The Culprit Is PUFA And I Will Remove Them Fast. (Severe Acne, IBS, Fatigue)

TeaRex14

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I was under the impression that fat tissue prefer to meet own energy needs by oxidizing saturated fat. This concentrates the PUFA in fat stores. But when you start to circulate the fat stores the PUFA is first to come out.
When any sort of endurance exercise is practiced, like running for example, or cycling, this stimulates an accelerated amount of lipolysis (beyond what's achieved at resting). So the more fat that is being liberated the more PUFA that's being liberated, naturally. But this typically isn't healthy for most people, or really any people. Some people are affected worse then other though. I remember before I gave up endurance exercises I would always have a massive stress response, and begin freezing in my hands and feet. It's probably best to limit lipolysis through omitting extra fat burning via intense exercise. Preferably also using things like aspirin and niacinamide to even further slow fat burning. The healthiest way to lose body fat is low and slow, which no fat person wants to hear, lol. But when you start eating these ketogenic diets and carnivore diets you really ramp up cortisol production which accelerates fat burning, thus causing an increase in PUFA burning as well.
 

charlie

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If we look at his post, I don't think a fruitarian diet helped his holistic health, it only helped his skin. He stated that he felt crummy while on a raw vegan diet, which isn't fruitarian but very close to it, but he had clear skin! I think it should be fairly evident that clear skin is not the sole sign of good health, and if he felt terrible with low energy and fatigue, than the raw vegan (and by extension fruitarian?) diet should not be used.
He had some major detox going on, of course he felt bad. He is extremely acidic, hence the acids oozing out his skin via acne eruptions. If he would have supported the kidneys and took the proper measures he could limit the detox symptoms.

I'm only trying to help
Me too. :hattip


but I've grown quite partial against extreme diets....
Nothing extreme about it at all.

"Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."

Easy peasy.
 

Runenight201

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I fundamentally don't believe in detox, and I think it can be used to justify practices that aren't bringing better health. Now it could be the case that there are instances when this does actually occur, but how does one differentiate detox from deteriorating health?

For instance, in OP's case, he felt terrible for a whole year? I don't believe this to be serious detox. I believe the organism is inherently self-correcting, and that better health can be reached in an instant so long as the correct food and environment are provided for.

I've come to this conclusion from my own personal observations, and so I certainly can't conclude this for others, but I will most certainly conclude for myself that detox is a load of baloney.
 

lvysaur

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I'm not sure yours are keloids as much as they're hypertrophic scars.
Yeah, I also forgot to mention this. The scars don't look like keloids. This is a keloid:

keloid-scar-D108HC-660x330.jpg
 

TeaRex14

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Fruitarian and fruit based are two different things. A fruitarian eats nothing but fruit, whereas a fruit based diet that includes some extra sources of protein is probably a lot better. If I had access to fresh, ripe tropical fruits year round I would probably eat a 75% to 80% fruit based diet. But the closest I can get is just eating mangoes, papayas, raw honey, cooked apples, orange juice, and grape juice. I have found out through trial and error I respond better to fruits and natural sugar rather then refined sugars like sucrose and coke. Maybe it's all the extra minerals in the fruit or something, idk. But when I replaced all my fruit with coke for a single day to see what would happen I started to get cold (stressed) towards the end of the day. So I try to keep about only 1/3rd of my total sugar intake from refined sources now.
 

charlie

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I've come to this conclusion from my own personal observations, and so I certainly can't conclude this for others, but I will most certainly conclude for myself that detox is a load of baloney.
I disagree. The incredible amount of sulfur leaving my body right now also disagrees with you.
 

