The Consequences Of Cheese As A Main Source Of Protein

[kyle]

Why would you ever eat cheese by itself. Dumb tbh

 

[johnwester130]

I'm not confident that they are enough to compensate for the loss unless you include more foods with high concentration of nutrients in your diet, such as organ meats, leafy greens; those can make up for it. But then comes the problem that mayweather talked about: under stress nutrients are depleted very fast, so it's more supportive and better if you can have more balanced meals.

And possibly related to the infamous serotonin, right? I've been suggesting Zeus to include a B-vitamin complex extract from natural sources in his store, I suspect many people could benefit from it. But regardless of that, no one eats cheese in massive amounts, so there has to be a reason for it, and this should explain it. Problems always appear when you have excess amino acids coming in but can't metabolize them.
Calcium-Phosphorous Ratio Of Cheeses

so cheese, liver and fruit would be ideal ?

 

[Amazoniac]

so cheese, liver and fruit would be ideal ?

Fruits don't go well with liver..

 

[Travis]

Interesting. When I was eating cheese, everything else I had been eating were raw fruits and leaves. So although homocysteine could have been a slight issue, I don't think it could have been too bad in my case.

I think the most perceivable effects had come from the opiate peptides. I could notice a change in headspace between my usual raw goat cheddar and any forays I'd make towards the American cow cheeses. I think many European cows do have the A2 casein isoform, making cheese from them—and goats—having some . . . ~90% opiate potential as compared to A1 cows.

I also found that grated cheese goes well with both raw spinach and steamed spinach. Cheese mixes with many things, and some of these things have quite a few B vitamins.

 

[Amazoniac]

Food-derived opioid peptides inhibit cysteine uptake with redox and epigenetic consequences

NAC (cysteine) Increases Melanoma Spread
So perhaps glycine and taurine can ameliorate the consequences as well.

 

[loess]

Fruits don't go well with liver..

What exactly do you mean by this? With regard to palatability? Enhanced absorption of iron from vitamin C? Cooked apples go quite well with liver IMO, along with coffee to inhibit iron absorption, gelatin to balance out the unfavorable amino acid profile, and milk (calcium) to balance the phosphate in liver.

 

[Amazoniac]

What exactly do you mean by this? With regard to palatability? Enhanced absorption of iron from vitamin C? Cooked apples go quite well with liver IMO, along with coffee to inhibit iron absorption and with gelatin to balance out the unfavorable amino acid profile of liver.

I had raw fruits in mind. But your taste makes sense since caramelized onions can resemble cooked fruit and people adore the combination.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

I think the most perceivable effects had come from the opiate peptides. I could notice a change in headspace between my usual raw goat cheddar and any forays I'd make towards the American cow cheeses. I think many European cows do have the A2 casein isoform, making cheese from them—and goats—having some . . . ~90% opiate potential as compared to A1 cows.

Started eating goat cheese after reading post of yours. Feel better in head.

 

[Travis]

Started eating goat cheese after reading post of yours. Feel better in head.

A few years ago, I was eating ~¹⁄₂ pound of raw goat cheese per day. And sometimes, after running out, I'd eat my roommates cheese ⟶ then quickly go shopping to replace that. The change was so noticeable that I started looking into natamycin, the preservative particular to that cheese and not mine. After convincing myself that natamycin was barely absorbed, I had started imagining that it was influencing the bacteria in my digestive tract.. .

I even entertained the vague raw/cooked explanation for this effect.

But it must be the opiates; but I do suppose there could be a few other amino acid substitutions which make cow casein more immunogenic—perhaps increasing neurotransmitter histamine as well.. .

After reading many studies on this I am convinced. These resistant cheese peptides can be found in the CNS and are very similar to our endogenous morphine‐like peptides: the enkephalins. During the Opium Wars, I don't think anyone had given thought to the idea that morphine was interfering with a system already in place, a natural one—and a system which is activated after eating, [sensored], or doing both simultaneously (see Seinfeld episode № 160).

