The Dance of Mandance

[mandance]

Oh it does? Damn..i wonder if thats why I felt good hahha. Yeah I need to buy some more. Is it safe to consume so much sugar without protein to go with it? I guess I worry about the possible risks but I dont know enough about sugar for sure. It seems like if someone had an efficient thyroid and metabolism...you could end any amount of sugar...but what about diabetes risks or other risks from taking in a lot of sugar? I tried researching this on here actually.

 

[4peatssake]

Mandance, the reason you did so well that day was because you ate so much sugar.
Your brain needs sugar to heal.
Our brains need sugar. They crave sugar. Sugar is what is going to heal you.
If I were you, I'd keep reading what Ray sent you. Read it even if you don't understand it. You will with time. There is energy even in his words. Focus on that.
If you can't do anything else, listen to an audio. All you have to do is press play.
I did not see anywhere in the information he sent you, a recommendation to reintroduce a poison to your system to then taper off it slowly. I would NEVER tell anyone what they should or should not do, we all must make our own choices. But I did notice what he said and what he did not say to you.
It is very important to pay attention both to what he says and what he did not say.
You asked in another thread about the safety of men taking progestrone and I would suggest it may be best to ask Ray about that as your situation is so unique.

You have lots of support here.
And you can do this.

 

[charlie]

Take it with some gelatin. Since you are having a problem eating, I think doing what you did the day before you had your best results by eating ice cream and lot of OJ seemed to do the trick.

They use to fix diabetes with massive amounts of sugar back in the day.

 

[4peatssake]

Oh it does? Damn..i wonder if thats why I felt good hahha. Yeah I need to buy some more. Is it safe to consume so much sugar without protein to go with it? I guess I worry about the possible risks but I dont know enough about sugar for sure. It seems like if someone had an efficient thyroid and metabolism...you could end any amount of sugar...but what about diabetes risks or other risks from taking in a lot of sugar? I tried researching this on here actually.

Read all Ray's articles on sugar.
Sugar is going to heal you.
Look what happened when you ate a ton of it.
You need to eat a minimum of 80 grams of protein a day.
If I were you I would add sugar to everything so you can both feed and HEAL your brain.
Don't be afraid of sugar. We have been taught lies by this culture - especially about sugar and coffee.
These are important to us. Extremely important for our healing.
It's important to also remember that your thoughts now are not clear due to coming off the poison.
This is when I counsel people - Don't Think. Do.
I also recommend that you follow a single set of guidelines or you will create a cacophony of confusion within yourself.

 

[mandance]

Alright, thanks guys. Yeah..ill keep reading and studying. I know there is no way he would recommend getting back on those pills but this is pure torture and im very afraid it might last a long time. I know the longer you got without medication, the harder it is to reinstate but I do believe the brain can heal with time. Thanks guys, ill try to take in more sugar today...getting protein is hard because I dont want to eat...I use gelatin though in my OJ.

Oh yeah, does anyone know where I can send Peat a check to? I feel bad with my questions to him and want to donate but wasnt sure where to send. Thanks again everyone. The support means more than you know.

Its odd...I was on this same drug before, effexor XR...and I got off much easier when I was 24 or so...and felt good for like 3 months...then panic attacks like crazy. This time its much different..not much anxiety though. At least not yet. Anyhow...thanks again. I cant believe these drugs are legal...

 

[charlie]

Raymond Peat
P.O. Box 5764
Eugene, OR 97405

 

[4peatssake]

I know there is no way he would recommend getting back on those pills

He would if he believed doing that would help you.

 

[HDD]

Mandance, do you like milkshakes? Ice cream, milk, sugar, maybe a few ice cubes. Is it sunny there? Sitting outside for a little while can do wonders.

 

[Peata]

Over the different times I went off SSRI's, there were times I withdrew relatively fast (since the pills can only be cut so small, and a couple times I went very slowly using the liquid. Going very slowly with the liquid and allowing myself time to adjust at each new dose was a huge help. I could stay at that dose as long as I needed, and then lower again very slowly. Still, going off it completely had its hard times, but at least the transition was easier. I have heard, and you should ask your doctor about this, that you can still use liquid Paxil even if you were on another SSRI to begin with, since they work similarly. The last time I went off an SSRI was in 2009, so there may be liquids in other meds now. My doctor (GP) at the time did not even know there was a liquid Paxil until I told him, and he looked it up in a book. It was a large bottle, tasted like orange cream. It's your choice whether you want to go this route.

Definitely take the diet advice given here. Lots of the Peat diet protocols such as sugar. Magnesium might help. Do you take Epsom salt baths? Also I seem to remember I used Benadryl to get through some of the worst times. The children's version might be useful and easy to take. But ask your doctor first in case there's any sort of contraindication with your SSRI.