Runenight201

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Fruitarian and fruit based are two different things. A fruitarian eats nothing but fruit, whereas a fruit based diet that includes some extra sources of protein is probably a lot better. If I had access to fresh, ripe tropical fruits year round I would probably eat a 75% to 80% fruit based diet. But the closest I can get is just eating mangoes, papayas, raw honey, cooked apples, orange juice, and grape juice. I have found out through trial and error I respond better to fruits and natural sugar rather then refined sugars like sucrose and coke. Maybe it's all the extra minerals in the fruit or something, idk. But when I replaced all my fruit with coke for a single day to see what would happen I started to get cold (stressed) towards the end of the day. So I try to keep about only 1/3rd of my total sugar intake from refined sources now.

What a utopia it would be if we could all have 24/7 access to the ripest of fruits. If someone could economically make this happen I do think they would make a killing.

Since I don't live in that utopia, I have personally found that OJ to be the closest thing to it, and it's been working well for me, and I can see why Peat also does the same. There are times however when I distinctly want pure sucrose, and no fruit will do. Perhaps if I've been exposed to the wonders of the ripest of the most exotic fruits that would change, but for now some fruit punch soda tricks my brain into feeling just as good =P

I disagree. The incredible amount of sulfur leaving my body right now also disagrees with you.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. Perhaps my perception is flawed and I do undergo detox when I immediately feel better upon consuming the correct foods and being placed in the correct environments, but I highly doubt that to be the case.
 

charlie

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I think we will have to agree to disagree. Perhaps my perception is flawed and I do undergo detox when I immediately feel better upon consuming the correct foods and being placed in the correct environments, but I highly doubt that to be the case.
No doubt that the right foods(and environment) can suppress, until it can't any more. :hattip
 

TeaRex14

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What a utopia it would be if we could all have 24/7 access to the ripest of fruits. If someone could economically make this happen I do think they would make a killing.

Since I don't live in that utopia, I have personally found that OJ to be the closest thing to it, and it's been working well for me, and I can see why Peat also does the same. There are times however when I distinctly want pure sucrose, and no fruit will do. Perhaps if I've been exposed to the wonders of the ripest of the most exotic fruits that would change, but for now some fruit punch soda tricks my brain into feeling just as good =P
Yeah, sucrose is definitely a killer fuel source, I just need extra minerals to metabolize it properly I guess.
 

Vinero

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I fundamentally don't believe in detox, and I think it can be used to justify practices that aren't bringing better health. Now it could be the case that there are instances when this does actually occur, but how does one differentiate detox from deteriorating health?

For instance, in OP's case, he felt terrible for a whole year? I don't believe this to be serious detox. I believe the organism is inherently self-correcting, and that better health can be reached in an instant so long as the correct food and environment are provided for.

I've come to this conclusion from my own personal observations, and so I certainly can't conclude this for others, but I will most certainly conclude for myself that detox is a load of baloney.
I think (and Ray Peat has mentioned it too) that having good liver function is imporant to detoxify estrogen and other toxins.Feeding the liver protein, sugar and B-vitamins for example energizes the liver and enhances its detoxing capabilities. Starving, or not eating protein will make the liver underperform. So dieting or fruitarian diet is counterproductive if your goal is to detox.
 

Stramonium

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After years of battling with mild acne I found that keeping estrogen at bay would give me good looking skin. It took many changes in diet and strictly eating at home plus some supplements to help counteract estrogen dominance such as aspirin, liver, oysters, etc... . Acne is definitely mediated by estrogen and PUFA exacerbates its dominance. Progesterone along with a good diet will give you amazing skin :rightagain2
 
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Runenight201

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Are there any chances of pregnenolone worsening male hair loss? I bought some and I’m eager to try it but I’m very hesitant. I have read that hair loss can be a side effect.

I think (and Ray Peat has mentioned it too) that having good liver function is imporant to detoxify estrogen and other toxins.Feeding the liver protein, sugar and B-vitamins for example energizes the liver and enhances its detoxing capabilities. Starving, or not eating protein will make the liver underperform. So dieting or fruitarian diet is counterproductive if your goal is to detox.

