The Cause Of Baldness

[johnwester130]

The answer is no. The 5α-reductase product 5α-dihydrocortisol is less of a mineralcorticoid than cortisol. Here are some binding affinities and assays which show both this and the relative strength of cortisol:aldosterone on the mineralcorticoid receptor. From the article:

okay, thanks for the responses.

How would you explain this, a 50 year old bald man/woman reverses baldness with spiro and estrogen ?

Maybe sebum does cause the baldness ?

Head hair regrowth from estrogen and spiro alone?

 

[Travis]

Well spironolactone is a powerful agonist of the mineralcorticoid receptor; it was designed to do this.

 

[ddjd]

has anyone found idealabs Gonadin to be good for hair loss?

 

[EIRE24]

okay, thanks for the responses.

How would you explain this, a 50 year old bald man/woman reverses baldness with spiro and estrogen ?

Maybe sebum does cause the baldness ?

Head hair regrowth from estrogen and spiro alone?

I'm not sure how is the best way to stop sebum? Most if not all people on here say vitamin A but that never worked for me

 

[johnwester130]

I'm not sure how is the best way to stop sebum? Most if not all people on here say vitamin A but that never worked for me

do you also take vitamin d and k2 ? what type of vitamin a did you use ?

 

[EIRE24]

No I dont. I dont like to supplement that much to be honest. If I was taking vitamin A supplement, how much D and K would you need? Id prefer to eat Liver and get vitamin D from sun ideally

 

[Mossy]

I am going to go through another stool test and see the difference between my pre-kefir/ raw milk stool and my current (2 month time period).

@CLASH

Hey Clash, did you happen to get a stool test to compare pre-kefir/raw milk? Just curious if there were any obvious and good results.

I have a question with regard to your theory as well. Do you see value in having my milk whole organic raw grass-fed, even if some of my other milk products (ice cream and cheese) can't be at this high level? Will the poorer quality dairy mingle and effect the raw, in your opinion/theory? My thought is that the major source of my milk intake will be the raw milk, which I know is a big part of your theory.

 

[Luckytype]

okay, thanks for the responses.

How would you explain this, a 50 year old bald man/woman reverses baldness with spiro and estrogen ?

Maybe sebum does cause the baldness ?

Head hair regrowth from estrogen and spiro alone?

I think sebum just happens to be there as well, perhaps as another(likely benign) product of whatever is causing it.


What about the large amount of asian women at my gym who noticably thinning on the top and along the forward hairlines. I dont mean to be rude but they are not the skinny type either. They have fantastic figures and are probably 20ish give or take a couple years. Many have thinned on top(but i would only notice because of my own awareness)

It seems this goes against what we think of for traditional balding. Asian(mostly chinese, born in the US) AND female

 

[CLASH]

@Mossy
I got the stool test results. I eliminated the pathogens from my stool with raw kefir and raw milk (both from goats as you know). Klebsiella which was initially +4 is now NG (no growth). No h.pylori, no parasites. The only gram neg bacteria present is e.coli and my lacto and bifido increased. The only symptom I get now is gas from carrots but its extremely minimal. Also my cholesterol went from 150 to 192 in my labs, which I view as a really great sign. My cbc immune cells also normalized, my lymphocyte percentage was elevated. My hair stopped shedding and i dont get any itch anymore. No depression, no anxiety, i am relaxed most of the time. I also have gone up to 205lbs, but i have been lifting 3x per week where I have gotten much stronger almost overnight. For reference my stiff leg deadlift is at 275 for 6, and my decline bench on the hammer strength machine is at 4 plates per side. I started at 185 for 6 stiff legged deadlift and 2 plates and a 25 for the decline hammer strength press so my strength has also significantly increased and my workouts are less stressful. I have stopped posting as much recently to focus on relaxing myself and reading more in depth as spurned by my conversations with @Travis (thanks for your most recent posts, ive been reading just not participating currently, the info is great).

As far as sebum production goes on the scalp i think its related to adrenal androgens from adrenal upregulation. I currently strongly believe that adrenal upregulation is a significant part of hairloss in conjunction with fibrosis. I have seen ur shampoo post @Luckytype. For reference i havent used shampoo, soap, deodorant or toothpaste for more than 4-5 years. My hair isnt greesy, i havent lost any teeth or had a cavity (never had one in my life actually), i do sometimes get BO (depends on stress levels and what i eat) but its only noticeable if you where to put your face directly in my armpit.