 

[Peata]

As I said, it was years ago when I last tapered, but I recall tapering with the liquid Paxil for 3 months. I timed the worst of it when I went off completely to land during a couple weeks when I was between jobs. So I could be home on the couch if needed. But it took at least a month after going off completely to feel anywhere near normal, and that was with a very gradual taper.

If I ever find my old "tapering journal" I'll be sure to put more precise info. I am not sure what I did with it. I never thought anymore on withdrawal once it was behind me, I just was so happy to go on with life. It's kind of a period of my life I like having in my past and I didn't think I'd have need to think on it again. But if my experiences are any help to you or others, then I'm glad that's another positive thing that could come out of the ordeal.

Anyway, Mandance, the choices are all yours, it's just whatever you think you want to do. Only you know yourself that well. I do know it's a hell to come off these meds, and I'm sorry for what you are going through.

 

[4peatssake]

Doctors who prescribe ssri's are the very last people I would ask for advice - about anything.

Ray Peat's life work is much more than "dietary advice."

7. What impact would you like to see your research make on society? Reaching the largest amount of people? or a certain type of person? Or are you completely detached from the outcome?

I’d like to see it lead to the disestablishment of medicine. The same general outcomes Ivan Illich worked for. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDr71LHO0Jo)

 

[mandance]

I know Peat would not recommend getting back on those pills, but at the same time..the level of suffering is crazy and I can see why many people get back on them and try to taper off them slowly to try and minimize the amount of suffering so that you can still function as a person. That is the dilemma, because cant afford to be like this long etc. But i get what you are saying. I think I just need to try and force some sort of schedule on myself so I can feel normal. Like waking up at the same time every day, getting walks in, getting enough protein etc. Feels like a fight for my own sanity. Sun is out, do need more of that....ive been supping vitamin D..my levels are low. Seattle doesnt get much sun most of the year.

Peata, yeah it seems there is a lack of success stories of people getting off, but I think its because once people feel normal again, they would rather not revisit that part..or the mind tends to forget about it and move on which makes sense. I think hearing your story and what you went through is very positive and gives me a lot of hope. It makes me feel a bit better knowing people have survived and are living life now.

My symptoms seem to be improving so maybe ill keep trying to go farther. Chest pain, muscle spasms and arm numbness gone...ive been able to sleep more...I think I have been able to fall asleep the past 3 nights without any problems. What remains is still dizziness...might be lack of protein though, worse fogginess, headaches...going away though...disconnection..helplessness, lots of crying which is odd for me. Lots of pain surfacing, guilt etc. I feel like I want to apologize to all these people in my life for no reason etc.

I should keep a journal as well, so that it maybe be of help to someone someday. Funny thing is I finally feel more emotion again. Me and my mom arent very close, but I finally had a break down...and she came around...just from that one moment I feel closer to her again than I have in a long time. Thanks again everyone. I hope you are all doing well and enjoying the summer.

 

[mandance]

Journals from the past few days


7/29/2013

Emotion, lots of crying, diconnected still. Hard to think focus. Motor functions feel impaired. This is 2 weeks off pills, 1 month into withdrawals.
Chest pain is gone
muscle twitching reduced
arm numbness gone

Sleeping better and insomnia seems to be going away, less adrenal shock at night. Cortisol perhaps?

Not much anxiety to report either. Depression is high, but that is due to fear and feeling hopeless from this nightmare.Feel hot, frontal lobe feels odd as well.
Brain fog is worse.


Although some of the extreme problems went away...its getting harder to work or do anything. I feel very weak, mentally and physically.



7/30/2013

Took awhile to fall asleep last night, felt stressed out and uneasy. I still feel somewhat stressed and depressed today. Fog is still pretty bad. I dont feel as dizzy or disconnected feeling today though.
Digestion is really bad..fog problems still bad with memory cognitive thinking etc. I still feel weak and with little hope or will for life.
Im pretty scared still and feel like i have been having some long term problems and that my health has been getting worse for years.
I dont know if I will ever be able to live a healthy or normal life off or on pills but it seems getting off of them has made pre-existing issues like brain fog and cogntive problems, which ive had for a year now...worse. Also fatigue is worse.

