The Carnivore Code

[redsun]

Don't let go matey, I told you...I'm an optimist \o/

Well you are just going to keep deflecting at this point to not like a contradicting buffoon. So that's the end of that.

 

[methylenewhite]

Don't let go matey, I told you...I'm an optimist \o/


Eat a steak and chug some milk an hr later. Let us know how it goes buddy. I hear chemistry is mostly madeup.

Do you think meat creates endotoxin?

 

[ExD]

Well you are just going to keep deflecting at this point to not like a contradicting buffoon. So that's the end of that.

 

[ExD]

Do you think meat creates endotoxin?

Sorry bud you totally ****88 up that quote and I didn't see it

But yes obviously meat can create endotoxin, what do you think happens to living things when they die...bacteria break them down into rainbows and unicorns?

Sorry lol :S the other dude has sent my sarcasm into overdrive. I'll leave it here since it's nearly 1am.

@ OP, sorry this thread degraded into total ******* nonsense

Cheers and enjoy your soup :>

 

[Amazoniac]

- Relevance of protein fermentation to gut health

"In western diets, on average 15–20% of energy intake is derived from protein intake [11]. The amount of protein entering the colon depends on the protein content of the ingested food and protein digestibility. Digestibility of proteins from animal sources (dairy and animal proteins) exceeds 90% and is generally higher than the digestibility of plant proteins (70–90%). Dairy proteins, whey and casein, appear to be slightly more digestible than meat proteins [12]. Using stable isotope techniques, Evenepoel et al. compared the digestibility of raw and cooked egg protein and showed that the amount of protein entering the colon and the amount of fermentation metabolites retrieved in urine depends on the digestibility of the proteins [13]. Similarly, thermolysation of casein (heating at 180° C for 1 h) significantly decreased the digestibility of the protein and increased the degree of protein fermentation [14]. However, in ileostomy patients, digestibility of different sources of protein (beef and cheese) was similar and ileal nitrogen output was strongly correlated to dietary nitrogen intake (p<0.0001) suggesting that, on a normal mixed diet, it is the amount of protein in the diet rather than its source that determines the amount reaching the colon [2]."​

Yet it's difficult to consume large amounts of protein without animal products. There will be protective factors associated with more protein in the diet, but the question is the metabolites being generated, and sometimes in experiments just increasing the intake of protein is enough to also increase their appearance.

Meat does not constipate you, you go less because meat does not have undigestable bulk that plants do.

No longer speeding up is equivalent to slowing down as long as it's within normal digestive periods, and it's the opposite of what should happen on a diet that's mostly meats (different from the experiments), it has to be evacuated fast, hence the adaptations to shorter guts in carnivores. Humanoids that adopt such diet intuitively include fermentable carbs at some point for good reason.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

I have been reading this forum for years but still have not found the holy grail of eating that provides me with energy, hormones and a lean, strong body. So I am always researching and experimenting on myself. I have just listened to The Carnivore Code by Paul Saladino and would love to hear your opinion if you have also read this book. Some things align with Peat, eg fibers are unnecessary/harmful, however he once again demonises carbs including all fruit and most vegetables, calling them survival foods. What about thyroid health? What happens to our hormones on an all meat diet? Would this be an experiment worth trying? For context, I am hypothyroid taking NDT, I have no progesterone production, energy deficiency, sleep problems and the list goes on

Paul Saladino was also in the movie Gamechangers : DEBUNKED,which i can recommend.Carnivore Diet is a true solid Diet,without much flaws.It resembles the Peat-Diet by high-protein,high micronutrients.Differing Energy-Sources,Sugar vs.Fat, and Foodchoices.I believe that solid Bodytissue like muscle or inner organ is way superior to Milk and OJ,but besides Fuelchoice and Foodsource,it does resemble Peat-like recommendations.Members wrote also that he talked favourably about Carnivore dieting in one of his interviews.Maybe a member here has a recollection of sorts in regard to that interview-material.
yeah,and meat is an excellent Foodchoice,the putrefaction is a silly Fairy-Tale,meat and animal products are good for us,that is precisely why it gets bad reputation from the mainstream culture,which also recommends to smoke cigars if you are lonely,and drink Ethanol if you are depressed.

 

[ExD]

Members wrote also that he talked favourably about Carnivore dieting in one of his interviews.Maybe a member here has a recollection of sorts in regard to that interview-material.

He said it was viable if one included dairy. Ray has also said veganism is viable if one approaches it intelligently, so it's not like his opinion justifies anything.

putrefaction is a silly Fairy-Tale,

Even a child knows meat rots...