Also I would like to say that i advise against vit c supplementation, which I previously recommended. I recently reacted very poorly to nutrabio vitamin c out of the blue and have been consistently. I am leaning towards agreeing with peat on the contamination/alllergenicity. Thus all i use currently for anyone interested is topical vit d, vit k2-mk4, topical tocovit, topical energin, topical mag chloride (ancient minerals) and aspirin sporadically. Vit d3 is 2000iu, vit k2 is 1mg, mag is 300mg at most usually. I take 1/4 the dose of energin and tocovit. Diet is the same as previously mentioned. Im getting bloodwork soon in relation to prolactin and some better thyroid labs than came with this past panel i did so i can see the change from my baseline. Ill keep u guys posted. Ive also been massaging 2x daily for 20 minutes. At the 6 month mark which is this april I should have after pictures of my hairline (i took before pictures) if i keep up with the massage to have proof of the entire protocol so others can replicate it (hopefully life doesnt get in the way and i stop... haha).

 

[inmyhead]

@Mossy
I got the stool test results. I eliminated the pathogens from my stool with raw kefir and raw milk (both from goats as you know). Klebsiella which was initially +4 is now NG (no growth). No h.pylori, no parasites. The only gram neg bacteria present is e.coli and my lacto and bifido increased. The only symptom I get now is gas from carrots but its extremely minimal. Also my cholesterol went from 150 to 192 in my labs, which I view as a really great sign. My cbc immune cells also normalized, my lymphocyte percentage was elevated. My hair stopped shedding and i dont get any itch anymore. No depression, no anxiety, i am relaxed most of the time. I also have gone up to 205lbs, but i have been lifting 3x per week where I have gotten much stronger almost overnight. For reference my stiff leg deadlift is at 275 for 6, and my decline bench on the hammer strength machine is at 4 plates per side. I started at 185 for 6 stiff legged deadlift and 2 plates and a 25 for the decline hammer strength press so my strength has also significantly increased and my workouts are less stressful. I have stopped posting as much recently to focus on relaxing myself and reading more in depth as spurned by my conversations with @Travis (thanks for your most recent posts, ive been reading just not participating currently, the info is great).

As far as sebum production goes on the scalp i think its related to adrenal androgens from adrenal upregulation. I currently strongly believe that adrenal upregulation is a significant part of hairloss in conjunction with fibrosis. I have seen ur shampoo post @Luckytype. For reference i havent used shampoo, soap, deodorant or toothpaste for more than 4-5 years. My hair isnt greesy, i havent lost any teeth or had a cavity (never had one in my life actually), i do sometimes get BO (depends on stress levels and what i eat) but its only noticeable if you where to put your face directly in my armpit.

Also I would like to say that i advise against vit c supplementation, which I previously recommended. I recently reacted very poorly to nutrabio vitamin c out of the blue and have been consistently. I am leaning towards agreeing with peat on the contamination/alllergenicity. Thus all i use currently for anyone interested is topical vit d, vit k2-mk4, topical tocovit, topical energin, topical mag chloride (ancient minerals) and aspirin sporadically. Vit d3 is 2000iu, vit k2 is 1mg, mag is 300mg at most usually. I take 1/4 the dose of energin and tocovit. Diet is the same as previously mentioned. Im getting bloodwork soon in relation to prolactin and some better thyroid labs than came with this past panel i did so i can see the change from my baseline. Ill keep u guys posted. Ive also been massaging 2x daily for 20 minutes. At the 6 month mark which is this april I should have after pictures of my hairline (i took before pictures) if i keep up with the massage to have proof of the entire protocol so others can replicate it (hopefully life doesnt get in the way and i stop... haha).

Nice to see that you found something which is working for you. Btw, are you diffuse thinner or receeding pattern? Also, is baldness running in your family?

Yes, Travis is a great guy, he has some nice ideas.

