The Circadian T3 Method With Tyromax And T3

Discussion in 'Ask For Help or Advice' started by Fexxx, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Fexxx

    Fexxx Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    I now have Tyromax and T3 from Ideallabs at Home. My main Issue is Waking up with a stressresponse at 2-3am every Night. Falling asleep and the First Hours of sleep are Fine. Cortisol is low in the Morning. My Thyroid is ok but t3/t4 is a Little bit below the Lab-Range.

    How would you use/combine this Medication?

    This Approach catched my Interest: Circadian T3 Method (CT3M or T3CM) for Adrenals-a great way to treat your low cortisol! - Stop The Thyroid Madness

    Of course I tried other approaches without HRT before with Limited success.

    Thanks a lot!
     
  2. OP
    Fexxx

    Fexxx Member

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    Ok, Took 1drop T3 before bed and had the worst Night ever. Pounding Heart, Heat and Racing minds, no sleep. Also 1,2g Magnesium did not help. But: My Temperature was at 37C+ the First Time in my Live. Normally it‘s around low 36C in the Morning.

    I Tested Tyromax some days before (1grain distributed through the Day) and had not such a reaction?
     
  3. Goat-e

    Goat-e Member

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    I find that taking NDT at night (Tyromax) is the best way to sleep through. If you're going to try Tyromax give it a week or two on a consistent dose before making changes, your body needs to find a new equilibrium and changing the dosing up and down quickly as many seem tempted to do makes things much harder. If it were me I'd start with half a grain before bed, hold for two weeks then reassess.
     
  4. OP
    Fexxx

    Fexxx Member

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    @Goat-e

    many thanks for your insights!
     
  5. OP
    Fexxx

    Fexxx Member

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    Yesterday I took 1 drop T3 in the morning after breakfast and 2 drops Tyromax before bed and another 2 drops Tyomax in the middle of the night (when I woke up for peeing).

    Surprisingly enough I had a very good night sleep and woke up full of energy!
    Temperature is also solid at round about 36,5C and no to strong heart pounding.

    So far so good, my hope is to use this low dose continuously without the need to increase.
     
  6. tara

    tara Member

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    T4 has long half life. AIUI, it generally takes at least 2 weeks to reach stable blood levels on a steady dose. Consider starting small, keeping dose steady for 3-4 weeks before assessing whether to change it.
    T3 has short half life, not likely to last through the night.
    That's a lot of Mg if you took it all in one go. I hope you were well hydrated before you took it - maybe depending on form. I wonder if that could have contributed to symptoms?
     
  7. OP
    Fexxx

    Fexxx Member

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    Hi Tara, thanks for your thoughts!
    I only took that much magesium - seperated in 3 doses through the night - because of the extreme heart palps i got from my t3 night dose experiment ;-)

    Do you think it´s a good idea to combine T3 and NDT the way I did it yesterday - so far with good results?
    I just want to know if I have to prepare myself for an upcoming suppression of hormoneproduction and thus for an increase in dosage will be needed or if low doses can work "forvever"??? In the most articles I have read, they mention there is a need to increase the dose after 2-4 weeks.
     
  8. tara

    tara Member

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    Please remember I'm no expert.
    I don't know about what exactly will happen/work for you. Did you mention whether you've been monitoring waking (or any other time) body temps before you started the thyroid supps? I've seen Peat recommend using body temps as a guide.
    Ideally, I'd have thought it would make sense to not supplement d=so much that you suppress uour own production. If you do, I thonk it could get confusing to figure out dosing - working against yourself.
    IIRC, Broda Barnes said that if you supplement enough to push waking body temps above the 97.8-98.2 range that he targetted, it's likely to suppress endogenous production of thyroid hormones, so it's best not to do that.
    By starting with small doses and incrementing slowly, you reduce the risk, magnitude and likely negative consequence of any overshoot.
    I tend to favour caution. Unless you know you are starting from a particularly low base, I wouldn't necessarily count 4 drops as a low starting dose of tyromax.

    I'm aware that I've occasionally had a pounding heart at night when I've not drunk enough water - I'm guessing mildly dehydrated. I think some magnesium supps can have the effect of drawing water from the system into the bowel - so that's what I was thinking about. But might have been a complete red herring.
    Also aware that excessive T3 can cause heart palpitations, so that could have been the thing.
     
  9. Antonello

    Antonello Member

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    @Fexxx the thread is about cyrcadian T3 method. Have you tried the 4am dose and go back to sleep?
     
  10. James b

    James b Member

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    Have you tried this method Antonella? I’m extremely tempted but curious to hear from those who have tried it! Thanks :)
     
  11. Antonello

    Antonello Member

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    Antonello! sorry for late response bro, Yess I've tried the CT3M and it didn't work for me. I don't think the method is wrong but I'm the kind of guy who respond better with a very small dose of T4/T3 before bed.
     
  12. OP
    Fexxx

    Fexxx Member

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    Hello, once again an update and a question to the community.
    I'm still experimenting with T3 - mainly because of sleep disorders and low cortisol.
    At the moment I am about 30mcg spread over the day.