Opiates—like histamine—decrease learning in rats. My motivation and drive tanked after eating that cheese and my mind turned to fluff. My chess rating dropped below 1600 and all I could think about were kittens. I don't like the cheese psychology, but its probably better than the punishing schizophrenic histamine feel I get from eating lots of oats (like ~¹⁄₂ container per day).

 

[alywest]

Has anyone here found any reliable brands of cheese in the USA? Meaning that don't contain enzymes, vegetable based rennet or microbial rennet? I'm assuming they're all the fancy European ones that you have to pay an arm and a leg for here.

 

[noordinary]

I think many European cows do have the A2 casein isoform, making cheese from them—and goats—having some . . . ~90% opiate potential as compared to A1 cows.

Am i reading that right: A2 casein has only 10% less opiate potential as compared to A1?

 

[Travis]

Am i reading that right: A2 casein has only 10% less opiate potential as compared to A1?

No! It's roughly ninety percent less (−90%). The minus sign somehow got warped into a squiggle (~), perhaps by a cosmic ray.

(Such things happen when talking about cheese.)

 

[raypeatclips]

Not meaning to derail the thread but the talk of histamine and the new year gone has got me thinking about my spring and summer curse, hayfever. Do any gurus on here @Amazoniac @Travis have any opinion on how to resolve this conundrum? Thank you

 

[d1d2]

I could notice a change in headspace between my usual raw goat cheddar and any forays I'd make towards the American cow cheeses. I think many European cows do have the A2 casein isoform, making cheese from them—and goats—having some . . . ~90% opiate potential as compared to A1 cows.

This article describes how a population of cows typically produce both a1 and a2 casein, based on individual cow’s genetics. It sounds like a herd could be bred to be a2 only if someone were determined.

Canadian Dairy Network - Beta Casein, A2 Milk and Genetics

 

[Travis]

Not meaning to derail the thread but the talk of histamine and the new year gone has got me thinking about my spring and summer curse, hayfever. Do any gurus on here @Amazoniac @Travis have any opinion on how to resolve this conundrum? Thank you

Some immunologists will categorize non‐protein molecules as 'allergens,' yet some will fiercely claim that 'all allergens are proteins.' I tend to agree with the latter camp, and think that any reaction to a non‐protein molecules should be called a 'chemical reaction' of 'hypersensitivity.' The reason is simple: the body can only really makes antibodies to proteins, as far as I can tell. So for an allergy to occur from an inhaled particle, there must be a protein involved.

But there has to be some way to circumvent this; you hear reports of hayfever reversals upon change in diet, and even through the consumption of honey, of all things. So what is going on? I mean . . . WTF is going on?

It seems as though pollen has a protein which T cells react to, releasing cytokines and histamine. Dietary foods can cross‐react with inhaled proteins, as demonstrated by the somewhat comical 'bird–egg syndrome.'

Mandallaz, Michèle M. "Bird-egg syndrome." International Archives of Allergy and Immunology (1988)​

'However, only 1 patient with asthma was recently reported to have parrot-specific IgE antibodies cross-reacting with crude egg-yolk extracts [24],' ―Mandallaz

'We found that simultaneous allergy to bird antigens and egg proteins is rather common and, in 10 patients symptomatic to egg and/or bird feathers, serological investigations were performed. In all the patients with elevated specific IgE antibodies to budgerigar antigens, we could demonstrate serological cross-reactivity with egg proteins. Our results suggest that, in adult patients with a predominant sensitization to bird and egg proteins, the major cross-reacting determinants are the livetins. The route of sensitization seems to be primarily respiratory in some patients, with ensuing food allergy to egg by cross-sensitization. On the contrary in other patients, sensitization by ingestion of egg proteins might precede the respiratory allergies elicited when a bird is introduced to the home. We propose to designate this particular cross-reactivity as ‘bird-egg syndrome'.' ―Mandallaz​

Inhaling feather dust sensitized these people to egg yolk proteins—or the converse, it's impossible to tell which came first.. .