 

[CLASH]

@inmyhead
Receeding hairline at the temples, thinning on top, no loss in crown/ no bald spot. My dad has his hair at 60, he has a receeded hairline tho and is thinning on top. I changed his diet up a bit, and got him massaging and he isnt losing anymore, he actually has new hair growing in his temple area for the first time in 30 years, maybe ill post a pic if he lets me. Its pretty funny, his hair is grey but the new hair coming in is black and theyre like islands in a sea barren of scalp space. 2 of my mothers 4 brothers went bald in thier 20s. The other 2 have full hair at 60. None of my grandfathers lost thier hair.

 

[Mossy]

@Mossy
I got the stool test results. I eliminated the pathogens from my stool with raw kefir and raw milk (both from goats as you know). Klebsiella which was initially +4 is now NG (no growth). No h.pylori, no parasites. The only gram neg bacteria present is e.coli and my lacto and bifido increased. The only symptom I get now is gas from carrots but its extremely minimal. Also my cholesterol went from 150 to 192 in my labs, which I view as a really great sign. My cbc immune cells also normalized, my lymphocyte percentage was elevated. My hair stopped shedding and i dont get any itch anymore. No depression, no anxiety, i am relaxed most of the time. I also have gone up to 205lbs, but i have been lifting 3x per week where I have gotten much stronger almost overnight. For reference my stiff leg deadlift is at 275 for 6, and my decline bench on the hammer strength machine is at 4 plates per side. I started at 185 for 6 stiff legged deadlift and 2 plates and a 25 for the decline hammer strength press so my strength has also significantly increased and my workouts are less stressful. I have stopped posting as much recently to focus on relaxing myself and reading more in depth as spurned by my conversations with @Travis (thanks for your most recent posts, ive been reading just not participating currently, the info is great).

As far as sebum production goes on the scalp i think its related to adrenal androgens from adrenal upregulation. I currently strongly believe that adrenal upregulation is a significant part of hairloss in conjunction with fibrosis. I have seen ur shampoo post @Luckytype. For reference i havent used shampoo, soap, deodorant or toothpaste for more than 4-5 years. My hair isnt greesy, i havent lost any teeth or had a cavity (never had one in my life actually), i do sometimes get BO (depends on stress levels and what i eat) but its only noticeable if you where to put your face directly in my armpit.

Also I would like to say that i advise against vit c supplementation, which I previously recommended. I recently reacted very poorly to nutrabio vitamin c out of the blue and have been consistently. I am leaning towards agreeing with peat on the contamination/alllergenicity. Thus all i use currently for anyone interested is topical vit d, vit k2-mk4, topical tocovit, topical energin, topical mag chloride (ancient minerals) and aspirin sporadically. Vit d3 is 2000iu, vit k2 is 1mg, mag is 300mg at most usually. I take 1/4 the dose of energin and tocovit. Diet is the same as previously mentioned. Im getting bloodwork soon in relation to prolactin and some better thyroid labs than came with this past panel i did so i can see the change from my baseline. Ill keep u guys posted. Ive also been massaging 2x daily for 20 minutes. At the 6 month mark which is this april I should have after pictures of my hairline (i took before pictures) if i keep up with the massage to have proof of the entire protocol so others can replicate it (hopefully life doesnt get in the way and i stop... haha).

Excellent. Thanks for sharing all the detail.

No worries at all, for being on the low. I do the same myself. Glad you're reading more in-depth, to balance the staccato nature of forum interaction -- which can get your mind reeling with too many questions and in too many directions. Reading (old school literature) is one of my favorite things to do.

Glad as well, to hear you're entering Hercules mode with your body building. I just started a program prior to discovering Peating (about 6 months ago), and I've put on over 20 lbs and my strength has increased as well. I was at 160lbs -- I'm now 182lbs (6ft tall). I was in such an emaciated state, I thought I'd never be lifting what I am. But, in an effort to save my joints and ligaments long term, I've stopped going super heavy. It was fun for a while, though. Also, since my immune system is still weak, working out too heavy can give me a crash/fatigue/malaise.

I look forward to your 6 month results. But, don't stress it if life gets in the way, and there is nothing to report. For what it's worth, I've missed all of my milestones with every hair-loss program I've been on; I kept getting to the designated period for results and life had determined otherwise. I don't say this to discourage you, at all--I hope yours will be the beaming success that you're anticipating--just to prevent you from stressing the need to show results.

