The Consequences Of Cheese As A Main Source Of Protein

[jyb]

I can eat goat and sheep cheeses without any problems in very large amounts.
Any type of cow cheese or milk will cause severe cystic acne for me after a few days. Even if it's raw, only animal rennet and European cows. Butter doesn't seem to be a problem.
If you look around acne forums online, cow dairy products is probably the most common trigger food that always comes up. What do you think could be the reason for that?

I make the same observation with milk. Reluctantly so, because I really enjoy milk. However, not so much with cheese. I concluded that whatever is triggering acne in milk is broken down by bacteria or removed somehow.

 

[squanch]

I make the same observation with milk. Reluctantly so, because I really enjoy milk. However, not so much with cheese. I concluded that whatever is triggering acne in milk is broken down by bacteria or removed somehow.

Yes, milk is definitely worse than cheese for me too.
I always thought the acne triggering things would either be mainly in the whey portion of milk and/or that milk just doesn't digest as well (large amounts of cold fluids).

Cow cheeses are definitely still a problem for me though. Not as severe as milk, but I will still get a few cysts after eating it daily for a while.

Sheep cheese, goat cheese and butter (regular cow) doesn't cause me any problems.

 

[Amazoniac]

any gurus on here @Amazoniac

: idi
Assuming that you didn't mean Ray fever, which appears as profuse sweating in subscribers that don't receive the newsletter on the expected day; I opened anesthesiology book , chapter Janeller and found this:
Doctoryourself.com - Titration
"Hay fever is controlled in the majority of patients. Bowel tolerance doses are usually required only at the peak of the season; otherwise, more modest doses suffice. Many patients find the effect of ascorbate more satisfactory than immunizations or antihistamines and decongestants. The dosages required are frequently proportional to exposure to the antigen."

http://www.jacionline.org/article/0021-8707(45)90353-4/pdf

[1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/96/2500/497.long​

http://www.williamfkoch.com/web/version2/drkoch.php?id=170.0&dispID=disp(2); disp(3);

"The sensitizing or initiating pathogen may be a synthetic carcinogen that has been dehydrogenated by the FCG during anoxia or the free radical of an incompletely combusted metabolite, a dehydrogenated sulfhydryl bacterial product, or a free radical produced by sunrays in the polymerizing units of a maturing pollen. The latter would be the initiating pathogen in hay fever or asthma."​

So it's reasonable that higher doses of vit C are needed in some cases to reach the tipping point.
I was going to name the substances but you know them.. the respiratory (not literally) kit.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/allergolint/56/2/56_2_113/_pdf

"Flavonoids, in particular luteolin, apigenin and fisetin, possess anti-allergic activities that inhibit histamine, IL-4, IL-13 and CD40 ligand expression by basophils and mast cells."​

__
Now since this thread is about minimizing the potential problems with cheese, if you find a fresh one that is good but too salty, you can just soak it in lime water for some time and it works like a charm. Some string cheeses for example can be salted in excess, and if you consume a lot, the salt can add up.

 

[Travis]

I can eat goat and sheep cheeses without any problems in very large amounts.
Any type of cow cheese or milk will cause severe cystic acne for me after a few days. Even if it's raw, only animal rennet and European cows. Butter doesn't seem to be a problem.
If you look around acne forums online, cow dairy products is probably the most common trigger food that always comes up. What do you think could be the reason for that?

I think it's the androgens, mostly, and it doesn't matter whether they come from goats or sheep.

I think the molecular mechanism is fairly well worked‐out. You can check it yourself, or ask for the experimental data; there are lots of it:

Studies have shown that sebum from people with acne have a higher viscosity, melting point, and characterized by an unbalance of lipids—namely: squalene, wax esters, and triglycerides. Since analytical chemistry is probably the hardest science, I think this is the most certain. The higher molecular weight lipids in acne lead to clogs, with inflammation only secondary to this.

Androgens increase the enzyme wax ester synthase, and shift the balance towards squalene synthesis. It does this transcriptionally working through steroid regulatory element binding protein (SREBP.) When an androgen is put in a dish with cells, then heavier lipids—and enzyme mRNA responsible for producing such lipids—can be detected. This is fairly consistent, and the only other thing which does this to a similar degree is IGF‐1—also acting through SREBP.