Thus, diet can sensitize for inhalants and vice‐versa. With similar enough proteins, eating a rye grass could perhaps sensitize one to its pollen; inhaling its pollen could perhaps even initiate enteropathy. This isn't just theoretical, but has actually been demonstrated:

Donovan, G. R. "Crossreactivity of IgE antibodies from sera of subjects allergic to both ryegrass pollen and wheat endosperm proteins: evidence for common allergenic determinants." Clinical & Experimental Allergy (1990)​

'In a study of 73 atopic individuals prick tested with inhalant and food allergen extracts, 43 individuals were skin-test positive to grass pollen and, of these 42 were reactive to cereal grains [1].' ―Donovan​

'This paper examines the IgE antibody crossreactivity of sera from ryegrass pollen-allergic subjects with wheat endosperm proteins using radioimmunoassay and protein blotting techniques.' ―Donovan​

'Subject I presented with perennial allergic rhinitis with a seasonal exacerbation of symptoms and gave a positive skin-prick test with both ryegrass pollen extract and with a commercial (Dome/HollisterStier, Spokane, U.S.A.) wheat endosperm skin-prick testing extract (albumins and globulins). When placed upon a wheat-free diet he experienced an improvement in his symptoms. Subjects II presented with atopic eczema and was considered ryegrass pollen and wheat endosperm protein-sensitive on the basis of RAST and immunoblotting results. Subject II, whose symptoms were perennial but more pronounced in the pollen season, was placed upon a wheat-free diet and obtained significant remission of his symptoms. Subject III, considered from her seasonal symptoms to be pollen allergic, gave a positive skin-prick test with ryegrass pollen extract and the serum gave a high RAST value with ryegrass pollen extract but reacted only weakly with wheat endosperm proteins. Subject TV presented with perennial allergic rhinitis and had experienced an anaphylactic reaction after eating cooked rolled oats.' ―Donovan​

click to embiggen: Western immunoblots with strong cross‐reactivity between pollen and wheat proteins in patients represented by lanes marked f, g, h, i.​

'The observations of crossreaction of serum IgE antibodies on blots of proteins from distantly related sources can be explained by either two populations of antibodies separately recognizing the proteins for each source, or by the two sources of proteins sharing common structural determinants to which the same IgE antibodies bind. I he results of immunoadsorption of the serum IgE molecules by a form of affinity chromatography in which the allergens were attached to nitrocellulose discs, as reported in this paper, provide strong evidence that both ryegrass pollen and wheat endosperm allergens share common structurally related determinants.' ―Donovan​

'Desensitization with one of the allergenic proteins may result in desensitization to the other. The crossreactivity studies here suggest that the seasonal pollinosis is likely to be exacerbated by a diet of wheaten products and may provide continuous sensitization during the remainder of the year.' ―Donovan​

So there can certainly be cross‐reactivity between grass pollens and grasses themselves, even of a different species. Since seed storage proteins are the major dietary allergen, and have been shown to cross‐react with certain pollens, it could help to avoid eating seed storage proteins such as those found in grains and nuts—perhaps just one type only. As shown by Donovan above, hayfever has been greatly improved upon the elimination of grains

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

A few years ago, I was eating ~¹⁄₂ pound of raw goat cheese per day. And sometimes, after running out, I'd eat my roommates cheese ⟶ then quickly go shopping to replace that. The change was so noticeable that I started looking into natamycin, the preservative particular to that cheese and not mine. After convincing myself that natamycin was barely absorbed, I had started imagining that it was influencing the bacteria in my digestive tract.. .

I even entertained the vague raw/cooked explanation for this effect.

But it must be the opiates; but I do suppose there could be a few other amino acid substitutions which make cow casein more immunogenic—perhaps increasing neurotransmitter histamine as well.. .

After reading many studies on this I am convinced. These resistant cheese peptides can be found in the CNS and are very similar to our endogenous morphine‐like peptides: the enkephalins. During the Opium Wars, I don't think anyone had given thought to the idea that morphine was interfering with a system already in place, a natural one—and a system which is activated after eating, [sensored], or doing both simultaneously (see Seinfeld episode № 160).

