you said DHT is evil or that one should have sky-high DHT levels. I just pointed out that IF one has to choose between rock bottom and sky high DHT levels, the latter is probably a lot less dangerous despite mainstream medicine pushing for DHT being as low as possible with advancing age.
    Btw, low LH/FSH are not really bad as they are pituitary hormones and associated with cancer just like TSH. A study with high dose DHT found that neither T nor estrogen is really needed for proper sexual activity in older males and completely suppressing LH/FSH, estradiol and T with higher dose DHT was not associated with bad outcome. If anything, the men were in better health. So, DHT is quite capable of filling in for T's roles, and the minor decrease in bone density is probably related to the suppression of progesterone and DHEA that such high dose DHT would cause. Lower DHT dose or adding some progesterone/DHEA (as Peat has suggested to people using endpoint steroids) usually prevents these issues.

    Male sexual function can be maintained without aromatization: randomized placebo-controlled trial of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in healthy, older me... - PubMed - NCBI
    "...RESULTS: DHT treatment increased serum DHT with complete suppression of serum T, luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, and estradiol throughout the 24-month study resulting in reduced spinal bone density. There were no spontaneous complaints, or discontinuations for, adverse effects on sexual function during the study. DHT administration had no effects on any of 33 measures of sexual function and mood, apart from a mild, but significant decrease in overall sexual desire, which was reversible after cessation of treatment. Increasing age and less often increasing BMI were associated with significant decreases in most aspects of sexual function."

    The optimal situation is to have strong gonadal response to small, pulsatile LH/FSH release. This is how it works when we are young and in older males LH/FSH pulses are way too high for optimal health. Worst of all, there are really no pulses in older males - LH/FSH stay elevated 24x7. Thyroid and pregnenolone/DHEA can sometimes restore gonadal sensitivity to LH/FSH. However, if the gonadal sensitivity to LH/FSH cannot be restored for some people in advanced age then it is arguably better to have high DHT (usually through supplementation) and suppressed LH/FSH, estradiol, T than supplement with T or (even worse) hCG, GnRH, etc. This realization has led to some doctors calling for DHT being used for andropause instead of T since it is safer and can lower estrogen, which is one of the primary reasons for gonadal dysfunction in older males. And most "controversially" of all, unlike T therapy DHT therapy actually reduces prostate size.
    Transdermal dihydrotestosterone treatment of 'andropause'. - PubMed - NCBI
    Should the Nonaromatizable Androgen Dihydrotestosterone Be Considered as an Alternative to Testosterone in the Treatment of the Andropause?
     
  44. are you sure about this? i eat a lot of sugar and intuitively i'd say you're right, but some people have been posting these anti-sugar studies here lately, which claim that too high sugar consumption could cause the body to become unable to regulate androgen levels, etc.
     
  45. Where can we get androsterone?
     
  46. idealabs
     
  47. Only 14 months later. Thanks for this. Don’t know why I didn’t notice it originally. Too bad the link is no longer working.