    The good thing:
    -temperature is slightly higher
    -My heart beats more gently (only with dose increase partly palpations for a short time)
    - I am super (too) relaxed
    - Sleep well with a night dose

    The bad:
    - During the day I'm totally tired in the head - like with a sleeping pill
    - Coffee has no effect whatsoever

    Ray once mentioned that T3 can act like a sleeping pill.
    One reason is probably the lowering of the "stress hormones".
    The reason why I chose the C-T3 method is to bring cortisol to a healthy level!

    So what's right now, does T3 increase or decrease cortisol and how should I continue to benefit from all the advantages?

    @ecstatichamster I like your posts and follow your threads very interested. Maybe, do you have another tip?
     
  13. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    @Fexxx I had this too, but it passed. It’s caused by lower stress hormones indeed. Upping the T3 and maintaining temperatures, with plenty of sugar and salt, helps to resolve it quickly. It’s a good thing, as the thyroid will replace the job stress hormones were doing (poorly).
     
  14. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    Hi @Fexxx i know the situation you're in. I started my journey with t3 a few years ago and its taken me so long to get my head around it. Your symptoms sound very similar to my own.

    Basically the thumping heart palpitations from T3 are caused, as you suspected, due to your low 'free' cortisol leading to high adrenaline. You would need to get a saliva test to confirm your 'free' cortisol level, blood only measures total cortisol.

    You need a certain amount of free cortisol for t3 supplementation to work properly ( a lot of people will disagree with this ). The cortisol enables sufficient intracellular glucose levels, without which, taking t3 would cause a stress response because there isn't enough energy in the cell to respond to the increased metabolism. So your body has to compensate by increasing adrenaline, which brings with it the insomnia, palpitations .

    What always works is T4. T4 actually increases free cortisol because it agonises the 11b-hsd1 enzyme which is responsible for converting inactive cortisone into cortisol. In peatland, high cortisol is not regarded as a good thing. But for people like ourselves predisposed to low cortisol levels, a mix of T4 and T3 is absolutely essential. This is exactly why you said in an earlier post that you responded fine to Tyromax, but not Tyronene (t3 only).

    Paul Robinson, the author of CT3M, believes that T3 will increase overall cortisol levels, but in my experience its just not the case, and there seems to be a large number of people for whom his CT3M protocol doesnt work. T3 actually has a strong anti cortisol effect, it also inhibits the enzyme that makes cortisol from cortisone which i spoke about above. So for people like us, with very little bioavailable cortisol as it is, T3 only, is not the best approach.

    The best thing is either Tyromax or Tyromix, which both have varying ratios of T4 to T3. Or, you could go for the T4 from Blue Sky Peptides, and then find the ratio that works best for you.

    Do keep us updated with your progress
     
  15. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    T4 does not always work because it creates rT3 and that can stop the whole thing from working. I was taking massive amounts of T4 and it wasn’t helping me. When I switched to T3 everything started to click. Dr. Peat has said that some people need to take massive amounts of T4 to get an effect, but this becomes absurd.

    So I have to disagree here with @ddjd

    Dr. Wilson found the same thing and that is the reason he developed this T3 protocol.
     
  16. ddjd

    ddjd Member

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    @ecstatichamster you're getting muddled up on multiple points. First off, i would never recommend just t4 alone, i have suggested always use both t3 and t4, and find a ratio that works well for you. Its very important not to let RT3 increase, so T3 is always advised alongside t4.

    Secondly, the circadian method, as outlined by the OP was created by Paul Robinson.
     
  17. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I’ve read and tried the Circadian method. I didn’t like waking up early and trying to go back to sleep and it wasn’t successful for me. I think he’s inaccurate on many other points.

    I have found Dr. Wilson’s work very persuasive and it has let me reset my metabolism and I am in the midst of completing another cycle. The advantage is no use of T4, and T3 is very effective. I wouldn’t say I’m muddled at all. T3 can be turned into other metabolites but only T4 can be turned into rT3 and this is the problem with protocols that use T4 and why most people end up on thyroid for life.

    My following Dr. Wilson’s protocol is to only need thyroid supplementation for a short time, then never need it again.
     
  18. sweetpeat

    sweetpeat Member

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    I've never seen it laid out like this before, but it explains why I seem to do better with mostly t4 and a bit of t3. When I try to lower the t4 and raise t3 I get the sedative effect as mentioned above. And I do have low morning/afternoon cortisol, confirmed by blood and saliva labs.

    @ecstatichamster maybe t3 only works for you because you have normal cortisol levels?
     
  19. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I don't believe this explanation but I could be wrong. I think that T3 down regulates cortisol and adrenaline and that is why it seems sedating. This passes as you reach your "correct" metabolic temperatures. There is an adjustment period and it can last for several months.

    But I have not tested anything. But I'm sure I do not have low cortisol. I'm not sure that many people do. It may look that way on a test, but I question it anyway. Estradiol blood tests are a perfect example of something that doesn't test well. Maybe cortisol is like that too in some way.
     
  20. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    The sedative effect with T3 sometimes happens to me too. I think it's similar to how coffee can paradoxically cause sleepiness, it means you were operating in a depleted, semi-contracted, excited state, and the thyroid is giving you enough energy to finally get out of that state and to relax.
     
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