Opiates—like histamine—decrease learning in rats. My motivation and drive tanked after eating that cheese and my mind turned to fluff. My chess rating dropped below 1600 and all I could think about were kittens. I don't like the cheese psychology, but its probably better than the punishing schizophrenic histamine feel I get from eating lots of oats (like ~¹⁄₂ container per day).

Half a pound of cheese?? ....you must either be very large or very extreme in your diet choices. Either I'd like to introduce you to a concept called balance.

No! It's roughly ninety percent less (−90%). The minus sign somehow got warped into a squiggle (~), perhaps by a cosmic ray.

(Such things happen when talking about cheese.)

Reduced solar activity leads to an increase in cosmic rays. Try some lead shielding.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Me right now:

It blows my mind that the government has to go overseas to get opium to make opiates with when there's literally dozens of pounds of highly domapinergic goat cheese right here in americas back yard

 

[noordinary]

No! It's roughly ninety percent less (−90%). The minus sign somehow got warped into a squiggle (~), perhaps by a cosmic ray.

(Such things happen when talking about cheese.)

At least now I know how you feel, when you read my posts: sense -> no sense -> some sense again (with the exception of gramma mistakes of course, that you can not take away from me)

 

[squanch]

A few years ago, I was eating ~¹⁄₂ pound of raw goat cheese per day. And sometimes, after running out, I'd eat my roommates cheese ⟶ then quickly go shopping to replace that. The change was so noticeable that I started looking into natamycin, the preservative particular to that cheese and not mine. After convincing myself that natamycin was barely absorbed, I had started imagining that it was influencing the bacteria in my digestive tract.. .

I even entertained the vague raw/cooked explanation for this effect.

But it must be the opiates; but I do suppose there could be a few other amino acid substitutions which make cow casein more immunogenic—perhaps increasing neurotransmitter histamine as well.. .

After reading many studies on this I am convinced. These resistant cheese peptides can be found in the CNS and are very similar to our endogenous morphine‐like peptides: the enkephalins. During the Opium Wars, I don't think anyone had given thought to the idea that morphine was interfering with a system already in place, a natural one—and a system which is activated after eating, [sensored], or doing both simultaneously (see Seinfeld episode № 160).

Opiates—like histamine—decrease learning in rats. My motivation and drive tanked after eating that cheese and my mind turned to fluff. My chess rating dropped below 1600 and all I could think about were kittens. I don't like the cheese psychology, but its probably better than the punishing schizophrenic histamine feel I get from eating lots of oats (like ~¹⁄₂ container per day).

I can eat goat and sheep cheeses without any problems in very large amounts.
Any type of cow cheese or milk will cause severe cystic acne for me after a few days. Even if it's raw, only animal rennet and European cows. Butter doesn't seem to be a problem.
If you look around acne forums online, cow dairy products is probably the most common trigger food that always comes up. What do you think could be the reason for that?

 

[Wagner83]

Some immunologists will categorize non‐protein molecules as 'allergens,' yet some will fiercely claim that 'all allergens are proteins.' I tend to agree with the latter camp, and think that any reaction to a non‐protein molecules should be called a 'chemical reaction' of 'hypersensitivity.' The reason is simple: the body can only really makes antibodies to proteins, as far as I can tell. So for an allergy to occur from an inhaled particle, there must be a protein involved.

[....]
Thus, diet can sensitize for inhalants and vice‐versa. With similar enough proteins, eating a rye grass could perhaps sensitize one to its pollen; inhaling its pollen could perhaps even initiate enteropathy. This isn't just theoretical, but has actually been demonstrated:

Donovan, G. R. "Crossreactivity of IgE antibodies from sera of subjects allergic to both ryegrass pollen and wheat endosperm proteins: evidence for common allergenic determinants." Clinical & Experimental Allergy (1990)​

[..]
As shown by Donovan above, hayfever has been greatly improved upon the elimination of grains

As shown by me elimination of dairy also helped a lot
What about those who are extremely allergic to goat and sheep dairy products (think anaphylaxis) but tolerate cheese well? The guy has nothing particular about his diet but grew up in the country side.