Cheese has both IGF‐1 and androgens. Besides having solid physical evidence behind this, these are the two blood determinants most linked to acne epidemiologically. Dairy from cows would be expected to have more IGF‐1 since this is increased by rBGH, despite what Monsanto would have you believe. Recombinant bovine growth hormone is only used on cows.

And besides that, I can tell you I get bacne from cheese which goes away on a vegan diet; like clockwork cycles of cheese‐eating are mirrored by whimsical and often hyperemotional behaviour, in the case of cow cheese, which is paralleled by acne with a latency of a few weeks—in the case of all cheese. The recovery takes longer than the onset; initiation time likely dependent on dose, sex steroid binding protein concentrations, androgen diffusion, and fatty acid ratio. Normal sebum is more fluid, has a lower melting point, and has more free fatty acids. As far as I know, the only thing that causes acne is SREBP: activated exclusively by either androgens or IGF‐1.

Also—and I did just think of this—the opiates found exclusively in cow cheese could numb the intestines, increase transit time, and hence absorption.

And the bacteria found in yogurt and kefir do metabolize steroids to a degree; I think this could be expected to lower the androgen content.

 

[Koveras]

During the Opium Wars, I don't think anyone had given thought to the idea that morphine was interfering with a system already in place, a natural one—and a system which is activated after eating, [sensored], or doing both simultaneously (see Seinfeld episode № 160).

There's some interesting research on the role of opiates in the sexual response and sex hormone production.

I'd been reading about the Coolidge effect where by ..."males (and to a lesser extent females) exhibit renewed sexual interest if introduced to new receptive sexual partners, even after cessation of sex with prior but still available sexual partners"

Named for

"… an old joke about Calvin Coolidge when he was President … The President and Mrs. Coolidge were being shown [separately] around an experimental government farm. When [Mrs. Coolidge] came to the chicken yard she noticed that a rooster was mating very frequently. She asked the attendant how often that happened and was told, "Dozens of times each day." Mrs. Coolidge said, "Tell that to the President when he comes by." Upon being told, the President asked, "Same hen every time?" The reply was, "Oh, no, Mr. President, a different hen every time." President: "Tell that to Mrs. Coolidge.""
​

Anyway - opiate antagonists administered prior to sexual activity might diminish the pleasure and intensity of the experience - but afterwards they have the potential to shorten the refractory period. Overall though, a lower opiate tone will facilitate increased sex hormone levels (along with lower prolactin and serotonin) and increased amounts of sexual activity.

Proceptive behaviours demonstrated towards pastrami after mating with female, no refractory period.

 

[Amazoniac]

Food-derived opioid peptides inhibit cysteine uptake with redox and epigenetic consequences

NAC (cysteine) Increases Melanoma Spread
So perhaps glycine and taurine can ameliorate the consequences as well.

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2017/01/13/manage-glutathione-status/

"Whey protein would be a great example of a food that’s rich in cysteine."

"the first step of glutathione synthesis, the regulated one, is to join glutamate and cysteine together to produce gamma-glutamylcysteine. Gamma-glutamylcysteine is found in the food supply in only two known foods. One is whey protein and one is egg white. It’s very vulnerable to heat and processing, so raw milk has about twice as much gamma-glutamylcysteine as pasteurized milk. Egg whites, I haven’t seen it quantified, but the effect of heat is probably similar there.

This is important because gamma-glutamylcysteine bypasses the first regulated step. So let’s suppose that someone is insulin-resistant. Maybe they’re overweight. Maybe they have a protracted oxidative stress condition that’s causing the insulin resistance. Maybe they are insulin-deficient because of type 1 diabetes. Then they’re going to have trouble with that first step of glutathione synthesis because they’re not getting the insulin response necessary to support the regulation of that first step. So providing gamma-glutamylcysteine bypasses that step and allows you to shortcut any kind of metabolic problems there. So that’s the reason why there’s so much interest in one whey protein and this is undenatured whey protein, as little heat as possible. Pretty much any whey protein product is going to be pasteurized, but it also concentrates the whey fraction. So as long as you have a whey protein product that is not subjected to more heat and processing than necessary, it’s going to be rich in gamma-glutamylcysteine, and whey protein has been shown to raise glutathione status. I don’t think that the studies that are available really clearly tell us how much whey protein you would want to eat when you’re substituting it for another protein. There’s a handful of studies that address this, but they don’t really address it in that way. A lot of times it’s just adding whey protein to the diet, and so it doesn’t really clarify like if you’re eating 150 grams of protein a day how much beef should you replace with whey protein for example. If I had to guess from those studies, I’d say 30 grams of whey protein would be expected to produce a response. If you’re using milk products, I would just say switching from pasteurized milk to raw milk would probably provide a significant benefit there. Keeping in mind that every public health agency condemns the use of raw milk for pathogen-related reasons, I think that if you don’t have a great vulnerability to infection, then I think that I’ll just say I’ve used raw milk plenty in the past, and so I’m not worried about it. However, take responsibility for your own health. I should throw that in there. So that’s gamma-glutamylcysteine."​