Did someone just tell you meat doesn't spoil, or do you think we digest all of it, or what? Amazoniac has already provided evidence that this isn't the case...

Do you think carnivores have short gi tracts for fun or something? Their stomachs are vastly more acidic than ours and even with that, they still require a digestive system capable of expelling their waste quickly, because despite digesting it a lot better than humans, it is still decaying meat lol

meat and animal products are good for us,

That doesn't mean putrefaction is a fairy tale. Water is good for everyone. It's essential. Therefore drowning is a fairy tale? I mean wtf :P

I am actually editing this because my faith in people is so low after reading this thread that I feel it necessary to point out that I'm being sarcastic about drowning haha. Poe's Law and all that

that is precisely why it gets bad reputation from the mainstream culture,which also recommends to smoke cigars if you are lonely,and drink Ethanol if you are depressed.

Sugar, fat, dairy, smoking, drinking all get bad rep from main stream culture. Main stream culture is basically shallow thinking in whatever milieu you're currently exploring.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

He said it was viable if one included dairy. Ray has also said veganism is viable if one approaches it intelligently, so it's not like his opinion justifies anything.




Even a child knows meat rots...

Did someone just tell you meat doesn't spoil, or do you think we digest all of it, or what? Amazoniac has already provided evidence that this isn't the case...

Do you think carnivores have short gi tracts for fun or something? Their stomachs are vastly more acidic than ours and even with that, they still require a digestive system capable of expelling their waste quickly, because despite digesting it a lot better than humans, it is still decaying meat lol



That doesn't mean putrefaction is a fairy tale. Water is good for everyone. It's essential. Therefore drowning is a fairy tale? I mean wtf :P

I am actually editing this because my faith in people is so low after reading this thread that I feel it necessary to point out that I'm being sarcastic about drowning haha. Poe's Law and all that




Sugar, fat, dairy, smoking, drinking all get bad rep from main stream culture. Main stream culture is basically shallow thinking in whatever milieu you're currently exploring.

Meats are the least putrefacting Agents available,and highly digestable.It is the most antiallergenic complex Foodstuff also.
Carnivores have short GI because they can afford to have it,and enjoy the least amount of microbic interaction.Short GI is just sucking everything up convenience-style.I actually follow the idea that Humans,GI-wise are Carnivore-type,and have no caecum,were fermentation can take place.We are more like Dogs,and less like Apes.Plain Sugar,not Carbohydrate in general, without supplementation IS evil,Wernicke Korsakoff Dementia is an example.Dairy is problematic for lots of people,Peat didnt debunked that idea at all,it is a fact for lots of people,doesnt even matter if no overt symptomatology arises,the unclear Hormonal Activity is already concerning.Smoking and Drinking dont have meaningful existence,and for susceptible Individuals,destroying properties.

 

[ExD]

Meats are the least putrefacting Agents available,and highly digestable.It is the most antiallergenic complex Foodstuff also.

So it's not a fairy tale \o/

Also if what you said was true, why do people need to cure meat to keep it safe to eat? Surely we could just leave it like we do root vegetables etc? I can leave carrots in my fridge for months without them rotting, but my beef and chicken tend to expire a week after purchase, unless stored below freezing...

Carnivores have short GI because they can afford to have it,

?

and enjoy the least amount of microbic interaction.Short GI is just sucking everything up convenience-style.I actually follow the idea that Humans,GI-wise are Carnivore-type,and have no caecum,were fermentation can take place.

Carnivores have extremely acidic stomachs to break down bone and marrow and cartilage, something humans can't do, even if we cook them first...we also lack the canines of carnivores and have masticating jaws like herbivores, so I don't follow your logic. Dogs are scavengers and comparatively still have far greater digestive capabilities of human beings because they rely on being able to eat anything, even if it's road kill.

we are more like dogs and less like Apes.

What about primates ? Apes have guts that are capable of fermenting leavs into saturated fats proiding them with calories that humans simply can't get, so yes, we are not like apes...but monkeys live on fruits and bugs...

Plain Sugar,not Carbohydrate in general, without supplementation IS evil,Wernicke Korsakoff Dementia is an example.Dairy is problematic for lots of people,Peat didnt debunked that idea at all,it is a fact for lots of people,doesnt even matter if no overt symptomatology arises,the unclear Hormonal Activity is already concerning.Smoking and Drinking dont have meaningful existence,and for susceptible Individuals,destroying properties.