Very cool. Aren't triglycerides produced in the liver as well? A lab result of high triglycerides would also implicate liver problems, and giving an underperforming organ a large amount of fructose to deal with I feel like is counter productive towards "detoxing"

Now I think I should correct myself and state that of course detox occurs, because our body does have to get rid of waste, but I don't believe that detox needs to be a negative experience, especially a prolonged one. Furthermore, I don't think any special diet or routine needs to be undertaken in order to facilitate this removal of waste from our body besides eating a pro-metabolic diet that provides plenty of bioavailable nutrients, protein, sugars, and fats. At least this was the case for me, which is why I don't personally believe in detox being a negative experience that one has to go through. Once I started ramping up my meat and egg consumption (providing plenty of quality proteins), and included other little tricks like real chocolate milk (make the milk easier to digest), and kept the fruit/sugar constant, while lowering the amount of difficult to digest starch (at least in my case, which an excessive amount of can cause bloat and indigestion), I started to feel incredibly strong, confident, energized, with much better sleep.

No negative detox experience necessary, but I can't speak for everyone, so that's why I will speak for my personal case. I also had elevated triglycerides in lab results, along with high estrogen, along with a history of excessive alcohol consumption, and acne as well, so my liver was most definitely impaired.
 

TeaRex14

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I think (and Ray Peat has mentioned it too) that having good liver function is imporant to detoxify estrogen and other toxins.Feeding the liver protein, sugar and B-vitamins for example energizes the liver and enhances its detoxing capabilities. Starving, or not eating protein will make the liver underperform. So dieting or fruitarian diet is counterproductive if your goal is to detox.
That is true, however if you just add 1 quart of milk and 1 serving of red meat you'll get all the protein and missing nutrients that fruit alone won't provide. I think the importance relies in avoiding fads, like veganism for instance.
 

charlie

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Progesterone along with a good diet will give you amazing skin
Supplementing progesterone is alkalinizing, same as high dose vitamin D that many are jumping on. Again, simply suppressing, not fixing the root cause of acidosis.
...or not eating protein will make the liver underperform.
I am not seeing that. Getting plenty of amino acids from fruit, estrogen symptoms less now then the last 5 years, edema is pouring off.
 
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Stramonium

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Supplementing progesterone is alkalinizing, same as high dose vitamin D that many are jumping on. Again, simply suppressing, not fixing the root cause of acidosis.

I am not seeing that. Getting plenty of amino acids from fruit, estrogen symptoms less now then the last 5 years, edema is pouring off.

How would you go about reducing acidosis?
 
OP
Searchoftruth

Searchoftruth

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I think fasting/fruitarian works is because it’s so easy to digest the very ripe fruits compared to other foods.
Have you ever tried eating very slowly and having like 6-7 mini meals throughout the day vs big meals? Also tried using enzymes and betaine hcl to aid digestion?

I think all undigested foods are poisonous, just some are more prone to the indigestion than others. For me any high fat foods are the hardest to digest for sure. Honestly I would just do a fast again and then slowly transition into eating very slowly and spread out throughout the day.

I tried to eat many small meals, I hate it though. I like the freedom to be able to eat only 2 or 3 times per day , without having to carry around all the time some snacks. When I was carnivore I ate only twice a day because I would not be hungry for 6 or 8 hours after my big meals. I found eating only meat quite easily to digest. Some of the hardest foods to digest that I have found were vegetables, like broccolli, onions and beans. I think I had a problem with FODMAPS actually.
You say to fast and then come back to eating. What kind of diet? I am trying the fruitarian diet again ATM. Carnivore no more. Once healed from the acne I will introduce dairy, for the Calcium, B12, selenium and protein lacking in the fruitarian diet.
 

Vinero

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symptoms less now then the last 5 years, edema is po
Interesting. So you are doing an all fruit diet now? Fruit does have amino acids but you have to eat a LOT of fruit to get to the amount of protein that Ray recommends. It would get too expensive for most people to do that. Although the amino acid composition might be better than eating animal protein since fruit lacks the inflammatory amino acids. I don't think I've ever seen Ray recommend eating a fruitarian diet. He seems to think animal protein is neccesary for good liver function.
 