So there you have it. One more thing that's lost during processing and can lead to problems in susceptible people that eat cheese in excess.

 

[jyb]

So there you have it. One more thing that's lost during processing and can lead to problems in susceptible people that eat cheese in excess.

Cheese is often from raw milk. I don't think I eat any cheese that's not from raw milk. But bacteria do break down a lot of the proteins and hormones.

 

[noordinary]

Has anyone here found any reliable brands of cheese in the USA? Meaning that don't contain enzymes, vegetable based rennet or microbial rennet? I'm assuming they're all the fancy European ones that you have to pay an arm and a leg for here.

Costco has a decent selection of european cheeses at decent prices, I just got original italian Buffalo mozzarella from Costco, delicious. Beware thats a high fat cheese.
EDIT: maybe buffalo is not the best option fat wise, i just read this:
Why Elusive Buffalo-Milk Cheeses Are Worth Hunting Down
"(his) herd's all-grass diet presented significant challenges at first, as animals raised on pasture incidentally consume more water than grain-fed animals, translating to more water in the milk. (Most Italian farmers keep their buffalo indoors and raise them on a highly efficient, nutrient-dense diet of grain, which produces a more concentrated milk.) Initially, traditional Italian mozzarella-making techniques did not work with this grass-fed milk, but Torres eventually solved the problem by pasturing his two herds on opposite sides of a mountain. By blending the herds' milk, which differed due to varying rainfall on the two pastures, he was able to create a consistent product."
Checked fat content on the label: Per serving (31g) Total Fat 7g Saturated Fat 4.5g
so the rest 2.5g of fat are mono or maybe poly - unsaturated, who knows... need to read mo on this

 

[alywest]

Costco has a decent selection of european cheeses at decent prices, I just got original italian Buffalo mozzarella from Costco, delicious. Beware thats a high fat cheese.
EDIT: maybe buffalo is not the best option fat wise, i just read this:
Why Elusive Buffalo-Milk Cheeses Are Worth Hunting Down
"(his) herd's all-grass diet presented significant challenges at first, as animals raised on pasture incidentally consume more water than grain-fed animals, translating to more water in the milk. (Most Italian farmers keep their buffalo indoors and raise them on a highly efficient, nutrient-dense diet of grain, which produces a more concentrated milk.) Initially, traditional Italian mozzarella-making techniques did not work with this grass-fed milk, but Torres eventually solved the problem by pasturing his two herds on opposite sides of a mountain. By blending the herds' milk, which differed due to varying rainfall on the two pastures, he was able to create a consistent product."
Checked fat content on the label: Per serving (31g) Total Fat 7g Saturated Fat 4.5g
so the rest 2.5g of fat are mono or maybe poly - unsaturated, who knows... need to read mo on this

Thanks for the tip, I should spend some time looking at the cheese selection at Costco, and that sounds like a good one. I would guess the remaining 2.5 g of fat are monunsaturated, at least mostly. Probably really high in protein, too.

 

[Travis]

Buffalo cheese is some rather esoteric stuff; I've had cow cheese, goat cheese, and sheep cheese but have yet to find buffalo cheese—despite living in the cheese state and totally surrounded by cheese in general. There is no limit to what types of cheese can be created; all you need is a ruminant, a bucket, and enzymes. For this reason, I am conspiring to surreptitiously raid a small farm for alpaca milk—and I hope they don't mind—so I can one‐up cheese snobs everywhere who think they've had it all.

click to embiggen: Alpaca totally nonplussed by the whole affair.​

Besides the hard‐to‐obtain alpaca cheese, camel cheese is another arcane product which can—and has—been produced. But for the opiate junkies, these cheeses may not be suitable. Camel β-casein has only two two tyrosines, giving it exactly two putative casomorphins. Of these two segments, only one is flanked by an obligatory proline:

But it's flanked twice by proline! meaning that the enzymatic hydrolysis product wouldn't be expected to include an N‐terminal tyrosine since this would require the cleavage of a proline–tyrosine bond. I think you would expect the proline–tyrosine–proline region to remain connected, resistant to digestion, and resulting in a non‐opiate fragment.