Fruits, roots, tubers > meat > dairy = the order our digestive system has evolved, so it's not surprising that dairy is difficult for many people, but arguing we are carnivores is ridiculous in lieu of what we know to be true.

 

[Dennis]

I have been reading this forum for years but still have not found the holy grail of eating that provides me with energy, hormones and a lean, strong body. So I am always researching and experimenting on myself. I have just listened to The Carnivore Code by Paul Saladino and would love to hear your opinion if you have also read this book. Some things align with Peat, eg fibers are unnecessary/harmful, however he once again demonises carbs including all fruit and most vegetables, calling them survival foods. What about thyroid health? What happens to our hormones on an all meat diet? Would this be an experiment worth trying? For context, I am hypothyroid taking NDT, I have no progesterone production, energy deficiency, sleep problems and the list goes on

I've been on a mostly (red, ruminant) meat for 7 years now. A tiny percentage of my diet, say 5% is stuff that is not red meat, i.e eggs and dairy. I do not eat any vegetable or fruit. AMA. Please check my other posts on the subject.

 

[ExD]

I've been on a mostly (red, ruminant) meat for 7 years now. A tiny percentage of my diet, say 5% is stuff that is not red meat, i.e eggs and dairy. I do not eat any vegetable or fruit. AMA. Please check my other posts on the subject.

Hi,

What does an average meal plan look for you each day?

Why are you on a keto/carni diet to begin with?

What problems do you get with the brands of honey you can't consume?

Oh also what's your opinion on bowel movements lol? According to this thread it's a zero waste diet which is not my experience

Also also, what are the drawbacks you've experienced, relative to the positives?

 

[Dennis]

>What does an average meal plan look for you each day?
I may eat one big meal a day or 2 smaller meals a day. These are beef steaks which I pan sear on either side for a minute ( so the middle is still warm but raw). The only condiment that I add is sea salt, ( not the free flowing salt, which has additives). I do eat eggs and some dairy ( generally butter), but it is sporadic. For example I have not eaten eggs for 2 weeks now.

>Why are you on a keto/carni diet to begin with?

I had mood, sleep and digestive disorders. Digestive - I cannot digest most foods except a select few. After I changed my diet about 80% of my problems resolved. Sleep, and mood were related issues. My sleep was very light, almost never deep. If I did not sleep well, I ended up being listless during the day. The quality of sleep had a direct correlation to my digestive issues. Digestion issues on a 'normal' diet were bloating, ill formed stools or diarrhea.

>What problems do you get with the brands of honey you can't consume?

My sleep, mood problems get worse. ( glad you ask asked about the brand, most people ignore this aspect)

>Oh also what's your opinion on bowel movements lol? According to this thread it's a zero waste diet which is not my experience

Bowel movements - went from once a day to once in 2 days. It is true it's near zero waste. Only a fraction of what I eat is pooped. Often just pellets.

>Also also, what are the drawbacks you've experienced, relative to the positives?

The biggest negative that I find is the so-called adjustment period or the keto flu . This can be pretty devastating for most people and it can permanently discourage a person from experimenting with the carnivore diet. The best antidote that I could find online is that one should consume a lot of salt to alleviate the symptoms (which I personally was not aware off at the time that I started 7 years back).

 

[ExD]

>What does an average meal plan look for you each day?
I may eat one big meal a day or 2 smaller meals a day. These are steaks which I pan sear on either side for a minute ( so the middle is still raw but raw). The only condiment that I add is sea salt, ( not the free flowing salt, which has additives). I do eat eggs and some dairy ( generally butter), but it is sporadic. For example I have not eaten eggs for 2 weeks now.

>Why are you on a keto/carni diet to begin with?

I had mood, sleep and digestive disorders. Digestive - I cannot digest most foods except a select few. After I changed my diet about 80% of my problems resolved. Sleep, and mood were related issues. My sleep was very light, almost never deep. If I did not sleep well, I ended up being listless during the day. The quality of sleep had a direct correlation to my digestive issues. Digestion issues on a 'normal' diet were bloating, ill formed stools or diarrhea.

>What problems do you get with the brands of honey you can't consume?

My sleep, mood problems get worse. ( glad you ask asked about the brand, most people ignore this aspect)

>Oh also what's your opinion on bowel movements lol? According to this thread it's a zero waste diet which is not my experience

Bowel movements - went from once a day to once in 2 days. It is true it's near zero waste. Only a fraction of what I eat is pooped. Often just pellets.