I read this article viewtopic.php?f=19&t=292&p=837&hilit=low+testosterone#p837

it suggests long term exposure to estrogen, and comprmised stomach could really be the reason why I am the way I am and why my prostate is now hurting off and on despite taking antibiotics.
These times are hard, but having fear that exposure to these pills since childhood has caused some very serious complications has be worried. I dont feel anxiety though...I just know there are some serious problems going on here and I dont think its 100 percent withdrawal, as I have felt worse for a few years now...keeps getting worse. No one has any answers however, but low testosterone is telling,
maybe I should take more pregnenolone to help.
Also feel less emotional/crying today but really sad. I feel worse knowing im putting friends and family through this but im completely helpless almost at this point, thought im forcing myself to eat and take walks. I think the more articles on Peat i read, or anything having to do with health, are making me more hopeless and depressed.

Trying hard to stay positive and strong though, trying to keep hope for a good future alive.

 

[mandance]

I wanted to write something positive here. I took some pregnenolone last night, The results were very positive. I feel like im still feeling their effects today. Really seemed to make me a bit more calm and feel better overall. I will report back more...im going to keep taking it maybe every couple of days. I also want to do this to see if it raises my low testosterone when I go to the endo and the end of August.

 

[charlie]

That is great!! How much did you take?

 

[mandance]

That is great!! How much did you take?

I took 50mg from beyond a century I believe? I also took it with a pint of haagen daaz :)

 

[charlie]

I seems like the ice cream is really helping you too!

 

[Peata]

Glad you're doing better, Mandance! Keep us updated.

 

[mandance]

Yeah today is much better as far as my outlook goes. I have the support of my family and friends and therapist to keep going and that feels good. My outlook is better, im pushing myself to do things to feel normal still like going on walks, go hit some golf balls etc. Funny how much closer this is bringing my family together its really nice.

I still feel like ive had a lobotomy but hopefully in time it will pass. Extreme brain fog makes my vision weird and hard to think or recall memories or connect the dots. Did you guys experience this? Other than that...just gonna keep up the sugar, ice cream, OJ...Gelatin...ive been getting more protein as well...taking some B-1 also and magneisum ...also vitamin D.

Just ordered a ton of gelatin....going to make a bunch of jello with it. Cortisol anxiety issues have been kinda rough..hard to fall asleep but I dont wake up in the night at all.

I think im going to start adding 1/16th of a cynoplus before bed now also along with pregenolone. Start slow, like Charlie said...for a few weeks. See if I can handle it and not get that extreme fatigue again.

It will be really interesting what my testosterone numbers come back looking like after a month of cynoplus and preg...also hope it helps bring back my cognitive system...although im sure my brain is just going nuts trying to figure out how to adapt again so it could be awhile. I had this issue for a year but not this extreme...I suspect these pills and stress, might have had something to do with it all along...it often feels like my frontal lobe will hurt or feel hot. Thanks for checking in on me guys.

 

[mandance]

7/31/2013

Yeah today is much better as far as my outlook goes. I have the support of my family and friends and therapist to keep going and that feels good.
My outlook is better, im pushing myself to do things to feel normal still like going on walks,
go hit some golf balls etc. Funny how much closer this is bringing my family together its really nice.

I still feel like ive had a lobotomy but hopefully in time it will pass. Extreme brain fog makes
my vision weird and hard to think or recall memories or connect the dots. Did you guys experience this?
Other than that...just gonna keep up the sugar, ice cream, OJ...Gelatin...ive been getting more protein as well...
taking some B-1 also and magneisum ...also vitamin D.

Just ordered a ton of gelatin....going to make a bunch of jello with it. Cortisol anxiety issues have been kinda rough.
.hard to fall asleep but I dont wake up in the night at all.

I think im going to start adding 1/16th of a cynoplus before bed now also along with pregenolone.
Start slow, like Charlie said...for a few weeks. See if I can handle it and not get that extreme fatigue again.

It will be really interesting what my testosterone numbers come back looking like after a month of cynoplus and preg...
also hope it helps bring back my cognitive system...although im sure my brain is just
going nuts trying to figure out how to adapt again so it could be awhile. I had this issue for a year but not this extreme...
I suspect these pills and stress, might have had something to do with it all along...it often feels like my frontal lobe will hurt


8/1/2013

today I feel better rested, less foggy, less crappy overall. Seems like a lot of improvements are going on, although I still dont feel normal yet by any means...I still feel in this fragile state. I need to go out in public more and test it out. Still
suffering cognitive problems, still feel sluggish and sortuv like a zombie. I managed to do a painting though after work. I hope cognitive function continues to improve with time.
Since getting off, ive dropped 7lbs
Headache/fog getting worse as the day goes on.
Headache/vision fog progressively worse. I feel really disconnected and brain dead. blah I thought getting off these pills would help with that issue but it seems to be making it worse.

It seems like this is the biggest test ive yet to face in my life. Its odd how when everything falls apart, you can see what it is ma