〜Q–M–V–P‧ ‧Y–P–Q–R–A〜​

(Camel β-casein must be cleaved here↗ to work, but won't for reasons outlined in the text.)​

So for a person looking for that μ‐opioid cheese effect, the easier‐to‐obtain A1 chow cheeses are more suitable. For those wanting to take this to the next level, Williams–Sonoma will tell you how to make a 'Poppy Seed–Cheddar Cheese Ball' on their website.

 

[alywest]

Buffalo cheese is some rather esoteric stuff; I've had cow cheese, goat cheese, and sheep cheese but have yet to find buffalo cheese—despite living in the cheese state and totally surrounded by cheese in general. There is no limit to what types of cheese can be created; all you need is a ruminant, a bucket, and enzymes. For this reason, I am conspiring to surreptitiously raid a small farm for alpaca milk—and I hope they don't mind—so I can one‐up cheese snobs everywhere who think they've had it all.

View attachment 8042 click to embiggen: Alpaca totally nonplussed by the whole affair.​

Besides the hard‐to‐obtain alpaca cheese, camel cheese is another arcane product which can—and has—been produced. But for the opiate junkies, these cheeses may not be suitable. Camel β-casein has only two two tyrosines, giving it exactly two putative casomorphins. Of these two segments, only one is flanked by the obligatory proline:

View attachment 8043

But it's flanked twice by proline! meaning that a enzymatic hydrolysis product wouldn't be expected to include an N‐terminal tyrosine, but an inactive proline–tyrosine–proline fragment:

〜Q–M–V–P‧ ‧Y–P–Q–R–A〜​

(Camel β-casein must be cleaved here↗ to work, but won't for reasons outlined in the text.)​

So person looking for that μ‐opioid cheese effect, the easier‐to‐obtain A1 chow cheeses are more suitable. For those wanting to take this to the next level, Williams–Sonoma will tell you how to make a 'Poppy Seed–Cheddar Cheese Ball' on their website. This is proably the best we can do until someone sets‐up a chromatraphy column suitable for separating bovine β-casein from a pepsin–tryptsin hydrolysate.

The only ruminants in my area are mule deer...the rarest cheese of all....

 

[hang loose]

@Travis

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and research on acne.
I also found those studies linking acne to an imbalance of Lipids some time ago.
Dr. Peat has said a couple of times that supplementing thyroid and vitamin A (or eating liver on a weekly basis) will (most likely) clear acne.

What are your thoughts on this?
I would be very grateful about your opinion.

 

[noordinary]

Buffalo cheese is some rather esoteric stuff; I've had cow cheese, goat cheese, and sheep cheese but have yet to find buffalo cheese—despite living in the cheese state and totally surrounded by cheese in general. There is no limit to what types of cheese can be created; all you need is a ruminant, a bucket, and enzymes. For this reason, I am conspiring to surreptitiously raid a small farm for alpaca milk—and I hope they don't mind—so I can one‐up cheese snobs everywhere who think they've had it all.

View attachment 8042 click to embiggen: Alpaca totally nonplussed by the whole affair.​

Besides the hard‐to‐obtain alpaca cheese, camel cheese is another arcane product which can—and has—been produced. But for the opiate junkies, these cheeses may not be suitable. Camel β-casein has only two two tyrosines, giving it exactly two putative casomorphins. Of these two segments, only one is flanked by an obligatory proline:

View attachment 8043

But it's flanked twice by proline! meaning that the enzymatic hydrolysis product wouldn't be expected to include an N‐terminal tyrosine since this would require the cleavage of a proline–tyrosine bond. I think you would expect the proline–tyrosine–proline region to remain connected, resistant to digestion, and resulting in a non‐opiate fragment.