>Also also, what are the drawbacks you've experienced, relative to the positives?

The biggest negative that I find is the so-called adjustment period or the keto flu . This can be pretty devastating for most people and it can permanently discourage a person from experimenting with the carnivore diet. The best antidote that I could find online is that one should consume a lot of salt to alleviate the symptoms (which I personally was not aware off at the time that I started 7 years back).

Cheers.

My biggest eye opener on the diet was how stable my moods were without sugar. I had to motivate myself to do things, but I could do them...when I reintroduced sugar, it was like I "had" to do something lol.

It was also the first diet to clear up my gunky white tongue and teach me the value of not over eating; something naturally skinny people don't think about enough imo. I've since learnt to manage digestion above all else but I'm still convinced carni is the "cleanest" diet out there, I just haven't heard about long term effects (generational anecdotes, I mean) - I know of two youtube docs that are on it and one of them does not look healthy, the other really does but again there is huge differences in how people approach it

I eat my steaks the same way and sleep like a baby when I'm on the diet, but I have bacon and eggs in the morning and steak at night - but I actually got the feeling I was consuming too much protein as a result - Has this ever been an issue for you?

Can I ask your age / location / build / how active your lifestyle is? I'm curious if eating once a day on carni works for full time employment in a very cold and cloudy climate :P

Also what were your symptoms of keto flu? Iirc I had leg cramps when I tried this a few years back and was very strict with it but besides that I don't remember any serious ill effects

 

[Dennis]

I eat my steaks the same way and sleep like a baby when I'm on the diet, but I have bacon and eggs in the morning and steak at night - but I actually got the feeling I was consuming too much protein as a result - Has this ever been an issue for you?

No. Do not over think this. Use taste as a guide, I recently found out online, that fat hunger and protein hunger are 2 different things, depending on what your body needs. Of course there might be severely mal-adapted people where hunger signs may not accurately reflect what they really need, but my guess is they are probably extremely rare.

I'm still convinced carni is the "cleanest" diet out there,

I fully agree, this must the template from which all people with severe health issues must start out. Also to be a really specific it has to be red meat from ruminants . It cannot be pork, fish, chicken. Pork and chicken meat can have huge variations depending on what they are fed.

I just haven't heard about long term effects (generational anecdotes, I mean)

Don't the Masai warriors, Inuit and Sámi ethnic groups count?

Can I ask your age / location / build / how active your lifestyle is? I'm curious if eating once a day on carni works for full time employment in a very cold and cloudy climate :P

Age: 45, male Build: skinny/110lb, 5 ft, 7 in. Location: Toronto, Canada. Lifestyle: not active but not sedentary either. I go for a walk for 15 minutes a day, and I cumulatively probably walk for about half an hour at work everyday, i.e walking around the office talking to people. My job is that of a computer programmer so I'm glued to the screen for 8 to 9 hrs.

Also what were your symptoms of keto flu?

Felt like my world was ending (no , I'm not exaggerating), extreme fatigue at the slightest exertion, feeling crappy and listless. I probably was in bed for 3 days straight, curled up in a fetal position. Things improved significantly in a weeks time. I had calf muscle cramps that took almost a year to resolve but they were manageable.

 

[ExD]

No. Do not over think this. Use taste as a guide, I recently found out online, that fat hunger and protein hunger are 2 different things, depending on what your body needs. Of course there might be severely mal-adapted people where hunger signs may not accurately reflect what they really need, but my guess is they are probably extremely rare.

Can you describe the difference between fat and protein hunger? I remember being practically ravenous at the smell of meat, like almost drooling haha, but now I think on it I'm not sure I've ever craved fat, though I eat a lot of it (just ,made some ghee this afternoon \o/)

I fully agree, this must the template from which all people with severe health issues must start out. Also to be a really specific it has to be red meat from ruminants . It cannot be pork, fish, chicken. Pork and chicken meat can have huge variations depending on what they are fed.

That's interesting. We have good quality beef but I do/did eat a lot of bacon which for some reason I associated with the problems of leg cramps at night while on carni - no idea why. I've stopped eating it for first time in a long time these last few mornings in lieu of scrambly eggs

Don't the Masai warriors, Inuit and Sámi ethnic groups count?