Lastly, I took the plunge and started on raw milk. How long this will last, due to price, I don't know. Next up will be raw kefir. I may try to make it myself, solely for cost reasons -- sounds like it will be cheaper.

Oh, I guess this is the lastly. I also have trouble supplementing C. When I have the time, I make liposomal C. There is debate as to weather it is technically true liposomal C, but, either way, it doesn't give me issues like other C. There's a ton of stuff online how to make it, or I can provide you the recipe I use. Also, it uses sunflower lecithin, which is .43 g PUFA per serving (1 gram of liposomal C solution). That may be enough to persuade you against it, but that's less PUFA than the Peat recommended 1 tsp of olive oil for the carrot salad.

 

[Luckytype]

If your shedding has stopped, your hair growth will likely show up 3ish months after your start of massaging.

I need to stop my shedding but my hairline had moved down lower than when i was a teenager from massaging. Im certain its a good thing for the tension and fibrosis related ischemic loss.

DO NOT neglect the recovery period when doing the massage.

 

[Mossy]

Ok, I think you all have convinced me to start massaging. Now it's just a matter of finding an extra 40 minutes a day.

 

[raypeatclips]

If your shedding has stopped, your hair growth will likely show up 3ish months after your start of massaging.

I need to stop my shedding but my hairline had moved down lower than when i was a teenager from massaging. Im certain its a good thing for the tension and fibrosis related ischemic loss.

DO NOT neglect the recovery period when doing the massage.

What recovery period? You just massage for 10-20 mins twice a day don't you?

 

[ExD]

What recovery period? You just massage for 10-20 mins twice a day don't you?

no, you must massage different parts of the scalp at intervals so each area is getting 20mns solid massage and then given around 24-36hrs recovery period

say you massage the front at 8am, you don't want to touch it again until around 8pm the following day. this is when healing takes place, during the downtime.

 

[raypeatclips]

no, you must massage different parts of the scalp at intervals so each area is getting 20mns solid massage and then given around 24-36hrs recovery period

say you massage the front at 8am, you don't want to touch it again until around 8pm the following day. this is when healing takes place, during the downtime.

Let me just clarify, so you would massage the front of your scalp for 20 mins, then later that day massage the back for 20 mins (but not the front) and the next day at 8am another area for 20 minutes?

 

[ExD]

Let me just clarify, so you would massage the front of your scalp for 20 mins, then later that day massage the back for 20 mins (but not the front) and the next day at 8am another area for 20 minutes?

yeah exactly

when we think of head massages we would mostly assume it involves massaging rhw balding spots as much as possible, but the whole scalp needs to be loosened up and given time to heal, so front, crown and back/sides offer the most coverage:healing ratio

even with sports massage a therapist will advise clients to rest for 24hrs so the muscles can recover from the massage itself

 

[Prosper]

What do you fear would happen with insufficient rest period? Soft tissue can withstand plenty of stress even when sore. It's not ideal, but it's hardly harmful either, especially when such relatively light forces like are involved. To me that kind of conscious scheduling seems unnecessary and borderline obsessive. They are trivial details, similar to counting calories. Why not go by feel instead? Find sore and thick regions, massage them, rest until it's bearable to massage them again. I could only massage once every two days when I started. Now I perfrom multiple short massage sessions all day long, because that suits me. Someone else may may find 2x 20 min a better fit. It doesn't matter. The important thing is that you keep doing it.

 

[ExD]

What do you fear would happen with insufficient rest period? Soft tissue can withstand plenty of stress even when sore. It's not ideal, but it's hardly harmful either, especially when such relatively light forces like are involved. To me that kind of conscious scheduling seems unnecessary and borderline obsessive. They are trivial details, similar to counting calories. Why not go by feel instead? Find sore and thick regions, massage them, rest until it's bearable to massage them again. I could only massage once every two days when I started. Now I perfrom multiple short massage sessions all day long, because that suits me. Someone else may may find 2x 20 min a better fit. It doesn't matter. The important thing is that you keep doing it.

i think the point is to induce acute inflammation rather than chronic, and resting periods seem like they would be important so the tissue isn't constantly under stress

but i don't know. it's only the advice i've heard rather than an opinion based on fact xD