〜Q–M–V–P‧ ‧Y–P–Q–R–A〜​

(Camel β-casein must be cleaved here↗ to work, but won't for reasons outlined in the text.)​

So for a person looking for that μ‐opioid cheese effect, the easier‐to‐obtain A1 chow cheeses are more suitable. For those wanting to take this to the next level, Williams–Sonoma will tell you how to make a 'Poppy Seed–Cheddar Cheese Ball' on their website.

Before you start raiding nearby alpaca farms, consider camels milk, it's delicious (pricy though) and you can buy some in US:
from here Camel Milk - Desert Farms | Camel Milk 100% Raw & Natural Milk and here thecamelmilkco (one more reason to move to CO)
I buy raw milk from Guernsey cows from local farm and it's amazing (probably also no A1 casein ), even better than Jersey cows milk.
A2 raw milk in WI (just in case) https://www.realmilk.com/real-milk-finder/wisconsin/#wi
Camel milk is not arcane (when i was in Tunisia that was the main milk they served), it's just in US anything more than ketchup is considered extra.

 

[Amazoniac]

I find it unlikely that vegetarians could get the majority of protein from cheese or strained yogurt. You can compensate most of the nutrient losses and even surpass them with nutritious foods, but then there's B12. High methionine intake without enough B12 is a very unusual thing for the body. This can't be overlooked and it will increase homocysteine as mentioned in the original post. This might explain in part the dementing effect that Travisord attributes to an inherent property of casein to reinforce babyzord dependency. It makes sense, but the baby also needs to by very perceptive to learn things fast and figure out how stuff works. Otherwise independency wouldn't be appealing when winneI mean, weaned.

 

[Amazoniac]

Herb Doctors: Diabetes-II And How To Restore And Protect Nerves
"B12, B1 and biotin are very closely involved with the respiratory apparatus."

 

[Amazoniac]

I find it unlikely that vegetarians could get the majority of protein from cheese or strained yogurt. You can compensate most of the nutrient losses and even surpass them with nutritious foods, but then there's B12. High methionine intake without enough B12 is a very unusual thing for the body. This can't be overlooked and it will increase homocysteine as mentioned in the original post. This might explain in part the dementing effect that Travisord attributes to an inherent property of casein to reinforce babyzord dependency. It makes sense, but the baby also needs to by very perceptive to learn things fast and figure out how stuff works. Otherwise independency wouldn't be appealing when winneI mean, weaned.

I don't mean to sound racist but maybe it's possible.

You can ingest a lot of B12 but will absorb directly only up to about 1.5mcg of it.
A cup of Milch (0% fat) has 1mcg and half of that is absorbed (on average): 0.5mcg per meal.
100g of cottage cheese (1% fat) has 0.5mcg and a bit more than half is absorbed: let's say 0.3mcg.
The current RD of A is 2.4mcg.
3 meals of both a day will give the shakal that amount.

I don't know what are the consequences of such loss though:
B12(mcg):methionine(g)
Same milk - 4.3:1
Same cheese - 1.6:1

 

[Sobieski]

@Travis I used to always have a big bowl of oats and milk (around 100-150g oats and 250-400g milk) for my breakfast everyday for years because I loved the taste. However afterwards I would feel very tired, spaced out, relaxed but also irritable if something didn't go my way. My hands and feet started to itch like mad after a while. It took me a long time to even figure out it was the oats and milk causing it so I stopped eating oats altogether for the most part. Symptoms went away. Is this the effect of the opioids in both foods or something else? Thanks

 

[Travis]

@Travis I used to always have a big bowl of oats and milk (around 100-150g oats and 250-400g milk) for my breakfast everyday for years because I loved the taste. However afterwards I would feel very tired, spaced out, relaxed but also irritable if something didn't go my way. My hands and feet started to itch like mad after a while. It took me a long time to even figure out it was the oats and milk causing it so I stopped eating oats altogether for the most part. Symptoms went away. Is this the effect of the opioids in both foods or something else? Thanks