From what I remember they eat whole animals, drink blood, have bone soup etc so I try not to draw too much corollary with a diet that's mostly muscle meat. Offal and bone marrow have huge nutritional value whereas I was mostly relying on steak and eggs

Age: 45, male Build: skinny/110lb, 5 ft, 7 in. Location: Toronto, Canada. Lifestyle: not active but not sedentary either. I go for a walk for 15 minutes a day, and I cumulatively probably walk for about half an hour at work everyday, i.e walking around the office talking to people. My job is that of a computer programmer so I'm glued to the screen for 8 to 9 hrs.

That's reassuring. I'm skinny too and oddly the healthier looking of the two docs on youtube is also slim. The unhealthier one looks abit like a ham, inflamed skin etc but iirc his bloodwork wasn't awful.

Felt like my world was ending (no , I'm not exaggerating), extreme fatigue at the slightest exertion, feeling crappy and listless. I probably was in bed for 3 days straight, curled up in a fetal position. Things improved significantly in a weeks time. I had calf muscle cramps that took almost a year to resolve but they were manageable.

I have had extreme fatigue but it was a result of a 10 day water fast, which was at it's worst around day 7. By day 8 it started getting better and by day 10 I actually felt considerably better - I think that was around the time I had entered full ketosis (again, being skinny I have always been dubious how my body would handle this longterm compared to someone with ample supplies:P)

The calve cramps are what drove me insane. At night I'd be kicking about like a grasshopper trying to get them under control. I can't imagine tolerating that for a year. Did you supplement with magnesium or anything? That was the only thing that helped me.

 

[ExD]

I am reading on reddit that it is actually low potassium causing the cramps, which makes sense because my diet is high in salt and without OJ and fruits there's little room to make up the difference; not something I've ever had to consider as 99% of diets tend to have ample potassium. Also interesting that my body intuitively associated the cramps with bacon / cured meats. The body is awesome lol.

I'll be giving it a shot tonight and dose up on potassium bicarb to see how it goes because my sleep is profound on a carni diet but cramps are truly horrible and make getting back to sleep worse than a nightmare. Am glad it's a common ailment that seems easily fixed.

 

[Dennis]

That's reassuring. I'm skinny too and oddly the healthier looking of the two docs on youtube is also slim. The unhealthier one looks abit like a ham, inflamed skin etc but iirc his bloodwork wasn't awful.

There is something you have to consider here. You cannot compare a carnivore with normal people. There is a selection bias. Many people who go carnivore are people like me ( notice that I'm under weight, a more serious problem than obesity) have had bad health to start with, going carnivore was often a desperate attempt which was in my case. I'm still in worse health than a typical 'normal' person. A fairer comparison would be before and after health of the same person.

 

[Dino D]

I don't know why I am surprised at this point that people still have these stupid myths in their head about meat.

Meat does not putrefy in your intestines. You're mistaking meat with plant fibers which we can not digest that are fermented by bacteria in the gut. Meat does not constipate you, you go less because meat does not have undigestable bulk that plants do.

We evolved on vegetables and fruit? Lol... you are worse than those people that believe the Adam and Eve story and how they both lived off of plants entirely until they sinned.

Yeh pure carnivore is not an optimal diet, an omnivorous one is. But you discount meat by saying its bad for the gut, causes constipation, and putrifies. That putrefying part is hilariously wrong and probably the worst myth of all.

The fact that you even take short stints on carnivore diet for your digestion and you keep propagating these bull**** myths about how meat is bad for digestion? Hello?


If you are going to use this "fad" to clear out your gut you should at least understand these myths you keep spouting are completely false and stop passing on BS to others. Meat does not slow mobility, you go less because you literally have less feces building up in your colon because meat creates less waste. Why would you go if you don't have to? Exactly, no reason.

when ever I trie keto or carnivore i get constipated, and after a few days i go to the toilet and it hurts like giving birth and and I stay 4 one hour in the toilet... the amount of faces is enourmous...
your to certain in your statement, but many get constipated on keto, carnivore and its not because of less fecal...

 

[jet9]

Age: 45, male Build: skinny/110lb, 5 ft, 7 in. Location: Toronto, Canada. Lifestyle: not active but not sedentary either. I go for a walk for 15 minutes a day, and I cumulatively probably walk for about half an hour at work everyday, i.e walking around the office talking to people. My job is that of a computer programmer so I'm glued to the screen for 8 to 9 hrs.

How does carnivore effect your mental abilities / computer programming?

I was on diet very close to carnivore for 2 years (95% of my calories were coming from beef, and i had a bit of sweet potato / potato at night to help me sleep) and i liked calmness and ability to concentrate comparing to ray peat diet. The cons for me physical energy was very low, i was often tired, etc.