OP
Searchoftruth

Searchoftruth

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Spicing up every meal you eat with any gut modulating spice can help. Spices such as turmeric, cumin, oregano, clove, cinnamon, basil, lemongrass, curry leaf, peppers, and pretty much any other traditional spice you can think of can powerfully modulate the gut microbiome. Getting plenty of sun exposure can directly help the damaged tissues as blue and UV light is antimicrobial and red and infrared light stimulates collagen production (all of which is present is sunlight). Lowering estrogen can often help skin conditions so white button mushrooms can be helpful if tolerated. Consistent moderate exercise is a must as it lowers endotoxin and greatly impacts the gut microbiome. Coconut oil can displace PUFA and simulate thyroid function though some people with IBS don't do well with it.

I tried for a whole summer taking sun. LOTS. Sometimes 3 or 4 hours a day, in the midday sun. It didn't heal my acne . It almost made no difference at all, except that the tan hided quite well the scars and the active acne. I tried supplementing high doses of Vitamin D without any success also. Tried Vitamin A, no difference too. I am convinced it is a build up of body fat and PUFA's . This causes the hormones to go haywire, and it causes acne and gut problems.
 
OP
Searchoftruth

Searchoftruth

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I feel personally assaulted!

lol jk but a fruitarian diet isn't sustainable, without great effort and drastic lifestyle changes, and I think the vast majority of people who live on a fruitarian diet run into oral decay and infertility, doesn't really sound like a healthy diet to me. I don't have any stats on this, but it makes sense, at least the oral decay. Fruit is highly acidic and constantly subjecting your teeth to that can't be good over the long run.

If we look at his post, I don't think a fruitarian diet helped his holistic health, it only helped his skin. He stated that he felt crummy while on a raw vegan diet, which isn't fruitarian but very close to it, but he had clear skin! I think it should be fairly evident that clear skin is not the sole sign of good health, and if he felt terrible with low energy and fatigue, than the raw vegan (and by extension fruitarian?) diet should not be used.

I later corrected myself and stated that since he doesn't buy into the pharmaceutical paradigm that he should try many different things to see what works, but cautioned him not to ignore other markers of health in pursuit of clear skin, which he's had a history of doing in the past, and is a trap I also fell for earlier in my health journey. I then stated that when all his health markers are good, his skin will be good as well, which I believe to be useful advice.

I'm only trying to help, perhaps I was too authoritarian with my original post, but I've grown quite partial against extreme diets for the average individual, because I think they hurt more than they help. Certainly there may be some extreme cases which warrant them, but it isn't the first line of defense for the average, low health fatigued individual.

Well, I was undereating most of the time as a raw vegan. I never counted calories, and had no real knowledge about what nutrients where in each food. So I became underweight. That alone will cause fatigue in anyone. I am not planning to remain a fruitarian after healing acne, but I will introduce dairy and some higher protein foods (meat, chicken, legumes, liver , etc) after healing from the acne and the IBS.

PD: You sound authoritarian and too certain about yourself. I think nobody here has the real answer , we are only guessing. I think my own body experience is the most important thing here though.
 
OP
Searchoftruth

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Interesting. So you are doing an all fruit diet now? Fruit does have amino acids but you have to eat a LOT of fruit to get to the amount of protein that Ray recommends. It would get too expensive for most people to do that. Although the amino acid composition might be better than eating animal protein since fruit lacks the inflammatory amino acids. I don't think I've ever seen Ray recommend eating a fruitarian diet. He seems to think animal protein is neccesary for good liver function.

I think you are citing another post lol.
But anyways:
I started doing the fruitarian diet again today. I agree that fruit lacks protein and amino acids. My plan is to do the fruitarian diet just for some months till I heal the acne , and then introduce dairy and some higher protein foods again.
 

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