Oats don't appear to have opiates. I have experience with oats so I had checked for this and besides not being commonly listed as a food which has them, I had found a study that had tested an oat hydrolysate directly for opiate activity will null results. However: oats do have seed storage proteins characteristic of wheat and rye albeit at reduced concentrations, roughly ¹⁄₅ the amount by mass; these are physically characterized by protein regions rich in proline–glutamine repeats, the glutamine is there to release ammonia during germination (glutamine ⟶ NH₃ + glutamate) and the proline exists in the protein either to make it more compact or to poison predators (or perhaps both). So I see oats as gluten lite™ for this reason, but the lower amount could perhaps allow a person to completely digest them before they reach the duodenum as they wouldn't burden the enzymes to the same extent as wheat. When cookied long with water, I think the proteins can become so well‐diffused that they can be digested fully—eliminating any chance of immunogenic reactivity. Both free amino acids and very small peptides are never immunogenic, and if they are reduced in length to this extent they are totally safe. Milk has very little proline‐rich regions yet is a major food allergen, an observation that can probably best be explained by its ability to form a 'curd' in the stomach and also to raise its pH (through Ca²⁺). Through these mechanisms, dairy can perhaps not only inhibit its own digestion but also that of certain proteins within proximity.

Once a seed storage peptide is absorbed in long‐form, an immune reaction sets in. The ingestion of gluten has been consistently shown to raise interferon-γ in many people, an observation so consistent that interferon-γ release of a patients T-cells are used to define 'wheat allergy' or 'celaics disease.' However, this often goes undiagnosed; and many people are reacting immunogenically to peptides produced from ingested seed storage proteins. Interferon-γ increases prostaglandin formation indiscriminately everywhere by upregualting phospholipase A₂; it also wastes tryptophan by inducing the enzymes tryptophan dioxygenase and indolamine dioxygenase, both of which can split‐open tryptophan's fluorescent ring ⟶ sending it down the kynurenine pathway. The reason it does this is because the body cannot discriminate even the general provinance of foreign proteins; it reacts to those from parasites, bacteria, fungi, and food just the same. The body is attempting to limit tryptophan from the assumed 'invading pathogen'—actually being the seed storage peptide—to starve that pathogen; this lowers brain serotonin synthesis and new muscle synthesis. Many people who ingest wheat—and immunogenically react to it—eat enough tryptophan to overcome this, but the induction of indolamine dioxygenase offsets the proper amino acid ratios regardless.

Mast cells can also be induced, and they can migrate. Mast cells are little cells filled with serotonin, prostaglandin D, and lots of histamine. These are so involved the classical 'allergic response' that mast cell stabilizing drugs are considered 'antihistamines,' and drugs which inhibits histidine decarboxylase are considered the same. Histamine is actually slightly stimulatory yet always reduces 'learning' in rat models. Despite the fact that rat 'learning' tests are dubious, not adequetaly representative of the phenomenon they purport to measure, the trend is so strong that I feel it deserves mention. Histamine is also produced noninnmunogenically—mast cell independent—in the brain's tubermammillary nucleus, a structure which sends‐out histaminergic projections to other brain regions similar to how the raphe nucleus distributes serotonin throughout the brain. Mast cells have been found in the brain, and they have been found ranging from zero to thousands; there is great interpersonal variation in brain mast cells, most likely representing differences in digestion and diet (but also infection). In the brain, mast cell histamine can interfere with neurotransmitter histamine and cause psychological effects. There is good reason to believe that histamine is the underlying cause of the schizophrenic phenotype.

I think a person can consume oats but they should probably consume them without milk, which could prevent adequate digestion of the seed storage proteins found therein. It's unfortunate that enjoyable food combinations aren't necessarily the healthiest, but this appears to be the case; we cannot 'have our cake and eat it too,' as they say. I really enjoyed eating things I no longer eat because I'd decided other things were more important . . . and better foods are often just as good. As a smoker, I think dietary change is easier for me than for most people—those who are looking either for stimulation or for anesthetization through food.

 

[Sobieski]

Oats don't appear to have opiates. I have experience with oats so I had checked for this and besides not being commonly listed as a food which has them, I had found a study that had tested an oat hydrolysate directly for opiate activity will null results. However: oats do have seed storage proteins characteristic of wheat and rye albeit at reduced concentrations, roughly ¹⁄₅ the amount by mass; these are physically characterized by protein regions rich in proline–glutamine repeats, the glutamine is there to release ammonia during germination (glutamine ⟶ NH₃ + glutamate) and the proline exists in the protein either to make it more compact or to poison predators (or perhaps both). So I see oats as gluten lite™ for this reason, but the lower amount could perhaps allow a person to completely digest them before they reach the duodenum as they wouldn't burden the enzymes to the same extent as wheat. When cookied long with water, I think the proteins can become so well‐diffused that they can be digested fully—eliminating any chance of immunogenic reactivity. Both free amino acids and very small peptides are never immunogenic, and if they are reduced in length to this extent they are totally safe. Milk has very little proline‐rich regions yet is a major food allergen, an observation that can probably best be explained by its ability to form a 'curd' in the stomach and also to raise its pH (through Ca²⁺). Through these mechanisms, dairy can perhaps not only inhibit its own digestion but also that of certain proteins within proximity.

Once a seed storage peptide is absorbed in long‐form, an immune reaction sets in. The ingestion of gluten has been consistently shown to raise interferon-γ in many people, an observation so consistent that interferon-γ release of a patients T-cells are used to define 'wheat allergy' or 'celaics disease.' However, this often goes undiagnosed; and many people are reacting immunogenically to peptides produced from ingested seed storage proteins. Interferon-γ increases prostaglandin formation indiscriminately everywhere by upregualting phospholipase A₂; it also wastes tryptophan by inducing the enzymes tryptophan dioxygenase and indolamine dioxygenase, both of which can split‐open tryptophan's fluorescent ring ⟶ sending it down the kynurenine pathway. The reason it does this is because the body cannot discriminate even the general provinance of foreign proteins; it reacts to those from parasites, bacteria, fungi, and food just the same. The body is attempting to limit tryptophan from the assumed 'invading pathogen'—actually being the seed storage peptide—to starve that pathogen; this lowers brain serotonin synthesis and new muscle synthesis. Many people who ingest wheat—and immunogenically react to it—eat enough tryptophan to overcome this, but the induction of indolamine dioxygenase offsets the proper amino acid ratios regardless.

Mast cells can also be induced, and they can migrate. Mast cells are little cells filled with serotonin, prostaglandin D, and lots of histamine. These are so involved the classical 'allergic response' that mast cell stabilizing drugs are considered 'antihistamines,' and drugs which inhibits histidine decarboxylase are considered the same. Histamine is actually slightly stimulatory yet always reduces 'learning' in rat models. Despite the fact that rat 'learning' tests are dubious, not adequetaly representative of the phenomenon they purport to measure, the trend is so strong that I feel it deserves mention. Histamine is also produced noninnmunogenically—mast cell independent—in the brain's tubermammillary nucleus, a structure which sends‐out histaminergic projections to other brain regions similar to how the raphe nucleus distributes serotonin throughout the brain. Mast cells have been found in the brain, and they have been found ranging from zero to thousands; there is great interpersonal variation in brain mast cells, most likely representing differences in digestion and diet (but also infection). In the brain, mast cell histamine can interfere with neurotransmitter histamine and cause psychological effects. There is good reason to believe that histamine is the underlying cause of the schizophrenic phenotype.

I think a person can consume oats but they should probably consume them without milk, which could prevent adequate digestion of the seed storage proteins found therein. It's unfortunate that enjoyable food combinations aren't necessarily the healthiest, but this appears to be the case; we cannot 'have our cake and eat it too,' as they say. I really enjoyed eating things I no longer eat because I'd decided other things were more important . . . and better foods are often just as good. As a smoker, I think dietary change is easier for me than for most people—those who are looking either for stimulation or for anesthetization through food.

Thank you very much for that comprehensive reply.

 

[Amazoniac]

I don't mean to sound racist but maybe it's possible.

You can ingest a lot of B12 but will absorb directly only up to about 1.5mcg of it.
A cup of Milch (0% fat) has 1mcg and half of that is absorbed (on average): 0.5mcg per meal.
100g of cottage cheese (1% fat) has 0.5mcg and a bit more than half is absorbed: let's say 0.3mcg.
The current RD of A is 2.4mcg.
3 meals of both a day will give the shakal that amount.

I don't know what are the consequences of such loss though:
B12(mcg):methionine(g)
Same milk - 4.3:1
Same cheese - 1.6:1

Milk probably has B12 in sufficient quantities to support an ordered growth by methionine, but I wonder if more has positives effects. I just checked and steak has a ratio of about 5:1. And a second thought: does it make a difference if it's coming from diet (and consumed along with the methionine meal) or if it's being drawn from the reserves (and later replenished)?